I think
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About the pink name:
Mreik picked it out for me, and I've got a weakness for him. He gets all excited over something and I just can't bear to tell him "Honey, it's really a bit feminine for my taste"
I cut a little too much out of that piece so I apologise, I wanted to include the part about infanticide being an old Chinese tradition to show that it is a cultural thing and nothing to do with the communist government. You really should ask for a better example or do a little research of your own before defending a cause you know nothing about
Here is a report of Infanticide in China that is more up to dateCNN In-Depth Specials - Visions of China - Social Overview.
Official figures are obviously hard to come by as these deaths aren't reported but if you look at the birth rates in China (end of this article) compared to the rest of the world I think it's fair to say that about 10-15% of baby girls are murdered because of their gender at birth (most people in China have no access to ultrasound so they need to wait until the baby is born to see if they need to be killed) BBC NEWS | World | Asia-Pacific | China 'to punish' two-child rich
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I personally could not find anything that looked credible, and that's why I did ask you for a better example
In fact, i can quote it in my message right here
I mean, I can only assume that you read this, and therefore assume thats' why you messaged me telling me that you found better resources for me.
Not only was this a 10 sentence resource, but I didn't see any type of citations (if they are there, I dind't see them, but they may be there).I was thinking you know, a printed study.
However, all that really needs to be said to this source is... CNN, lol. :yelrotflmao:
Well, I can quote for you my last reply again
I guess you may not have read this
let's see, I'm pretty decent at math, so let's see if I can do this
the birth rate is 13.45 births per 1000 people (accoridng to the 2007 World Factbook).
So, that's about 17.68 million births per year with a population of 1.314 billion (population is cited from your source, though i'm pretty sure it's more like 1.32 billion now, however, it will make little to no difference)
Now, let's apply the Western statistic for boys to girls to those births which is 104:107
We come upon the number of about 8.97 million girls born a year
Ok, we'll take your number, between 10-15% girls are killed after birth, (i don't know where you got this, but we'll use it just because) so 12.5% then.
12.5% of 8.97 million is approximately 1.1 million
By your numbers about 1.1 million girls are murdered each year. (you could calculate how close this is to the estimate for the boys to girls reported ratio of 119.25:100, in which case you would find that of about 8.97 million born, using 104:107 ratio, about 8.06 are reported, so actually about 910,000 killed in that case, but we'll give you the benefit and use 1.1 million)
Now, to find out who kills their girls.
multiply 1.1 million girls by 2, one for each parents (and who knows, it could be less if the same parents keep killing girls) so it's about 2.2 million parents.
divide 2.2 million by 1.314 billion. about .16% of the population allegedly practices infanticide.
If I made a mistake please point it out.
Note that the numbers were calculated using the most significant figures given in the resource when possible. not necessarily the rounded numbers given throughout the process.
I'm not saying it's right but I'm saying that .16% of the population does it, and you can't judge the whole on such a small fraction of it.
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You made lots of mistakes;
In your figures you’re including people who didn’t have children this year which is pointless, you need to factor in how many they will have in their lifetime; this shows you may be good at maths but not statistical analysis; and considering it takes two to make a baby and you’re attributing the death to just one person then you are absolving one of them from blame.
If you only use the numbers of people in China who did have children this year then it’s plainly obvious that approx 12.5% of parents are killing their child after birth (due to the lack of ultra sound they need to wait until the child is born before deciding whether to keep it).
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I felt that you needed to take in the whole of the population, but, you make a valid point and we will redo the math in your manner.
I don't know how many parents gave birth, we will for simplicities sake say, 17.68 million births, therefore 35.36 million parents. The fact that this number simply multiplies 17.68 million births by two is equalized by the fact that only 17.68 milion births are reported.
using the same 1.1 million baby girls born that are killed (i believe that will still be a valid number), that's 2.2 million parents killing their babies 6.2% of 2.7% of the population (you can ignore the 2.7% of the population if you want to limit it solely to people giving birth)
We could also use 900,000 million baby girls born that are killed (I explained, i believe, how to attain this number)
mulitiply by 2, so that's 1.8 million, that's 5.1%
I am not absolving one of them of the blame
If you read my post carefully, I did multiply the number of babies "killed" by 2, to take for the parents
I don't see how it is plainly obvious.
That's about right, and then of course you need to take out those that had boys as they couldn't possibly have had the opportunity to kill a girl and that figure is getting up to the 12.5% I claimed
But even if you were to use 5.1%, to have 5.1% of your population as baby murderers is outrageous
What is also outrageous is that you assume that just because somebody had a boy they would have killed a girl.
And it is not 5.1% of the population, it is 5.1% of 2.7% of the population
about .1% of the population.
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I'm not saying they would, I'm just saying that they can't be included in the statistics as they are exempt due to the fact that they didn't have a girl
The issue her is the killing of infant girls, therefore only those who have given birth to girls can be included
It's called statistics, the trend is uncovered and then applied to the larger population. To speculate that the figure of 12.5% would not carry over to the population as a whole is to suggest that people giving birth to girls are pre-disposed to be killers of girls.
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not only that, but some people do have abortions, as cited by your BBC news source. In fact, it lists 3 reasons for the skewed ratio as, aborted female fetuses, female infanticide, and lack of reporting female births (which does NOT necessarily mean they are killed)
If we are not counting abortiosn as murder as well (which the numbers given do) then the number is even smaller
If we are not counting abortiosn as murder as well (which the numbers given do) then the number is even smaller
You don't consider abortion murder?
Yeah, i've actually heard of it believe it or not.
THe trend isn't really uncovered until you know how many are aborted, how many are actually thus killed, and how many are born but simply unreported.
Your own sources say this happens mostly in rural areas. You must then apply this percentage, to mostly rural areas and the population of those areas. You would more than likely find, in the end, that the majority of the infanticide occurs in rural areas, and therefore cannot count the population of urban areas into the trend of 12.5%. Therefore, 12.5% cannot be applied to the whole, because the whole does not live on a farm.
That's a whole seperate issue I'd rather not get into, but as you asked, I'm anti-abortion but I think it's such a sensitive issue that to discuss the issue on an internet forum is unwise
As for the abortion thing, as I said before, ultrasound is not commonly available in most parts of China so people wait until the baby is born to see the sex.
But yes, abortions will make up a part of that 12.5%, whether people consider that murder is up to them
As for unreporting, it's less common than you might think, in China, each housing area has a 'nanny' who regularly checks the houses of all women of child bearing age to keep check of their family. She lives in their neighbourhood and would report any sign of another child
Let's start another thread for this discussion.
Come to think about it, we should really have started a new thread for the whole baby killing discussion, but if Evo thinks it's OK then it's good.. it was a random thread anyways. But since it has evolved into a discussion I think we should stick to that one topic in this one thread.
The 12.5% come from national statistics, not rural, the figure may be higher in the rural areas and lower in the inner city but the average is 12.5% so can be applied nationwide
:yelrotflmao: Yeah, a thread on abortion. Lets chuck in aliens and God too