God

I dont think those examples helped at all.

I can and do respect others beliefs, not all. But as i mentioned before, religion isnt a wholeheartly peacefull belief, I discussed a bit before about the problems of religion and would happily explain more if needed. I personally beleive religion is a thousand years pased its use by date and has no need in modern society that we live in today.
 
Derwyddon said:
It's obvious, to me at least, that matt had an agenda bringing this up in the first place. So I wont be reading the rest of this thread.
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wow! very good point!

huh!

wow
 
I personally agree with matt182 and lei. And, it seems that both sides of the argument have an agenda if one side does.

I dunno...what's the big deal? Why can't people discuss religion or god and get a little riled up about it? It's just like any other interesting topic out there and it's better to have discussions than to live life without hearing the other side (throughout our lives). We can always continue to learn from others as long as we are open to it.

And Evo, I suspect the reason that matt182 is responding to you (and Karky) more than some others is that, despite your opposing beliefs, you are actually saying things that facilitate discussion - I'd take it as a compliment! ;)
 
spicypumpkin said:
Here's my stance.

We can't prove that there is a god, and we can't prove that there isn't one.

I made the conscious to be non religious in the traditional sense. I do not worship a "higher being" but I do think that there is a lot about life and this world that we are incapable of understanding. Maybe I'm just spiritual, but not religious.
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Correct.

Because a belief in God is based on faith - not proof.
 
Wrangell said:
Correct.

Because a belief in God is based on faith - not proof.
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I'm not saying it's wrong to believe there is one, I'm just saying that it cannot be based on proof. That's fine for some people, because they have faith.

I personally have faith in myself and the others around me, whatever that means.
 
evolution said:
Morals are taught by parents which are passed down by society. This society is predominately Christian.

I was watching Discovery and a few other shows which showed other socities that held a 'dog eat dog' attitude. The norm was murder, rape, etc...this was taught by society as acceptable. Soooo...this was passed down from society to parent to child.
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I don't think this is true. Like I said, there are laws that seem to govern our lives, regardless of religion. The societies that are ruled by chaos aren't very successful, are they?
 
LeiYunFat said:
I don't think this is true. Like I said, there are laws that seem to govern our lives, regardless of religion. The societies that are ruled by chaos aren't very successful, are they?
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I think human kind has an innate knowledge of what is right and what is wrong and what needs to happen in order for society to work. Of course, some people do not have a very strong concept of what is right and wrong. I don't think all morals are taught by parents, I think they are innate. Call them instinct if you will. This is why the major religions have very similar guidelines.

I believe religion is just a code of conduct for society. Leaders got their people to buy into them because of the mystical "god" idea. If you think about it, it's a pretty good way to bring order to society. But think about it, the bible was written by people and it's for people. It's just a rulebook on how to function in society and it's based on a group of people's opinions from thousands of years ago.
 
I agree that The Bible was served and serves for a large part, a huge book of rules, but I don't think it's limited to that.

I don't think that morals are innate. If you had someone living on a deserted island since birth, he probably wouldn't be very moral. Instead, a lot of morals are learned through social interaction. If you know how much it sucks to have some of your **** stolen, why would you do it to someone else? Stuff like that. I think moral action trancends religion, but the fact that a lot of religions put the same morals down on writing was huge. It serves as a stepping stone to deeper meanings rather than "If you steal you will get your hands chopped off" or whatever.

As a kid, I lied, cheated, and stole quite a bit. It wasn't until I became afraid of the consequences that I stopped or slowed down. And that's how it is with a lot of people. Why do you think there is so much looting that goes on when chaotic things happen? A lot of people fool themselves thinking they are moral when in fact they are just afraid of the consequences, and don't want to admit they are being controlled by "the man and his rules"...Even now, I am tempted to take advantage of the system whenever I see an opprotunity. I'll bet underneath the fear, you are too.

And on the topic of morals...I don't actually know if action based on morality exists. Why? Because you can't do something while expecting a reward and still be moral. Even if in the tiniest level, you expect a reward, it cannot be moral. If you go on a mission to Africa and expect some sort of reward for helping people even in the smallest amount, I do not that that is moral action. Sure, it doesn't change the fact that you did good in the world...but since you did it with the expectation of maybe some trade off...that isn't moral.
 
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Karky said:
if you want to believe in the tooth fairy, that's fine. However, there is more anecdotal evidence for God than the tooth fery. Also, doesn't the tooth feiry myth say that the tooth feiry will exchange all teeth for money? Just put a tooth under your pillow, sit there all night and if there isn't money there the next morning, then the tooth feiry doesn't exist :p
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well peoples definintion of "anecdotal evidence" varies.
 
LeiYunFat said:
I agree that The Bible was served and serves for a large part, a huge book of rules, but I don't think it's limited to that.

I don't think that morals are innate. If you had someone living on a deserted island since birth, he probably wouldn't be very moral. Instead, a lot of morals are learned through social interaction. If you know how much it sucks to have some of your **** stolen, why would you do it to someone else? Stuff like that. I think moral action trancends religion, but the fact that a lot of religions put the same morals down on writing was huge. It serves as a stepping stone to deeper meanings rather than "If you steal you will get your hands chopped off" or whatever.
QUOTE]

dude practically all religion have some hilariously ironic immorality in their past

catholics and the inquisition etc...

i think its good that religion inspired goodness in many people but the bad outways the good along with the fact that people aren't being moral because its the right thing to do but because they dont want to goto hell.
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Like Evo said, religion doesn't kill people, people kill people and look for an excuse. The Spanish Inquisition wa borne of fear and the need for people to control others...If anything the social heirarchy was the primary catalyst for the cause and the reason it went on so long.

I do not think the bad outweighs the good at all. Religion was the cause of so many things that our society takes for granted, like printing, a lot of philosophies and ideas that we base our existance on...I do have problems with organized religion, though. Problems will continue to stem from organized religion, but the root of it all, the spirituality and the benefits it can give to people's lives are imeasureable.
 
LeiYunFat said:
Like Evo said, religion doesn't kill people, people kill people and look for an excuse. The Spanish Inquisition wa borne of fear and the need for people to control others...If anything the social heirarchy was the primary catalyst for the cause and the reason it went on so long.

I do not think the bad outweighs the good at all. Religion was the cause of so many things that our society takes for granted, like printing, a lot of philosophies and ideas that we base our existance on...I do have problems with organized religion, though. Problems will continue to stem from organized religion, but the root of it all, the spirituality and the benefits it can give to people's lives are imeasureable.
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well, I believe that religion inspires/ed the killing of the majority of death in the history of the world.

And your giving religion way to much credit... I know that religion hasn't given me anything at all.
 
People can be inspired to do a lot of things. If I look out my window and see a beautiful landscape, which inspires me to write the greatest song ever made...the landscape doesn't get the credit. The song is still authored by me.

How am I giving it too much credit? Do you doubt my examples? Martin Luther made the 95 Thesis and posted it on a church door...something that was revolutionary in both thought and process...Religion was the catalyst if not more. Often, geniuses of our time were educated based only on theology, where they learned to read and write. They would go on later to do things like...become Sir Issac Newton. Religion was the reason these people were sat down and made to read and write.

Sure religion has inspired people to do bad. It has inpired people to do good. But it has inspired people.

I would expect that religion has given you nothing, since you obviously don't follow one...Religion is nothing more than rules, traditions, or dogma that is attached to spirituality. Having no ties to a religion is one thing...having no spirituality is quite another
 
LeiYunFat said:
Like Evo said, religion doesn't kill people, people kill people and look for an excuse. The Spanish Inquisition wa borne of fear and the need for people to control others...If anything the social heirarchy was the primary catalyst for the cause and the reason it went on so long.

I do not think the bad outweighs the good at all. Religion was the cause of so many things that our society takes for granted, like printing, a lot of philosophies and ideas that we base our existance on...I do have problems with organized religion, though. Problems will continue to stem from organized religion, but the root of it all, the spirituality and the benefits it can give to people's lives are imeasureable.
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I couldnt disagree more, firstly:

1) Religion has and does kill people. You said it right, people look for an excuse whether intentionally or not. To say one has a magical afterlife awaiting them and unambiguous incitements to kill infidelsis vastly more dangerous than a belief that only one life exists. This strips someone of their fear, incorporating delusional thoughts and ideas.

2) Again religion owes it to science not the other way around. The bacteria theory has helped enourmously, instead of beleiveing it was the devil or the like. There has been so much progress which has helped mankind physically but also inherit a greater understanding - nothing that relgion can claim. Considering thousands were excuted based on there true assumptions about the world which was in conflict with the bible is pretty sad.
 
I believe that when you die, you are ended. Terminated. No longer alive and your thoughts are gone. Nothing left. And I do not believe in god. I think it is a good thing to have though, it keeps civilness throughout the country. It gives hope when there is no hope. But is religion for me? No, I can find hope elsewhere. Just my thoughts. :)
 
matt182 said:
I couldnt disagree more, firstly:

1) Religion has and does kill people. You said it right, people look for an excuse whether intentionally or not. To say one has a magical afterlife awaiting them and unambiguous incitements to kill infidelsis vastly more dangerous than a belief that only one life exists. This strips someone of their fear, incorporating delusional thoughts and ideas.
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Religion itself does nothing. It takes people to make anything happen. By placing blame on something (religion in this instance) we take blame away from the individual whom has created X act. The Japanese had their kamikazes. This had nothing to do with religion; it boiled down to nationalism or putting something that they felt was greater than they in front of them. People commit acts of violence for various reasons-alcohol, country, God, meth, etc. So do we blame those killing the infidels on religion or the leaders who have brain washed them? Again, let's not take blame away from the people.

2) Again religion owes it to science not the other way around. The bacteria theory has helped enourmously, instead of beleiveing it was the devil or the like. There has been so much progress which has helped mankind physically but also inherit a greater understanding - nothing that relgion can claim. Considering thousands were excuted based on there true assumptions about the world which was in conflict with the bible is pretty sad.
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Hmmmm...doctors using leeches anyone? Perhaps some electro shock therapy? Science and medicine has killed plenty of people in its journey for improvements. I don't get why we have to have a science vs religion or science only or religion only stance. Why does everything have to be in absolutes? If one is going to kill themself or is hooked on drugs or whatnot and they find God or spirituality or Jesus or Allah or etc and clean up their life, can we conclude that religion has provided no basis for positivity? Did science lead Ghandi to bring peace? Did science move Mother Teresa to help thousands and more?

And how many thousands were killed due to deplorable conditions when the Japanese and those of Asian descent were rounded up and housed in concentration camps in the US? How about the treatment of Native Americans? These had nothing to do with religion, yet a lot of lives were extinguished. Religion is not the finger to point at as some evil that snuffs out these tiny innocent lives. Place blame where blame is due-the people.
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mreik said:
Everyone should worship the Fonz..
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:yelrotflmao:

By the way, EVO, that was one HELL of a post. +rep.
 
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