God

[matt182]

God and such; theres so many questions we can never answer (maybe we could but I'm sure some country in a few hundread years will nuke the entire planet...) Like what caused life? What causes even "something" to exist? Why couldn't there just be absoletely nothing... Thats why I believe in God because I think he started all this weather it was the "big bang" or not.

I don't go to church though; I just view God as a symbol for a good way to act and perceive life.

Sounds like your contraidictoring yourself. You beleive in A god that created us, yet this god is a symbol confusing.

Just because these questions are very difficult to answer, that doesnt automatically mean "god" created it. Its like the modern day version of the old times when we didnt understand lightning etc and assumed this to be the works of a god, we in fact it isnt.

I think one of the most interesting things ive ever watched is this: goes for an hour so when you have the time have a listen, he is a pure genius - Richard Dawkins.

 

[calcium]

God threads will go on forever. If you think about it, this debate has been going on since man first thought of a creator/s - yet to this day we are still arguing about it! I really wish there was a God, some sort of being, as I honestly don't want to die. I love living, I love thought, it's just so wonderful. Yet I doubt life-after-death, such a wonderful thing, is around the corner. So I figure I'm just going to live the best life I can, avoiding stress and pain in general. And if I end up in hell, well great. To feel the pain of being in hell would mean I would retain my thought - and in the end no matter how much pain I'm in, as long as I have my thought I'll be happy.

Existentialism at it's finest

~Nicole

 

[ShaftedTwice]

Hardcore traditional Catholic here. And God knows I'm not going to get into a theological debate on these forums, don't want to be starting a flame war on the boards, which I can guarantee will happen. I answered the poll question.

 

[evolution]

I'm going off-topic and Mreik can't stop me bwahahahahah!

Just remember, atheism is a religion too.

Have y'all defined a conventional god? Are y'all referring to God in the Christian sense or the Hebrew belief or are we going down the path of Allah?

Buddhism doesn't count in this discussion (as the Einstein was brought up) because Buddha abhored being considered a god.

And if you don't believe in God, then what do you believe in? Why do you believe this way? Remember, science and religion are not mutually exclusive. After all, God created scientists so they can explain evolution to us.

No where in the Bible does it say the world is 5000 years old. Different Orthodoxies argue the timeline all the time.

Religious authorities debate each other quite often just as scientists debate and disprove each other quite frequently.

Carry on now.

 

[superman_1390]

I dont believe in atheism. haha. get it?!

Yes, I believe in God. The earth is so complex in the way it was made, as is the life on it. There's no way a "big bang" could set the world up perfectly to where, if the sun was a few degrees closer to the earth.. it'd burn.. a few degress further from the earth, it'd freeze. And how could darwins theory of evolution seriously make any sense? That'd take more faith to believe in that then in God. At least in my opinion. Also, once you've experienced God there is no way to refute the fact that God exist. I dont want to sound like a religious-freak but I can personally tell you that I feel God's love everyday.

 

[matt182]

I assume you mean the comfort, which is entirely different to truth.

If your finding it hard trying to apprehend how hard it is for earth and such to be, or "complex" as you say it. A god to just exist is far far more complex.

The big band wasnt set up specifically to create earth, The universe is massive beyond comprehension, of course things seeming extremely unlikley will happen.

Your entitled to your belief but obviously you dont know anything about darwinism nor biology (doesnt make any sense???). Perhaps purchase the book the God delusion, great book.

hehe

 

[Woodt]

I'm going off-topic and Mreik can't stop me bwahahahahah!

Just remember, atheism is a religion too.

Have y'all defined a conventional god? Are y'all referring to God in the Christian sense or the Hebrew belief or are we going down the path of Allah?

Buddhism doesn't count in this discussion (as the Einstein was brought up) because Buddha abhored being considered a god.

And if you don't believe in God, then what do you believe in? Why do you believe this way? Remember, science and religion are not mutually exclusive. After all, God created scientists so they can explain evolution to us.

No where in the Bible does it say the world is 5000 years old. Different Orthodoxies argue the timeline all the time.

Religious authorities debate each other quite often just as scientists debate and disprove each other quite frequently.

Carry on now.

Yeah. Some timelines date back to 7,000, some back to 10,000. I have never seen anybody trying to convince somebody of a timeline which dates more than 10,000 years. That's the stage where Christians start making claims about the Bible being a metaphor.

A kid at school is a religious fanatic. He believes every single word in the Bible through and through. When somebody asked him how oil was made in 7,000 years (the age he thinks the earth is) he replied "God put it there". When asked how fossils have been dated, he replies "God made them that old". When asked about the Tsunami, he said "Thousands of people die a day". Then finally, when asked about how people in the Old Testament lived to ages such as 900, he said "because there was less disease then". People like that you can't win against. Their faith is blind.

 

[deschain]

There are those that say romantic love is not real, but merely a comfort factor for fear of dying alone. Generally, those are the people who have never actually been in love, and those that have been/are in love disagree with them whole heartedly.

Spiritual matters are often the same. Those who don't believe dismiss love for comfort and will not believe otherwise.

Although it seems athiesm would have a comfort factor to it as well. It must be comforting to feel that no matter what you do, what kind of life you live, assuming you don't get thrown in jail, you ultimately get away with it. That there is no universal justice, other than physically getting caught.

Matters of faith and spirituality are impossible to understand to those who believe that things cannot exist without human scientific proof. Others, believe that science does not/cannot explain everything. So, it all boils down to what one person believes just "doesn't make sense" to another person, and vice versa.

 

[Jake 85]

Nobody Will ever know if there is a heaven/hell/or God until they are dead, and then it is to late to ask that person. I sin everyday, as does everyone else. I don't go to Chruch, because i dont know what they are talking about. But i do believe in God. And i think it is important to make sure God knows you want to go to heaven. I met a guy a couple days ago that told me a story that made all the sense in the world. Two Guys go into a resturant, they sit down, and before the waiter can even give them a menu they want to order steaks. The waiter asks them if they are sure they dont want to look at the menu and they say no, just bring the steaks. So they are sitting there finishing up their steaks, when the bill is brought. 170 bucks. 85 bucks a steak. They don't have the money to pay for it, so they sit there wondering what they are gonna do to get out of this. As they're sitting there, their dad walks through the door. They feel releaved. The dad tells them just give him the bill, he'll pay for it. But they tell their dad no, they'll take care of it. The moral of the story is know what your bill is going to be before you do it. You steal from a store, your bill is hell. You might think, God's a good guy, he'll let me in to heaven. And then when you are standing there waiting to get in, he send you down to hell. So do four things. 1. Tell god you know your a sinner. 2. Tell Jesus You know he died on the cross for your sins. 3. Tell God You know what is on your bill. 4. Tell God You want to be in his book.

 

[matt182]

Spiritual matters are often the same. Those who don't believe dismiss love for comfort and will not believe otherwise.

Although it seems athiesm would have a comfort factor to it as well. It must be comforting to feel that no matter what you do, what kind of life you live, assuming you don't get thrown in jail, you ultimately get away with it. That there is no universal justice, other than physically getting caught.

Matters of faith and spirituality are impossible to understand to those who believe that things cannot exist without human scientific proof. Others, believe that science does not/cannot explain everything. So, it all boils down to what one person believes just "doesn't make sense" to another person, and vice versa.

Just becuz we dont beleive in a god doesnt mean we dont care and can get away with anything. Theres a thing called morals, derived even before the scriptures. If you only act good becuase of the "great serveillance camera" in the sky, then thats pretty sad.

And one can be spiritual and not beleive in a god.

 

[deschain]

Just becuz we dont beleive in a god doesnt mean we dont care and can get away with anything. Theres a thing called morals, derived even before the scriptures. If you only act good becuase of the "great serveillance camera" in the sky, then thats pretty sad.

And one can be spiritual and not beleive in a god.

I did not mean to imply that those who are not religious cannot be moral. What I meant was, if you don't make good choices, and do not believe in an afterlife, then believing that there is no cosmic justice would be comforting.

As for only acting good out of fear, please refer to my earlier posts.

I mean spiritual in the supernatural, non-human sense, be it Christian or otherwise.

 

[Woodt]

There are those that say romantic love is not real, but merely a comfort factor for fear of dying alone. Generally, those are the people who have never actually been in love, and those that have been/are in love disagree with them whole heartedly.

Spiritual matters are often the same. Those who don't believe dismiss love for comfort and will not believe otherwise.

Although it seems athiesm would have a comfort factor to it as well. It must be comforting to feel that no matter what you do, what kind of life you live, assuming you don't get thrown in jail, you ultimately get away with it. That there is no universal justice, other than physically getting caught.

Matters of faith and spirituality are impossible to understand to those who believe that things cannot exist without human scientific proof. Others, believe that science does not/cannot explain everything. So, it all boils down to what one person believes just "doesn't make sense" to another person, and vice versa.

That in itself has one of the many answers of why religion was created in the first place. Imagine your superiors telling you that if you did not believe in this thing, you would burn forever in a 'hell'. Not to mention religion was enforced in the middle ages, you had to be religious.

 

[deschain]

My apologies Matt, in regards to Christianity being fear based, I directed you to one of my previous posts, but it wasn't in this thread. This is the post I was referencing...

"Fear of punishment plays a role in any decision we make, be it getting grounded, going to jail, paying a fine, or hell. That doesn't mean that is the basis of our decisions. Saying most Christians only believe so they don't go to hell, is like saying the only reason most people don't kill anybody is for fear of spending life in prison. Sure, it's going to be a factor, but the desire to do what you believe is right/just/moral is often a larger factor than fear of punishment."

 

[deschain]

It is not a fair statement to say that Christians believe what they do and live as they live soley for fear. Just as it would not be a fair statement to say that all athiests are immoral because they don't have fear of punishment, that's simply not true. No one can speak as to why someone else believes what they believe.

Discussing different beliefs can be an interesting and educating experience. My posts, and those of others, have been met with respectful responses, even if they disagree. I believe I will leave this conversation before that changes. At the end of the day, we all must follow our convictions and believe what we feel is right and true in our hearts.

 

[evolution]

Yeah. Some timelines date back to 7,000, some back to 10,000...Then finally, when asked about how people in the Old Testament lived to ages such as 900, he said "because there was less disease then". People like that you can't win against. Their faith is blind.

Timelines are just an estimate sometimes. A lot depends on whether you believe in a literal 7 days (aka 24 hours per day) or each day possibly spanning days, months, years, decades, centuries, or milleniums.

The Hebrews counted their time a bit different. They went by the sun. Somedays might be as short as 6 hours...so living hundreds of years is in the context of their time.

I think religion makes for good debate.

 

[matt182]

I didnt mean that for all religious people if you thought that.

I beleive that many people when awstruck and cant explain something, they automatically beleive it is a result of a higher power, such as god for example.

However isnt it so, that the human brain doesnt have the capacity to think, imagine, beyond what we have on earth. So just because we have no idea how things came to be, doesnt mean that a god is the answer.

And this is just a curious thought by me, do you guys beleive in dinosours, the netherlandians etc, what about the aboriginals who were living in australia a long time ago, how come god neglected them. I mean evolution is clearly self evident, and goes against what many people beleive in religion.

 

[Hoss]

Talking about religion on the .net is handicap-able.

 

[Okieslims]

I think if you step back and look at the effect of religions on the societies they thrive in, you will see a lot of similarities. That alone should raise a red flag. Religion has been used to controll the masses through fear and rewards. Religion has been used to justify murder, rape, etc. The vatican has a painting hanging to this day that glorifies The St. Bartholomew's Day massacre which was so brutal that the rivers were contaminated by the dead. Can you imagine glorifying something so horrible?
People do not pay attention to these things though.
I was a Christian for 20 years of my life and then I started allowing myself to ask questions.. and the more questions I had, the less answers I received.

If the buck stops at the phrase "you just have to believe" , then you can count me out. I need more than that. So that lead me to atheism. I studied several religions after that because I no long view them with a biased eye and that makes the subject a lot more interesting. I can now see the clear facts that link Jesus to several other Gods and religious figures before him. God's such as Mithrias. December 25 was a day the romans celebrated Mithrias! Not Jesus. However, they converted it to Jesus when they found that Chistianity was gaining favor in Rome. "The Gods" became "The God". There are many other characteristics of Jesus that were attributed to other Gods long before Christ supposedly came along. It's really over-whelming that this religion caught on. I mean I've seen video of people blaming the coincidences on "the devils trickery"..lol.

 

[LeiYunFat]

"Faith" has always been a mainstay of religious reasoning. You either choose to believe or you don't. That's why it's faith.

I will say that Christianity, if you look at it, is probably the most effective control that's ever been used. I personally think it's those closest to a "perfect" religion in terms of the way everything is set up and taught. It's ****ing genius, and the writers of the Bible probably borrowed a lot of effective elements from other religions...if you choose to believe this sort of thing.

So do we concede that we are done talking about the concept of God? It seems like there's been a trend of wanted to talk about religions specifically.

And personally if we do keep talking about God, I don't want to have to read another "The Earth is too complex, therefore God is obviously running the joint."

 

[Woodt]

Well it's already been said that the 3 wise men could not have possibly got to Jesus' birthplace on the day of his birth. Which every Christian recognises. The problem I see is in all the dates of the supposed events.

Evo, that thing about Hebrews judging the day on length of time the sun was up could answer a lot of questions about how Jesus spent 40 days in the desert.