How to keep my calories adequate?

[Steve]

I drank an entire bottle. I was out of whiskey. LOL. Oh these stressful responsible adult problems, I wish it was nineteen eighty something again.

EDIT: Note to anybody reading this... don't do that.

Eee gads man! If I drank whiskey during the week, my work week would be much, much shorter than 5 days.

 

[corndogggy]

Eee gads man! If I drank whiskey during the week, my work week would be much, much shorter than 5 days.

Yeah, but it would make you sound really REALLY good on a guitar, at least to yourself. LOL

When I get completely fed up with the world I have this unhealthy habit of getting drunk and playing guitar on my front porch as loud as I can. The neighbors will probably kill me before the whiskey does. Strangely enough, whiskey makes me feel great the next day. I've had 10 shots and felt like a million bucks the next morning, I don't get it. I can't do that with anything else. That wine made me feel like crap today.

 

[Juliette1]

Boys, boys...
Not that I wouldn't enjoy my occasional glass of whisky myself, but 10!!!
Geeezzz. I'd say you should stop counting and start listening your body.. Especially the day after.
But since I don't do hangovers, I wouldn't really know..

Yeah, but it would make you sound really REALLY good on a guitar, at least to yourself. LOL

Take it from me, it wouldn't. And I definitely wouldn't respect you in the morning.

I think this thread has served its purpose.
We can take the weight-training question to my diary, if you have anything to discuss about it, Steve?

 

[Steve]

This is where it gets linguistically tricky. I don't know how to translate all of my weights exercises in English. I'll try (if something seems fishy, it's most likely to be a language mistake):
This is what I've been doing this month (after 4 months of no regular weight training), adding weights as I've been able to:
Leg press 70 kg 3*15
Back bench to the max*3
Abs gym ball to the max*3
Chest fly 4 kg DB 10-15*3
Chin dip assisted -13 10-15*3
Upright row 13 kg BB 15*3
Biceps curl with twist 6 kg DB 12-15*3
Rope pushdown 20 kg 10-15*3
Not very impressive, eh... That has been designed to strengthen the upper body muscles that my work strains the most and which are very 'unbalanced', if you know what I mean. I hold a 1.2 kg object resting mostly on my right hand in front of me in a funny position many hours a day...
I have a meeting with my trainer on next Monday to update&change that a bit. I had a brief discussion with her on Wednesday, and I'm guessing we'll go lower rep, higher weight.

Yea Jul, this definitely needs some work. How many days per week are you doing this? You are doing too much. It isn't balanced. Rep range is okay for now, but you should progress into some heavier stuff (read: lower reps). There is too much isolation work.

We'll keep this in this thread, hope to hear from you soon.

 

[Juliette1]

2-3 times a week, so every second or third day depending on how I feel.
But as I said, I'm having it updated on Monday, so I have only tomorrow left with this set. I'd love to have your detailed opinion on it before the update meeting so that I have more basis for a discussion on how to go on. I just started with this trainer a month ago and this was the first set she did for me. I think she was trying to play it safe, not knowing me at all.
So, what would you suggest?

 

[RhoRho]

Whoa Julie,

Definitely nothing to add as I'm not as experienced as those who have already responded.. I do think that each person needs to do what works for them..you carefully measure your food and exercise, and I don't think that's a bad thing... it's not detriment to your end goals, which you're rapidly working towards..

I'm just curious about whether Steve and corndoggy are brothers, maybe longlost twins... There's hardly ever agreement between them...they seem to love to 'debate' each other (although I'd call it something else)... Give them a topic they're both passionate about and just watch the sparks fly )

Please don't attack me!!

 

[corndogggy]

I'm just curious about whether Steve and corndoggy are brothers, maybe longlost twins... There's hardly ever agreement between them...they seem to love to 'debate' each other (although I'd call it something else)... Give them a topic they're both passionate about and just watch the sparks fly )

LOL! The problem is that even though we're both very outspoken and fitness is a huge part of our lives, on many subjects we're the exact opposite.

In my old age of 31 years, I'm more into endurance stuff, and the stuff I talk about mostly comes from me piddling around and experimenting then paying attention to the results, and it sometimes turns out that the good results I get seem to go completely against all of the typical understanding of the pros. I try to stay as "real world" as possible.

Steve on the other hand doesn't like endurance crap, he's more into weights, and he lives for being able to quote certain studies by memory seems like and knows all the supposedly most correct ways of doing things that all the pros writes about, and tries to think on a higher level than most normal people, which obviously drives him nuts when I bring up stuff that seems to go against the book. So, he'll correct me, I'll take something wrong or something along those lines, and here we go again.

But, the weird part is that it looks worse than it is, it doesn't really bother us that much and actually most of the time it's all in good fun... just every now and then we go a little too far. This thread would be one of those times.

 

[Blancita]

Do they offer the RMR test by you? It tells you exactly how many calories you burn just for basic bodily function, and then it gives you a range of calories burned for living based on that (obviously some days are more energetic than others hence the range). Basically it answers the question you had quite precisely. Here the test was offered by a registered dietician, and so my health insurance covered it for free. I breathed into the machine for 10 minutes and then it created a reading based on my breathing and my stats (age, weight). It was just an interesting thing to find out, back when I was calorie counting (which I'm thinking I may need to start doing again considering my weight is going nowhere ).

 

[Steve]

Crap Julie, I forgot about this. You said this:

This is where it gets linguistically tricky. I don't know how to translate all of my weights exercises in English. I'll try (if something seems fishy, it's most likely to be a language mistake):

Okay, we'll see if I understand everything.

Leg press 70 kg 3*15

I'd rather see you doing squats.

Back bench to the max*3

Hmm, this I am not sure about. Can you explain what you are doing when you execute this exercise? Is it on a machine? Are you pulling weight towards your chest?

Abs gym ball to the max*3

If you are doing enough compound work, I don't really see a need for direct ab work. However, if you are going to include it, I'd rather see you add weight to the crunch (assuming that's what you are doing on the ball), which in turn, would decrease the number of reps you could perform.

Chest fly 4 kg DB 10-15*3

I'd rather see you doing bench press. You might call this chest press.

Chin dip assisted -13 10-15*3

Chin ups or Pull ups are always a good exercise.

Upright row 13 kg BB 15*3

Get rid of this exercise for sure.

Biceps curl with twist 6 kg DB 12-15*3

Ahhh, I'm not really a fan of direct arm work while dieting.

Rope pushdown 20 kg 10-15*3

Same as above.

Not very impressive, eh... That has been designed to strengthen the upper body muscles that my work strains the most and which are very 'unbalanced', if you know what I mean. I hold a 1.2 kg object resting mostly on my right hand in front of me in a funny position many hours a day...

How do you know you have imbalances? Do you have any pain?

This is not a very balanced routine. Any routine should have at least an equal weighting from upper to lower body. I don't see any vertical pressing which isn't really necessary. However, you aren't doing any chest presses, so I would say they should be in there.

You also have too much isolation work in the program and exercise selection isn't the greatest in general.

Also, I'd be interested to see in what context the trainer laid this out. I see you are doing relatively higher reps, which is fine since you are just really getting into structured strength training. However, he/she should have you progressing. This progress should include progressively heavier weights and a reduction in volume as time goes on.

I have a meeting with my trainer on next Monday to update&change that a bit. I had a brief discussion with her on Wednesday, and I'm guessing we'll go lower rep, higher weight.

Did you have the meeting already? What's the deal?

 

[Steve]

LOL! The problem is that even though we're both very outspoken and fitness is a huge part of our lives, on many subjects we're the exact opposite.

In my old age of 31 years, I'm more into endurance stuff, and the stuff I talk about mostly comes from me piddling around and experimenting then paying attention to the results, and it sometimes turns out that the good results I get seem to go completely against all of the typical understanding of the pros. I try to stay as "real world" as possible.

Steve on the other hand doesn't like endurance crap, he's more into weights, and he lives for being able to quote certain studies by memory seems like and knows all the supposedly most correct ways of doing things that all the pros writes about, and tries to think on a higher level than most normal people, which obviously drives him nuts when I bring up stuff that seems to go against the book. So, he'll correct me, I'll take something wrong or something along those lines, and here we go again.

But, the weird part is that it looks worse than it is, it doesn't really bother us that much and actually most of the time it's all in good fun... just every now and then we go a little too far. This thread would be one of those times.

To add to this:

Most of what I recommend to people isn't straight from a book at all, as Corn states. Mind you, I've been enhancing my own physique as well as many who have turned to me for advice for many years now.... a large chunk of my life.

I haven't always done things optimally. I haven't always given people the greatest advice. Not on purpose, but one's advice is limited to their current knowledge and experience.

As time went on, I learned what EVERY human body responds to optimally, outside the realm of disease and injury. This isn't from a book. It's from hardcore, hands on, real world experience and results.

Couple this fact with the fact that learning and reading is my other passion. I've spent a great deal of time learning this stuff and it just so happens that much of what we know about the human body and how it adapts backs up the training philosophies I recommend.

Of course what's optimal isn't always going to fit into one's lifestyle and/or likes.... so you have to adapt.

What I do for the most part on this forum is, I give you the straight forward answer as to what's optimal.

If you can't match this to yourself, if you come to me for help, I'll always try and adapt my advice to meet your needs. There is certainly more than one way to skin a cat when it comes to physique-enhancement.

 

[Juliette1]

Crap Julie, I forgot about this.

No problem. I would have come for you in just a moment.
I had my meeting and we redid some of the program, but probably still not to your satisfaction. You're kinda hard to please...
The new updated version below each of your comments.

Quote:
Leg press 70 kg 3*15

I'd rather see you doing squats.

This will be 3*10-12, going up to 80 when possible.
Me too, but a) this is relatively new to me and leg press is a bit less prone to injury, which at the moment is very out of question for me (upcoming work stuff) and b) right now the other one of the two weight areas at the gym is under construction, so practically no equipment available for the next 3 weeks. We'll go for the squats on next update, we talked about it already.


Quote:
Back bench to the max*3

Hmm, this I am not sure about. Can you explain what you are doing when you execute this exercise? Is it on a machine? Are you pulling weight towards your chest?

This stays the same in the new program.
Nope. Something not far from this, I have absolutely no idea what it's called in any language, where you go face down, bend your head near the floor your back straight and then roll your back back up to line with your lower body.



Quote:
Abs gym ball to the max*3

If you are doing enough compound work, I don't really see a need for direct ab work. However, if you are going to include it, I'd rather see you add weight to the crunch (assuming that's what you are doing on the ball), which in turn, would decrease the number of reps you could perform.

This also stays the same.
I crunch&exhale one, hold two, back&inhale one. Don't you think the natural weights on my chest (2*4 pounds maybe, never had them weighed..) are enough? This or something similar I would do anyway to have my abs in good condition for playing.


Quote:
Chest fly 4 kg DB 10-15*3

I'd rather see you doing bench press. You might call this chest press.

Pec deck 15 kg 10-12*3
A bit like pushups but up (on your back) or sideways (sitting)? We changed this for a machine for the time being, and what I could find googling around, chest press is not far.. Again, this is a temporary arrangement because of the construction work. I'll suggest bench press (if this is with a bar, on my back?) for next update?


Quote:
Chin dip assisted -13 10-15*3

Chin ups or Pull ups are always a good exercise.

Same -13 going to -12 soon, 10-12*3
Yup. I agree fully. I'm also very proud of doing these, even when assisted by giant amount of weight. For so long I thought I never could do this..


Quote:
Upright row 13 kg BB 15*3

Get rid of this exercise for sure.

And we did. But there is something for the shoulders there, with DB, so I can't compensate with the stronger hand. I lift the DB up so that both shoulder, elbow and weight are at the same level on my side, with elbow slightly bent. 4 kg DB 12*3


Quote:
Biceps curl with twist 6 kg DB 12-15*3

Ahhh, I'm not really a fan of direct arm work while dieting.

Biceps curl with incline, no twist 5 kg DB 10-12*2-3
I'm sure you would call this more rehabilitation to my poor arms than weight training. Read explanation below..


Quote:
Rope pushdown 20 kg 10-15*3

Same as above.

Rope/bar pushdown 20 kg 10-12*2-3
Same as above.

How do you know you have imbalances? Do you have any pain?

For the last 20 years I've been holding an object of almost 3 pounds in front of me anything from two to eight hours a day, every day, not counting the few short holidays I've been able to have, maybe 3 months in total.. The weight of the instrument is totally on my right thumb and so on my right wrist/arm/shoulder. Left had just carries itself, but is held higher up on than the right one. I found this adorable picture of a little boy to give you an example. Adults keep the instrument a bit higher, approx. 45 degree angle.
So you bet I'm in pain. Just NOT from weight training. Part of the point here is to keep my upper body and my arms moving, instead of all the static work I do all the time. And some of the muscles in my arms are totally untrained where as others are chronically overtrained.

This is not a very balanced routine. Any routine should have at least an equal weighting from upper to lower body. I don't see any vertical pressing which isn't really necessary. However, you aren't doing any chest presses, so I would say they should be in there.

That can easily be added. Do you still think it's good, after seeing what I do for living? And which exercise specifically would you recommend?

You also have too much isolation work in the program and exercise selection isn't the greatest in general.

So you are welcome to offer an alternative for this. I'll try it best I can.

Also, I'd be interested to see in what context the trainer laid this out. I see you are doing relatively higher reps, which is fine since you are just really getting into structured strength training. However, he/she should have you progressing. This progress should include progressively heavier weights and a reduction in volume as time goes on.

Some progress is already visible in the updated version. She also adviced me to go to 12 reps max. If I can do more, I should up the weights.
What do you mean by "in what context the trainer laid this out"? Say it in other words, please..

I was hoping to get some feedback from you already before my update meeting, but I know I can't have it all. Any advice is still very much appreciated.
Julie

 

[Steve]

Why do you feel you need a trainer?

He barely changed anything. Change isn't necessary from week to week or even month to month for some.... however, many aspects of this program are ineffective. And you can print this out and hand it to him if you'd like. Hell, have him join the forum.

I'd be glad to "chat" with him.

This will be 3*10-12, going up to 80 when possible.
Me too, but a) this is relatively new to me and leg press is a bit less prone to injury, which at the moment is very out of question for me (upcoming work stuff) and b) right now the other one of the two weight areas at the gym is under construction, so practically no equipment available for the next 3 weeks. We'll go for the squats on next update, we talked about it already.

Okay, so squats will come in time. I can live with that.

And he is having you do less reps in the leg press now. Logically, that should mean heavier weights, right?

Problem number 1:

This is your ONLY leg exercise. It would be consdired quad dominant to most, even though your posterior chain (read: butt and hamstrings) come into play too. I'd like to see some direct posterior chain stuff added into the mix.

Think romanian deadlifts, leg curls (machine), glute ham raises, etc.

This stays the same in the new program.
Nope. Something not far from this, I have absolutely no idea what it's called in any language, where you go face down, bend your head near the floor your back straight and then roll your back back up to line with your lower body.

Quote:
Abs gym ball to the max*3

This also stays the same.
I crunch&exhale one, hold two, back&inhale one. Don't you think the natural weights on my chest (2*4 pounds maybe, never had them weighed..) are enough? This or something similar I would do anyway to have my abs in good condition for playing.

Do you need hand weighing them?

Okay, that was bad. My apologies.

Tell me what your "max" is in this exercise in terms of number of reps per set. I really don't have a problem with these being in the program. If you are going to do abs directly a few times per week, I'd rather see you do different exercises each day of the week.

Ask your trainer to add Saxon Side Bends into the mix. He probably won't even know what they are though.

Quote:
Chest fly 4 kg DB 10-15*3

Pec deck 15 kg 10-12*3
A bit like pushups but up (on your back) or sideways (sitting)? We changed this for a machine for the time being, and what I could find googling around, chest press is not far.. Again, this is a temporary arrangement because of the construction work. I'll suggest bench press (if this is with a bar, on my back?) for next update?

Problem #3

Flies are an isolation movement for chest.

Isolation movements are NOT the best way to go about building/maintaining muscle. Heavy/compound work is what best accomplishes this. And bench press is the king with regards to chest.

And if you are benching, you should be rowing for back too. Which, again, you are missing any form of back work besides your hyperextensions, which is doing nothing for your upper back muscles and lats.

Quote:
Chin dip assisted -13 10-15*3

Same -13 going to -12 soon, 10-12*3
Yup. I agree fully. I'm also very proud of doing these, even when assisted by giant amount of weight. For so long I thought I never could do this..

Again, he reduced the rep range which means you should be using less weight for assistance, right?

It's okay that these remained in the program.

Quote:
Upright row 13 kg BB 15*3

And we did. But there is something for the shoulders there, with DB, so I can't compensate with the stronger hand. I lift the DB up so that both shoulder, elbow and weight are at the same level on my side, with elbow slightly bent. 4 kg DB 12*3

I'm glad he got rid of the upright rows. But now he has you doing a shoulder isolation exercise called Dumbbell Lateral Raises.

Are they bad? Not necessarily.

Are they your best bet for your goals? No. You want to get the most bang for your buck, and as I said above, you are going to get this from big, compound lifts.

Instead of DB Lateral Raises, he should have you doing something like DB Overhead Presses or something of this nature.

I don't know his exact plan for you, but from what I can see right now, the plan is not optimal. Unless he plans on doing things a lot different in the future, I don't get where he is going with this. And even if he is planning on switching it up in the future, why does it have to be so sub-optimal now?

Quote:
Biceps curl with twist 6 kg DB 12-15*3

Biceps curl with incline, no twist 5 kg DB 10-12*2-3
I'm sure you would call this more rehabilitation to my poor arms than weight training. Read explanation below..

How does doing the curls help with your pathological problems from playing the instrument?

For the last 20 years I've been holding an object of almost 3 pounds in front of me anything from two to eight hours a day, every day, not counting the few short holidays I've been able to have, maybe 3 months in total.. The weight of the instrument is totally on my right thumb and so on my right wrist/arm/shoulder. Left had just carries itself, but is held higher up on than the right one. I found this adorable picture of a little boy to give you an example. Adults keep the instrument a bit higher, approx. 45 degree angle.
So you bet I'm in pain. Just NOT from weight training. Part of the point here is to keep my upper body and my arms moving, instead of all the static work I do all the time. And some of the muscles in my arms are totally untrained where as others are chronically overtrained.

Chronic over-use injuries are usually better treated with forms of soft tissue work and mobility drills than any sort of weight training. I am not a therapists, and obviously your trainer isn't either.

Some progress is already visible in the updated version. She also adviced me to go to 12 reps max. If I can do more, I should up the weights.
What do you mean by "in what context the trainer laid this out"? Say it in other words, please..

Correction: Where ever I typed "he" above, change to a "she."

With any program, there needs to be some sort of progression. In layman's terms, you start out light. As weeks progress, you also progress the intensity by upping the amount of weight lifted. Eventually you reach a point of diminishing returns. With me, even before this point, I usually cut it off and take a week off or really lighten the loads lifted.

Gives your body a chance to "re-group."

Maybe your trainer has a "big picture" type plan in mind for you that I'm missing.

 

[Juliette1]

Why do you feel you need a trainer?

I need somebody to show and teach me everything I do at the gym. It's not really the same seeing it on video or reading it. I need somebody to tell me if I'm doing it right or not in the beginning.

And he is having you do less reps in the leg press now. Logically, that should mean heavier weights, right?

She changed the position of my feet to a different one, which was heavier, and I just got up to 70 anyway, was seriously struggling with it as it is.

Think romanian deadlifts, leg curls (machine), glute ham raises, etc.

I know some of these from last autumn gym times, so no problem there, I can add them to the mix to alternate..

Do you need hand weighing them?

Okay, that was bad. My apologies.

That was only to be expected. Been there, heard that.. Try again?

Tell me what your "max" is in this exercise in terms of number of reps per set. I really don't have a problem with these being in the program. If you are going to do abs directly a few times per week, I'd rather see you do different exercises each day of the week.

Back: 15-17 for the first set, 12-15 second, 10-12 third. It's just as heavy as I want to make it, depending on how much I round my back coming up.
Abs: 15-20 each set, one set twisting

Ask your trainer to add Saxon Side Bends into the mix. He probably won't even know what they are though.

Well, fortunately there's always the internet. I just don't want to depend fully on virtual world on my very real efforts...

Problem #3

Flies are an isolation movement for chest.

Isolation movements are NOT the best way to go about building/maintaining muscle. Heavy/compound work is what best accomplishes this. And bench press is the king with regards to chest.

And if you are benching, you should be rowing for back too. Which, again, you are missing any form of back work besides your hyperextensions, which is doing nothing for your upper back muscles and lats.

I hear you on this. I had both chest press and row in my program in the autumn. So those also I can do and found useful then.

Again, he reduced the rep range which means you should be using less weight for assistance, right?

Again, I just go to assistance -13 but since I can do 12 reps on this, I should go to -12 also according to her advice.

I'm glad he got rid of the upright rows. But now he has you doing a shoulder isolation exercise called Dumbbell Lateral Raises.

Are they bad? Not necessarily.

Are they your best bet for your goals? No. You want to get the most bang for your buck, and as I said above, you are going to get this from big, compound lifts.

Instead of DB Lateral Raises, he should have you doing something like DB Overhead Presses or something of this nature.

I know what that is. I think I'm going to keep the lateral raises for some time at least, since they target one of my biggest problem areas. Overhead presses I can keep in mind for later.

I don't know his exact plan for you, but from what I can see right now, the plan is not optimal. Unless he plans on doing things a lot different in the future, I don't get where he is going with this. And even if he is planning on switching it up in the future, why does it have to be so sub-optimal now?

I have no answer to that. The difference I know there is between you and her is that she's seen me, my structure and how I'm able to do things. Some of the things you disagree on might come from that? Otherwise, I can not be a judge of how optimal what is, at the moment I can only tell if I can or cannot do something, which, I know, is another thing altogether.

How does doing the curls help with your pathological problems from playing the instrument?

There is a considerable difference with my right and left hand and shoulders. The idea is to get the muscles in a bit better balance by actually using the left hand.

Chronic over-use injuries are usually better treated with forms of soft tissue work and mobility drills than any sort of weight training. I am not a therapists, and obviously your trainer isn't either.

No, but the physical therapists treating musicians (me too, in the past) recommend weight training for the kind of problems we get, since they come more from static than repetitive strain.

With any program, there needs to be some sort of progression. In layman's terms, you start out light. As weeks progress, you also progress the intensity by upping the amount of weight lifted. Eventually you reach a point of diminishing returns. With me, even before this point, I usually cut it off and take a week off or really lighten the loads lifted.

Gives your body a chance to "re-group."

Maybe your trainer has a "big picture" type plan in mind for you that I'm missing.

I was able to up the weights a bit more than expected during the first four weeks. I am trying to do the same with the next four.
I am but a beginner in this, so again, I can't comment on the big picture. I take this seriously, but maybe the point of my seriousness is more on getting used to weight training in general and doing only things I'm comfortable with (I've either been taught in person how to do something or I've some other way gained the confidence that I'm doing it right). Being optimal comes still second in my list of priorities. It will, no doubt, become the first priority at some point, that's how I am, but right now I'm happy doing at least something right. Too many times in my life I've tried to be optimal first, and ended up not doing it at all. Not this time.
I'm listening, please don't feel that I wouldn't appreciate everything you say, even if I in some things choose differently for the time being.
Julie

 

[Steve]

I need somebody to show and teach me everything I do at the gym. It's not really the same seeing it on video or reading it. I need somebody to tell me if I'm doing it right or not in the beginning.

And what if that trainer is not showing you the right stuff?

Habits are hard to break once learned.

She changed the position of my feet to a different one, which was heavier, and I just got up to 70 anyway, was seriously struggling with it as it is.

WHENEVER rep range is dropped, weight should increase. For example, if you were doing 70 using 15 reps and you all of sudden started doing 10 reps, still doing 70, you are providing less stress to your body.

Less stress does not translate into improvement.

Back: 15-17 for the first set, 12-15 second, 10-12 third. It's just as heavy as I want to make it, depending on how much I round my back coming up.
Abs: 15-20 each set, one set twisting

With the hyperextensions, you have to really watch form. Hopefully your trainer knows what she's talking about. Don't be over extending your back and don't do any excessive rounding.

With both sets of exercises, I really don't see a need to go that high in reps. I'd rather see you add weight to each and keep them to a max of 12 reps and progress in weight from week to week.

Well, fortunately there's always the internet. I just don't want to depend fully on virtual world on my very real efforts...

Haha, thankfully not everyone shares this opinion.

Eventually I will get back into online training where people rely solely on the web for their training/dietary advice.

The web is NOT a virtual world. In this context, it's simply a means of communication with VERY real people/trainers.

I hear you on this. I had both chest press and row in my program in the autumn. So those also I can do and found useful then.

Good.

Again, I just go to assistance -13 but since I can do 12 reps on this, I should go to -12 also according to her advice.

If you look at my "workout" I outlined in the weight loss through exercise section of the site, you'll see as the weeks progress, reps performed reduce.

However, there should be a simultaneous increase in weight lifted.

Your trainer seems to miss this very important point.

I know what that is. I think I'm going to keep the lateral raises for some time at least, since they target one of my biggest problem areas. Overhead presses I can keep in mind for later.

What area might that be? Your anterior and medial deltoid? That's a strange problem area to have.

Remember, lifting weights does nothing about targeting problem areas..... by problem area, I assume you mean fat.

I have no answer to that. The difference I know there is between you and her is that she's seen me, my structure and how I'm able to do things. Some of the things you disagree on might come from that? Otherwise, I can not be a judge of how optimal what is, at the moment I can only tell if I can or cannot do something, which, I know, is another thing altogether.

No comment.

I was able to up the weights a bit more than expected during the first four weeks. I am trying to do the same with the next four.
I am but a beginner in this, so again, I can't comment on the big picture. I take this seriously, but maybe the point of my seriousness is more on getting used to weight training in general and doing only things I'm comfortable with (I've either been taught in person how to do something or I've some other way gained the confidence that I'm doing it right). Being optimal comes still second in my list of priorities. It will, no doubt, become the first priority at some point, that's how I am, but right now I'm happy doing at least something right. Too many times in my life I've tried to be optimal first, and ended up not doing it at all. Not this time.

Hmm, Julie, really, this is meant as no disrespect..... if you're happy with your trainer.... go with her information.

At this point from what I can see, it's not a matter of doing things optimally or not. It's more a matter of doing things correctly or not.

Bottom line is, if she is giving you results, who am I to say anything?

You seem to really hold onto her advice, which is great. Most trainers can only hope for that from their clients.

 

[corndogggy]

I need somebody to show and teach me everything I do at the gym. It's not really the same seeing it on video or reading it. I need somebody to tell me if I'm doing it right or not in the beginning.

And what if that trainer is not showing you the right stuff?

Habits are hard to break once learned.

Juliette - just thought I'd say that I agree and can totally relate. I mean, in less than 2 weeks I'm supposed to be doing my first triathlon where I actually have to swim. Long time swimmers act like freestyle is easy, but it has been a total PITA. I have ordered a video, talked to people I know who compete, talked to lifeguards, watched videos on youtube, read triathlon magazines and books, experimented... and I'm still just longing for a pro to work with me one on one and tell me what I'm doing wrong. I'm relying on the wrong muscle groups, I'm not hydrodynamic, and I'm coming out of the water alot more tired than I ought to be, but I don't know what to do about it. Even if another instructor thought that another's methods and advice wasn't optimal, I really don't care, because the problem is that no two people swim alike anyway, I just want to be faster and better than I am now. I'm just thinking that there's alot of parallels between what I'm going through and what you are, so don't feel like a weirdo for feeling that way. Sometimes there is just no substitute for one-on-one coaching IN PERSON, especially when you're first starting out and you're not confident. Even if you were... it's kinda like the new Tom Petty song... "You're confident, but you're not sure."

Anyway, if this was totally wrong and you really can pick up on perfect form just off of online stuff, my freestyle swimming form wouldn't look like I'm trying to do an impression of a drowning cat.

 

[Steve]

Nothing compares to one-on-one individualized attention. Ever.

You receive what you pay for.

Go to a good trainer in person. You will pay 50+ bucks per hour.

Go to a good trainer on the web. You will pay 150+ bucks per month.

Different sources for different people.

I'm a fast learner. I can pick up on not only the basics, but also the subtleties, of pretty much anything I set my mind to and invest the time into researching.

Some people do well with self-help type stuff. Others, not so much.

It's on you to figure out what you need to succeed.

All of this banter does nothing with regard to the fact that I don't feel her trainer is "in the know." You can learn piss-poor technique/philosophy from anyone calling him/herself a teacher, which can leave you worse off had you gone with a "hands off" teacher.

The bottom line is: A good teacher is a good teacher. No matter how you receive his/her information. Having the opportunity to work one-on-one with someone always takes the cake but certainly is not a necessity.

Even when I trained on-line. I had clients who said they couldn't "get the squat" even after thorough explanation, instruction, and them watching a video. In that case, I would have them videotape themselves squatting and correct from there.

 

[Juliette1]

And what if that trainer is not showing you the right stuff?

Habits are hard to break once learned.

I wouldn't know that, would I? And there I am again, deciding who to believe more, her, you or maybe my own feeling. Tough decision.

WHENEVER rep range is dropped, weight should increase. For example, if you were doing 70 using 15 reps and you all of sudden started doing 10 reps, still doing 70, you are providing less stress to your body.

Less stress does not translate into improvement.

True. Count in the change in the technique and it's not so straight forward, at least for the time I'm learning the new form. Whenever I CAN up the weights I will, no question about it.

With the hyperextensions, you have to really watch form. Hopefully your trainer knows what she's talking about. Don't be over extending your back and don't do any excessive rounding.

With both sets of exercises, I really don't see a need to go that high in reps. I'd rather see you add weight to each and keep them to a max of 12 reps and progress in weight from week to week.

I'm keeping good form, I've been well taught in those exercises. I'll try adding some weight.

What area might that be? Your anterior and medial deltoid? That's a strange problem area to have.

Remember, lifting weights does nothing about targeting problem areas..... by problem area, I assume you mean fat.

That clarifies it a bit. No, I don't meat fat. I'm very aware of the fact that there is no "training the fat away" in a particular spot. Why would you think my deltoids have excess fat anyway? By problem area I mean the results of year long static strain on the deltoids. This exercise provides movement where there normally isn't any.

Hmm, Julie, really, this is meant as no disrespect..... if you're happy with your trainer.... go with her information.

At this point from what I can see, it's not a matter of doing things optimally or not. It's more a matter of doing things correctly or not.

Bottom line is, if she is giving you results, who am I to say anything?

You seem to really hold onto her advice, which is great. Most trainers can only hope for that from their clients.

So far, and it isn't very far yet, I'm basically happy with her. I'm going to add/substitute/alternate some of your suggestions to what she did for me and I'm certainly grateful for all the info you've provided me with, both in this thread and elsewhere in this forum. It definitely has an effect on what I ask from her in the future. So a big thank you to you for that!
This is a point in my life where I'm just forming an idea of the whole weight training thing. I read what you write here, both in this thread and elsewhere in the forum. I find your posts very interesting and helpful. I read other things, whatever interesting I find, not much time to look for it though.
Later I hope to have some opinions of my own, based on more than my own feeling of things. Not being there yet leaves me with a strange basis for any conversation, let alone the decisions I need to make on how I do things. Going with my gut feeling, bit by bit also the results or lack thereof are my guidelines. No other choice since, like you've shown me, I can actually trust nobody.
Julie

 

[Steve]

I wouldn't know that, would I? And there I am again, deciding who to believe more, her, you or maybe my own feeling. Tough decision.

The thought of me being compared to her isn't going to help you. You can believe me or not, it's really no skin off my back. If she proves her efficacy to you in terms of real world results, so be it.

If not, time to leave.

All I've been saying is her style seems a bit off. Take that for what it's worth. It's just an opinion of mine.

True. Count in the change in the technique and it's not so straight forward, at least for the time I'm learning the new form. Whenever I CAN up the weights I will, no question about it.

Fair enough.

That clarifies it a bit. No, I don't meat fat. I'm very aware of the fact that there is no "training the fat away" in a particular spot. Why would you think my deltoids have excess fat anyway? By problem area I mean the results of year long static strain on the deltoids. This exercise provides movement where there normally isn't any.

Usually when someone, especially a woman, says "problem areas" it means stubborn fat areas.... hence my response. I did not realize you were speaking of pathological/over-use problems of the deltoid muscles.

And FYI, overhead pressing would still be more effective for your total goals than lateral raises.

So far, and it isn't very far yet, I'm basically happy with her. I'm going to add/substitute/alternate some of your suggestions to what she did for me and I'm certainly grateful for all the info you've provided me with, both in this thread and elsewhere in this forum. It definitely has an effect on what I ask from her in the future. So a big thank you to you for that!

My pleasure really. And I apologize for downing your trainer. It sounds like you like her. I just have a real issue with so-called "professionals" in this industry and their instruction.

Show me a good trainer and I will give him/her all the respect in the world. Hell, I'll probably take their information from you so I can refer people I communicate with in your area to them.

Show me a better trainer than me and I will shutup and learn.

Show me a sub-par trainer giving poor instruction and you are going to hear an ear full from me. I'm passionate about helping people. Unfortunately, most of the trainers I see cause harm while they cause good. And it's not needed.

This is a point in my life where I'm just forming an idea of the whole weight training thing. I read what you write here, both in this thread and elsewhere in the forum. I find your posts very interesting and helpful. I read other things, whatever interesting I find, not much time to look for it though.
Later I hope to have some opinions of my own, based on more than my own feeling of things. Not being there yet leaves me with a strange basis for any conversation, let alone the decisions I need to make on how I do things. Going with my gut feeling, bit by bit also the results or lack thereof are my guidelines. No other choice since, like you've shown me, I can actually trust nobody.

Well I don't think anyone expects you to become an expert in exercise science. I'm just saying, make sure you put your best interest in front of anything else.

 

[Juliette1]

My pleasure really. And I apologize for downing your trainer. It sounds like you like her. I just have a real issue with so-called "professionals" in this industry and their instruction.

I know you always mean only well and, in this case, my best. I'll keep you posted on any development, one way or the other.

Well I don't think anyone expects you to become an expert in exercise science. I'm just saying, make sure you put your best interest in front of anything else.

I will. Thanks for the time and effort you've put into this and I will come to you again, whenever I need a second opinion. Or third.

Julie