Evolution or ID

What do you believe in?

  • evolution

    Votes: 43 61.4%

  • creation

    Votes: 17 24.3%

  • not sure

    Votes: 10 14.3%
  • Total voters
    70
matt182 said:
Ok so you beleive in evolution and that god started it. In other words, like many believers, god must have started the big bang (one can only wonder what he was doing for 15billions years :D). ignoring the billions of years of earth and the dinosours before, Francis collins (christian who undertook the human genome project) says our species (humans) go back at least 100 thousand years (which is quite conservative). You (or if you deny again, many other pious poeple) must then beleive god sat around for 90 thousand odd years and then said right! time to intervene. And what best way then to choose a select cult of stupid primitives in the middle east, and maybe in a thousand years reach other places such as china. Doesnt it strike you that god is just a stupid man made invention. It was a first and worst explanation for everything. If you want to believe in a god you talks to us in our head, favours some of others than thats fine :rofl:
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100% behind you on that one.
 
matt, just so you know, evolution is a theory. It is not considered an established "fact". Fact being in quotes because a true scientist recognizes the difference between a scientific "fact" and factuality itself.

As far as scientific theories go, evolution is probably the shadiest of them all. There exists almost no evidence of past evolution. The "evidence" (see: indications) for living evolution is (are) nearly overwhelming, in some cases, but this isn't actually proof of anything. In reality, the absence of an evolutionary history taken together with the presence of a living evolution is one of the stronger arguments for the existence of a higher power.

The point is that you don't seem to have any idea what you're talking about. Have you even read Dawkins? ^_^ I have.
 
Derwyddon said:
not an insult tom, but you've demonstrated you have no real concept of the topic and doing a little study sounds good ;)
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Only evolution, so are you telling my everyone who's posted in this thread knows everything about evolution etc. I know all the basics, and yes i may educate myself a little further.
 
Derwyddon said:
Knows everything? No, I'm sure not. But the things you have said are completely incorrect assumptions on the topic demonstrating that you really don't understand the topic of evolution.
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No theyre not totally incorrect at all. Most people know basically what evolution is. I was questioning it, so nothing was an assumption.


I do understand the topic, simple as that. But i know there will be facts/theorys/opinions about evolution that may answer some of my questions.

Anyway.......
 
[Focus] said:
matt, just so you know, evolution is a theory. It is not considered an established "fact". Fact being in quotes because a true scientist recognizes the difference between a scientific "fact" and factuality itself.

As far as scientific theories go, evolution is probably the shadiest of them all. There exists almost no evidence of past evolution. The "evidence" (see: indications) for living evolution is (are) nearly overwhelming, in some cases, but this isn't actually proof of anything. In reality, the absence of an evolutionary history taken together with the presence of a living evolution is one of the stronger arguments for the existence of a higher power.
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Poor poor focus, i was waiting to see who the weak person was to bring up only a theory.

Only a theory?! theorys are great, it means we have a hypothesis and tremendous amounts of evidence that supports it. Its as much of a theory as the earth revolving around the sun, or gravitation.

On the other hand the only thing creationism can do is attempt to critisize evolution, they provide no evidence for their own "theory". Actually they've been offered millions of dollars to prove that any living thing couldnt have evolved - and for the account they still have yet to find any example.

Shadiest of them all? my god you obvisouly have no clue what your talking about lol....next
 
matt182 said:
Only a theory?! theorys are great, it means we have a hypothesis and tremendous amounts of evidence that supports it. Its as much of a theory as the earth revolving around the sun, or gravitation.
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Where is this "evidence"? I asked you earlier and you have yet to reference anything but your own nonsensical conjecture.

The earth revolving around the sun isn't a theory. It's an observation. Gravitation, however, is, and it's full of holes (no pun intended).

matt182 said:
On the other hand the only thing creationism can do is attempt to critisize evolution, they provide no evidence for their own "theory". Actually they've been offered millions of dollars to prove that any living thing couldnt have evolved - and for the account they still have yet to find any example.
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You're confused. Creationism, being of a different class of belief, doesn't require the sort of "evidence" Science does. This is a mistake many people make, to criticize the logic of another system from within the subset of the offended logos. This is a child's mistake. You cannot qualify creationism from the perspective of logical empiricism (aka "Science"). This does not mean it is not a valid belief system.

matt182 said:
my god you obvisouly have no clue what your talking about lol....next
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Yes. I'm sure my ignorance is readily apparent to someone as learned as yourself.
 
You would be wrong in that assumption. I just happen to be a firm proponent of reasoned discussion. I believe in a higher power because I believe the evidence is for it. You will of course take this to mean that I believe in Creationism (have you looked it up, yet?), or a God, which is not the case.

Neither do my religious beliefs affect my life for the negative in any way. The only tenets of my beliefs are truth, righteousness and fidelity. In that order. The only consequences of failing to observe them are the natural ones.

You'll never win an argument or impress anyone (other than yourself, maybe, I mean that's what it's all about, right?) if you can't stay on topic or respond to logical argumentation with anything other than, "Pshaw. Yoo are a fewl!"
 
matt182 said:
2bebuff and bigtom. Please dont think just because you dont understand something or whatever means its wrong. Im sure if you had a scholar with an evolutionary background then they could clearly explain it to you. If you really wanted to know in depth about evolution then there are books out there like "the anscetors tale" and many others.
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I guess the same goes back to you. If you had a theologian handy they could explain to you the Bible (or other religious belief) and even some historical evidence to support it. I'm sure it wouldn't be enough to "convert" you, but that's kind of how I feel about listening to a scholar with an evolutionary background.

That aside...
I still haven't heard arguments from either side really. But, as was said above, belief in God and/or creation doesn't take proof, only faith. It's hard to convince someone of something that you can only have faith in.

Why is it these discussions always turn into a science based argument which is certainly biased towards those believing in evolution? We all like to think in scientific terms (I'm actually an engineer), but there are things in this world we do not understand. No one should assume they do.
 
In case you didnt know i studied the bible 2bebuff from when i was 7 to year 12. You dont have to study lepraconology to dismiss it do you?
 
.

The answer is yes, you do. Or, get this, you're no scientist, but rather, a dogmatist. *Here, the audience gasps in shock.*
 
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So in other words buff, you dont have any proof for creationism but faith?
Even so, just because you have faith doesnt mean you have an almighty protection from critisizm. Usually extroadinary claims are backed up with extroadinary evidence. the only exception seems to be anything related to religion.
 
I understand that most people don't necessarily take their religious scriptures literally when they think of creationism but it must be said that evolution has been proven to happen so, not quite sure that belief comes into it although I am not criticising what people chose to accept after all, for some, ignorance can be bliss.
I say this as a person who is religious i.e. goes to service at religious holidays etc.
 
c&p

Ok so you beleive in evolution and that god started it. In other words, like many believers, god must have started the big bang (one can only wonder what he was doing for 15billions years?). ignoring the billions of years of earth and the dinosours before, Francis collins (christian who undertook the human genome project) says our species (humans) go back at least 100 thousand years (which is quite conservative). You must or at least other pious poeple must then beleive god sat around for 90 thousand odd years and then said right! time to intervene. And what best way then to choose a select cult of stupid primitives in the middle east, and maybe in a thousand years reach other places such as china. Doesnt it strike you that god is just a stupid man made invention by stupid primitive peasants. It was a first and worst explanation for everything.

BY the way the universe is increasinly expanding. We know there was at least some somethingness to begin with and NOTHINGNESS is the next big thing, some design huh? I suppose god will want to alter our closest galaxy which is heading right for us. A universe with a god would look very different from one with a god, and our universe works exactly like as if there wasnt.
 
I like how your counter to an ID-style argument is a Non-intelligent Design argument that makes even less sense. XD

I love this guy. :D
 
physics is not intellgient, its doesnt have a consciousness does it.

If the only reason you beleive in a god is because of the complexity, then your simply just shooting yourself in the conceptual foot because any god to just have existed would have had to have been tremendously more complex and finely tuned, statisically improbable.
 
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