I think

You can't force someone to love anything.

If they have been playing it since they've learned to walk, they learn to love the game.

All these world champions, professional foot ball or basketball players, etc. Most of them, when I read their biographies would talk about how their parents put them into these sports and programs when they were really young, and they learn to love the game and they are used to playing it.

Really? Yeah, I guess you would know since your there to talk to the family behind closed doors.

I'm sure the parents just love seeing their only child taken away from them without any say in the matter. As remember, the Chinese are still subject to the law of one child per family or you suffer stiff penalty's.

I know a lot about Asian culture, respect is something that is very important between families. There have been times when a couple gymnasts asked to go home, their parents didn't let them and told them to stay.

And I guess you didn't know, but the Chinese government allows families to have an extra kid if the government takes them away. And its not like they never see them again, they get to visit the family every 2-3 months.

and the One child policy is a joke and really only works with the poor population, there have been news articles where wealthy chinese families have had up to 5 kids. The "stiff" punishment you talk about is a fee every month, which is pocket change for the rich over there.
 
I have many friends whos parents did exactly that phate and they hated sports so much by the time I graduated high school that some of them turned down full ride scholarships for wrestling because they hated that their parents pushed so hard. They were, and could have remained phenomenal athletes, more than one doesn't even step foot in a gym anymore because of that resentment. I would just suggest taking a careful approach to putting your kids in sports, make sure they are competing in something they enjoy. I dunno, that's my opinion anyways.

Of course, I would NEVER force my kid to do something he doesn't like. But I would make sure to find out what he does like.

If he's interested in music, i'll buy him a musical instrument and put him in music programs.

if hes into sports, he'll be playing on teams every year.

If he's into academics...you get the point.
 
Of course, I would NEVER force my kid to do something he doesn't like. But I would make sure to find out what he does like.

If he's interested in music, i'll buy him a musical instrument and put him in music programs.

if hes into sports, he'll be playing on teams every year.

If he's into academics...you get the point.

In that case I agree completely :)
 
lmao
and the One child policy is a joke and really only works with the poor population,[/U] there have been news articles where wealthy chinese families have had up to 5 kids. The "stiff" punishment you talk about is a fee every month, which is pocket change for the rich over there.
An estimated minimum of around 300million people in china are at the poverty level or below.

Yeah, its nice to be rich. The poor suffer. The rich prosper and can afford the "penalty's" to have more than one kid at a time...How nice.

I know a lot about Asian culture, respect is something that is very important between families. There have been times when a couple gymnasts asked to go home, their parents didn't let them and told them to stay.
Lmao So?


And I guess you didn't know, but the Chinese government allows families to have an extra kid if the government takes them away. And its not like they never see them again, they get to visit the family every 2-3 months.
WOW, how generous of them! Ahh, A government entity that is not voted for by the people has full control over any child they want! AND they let the kid see the family from time to time?


You seem to like their culture and way of governing. Why don't you live there?
 
Meh, i agree with Phate - who gives a flying f uck (about the opening ceremony etc.)...I didn't see it, but it was good (apparantly) so who cares.

China should be penalised for having 12 year olds represent their gymnastics team...

fengyt5.jpg


and...Men, representing their women's weightlifting team...

caolei.jpg
 
in relation to the issue of the opening ceremony, i don't see how faking footstep fireworks is at all immoral while i do think it's kind of sad that they made the prettier girl sing for the uglier girl, i also dont' see that as a kind of huge deal.

It amazes me how many people like to talk about a culture they have little to no understanding of. Now, I dind't take time to read all the complaints here, as i'm sure i've heard them before, but i can tell you for sure that phate is right and the vast majority of parents do support their kids going to these rigorous programs and they sure as hell do bring honor to their families.

As for the age thing, (just as a side note as far as I'm concerned, my country is America, I was born and raised here) the age question seems like a bunch of bitching because US dind't take gold. If we be honest with ourselves, the age issue would not be such a huge deal if US had taken gold.
Anyway, I have no idea what age those kids are, and don't really care to find out. However, you can't just look at them and say they are underage. Most chinese girls look like that at ages 16 and even older. I mean, i obviously have no way of proving this to you, but since I've been to china many times, and seen many adolescent girls, then i would bet money on the fact that no outsider would be able to guess the age of a young girl based on appearance. For all we know, those earlier newspapers did report the ages wrong and they really are 16, again, i can't prove this to you, nor does it really matter to me.
Finally, being young sure as hell does not mean there is less pressure on the girls to perform well. If you think so, again you do not understand the culture, and have no basis to make these remarks on.

Also, Trevor M. Maybe there are an estimated 300 milliion people in poverty in china (I don't know), but you should probably also consider the fact that there are a **** ton of people in china.
If you look at the 2004 fact book (I really dind't have time to find a more recent source just to justify things to you) US had a poverty rate of 12% while China had a poverty rate of 10%.



I really dont' see the need to make any other points as they'll probably be met with poor understanding, and prejudiced remarks, so I'll just leave off with the fact that you really should try to learn something of a culture before you judge it. Just because someone is different than you doesn't mean that you're right, and they're communist bastards.

Please, enjoy the rest of your argument.
 
I really dont' see the need to make any other points as they'll probably be met with poor understanding, and prejudiced remarks, so I'll just leave off with the fact that you really should try to learn something of a culture before you judge it. Just because someone is different than you doesn't mean that you're right, and they're communist bastards.

When did I judge something? I made comments and asked rhetorical questions on someone else's judgments. You should read what your responding to more carefully.


phate is right and the vast majority of parents do support their kids going to these rigorous programs and they sure as hell do bring honor to their families.
FYI, This is a blanket statement, an assumption, and a judgment.^

If you look at the 2004 fact book (I really dind't have time to find a more recent source just to justify things to you) US had a poverty rate of 12% while China had a poverty rate of 10%.
12.7% was the poverty percentage in America at that time. So whats your point?

Perhaps you should reread things. I didn't "Bash" china. I didn't cast down the culture. I didn't call them communist bastards. Hell...I even give china props for the vast improvements it has gone through over the past 10+years.

I do find it funny you talk about how people are making judgments based on China's culture. Yet, the only person to do so is the person you are "agreeing" with.

Please, enjoy the rest of your argument.
Lastly, there is a difference between a discussion and an argument.
 
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When did I judge something? I made comments and asked rhetorical questions on someone else's judgments. You should read what your responding to more carefully.

Seems to me like you're judging some aspects of the culture like the government. Sorry if I'm mistaken.

FYI, This is a blanket statement, an assumption, and a judgment.^
Yes, this is a blanket statement, and I did clarify that the majority (not all) feel this way, I dind't say everyone did because i don't know. It is as well an assumption and a judgement, however, it is based on knowledge and involvement in the culture.

If you don't believe me, you could very feasibly email the athletes or their families and ask.


12.7% was the poverty percentage in America at that time. So whats your point?
Just pointing out that america has a higher percent of poverty than china, since you did mention some numbers. What exactly was your point? That alot of people couldn't afford to pay the "fine" or w/e to have mroe than one child? Doesn't really matter becaue u should also realise that having mroe than one child is much more difficult in china anyway, maybe u should read on the schooling systems/life in general etc. I mean it sucks about the one child thing but people generally (blanket statement again? it's true though) understand that it wouldn't be feasible to allow poeple to have like 4 kids or sometihng like that.
But you are right, had i read your post more carefully, there would have been no need for me to post these statistics. Kudos to you.

Perhaps you should reread things. I didn't "Bash" china. I didn't cast down the culture. I didn't call them communist bastards. Hell...I even give china props for the vast improvements it has gone through over the past 10+years.
I dind't say u bashed china. Your sarcastic and what seemed to me like prejudiced remarks (prejudice based on your beliefs not implying racism in general or anything) simply indicated to me that you made statements about a culture you dind't understand.

for instance
WOW, how generous of them! Ahh, A government entity that is not voted for by the people has full control over any child they want! AND they let the kid see the family from time to time?


You seem to like their culture and way of governing. Why don't you live there?
Seems like a judgement to me, again based on poor understanding of a culture
And the second part seems plain unnecessary.
Seems kind of like bashing too, but if that wasn't your intention, alright then.

I do find it funny you talk about how people are making judgments based on China's culture. Yet, the only person to do so is the person you are "agreeing" with.
If you really believe you have made no judgements then i odn't think that phate has made any either. Maybe I can't read, though I think there is much to indicate otherwise.

Lastly, there is a difference between a discussion and an argument.
Argument has more than one definition but generally the same meaning, another definition of argument other than what I assume you are speaking of is, and i quote from dictionary.com (yeah, i took the time to verify it for you),
"a discussion involving differing points of view; debate"
You and phate do have different points of view don't you? you are discussing aren't you?
That, and I was referring to the argument, or point, that you would inevitably make in your reply. another definition, btw.
Sorry if you misunderstood.


My post wasn't entirely directed at you by the way. The former one anyway, this one is.
 
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The opening ceremony is ENTERTAINMENT.....it's not athletic competition. I thought it was amazing; it raised the bar to a higher level, and while they used a lot of technology, they also incorporated a lot of man-power & talent to make it happen. Appreciate it for what it's worth, it was awesome.

You know what my favorite part was? The smiling. To see these communist countries allowing themselves to smile and enjoy themselves is really nice. They were told to smile? They were encouraged to smile and they embraced it. Did you see the look on those performers faces?

When these countires host an event, it puts them more in global public focus.....suddenly they're a bit more interested in looking good to the world. That means they either have to hide things better OR start doing the right thing. I'd be willing to bet they tried to reduce air-pollution in the weeks to come for fear of being embarrassed by what the cameras would capture....and when they do make the air cleaner, don't you think someone over there will realize this is something they should do on a more regular basis?

I won't pretend to understand all these various cultures, but I do know that these communist countries tend to be too intense. When you lose over here, someone tells you "good job, you gave it your all" and people still respect you. In some....SOME...of these countries losing is shameful, a disgrace and something you could be punished for.

The world, as a whole, needs to grow-up....and in some manner of observation I see these Olympic games helping in a way to bring us together, realize we're all human and make the world a better place. It's good to meet on the field of athletic competition rather then field of battle. It's a good thing.
 
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When my kid turns 4-5 years old i'm going to either enroll him in a sport and make him learn to love it, or if i have a girl i'll enroll her in dance or gymnastics.

If I had kids, I sure wouldn't let them opt out of athletics. Sports builds a lot more than just bodies ...
 
And I guess you didn't know, but the Chinese government allows families to have an extra kid if the government takes them away. And its not like they never see them again, they get to visit the family every 2-3 months.

Wow that makes it better.



As far as the girls ages, it really doesnt matter to me but if they did break the rules then they need to be penalized. Hell if we can let a few rules slide here and there, then why do we have them? All of the people who were DQ'd because of drugs should be allowed to compete as well.
 
The opening ceremony is ENTERTAINMENT.....it's not athletic competition. I thought it was amazing; it raised the bar to a higher level, and while they used a lot of technology, they also incorporated a lot of man-power & talent to make it happen. Appreciate it for what it's worth, it was awesome.

You know what my favorite part was? The smiling. To see these communist countries allowing themselves to smile and enjoy themselves is really nice. They were told to smile? They were encouraged to smile and they embraced it. Did you see the look on those performers faces?

When these countires host an event, it puts them more in global public focus.....suddenly they're a bit more interested in looking good to the world. That means they either have to hide things better OR start doing the right thing. I'd be willing to bet they tried to reduce air-pollution in the weeks to come for fear of being embarrassed by what the cameras would capture....and when they do make the air cleaner, don't you think someone over there will realize this is something they should do on a more regular basis?

I won't pretend to understand all these various cultures, but I do know that these communist countries tend to be too intense. When you lose over here, someone tells you "good job, you gave it your all" and people still respect you. In some....SOME...of these countries losing is shameful, a disgrace and something you could be punished for.

The world, as a whole, needs to grow-up....and in some manner of observation I see these Olympic games helping in a way to bring us together, realize we're all human and make the world a better place. It's good to meet on the field of athletic competition rather then field of battle. It's a good thing.

As usual, I agree with BSL...as far as the fireworks go, I do feel that technology is a valid tool to use in putting together a show like this...I think people are gripey about it because China thought of it first...I bet anyone here $100 that within 2 years, the Super Bowl fireworks will be likewise reliant on technological "props"...I don't have a problem with that at all.

I do think it was mean to hide the "ugly" girl and substitute the "pretty" girl...however, my guess is that it didn't bother the girls much at all--the singer probably didn't even realize that she was being dissed...if singing for a global audience qualifies as a "dis"...

I DO take issue with the underage athletes...I do not know or understand the rules behind the ages and stuff, however I do know that the rules are the rules and should be followed by all participants. An article was located and subsequently "disappeared" about one of those gymnasts, who according to that article is only 14 years old. I'll tell you something, backflips were much easier before my boobies grew in and my hips widened...there should be a level playing field for all participants...that playing field is called the "rules"--just follow 'em, ESPECIALLY if you're the host country!!!
 
I don't care if the girls who sang/mimed thought it was OK. It sends a message to the rest of the world that beauty is what will get you places.

and the thing with the fireworks they did because it would be hard to caputre it on film the way it was, and the hellicopter pilot would be put in grave danger. The sequence we saw on TV with the footprints did not really happen, it was computer made. They can use technology to make things work, but not create fake images. IMO.
 
Everyone is forgetting the fact that China has committed a logical fallacy in that they believe showing athletic prowess and presenting a nice olympics will legitimize them in the world. And they are very, very eager to do so. Why? If they win golds will their methods be justified?

"I'm going to show you how far I've come by breaking up families and throwing dissenters in prison! Look at how refreshingly Machiavellian I still am! Yeah, progress!"

Chinaphiles have popped up a lot in recent times. China's making bank now. That must make them progressive. The olympics are the most beautiful that they've ever been. This means they are the best country ever!

If you're judging decisions similar to this by watching NBC, I hope you enjoy your PRC approved coverage.
 
As usual, I agree with BSL...as far as the fireworks go, I do feel that technology is a valid tool to use in putting together a show like this...I think people are gripey about it because China thought of it first...I bet anyone here $100 that within 2 years, the Super Bowl fireworks will be likewise reliant on technological "props"...I don't have a problem with that at all.

I do think it was mean to hide the "ugly" girl and substitute the "pretty" girl...however, my guess is that it didn't bother the girls much at all--the singer probably didn't even realize that she was being dissed...if singing for a global audience qualifies as a "dis"...

I DO take issue with the underage athletes...I do not know or understand the rules behind the ages and stuff, however I do know that the rules are the rules and should be followed by all participants. An article was located and subsequently "disappeared" about one of those gymnasts, who according to that article is only 14 years old. I'll tell you something, backflips were much easier before my boobies grew in and my hips widened...there should be a level playing field for all participants...that playing field is called the "rules"--just follow 'em, ESPECIALLY if you're the host country!!!

And as usual, I agree with Greenhorn Gal :)

I read a big article in Newsweek about how China has a huge inferiority complex and feel as though they've suffered a lot of humiliation from their past. For them it's critically important to seem like they've really got there stuff together and are #1 Lucky-Best in the world.

We watch movies that are crazy-stupid loaded with CGI, we see commercials and advertisements with actors selected on account of their good looks. Let's not pretend we're any better....in the grand scheme of things, it falls into the category of 'whatever'.....just enjoy the stuff that you like. The performers in that opening ceremony were just incredible....in the ecletic words of Mr.T, I pity the fool-country that tries to follow that act! :D

Honestly, I'm more focused on some of these outfits the woman's gymnist and divers are wearing....gone are the days of simple flat-fabrics, I'm watching woman's gymnastics as I type this and the outfit on the American girl is just amazing! It's all shiny, sheen, sexy, high-cut....almost kinky: who needs Viagra! :D

Oh...here comes the Chinese gal. Sorry; can't get too excited over a 12 year-old.

What? Oh don't worry....I'll delete that last part before I click 'submit reply'

D'oh!
 
So everything from the opening date of 8/8/08 to the underage gymnasts has been superstitious and insecure posturing?

Who'd a thought?
 
Hey man.....pick-up just about any item in your home and tell me if it doesn't read "Made in China". Those Olympics are our dollars hard at work...if the Chinese wanna be weird about it, so be it. :D

Ironically, they know where they faked & fudged it and they'll presume the media and other sources exposed it all....in the end, like an insecure child, it'll eat 'em up just the same. My position remains: sit back & enjoy the lycra! :D
 
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