Need to lose body fat, not weight, stuck at 15.5%

[Steve]

Truthfully I don't think that amount of intensity manipulation/periodization is necessary at novice and even intermediate levels. At these stages I'm a fan of simply focusing on getting stronger. It's a time to test your limits in terms of recoverability.

The stronger one gets, the more 'stress' they apply systemically to the body.

For instance, I've been lifting for approx. a decade now hard and heavy. I've made a lot of progress in terms of strength and hypertrophy. I do something similar to the RPE stuff. I'll ramp up to a very high intensity week. If I feel good after... I might push out one more. Then I'll back off. My ramp up period varies too, depending on how I'm training at the moment. Sometimes it's 2-3 weeks... others it's 8-10 or more.

A novice and some intermediates on the other hand, I'd have them focusing on progressively overloading the muscles until that stops working. Then, and only then, do I recommend more advanced/complex periodization schemes. No sense in muddying the waters if you don't have to.

Make sense?

 

[pcm2a]

Makes great sense.

The carb thing (which I also made sure the calories were low in the foods too, without a scale) made me drop a pound or two almost instantaneously, but my body fat range did not change over the course of the month. I figure the 1-2 pounds of instant loss was fake or something from the low carbs. The reason I figure that is I can eat one single terrible meal, like the chips/salsa/chicken fajitas(no shell,rice,orbeans) that I'm going to eat for dinner tonight and I will instantaneously gain those 2 pounds back for the next few days and then it will be back 2 pounds lighter.

On my previous (and now to be current again) low calorie diet I didn't watch carbs at all and my weight swung from 136-139 regardless of what I ate, including a bad meal once or twice a week.

Looks like a good grams digital scale is only $15-20 on the walmart site!

 

[BigMOFO]

Truthfully I don't think that amount of intensity manipulation/periodization is necessary at novice and even intermediate levels. At these stages I'm a fan of simply focusing on getting stronger. It's a time to test your limits in terms of recoverability.

The stronger one gets, the more 'stress' they apply systemically to the body.

For instance, I've been lifting for approx. a decade now hard and heavy. I've made a lot of progress in terms of strength and hypertrophy. I do something similar to the RPE stuff. I'll ramp up to a very high intensity week. If I feel good after... I might push out one more. Then I'll back off. My ramp up period varies too, depending on how I'm training at the moment. Sometimes it's 2-3 weeks... others it's 8-10 or more.

A novice and some intermediates on the other hand, I'd have them focusing on progressively overloading the muscles until that stops working. Then, and only then, do I recommend more advanced/complex periodization schemes. No sense in muddying the waters if you don't have to.

Make sense?

yup, makes sense. I was thinking I should take a break from weight training for a week, then start again with a tad bit lighter weights and work up from their. I've been doing my pullups and bench presses to failure for loooong time now with no more than 48 hours break in between each session. I probably need the recovery time. What do you think?

 

[Steve]

The carb thing (which I also made sure the calories were low in the foods too, without a scale) made me drop a pound or two almost instantaneously, but my body fat range did not change over the course of the month. I figure the 1-2 pounds of instant loss was fake or something from the low carbs.

Most likely had to do with water/glycogen flux from the low carb.

The reason I figure that is I can eat one single terrible meal, like the chips/salsa/chicken fajitas(no shell,rice,orbeans) that I'm going to eat for dinner tonight and I will instantaneously gain those 2 pounds back for the next few days and then it will be back 2 pounds lighter.

Yup, sounds about right.

On my previous (and now to be current again) low calorie diet I didn't watch carbs at all and my weight swung from 136-139 regardless of what I ate, including a bad meal once or twice a week.

But do carbs make you feel tired, puffy, or have volatile energy swings?

Looks like a good grams digital scale is only $15-20 on the walmart site!

Grams and ounces are nice if it does that.

But it shouldn't be too costly.

 

[Steve]

yup, makes sense. I was thinking I should take a break from weight training for a week, then start again with a tad bit lighter weights and work up from their. I've been doing my pullups and bench presses to failure for loooong time now with no more than 48 hours break in between each session. I probably need the recovery time. What do you think?

Hopefully you're doing more than just bench and pullups.

But yea... even in the novice/intermediate recovery is important. If you feel run down, achy, or your strength plateaus, it's a good indication to cut back for a week or so or take an entire week off.

 

[BigMOFO]

Hopefully you're doing more than just bench and pullups.

I do a full body workout, but being a guy who wants to eventually benchpress a shit load and do countless pullups, I did them to failure hoping it would help. I was actually starting to get very depressed over my lack of progress, but I feel better now and I'm looking forward to next week when I start things out right. thanks again Steve.

 

[Steve]

Gotcha and good. You're quite welcome.

 

[pcm2a]

But do carbs make you feel tired, puffy, or have volatile energy swings?

I don't really feel different with either diet plan, and didn't go hungry (as long as I stuck to the 5-6 eats a day plan). The only problem I had giving up all of the carbs was potato chips. Even the lower calorie chips had to go, also instead of eating sliced turkey meat in a wrap I left off the wrap, which just seems silly. I also quit eating at SubWay which I really liked.

I found this site that I think could be a giant part of my problem:


I am not, and haven't ever done the HIIT. This describes my cardio exactly!

The Long, Slow, Boring "Cardio"

In fact, when you're running the same routine day in and day out without changing up, you're prone to joint wear-and-tear and risk of overuse injury. You may actually start muscle wasting by subjecting your body to catabolic conditions. Not only that you don't burn fat efficiently as your body adapts to the same routine, but you may start to lose lean muscle mass. So you may actually get fat. This is absolutely not the ideal scenario for your weight loss effort.

I'm going to immediatly change my cardio to 30 minutes of HIIT, 60 if I can handle it, but I suspect at first it will be more like 30 minutes of long-boring and then 30 of HIIT.

 

[Steve]

I don't really feel different with either diet plan, and didn't go hungry (as long as I stuck to the 5-6 eats a day plan). The only problem I had giving up all of the carbs was potato chips. Even the lower calorie chips had to go, also instead of eating sliced turkey meat in a wrap I left off the wrap, which just seems silly. I also quit eating at SubWay which I really liked.

Well if you don't have a carb intolerance, I don't see any reason to go low carb unless you don't like carbs. Which would be very odd.

I found this site that I think could be a giant part of my problem:


I am not, and haven't ever done the HIIT. This describes my cardio exactly!


I'm going to immediatly change my cardio to 30 minutes of HIIT, 60 if I can handle it, but I suspect at first it will be more like 30 minutes of long-boring and then 30 of HIIT.

See, this is what I'm talking about. Your grasping for The One Way. In my opinion, you really need to stop that.

There's no such thing as 30 and 60 minutes HIIT. Stick with one facet of your training/diet at a time. If you go changing everything at once, how are you going to know what's working and what's not?

If you want to read about the differences between HIIT and regular 'cardio' read this series. I promise the author is much more informed than the author you're reading here.

I mean this is all I had to read from that link you provided to decide whether I should read this or not:

One great way to fire up your fat-burning furnace and keep it burning is to do a brief 10- to 15- minute H.I.I.T. cardio at mostly RPE scale of 7 to 8 at the end of your strength training session.

It'll help you melt away unwanted body fat faster than ever. The excess post-exercise oxygen consumption (EPOC) demand due to high intensity strength training and H.I.I.T. cardio will fire up your metabolism and keep your body in fat-burning mode for good 24 to 48 hours.

Anyhow, read this:



And read all the parts, it will take some searching through the blog but well worth the time.

 

[pcm2a]

Thanks for the link I'll definitly give it a read later tonight, and try to read up on other cardio information that I can find. I've been spending my time trying to read everything I can and gather all the knowledge of the ages.

If 3 things make up my weight loss (or lack of), food, cardio, and weights, and I'm not doing any of them optimally or could tweak them to make them better I see no reason to try one a month at a time to see which works the best. You are right though, that I could change everything up and it be a dietary change or a cardio change making the biggest difference and I probably wouldn't know.

What I do know is I did the super high intensity followed by lower intensity in 4 minute intervals on a cross ramp for 30 minutes at lunch and it was about all I could take. I feel more worn out than when I walk for an hour and do an hour a weights. I used to feel like that doing long cardio when I weighed 186 pounds. I might switch up those session with long cardio sessions to get the best of both worlds.

 

[Steve]

Thanks for the link I'll definitly give it a read later tonight, and try to read up on other cardio information that I can find. I've been spending my time trying to read everything I can and gather all the knowledge of the ages.

If 3 things make up my weight loss (or lack of), food, cardio, and weights, and I'm not doing any of them optimally or could tweak them to make them better I see no reason to try one a month at a time to see which works the best. You are right though, that I could change everything up and it be a dietary change or a cardio change making the biggest difference and I probably wouldn't know.

The thing is this is about about learning how to apply these things for the rest of your life.

HIIT is not some secret training parameter that's ultimately better than steady state aerobics.

What I do know is I did the super high intensity followed by lower intensity in 4 minute intervals on a cross ramp for 30 minutes at lunch and it was about all I could take. I feel more worn out than when I walk for an hour and do an hour a weights. I used to feel like that doing long cardio when I weighed 186 pounds. I might switch up those session with long cardio sessions to get the best of both worlds.

Just remember that a caloric deficit and beating your body into submission usually leaves people desiring a lot more.

 

[XFactor Fitness]

I have read all that has gone back and forth...and I have to say, I agree with Steve 100%. Your caloric intake is wayyyyyy to low. Yes you need to be in a caloric deficit in order to loose weight, however unless I am reading you wrong you are not necessarily trying to lose weight. If I am reading correctly you are trying to lose fat. In order to do that in order to effectively do that, you need a combination of a few things.

1. You need to know what your Total Caloric Expenditure, once you have this number you can figure out what your total caloric allowance is. If you drop that by roughly 2 calories per your body weight (ie if you weigh 150, you would subtract roughly 300 calories from this), this will allow you to lose about 2ibls a week. The pounds will be fat, not muscle.

2. Eat at least every 3 hours

3. Eat clean (Good fats-Avocado, Olive Oil etc. Good Carbs- wheat, or multigrain only)

4. Eat protein with every meal

5. Consume roughly 2g per body weight of protein, and if possible a little less then 1g per body weight of carbs.

6. Try HIT for cardio (High Interval Training) 1 min sprint, 30 sec rest, 1 min sprint etc.

7. You absolutely have to supplement for your training- protein, BCAA etc.

Now I agree you should try creatine for muscle recovery, now the only thing I disagree with Steve on is I think glutamine is an absolute especially before bed. In addition I would suggest CLA and L-Carnitine, these are specific supplements for fat reduction.

You have to drink plenty of water too, not that you didn't already know that but I feel like I should tell you anyway.

I hope I didn't ramble too much, again your calorie intake is way to low in my opinion. I hope that helped a little and good luck!!!!

XFactor Fitness

 

[pcm2a]

I'm definitely going to start alternating HIT and slow long cardio days to get the best of both worlds in there. I'm also going to pick up a scale later tonight so I can track over the next week exactly what is going in so we can figure out how much more/less I should be eating, and what dietary changes to make.

I did the first full body workout after work today, took about 50 minutes or so.
BB Bench 3x8, Cable row 3x8, DB Overhead press, Pulldown 2x12, Deadlift 3x8, Flies 3x8, 1 bicep, 1 tricep.

I wasn't sure what to substitute for lunges, so I picked flies since i like them quite a bit. You were also correct that the Deadlift didn't put much pressure on my bad knee. At higher weights it might, but with the amount I'm doing starting out it's not going to.

I honestly didn't think I would feel wore out after that, but it did me in pretty well. I assume that I shouldn't expect the usual chest or arm soreness that I normally get from blowing it out?

Questions:
Is it important to maintain that order each time I go? For example, if I swapped that routine around backwards I don't think I would do 3 sets with 55s on the bench press last.

Do you recommend 3 or 4 days inbetween the next full workout, or does it not really matter which?

Thanks! I only wish I had started all this about 6 months ago, I'd look like the swartzenager by now...

 

[allyphoe]

If you drop that by roughly 2 calories per your body weight (ie if you weigh 150, you would subtract roughly 300 calories from this), this will allow you to lose about 2ibls a week. The pounds will be fat, not muscle.

A 300-calorie-per-day deficit does not get you 2 pounds a week of fat loss; theoretically, it'd get you to 0.6 pounds a week. Now, if you weigh 500 pounds, a 2-calorie-per-pound-per-day deficit probably will get you to 2 pounds a week.

 

[Steve]

I disagree with Steve on is I think glutamine is an absolute especially before bed.

I'm curious as to why? Preferably with the supporting research if you have it please.

 

[Steve]

I'm definitely going to start alternating HIT and slow long cardio days to get the best of both worlds in there.

It's not the best of both worlds always. I like to think I know a thing or two about this stuff and my last cut I did absolutely no HIIT. If it's the best, why wouldn't I include it?

Context is why.

Nothing is good or bad on it's own merit!

HIIT is very intensive to your CNS. So is weight training. While dieting, your energetic capacity and recoverability are reduced. When these things are reduced, it's is NOT the time to be crushing yourself with CNS-intensive training.

When it comes to programming, it really is all about managing your fitness and fatigue.

I wasn't sure what to substitute for lunges, so I picked flies since i like them quite a bit. You were also correct that the Deadlift didn't put much pressure on my bad knee. At higher weights it might, but with the amount I'm doing starting out it's not going to.

That's good to hear.

I honestly didn't think I would feel wore out after that, but it did me in pretty well. I assume that I shouldn't expect the usual chest or arm soreness that I normally get from blowing it out?

I'm not sure if you'll get sore or not. I've been sore from full body sessions plenty of times... but I can't say if you will. Mind you, soreness is not an indication of an effective workout. If I haven't said that yet, I can't stress this enough.

When I'm dieting, I actually try and avoid getting sore.

Questions:
Is it important to maintain that order each time I go? For example, if I swapped that routine around backwards I don't think I would do 3 sets with 55s on the bench press last.

I'd keep it the same. Change when you have to, not for the sake of changing.

Do you recommend 3 or 4 days inbetween the next full workout, or does it not really matter which?

It probably isn't going to matter much at the end of the day. When I've done two sessions per week I usually do Monday and Thursday.

 

[XFactor Fitness]

A 300-calorie-per-day deficit does not get you 2 pounds a week of fat loss; theoretically, it'd get you to 0.6 pounds a week. Now, if you weigh 500 pounds, a 2-calorie-per-pound-per-day deficit probably will get you to 2 pounds a week.

With cardio and exercise it would in fact get you the deficit you need to lose roughly 2 IBls a week. I am not saying just to drop your caloric intake by 2 calories per pound. I am saying to find what his total caloric allowance is(what he would need to maintain the weight he is at)and drop that by an additional 2 calories per pound. This already throws him in a deficit, so if he continues to do his workout regimen with cardio and resistance training, he would in fact lose roughly 2 pounds of body fat. I use this method with most of my clients when I put their meal plans together. I do all the formula calculations, and take it from there. I am not sure if I explained myself correctly in the last posting, but this is what I meant.

 

[Steve]

Two lbs per week might fly when someone has a good bit of fat to lose. That's not the case here. I highly doubt a 136 lb male who has been dieting for quite a long time with no breaks is going to able to lose 2 lbs per week. And if he did, I'd be willing to bet he'd be doing more harm than good.

 

[pcm2a]

I'd be excited if I could lose 1% body fat a month. Faster than that is even better of course, and I don't mind beating myself up for it, if you know what I mean. I couldn't find a digital scale for under $30, so I just picked up a "analog" one. It might not be as exact but I think it should do. Most of the things I eat will be from the package and not weighed anyways.

I started putting in todays food including the grams, and one number this fitday site shows seems alarming.
Calories Eaten Today
grams cals %total
Total: 390
Fat: 36 324 83%
Sat: 12 108 28%
Carbs: 2 6 2%
Protein: 15 60 15%
Total grams for the three wieners is 135. The alarming number is the 83%. What things on the packages should I be watching out for besides a low calorie number? Is it critical to get items that are low in calorie and low in fat?

I'm not even sure where that 83% comes from. 36 grams of fat out of 135 grams total is not 83%, it's more like 18%.

That was for a couple hotdogs (no bun). Normally that is the type of thing I eat if I need to get out the door quick since the calories are pretty low (I used to have some 90 cal hot dogs, but need to pick more up)

 

[Susan V]

A gram of fat equals 9 calories, while a gram of carbs or protein is only 4 calories. Sounds to me like a lot of your calories might be coming from the wrong kinds of fat. Try tracking your fat and keep it to around 30-35% but also pick foods that have the right kind of fat - like fatty fish, nuts, avocados etc.