The ChillOut Log

Status
Not open for further replies.
I just paid for a week sample diet of Pauline Nordin's to she does. I will ask this....

I see this as very wise in the context you may just find something, that may be applicable to your specific circumstances.

Its like bobbing for apples. Sometimes you get it, and sometimes we do not. Nothing wrong, keep on rocking with seeking and searching.

Do you think I should eat the within a certain time of waking? I get up super early, 4:45 AM most mornings and it seems if I start then I will eat my last meal early and I will be STARVING.

I get very hungry at night- don't know if all mental or a combo of mental and physical but it is hardest at night. Got any ideas for combatting this? When do you have your last starch carb of the day if you have them and how many servings a day do you have of starch?

To be honest, I am deficient in knowledge of your entire training program, specific lifestyle, and placement/position of your cutting. Is it my understanding you are cutting for prep for a show, or are you just cutting in advance for more personal purposes? I apologize in advance for not specifically knowing.

Speaking in terms of "generalities" (notice emphasis), I personally believe breakfast is over rated and bloated in importance.

In my opinion, the body is to damn complicated to conclude that one meal (among the many that is eaten during the day) will inhibit/hurt/enhance progress--pointing most notably to breakfast. And, this is a rather bold statement to make on (on this forum anyway).

Some believe that multiple meals perform some metabolic magic or breakfast mysteriously jumps starts the metabolism It does NOT. What is important with these frequent meals, is whether it "assists" the person in feeling full, and prevent hunger (and binge eating, among other considerations), and if eating breakfast is among these meals (and it fits "timing wise", and assists to stave off hunger in the evening), then it should surely be included. Note, I am not addressing the content of these meals, however.

I have had complications with hunger in the evening as well. Or at least this is the seemingly the heightened point of the day. Most of the time, its is when most of my activities (work, and training) was conducted prior. Which to me makes sense. Therefore, I space out my meals (as much as possible) to include two evening meals. What seems to assist the most, is drinking water in the AM (first thing when I get up), and just blasting the water during the day, and watching my urine color. Hydration is one key element (among a complex mix) that can assist in leveling out your hunger pains, and dehydration (among a complex mix) can enhance it.

Hunger, is going to come sadly. No way around it when calorie deficient, and some cases (dependent) adjoined with side effects of manipulating macro nutrients. The best approach (to hunger-cutting, emphasis) is to keep your Insulin/blood sugar as stable as possible. And, in some cases, using extremely low or no calorie food/appropriate beverages (in line with your goal), to "bloat/fill the stomach" to send signals to the brain that you are full (when in fact you are not really).

Bottom Line: Adjust the placement of your meals to coincide with your complication in the evening. Point to the number of meals, and place one or two in the evening. If you have to move UP/DOWN the timing of breakfast in the AM, so be it. This assumes its not going to interfere with some timing aspects (if you have some). What is your fiber grams? What is its source? Add in, (appropriately) extremely low or no calorie food/appropriate beverages (in line with your goal), to "bloat/fill the stomach" to send signals to the brain that you are full (when in fact you are not really).

Is there a post within this log of your typical week diet? :) I would love to see that!

I am planning on starting a training log with Wes, which will address this. :)


Best wishes,

Chillen
 
Last edited:
I hate to keep clogging up this thread Chillen (i promise ill stop), but i came across a great blog thought everyone should see this guy. Hes really inspiring to me because hes just a normal guy that works his butt off in the gym. Hes a gym teacher from Norway.

I really like this kind of stuff for some reason and find that it motivates me to improve.

100 burpee pull ups:


Sandbag training


His blog incase anyone is interested in seeing more:
 
I hate to keep clogging up this thread Chillen (i promise ill stop), but i came across a great blog thought everyone should see this guy. Hes really inspiring to me because hes just a normal guy that works his butt off in the gym. Hes a gym teacher from Norway.

I really like this kind of stuff for some reason and find that it motivates me to improve.

100 burpee pull ups:


Sandbag training


His blog incase anyone is interested in seeing more:

Most posts that serves the primary purpose of this log (which points to enthusiasm, motivation, good will, educational (in the correct sense), and assisting one another for the common--good), will be more than welcome.

You can post along these lines, any time. Clog it up! :) :)

Your posts are most welcome........SO DON'T ASK AGAIN......or.....:violent2:

got that?

He, he.


best wishes

Chillen
 
Im sensing some hostility so i first want to say that what i said was meant to be taken in a friendly fashion and not meant to be rude or insulting.

I never said you wouldnt be more fatigued, but many people do 5X5 full body workouts and they seem to do ok. Most athletes and powerlifters do fullbody or half and half split workouts and a lot of the bodybuilders (for example Arnold and Mike Mentzer)gained most of their size this way. Chillen does an upper/lower split and he seems to be excelling. So I think its a copout to say that you will be so fatigued that you cant do other bodyparts. If you adjust for the extra frequency you will be surprised how fast your work capacity will increase.

Doing fullbody or half and half splits are much better at forcing the body to release serum testosterone, HGH and other horomones that cause the body to change and they make you work harder so you get in better all around shape.

Please dont take this personal as im just arguing the point. I couldnt really care less what routine you choose to use as thats up to you. If it works for you then by all means continue to use it.

No hostility, bro. Maybe just exasperation. I realize that I won't be too fatigued to do other body parts. However, the body parts that follow the first body part will not get the benefit of a fresh, 100% strong workout...get my meaning? If I did a killer set of bench and then went on to do rows or pulldowns, those sets for subsequent body parts would suffer somewhat and not get as intense a workout as my chest did. I'd rather do chest when I am completely rested, strong, and full of energy and I like to do my back the same way. That is why I split them up into different days.

Oh and as far as Arnold and Mentzer?? They cycled anabolics like they were going out of style, that's primarily how they built thier size. They could have done freakin' circuit training on Nautilus equipment and gotten huge with the amount and regularity of the gear they were using. So the routines they performed were secondary to the drugs they were shooting, as far as results go.

But again, I appreciate the advice. Honestly.
 
Last edited:
Thanks! I enjoy everyone's perspective and seeing what different people do. I still am finding out what works for me. Pauline's diet had some interesting and different foods I haven't used before and so I am happy about it. If it's going to work.... we shall see. I am trying it out.

:)
 
Thanks! I enjoy everyone's perspective and seeing what different people do.

Sound judgment and personal perspective.

I still am finding out what works for me.

My short three year trip into diet and fitness has taught me a lot, about my self, which led to what I am currently doing.

To severely summarize:

During the first year:

When I first started my weight loss and fitness quest (BF very high), all it basically took was a calorie deficiency to solicit weight loss. To me (at the time), this was a telling variable being over 40 years old. I varied (cycled) my calorie intake within 24 hour cycles (re-feeds, etc), and responded very well.

Point here is that I wasn't sensitive to any carbohydrate consumption, as long as a calorie deficit was present (brought on by diet--only, or manipulated through influencing exercise). It didn't matter.

Next half year:

Approaching about 10% BF, things flipped, and my world as defined in progress turned upside down. I was completely stubborn, and refused to manipulate the macro nutrients (because hey,,,dummy! :), what I have been doing has been working why won't it now, blah, blah, blah).

I fell in that rut for about 3 months. I began eating iron plates, I was so pissed off. I didn't come this far and work so hard.....to have a wall hit me upside the head, and make me bleed........No......it bleeds too. It is going to know I am around, I am all up in it and shiit. But,,,,,,,,,I have to know how to fight it. So I went on a education shopping spree, bringing in all the data I have kept on myself up to this point, and simply un-pissed myself.

I dabbled with a ketogenic diet with some success, going plainly 0 carbohydrates (but later learned going 0 carbohydrates is unnecessary for me). I set a pattern, of still cycling calories during this time, and eventually increased Carbohydrates to about 50g. Eventually, I toyed with routines with the purpose-focus being to deplete (completely) glucose stores. This is extremely summarizing, but what I did brought me to about 8% BF at the time.

Now there is a important point here. I learned I respond very strong to "cycling calories" deficits/surpluses. Additionally, I learned that I am not overally sensitive to carbohydrates, and respond very strong when the carbohydrate is manipulated (whether leaning down or trying to increase weight). With this personal history, I set a course on examining various ideas of Carbohydrate Cycling diets that adjoin a cycling of calorie deficit/surplus, because this agreed with my history.

Thus leading into what I did last year, and what I do now. I respond so well, and its surprises me to this day, especially nearing 48. Which basically means, I have some rather healthy biological processes going on for my age. Everything I do, is based on history, and dependent on this (and how long examining it and testing it), will depend on whether I change or not.

This is the extremely short version. I am wanting to keep this old wind bag under control.........> :)


Best wishes

Chillen
 
Last edited:
I got extremely busy at work yesterday, Russ. I will be posting a response today, I do apologize for the delay.

Next post will be yours, sorry about the length of time, brother.




Best wishes,

Chillen
 
I got extremely busy at work yesterday, Russ. I will be posting a response today, I do apologize for the delay.

Next post will be yours, sorry about the length of time, brother.




Best wishes,

Chillen

No problem at all. I look forward to any help you can provide.
I apologize for cluttering up your log bantering back and forth with Wes. Hope all is well with you today, I am currently choking back a can of tuna on whole wheat....I swear to God one day I'll grow gills and fins from the amount of tuna I eat...:eek:
 
No problem at all. I look forward to any help you can provide.
I apologize for cluttering up your log bantering back and forth with Wes. Hope all is well with you today, I am currently choking back a can of tuna on whole wheat....I swear to God one day I'll grow gills and fins from the amount of tuna I eat...:eek:

Russ,

Do you train at home or at a gym? If at home list the equipment, very specifically. If at a gym, specify whether its a jack of all trades, ya know, it has various DB weights (or sizes), Bench Press, Squat Rack (or a place you can squat), place where you can dead lift, perform body weight (with added plate weight) such as Pull-ups/Chin ups, Dips, etc, etc, etc (I think you get the idea). Also, tell me about their cardio equipment (or yours), etc.


After this, I am going to construct some dietary perimeters, based on your particulars, and correspond a training program, that is fundamentally and primarily focused on fat loss, and explain why I am approaching it this way with you--at your current physical position, and tie the things together from my posts, and some of the other posts you made in the COL.

I appreciate your patience. Work has been plastering my rear end today. I just pealed it off, and trained anyway, though I was a little mentally fatigued.

Best wishes,

Chillen
 
Last edited:
I train at home on a Bowflex PowerPro with 410 lbs of resistance. Let the flaming begin...But I worked out for years and years(actually decades) in a gym with free weights prior to this, and I am quite happy with the results using the Bowflex. I have a very funny story about the Bowflex that I'll share with you someday, but I won't waste any more bandwidth on this journal....yet. I have an old chinup bar in the cellar, that hasn't seen use in eons.

For cardio I have a mountain bike and sneakers.:D So it's running, walking or biking for me. I also have a yoga ball and a couple old jump ropes from my long gone days when I used to box. :boxing_smiley:

So, yes, this may be a challenge for you. I'm a guy that doesn't do squats or deads, and has no indoor cardio equipment. What I lack in cardio equipment, I make up for with determination and dedication. :animal3:

That's it. I bid you good luck on your mission.
 
No squats or deadlifts and a multi way split???

Do you even break a sweat??? :p

Kidding, but in all seriousness you have to know that these are the exercises that produce results and they should be the foundation of every routine imo. Is there a reason you dont do them???
 
Last edited:
No squats or deadlifts and a multi way split???

Do you even break a sweat??? :p

Kidding, but in all seriousness you have to know that these are the exercises that produce results and they should be the foundation of every routine imo. Is there a reason you dont do them???

Yes, I do break a sweat, I'll send you one of my t-shirts after a work-out for proof if you'd like..:eek:

And I understand the theory about squats and DLs...big compound movements..gets your whole body in the muscle building 'state of being' and all that jazz. Incorporates most of the muscle groups at once..yadda yadda yadda. I won't argue with the theory. I used to follow that advice and do those movements years ago.

Unfortunately when I was about 24 I was helping move an industrial refrigerator off a truck with another guy. The other fellow slipped, I ended up with the whole weight of the thing on me. I should have just bailed and dropped it, but I tried to stop it from crashing to the ground. I felt a twinge in my lower back. No biggee...I thought. Next morning I could not even swing my legs out of bed. I seriously thought I was paralyzed. Thank God I was not, but my L2 and L3 vertebrae were way the hell out of whack and the muscles in my lower back were f'd up to the point I needed crutches for quite a while and was in agony for about a full year as I went through rehab.

It is not something I care to re-live. I know with proper form, a belt, a couple spotters or maybe a Smith rack, I could avoid re-injuring it. It just is not worth the risk for me. I'd rather work 10X as hard without squats and DLs. Not being able to move your legs is quite an eye opener. Trust me.
 
Last edited:
I train at home on a Bowflex PowerPro with 410 lbs of resistance. Let the flaming begin...For cardio I have a mountain bike and sneakers.:D So it's running, walking or biking for me. I also have a yoga ball and a couple old jump ropes from my long gone days when I used to box. :boxing_smiley:

No flaming from me, Russ. We simply have to work with what we have to work with, when including your personal particulars, and bust the shiit up. :)

I am familiar with the Bow flex Power pro, a friend of mine has one that was given to him when a friend of his moved several months ago. Honestly, I prefer free weights, but there is more than one path to your specific goal, and what you have will work.

I would (if you can make room and fit it) dust off the pull-up/chin-up bar.

The program I am wanting to put together is a rather intense, Push/Pull, approach with "styled periodization in the rest between sets/rep/set scheme" (I will explain which later), which will include abe core objectives (with the understanding that deads/squats are eliminated due to the post you made to Wes, which is fine). It will be rather intense.

There will be one setup that will include running and/or walking (etc), and one without either of them. It will be your choice which one you choose; I do not share the opinion cardio is as critical--pointing to fat loss specifically, as most people think. At least...in the context most put the definition of cardio in, anyway.

I will also discuss calories and macros, eating habits, and types of food.

I have a very funny story about the Bowflex that I'll share with you someday, but I won't waste any more bandwidth on this journal....yet. I have an old chinup bar in the cellar, that hasn't seen use in eons.

Let er' rip! Laughing is cool! :) I think we all have done funny /stupid stuff in the gym, lol. I raise my hand rather high in admitting.

What I lack in cardio equipment, I make up for with determination and dedication. :animal3:

Cardio equipment isn't required for fat loss, and to get lean in areas we are speaking about.


Best wishes,

Chillen
 
Last edited:
Cool. This is gonna be fun, I can feel it.

I agree with you on the cardio. I use cardio more to keep my old ticker in shape than for fat loss. I lose weight pretty easily just doing resistance training.

Oh, and my stupid Bowflex story, is mostly for the non-believers:

I will NEVER forget the time about 5 years ago that I was at a summer pool party shooting the breeze with a bunch of folks when my sister in law asked me what gym I went to since I looked 'incredible' (her words not mine). I told her I didn't go to the gym, I just used my Bowflex. Then this 20 year old punk/wannabe muscle-head said "The Bowflex is junk, the only way to get REAL muscles is to use free weights at the gym." This kid's very hot girlfriend looked me up and down and then looked her boyfriend in the eyes and said "Hun, maybe YOU should get a Bowflex" :yelrotflmao:

One of the finer days of my life. Honestly.
 
Just got home from work,, geesh, what a friggen long day......

However.......I just need to reach inside, and find the human touch:


Aint gonna find no miracles here.......

I got a deal for this body for right here..
I aint looking for praise or pity...
I aint searching for a crutch....
I just want a little of that human touch..

Aint no mercy in this house tonight.
Aint nobody drawing wine from this blood.......
Its just me and the weights tonight.

You cant shut off the risk and the pain...
Without losing the love that remains for your goal...
Were all riders on this train

Its just me and the weights tonight.

Tired or not I train.

I will post a rather in-depth answer on Sunday, Russ. Been a tough day, off to train........

Hope all of you had a wonderful day, plant a smile on your face and enjoy life.


Best regards,

Chillen
 
Last edited:
I apologize, Russ, Work has been taking a lot of my time the passed couple of days; if I can get away tonight, I will post what I have for you. I have it partially completed, and just need to finish it up.

I should finish up this project at work today around 6PM or so (my time; Central time, US), and get home, around 7 or so.



Best wishes,

Chillen
 
Last edited:
I apologize, Russ, Work has been taking a lot of my time the passed couple of days; if I can get away tonight, I will post what I have for you. I have it partially completed, and just need to finish it up.

I should finish up this project at work today around 6PM or so (my time; Central time, US), and get home, around 7 or so.



Best wishes,

Chillen

Sounds Great. It'll give me something to read to take my mind off my terrible toothache. I get to have a root canal tomorrow. Yippee!! :bncry:
 
Sounds Great. It'll give me something to read to take my mind off my terrible toothache. I get to have a root canal tomorrow. Yippee!!


Before I begin this rather lengthy post, I want to address some credits. I just believe this to be respectable.

I owe a priceless amount to the various respectable persons whom have wrote books about different dietary approaches, and it is from these selected applications (and personal modifications to some of these applications) that I have been successful from applying enough of myself to get it done.

The educational foundation I am referring to are from hard books, E-books, etc, that I have purchased in the passed two years, and want to acknowledge the fine and respectable persons that wrote them: Lyle McDonald, Alan Aragon, and Alwyn Cosgrove.

Most what I am about to write will be based from memory, practical personal experience, but modified to you; I assume we may have to refine it some, and this is fine.

Based on your personal history (which we briefly touched upon in the previous posts), your current physique position, and approximated body fat percentage, this is the diet perimeters I purpose:

Warning: these perimeters may not sit well, with some viewers.

Answer: I do not care. I know from practical experience (modified to myself, of course, and history), it can work. I have done variations and modifications of it--when attempting to get extremely lean--, and I am as healthy as they come. No room for crying babies. :) :)

Shouldn't take you any more than 6 weeks, Russ, and you should be done. Approximately of course. Then on to maintenance on what you had earned.

This diet is a 7 day cyclic diet. The training that accompanies the diet, depends on the position point within the diet. This diet will have re-feeds implemented after glucose depletion.

I want to say up front this IS NOT a Ketogenic diet, far from it actually, though what takes place the first couple of days carry some biological properties close. Close count in horse shoes. :)

The training will be in two types and two parts:

1. High Rep (15-20), Very low rest periods (60-90 seconds), High sets (60% Max approximate) on low carbohydrate days (I suggest a split). You will want to locate where I live. (Note: I will be hiding).

Primary Purpose: To Deplete Glucose Stores.

2. High tension, heavy (power) on CarbohydrateUP days, etc.

EDIT: 3. Cardio is not required, though I highly recommend it due to the nature of the diet the first 3-4 days of the 7 day cycle.

(I will explain the workout, with your bowflex machine--cardio equipment next post)



The days can be adjusted to suite you, for work, and what not.

But below is an example you can work with:

Low-carbohydrate days (primary purpose, fat loss)

Monday-Glucose depletion Training (Part 1 of Split)

Tuesday-Glucose depletion Training (Part 2 of Split)

Wednesday (Off day on Training). Cardio option (30-60 minutes, highly recommended, Moderate intensity, if not too sore) (Drink several cups of coffee/Tea several hours before).

This can be the most difficult day, he, he, No weight training, hungry, and you see people as food and want to eat them---Trust me :) :)).

Carbohydrate targets can vary, but will be under 100 grams (somewhere around 20% or less of your total calorie intake). I say vary, because if you haven't dabbled in low-carbohydrates before, I would suggest the higher-end of low (say 90ish grams), and if you do not experience side-effects (NOT--counting training EMPHASIS), then you can adjust downward, but stay above 40, or settle around 50 grams. Consume your allotted Carbohydrates around your workouts.

The "source" of these Carbohydrates (since we are talking so small of an amount), isn't a--->a huge concern, Russ. Insulin is going to be rather low (over all), but I would suggest lower GI and high-fiber type of foods during this period. Of which I will give suggestions.

Protein 1g to 1.5g per pound of body weight--dependent on calorie allotment. Eggs, Chicken, Fish, lean red meat. If using protein powder casein/whey blend.

Put the remaining portion in Fats. Fats are low, Russ. I suggest DAG-OIL, Fish oil/Flax Oil, and NPB. Not much to dabble in, when you place the other nutrients, and this is necessary....contrary to popular opinion.

The main issues, is to eat (within the perimeters) that keep you full, which is going to be difficult. (GET OVER IT) :) Just look to your joyous re-feed/carbup days. Believe me, you will be amazed how much you can eat, if you deplete your glucose stores, and mainly gain water that was lost during the carbDOWN.

Calories on these three days, are primed for fat loss (because of your personal goal). So THESE THREE DAYS are VERY IMPORTANT for your fat loss, and is when you cut the calories the most--from your approximated Maintenance Line.

And, we are talking 50% from your MT-Line, quite frankly--on your training allotment of calories. Yes, you read that right. DO NOT go below 1200/1300 though. The reason is getting your macro-nutrient allotment will be difficult, not that the calories are low (man that should stir some shiit up! :)).

Spread your meals out in 3 to 4 meals. Calories are low, so going any higher, is unreasonable as it will simply make the meals too small.

Look back at the calculations made a few posts back. On training days, Calories are higher (as I said before), and non-training days such as on Wednesday, Calories are lower.

DO YOUR HOMEWORK ASSIGNMENT:
Configure your calorie-macro nutrient amounts and post them.


Late re-feed/Carbohydrate UP

Thursday

Cardio Session in AM as soon as practical, and STAY within the perimeters set forth IN Monday through Wednesday (during the day Thursday), until you do your training session--FULL BODY--HIGH Intensity. Here consume about 30 to 40 grams of Carbohydrates and at least 15 to 25 grams of Protein about an hour before your workout (heavy session). Also begin your CREATINE LOAD here (20 grams). Training is just 2 to 4 sets to finish off the glucose depletion (6-12, 70-85%).

When Completed, the eating fun begins. And, we attempt to compensate (now) for your glucose depletion anywhere from 24 to 48 hours by over-eating.

Post workout: 1g of carbohydrates per pound and 1/3 from protein (see below), and space out your meals, as you will be eating A LOT! :) :)

Assuming you are glucose depleted, about 5-7 grams of Carbohydrates per pound of body weight. DOUBLE your Maintenance-Line level. You will be (or should be) consuming more than 1,000 grams of Carbohydrates. Do NOT worry, the body is more concerned with replenishing glucose stores, and "partitioning" those calories where it is needed, and if you stay the perimeters you will be amazed at what this does to you (REALLY...its something else, I promise, ya). Drink plenty of water to assist the carboHYDRATES in replenishing your water retention (Cell hydration).

You could be looking at anywhere from 1000 to 1200 GRAMS OF CARBOHYDRATES, YOUNG FELLA.

Friday

Cardio: 30 to 60 minutes (steady state). Bridge Thursday into Friday and continue re-feed. No-workout.

Maintenance Calories

Saturday

Percents: 60c/25p/15f

30g/15g carb protein ratio before and after workout. Before workout at least one hour before or thereabouts. Full body workout (explained later)

Prepare next cycle

Sunday

No-Training. Cardio 30-60 minutes. Here cut calories from normal maintenance for a non-training day, but keep macro nutrients up to about 1g for Protein, cut carbohydrates a tad to about 150ish grams, and fill in the rest with fats.


I have done may variations of the above the second time I got extremely lean at 7.8%, (after the learning experience of the first time I got extremely lean), when bringing in my history into consideration, and it simply works.

When bulking to put on muscle and slow fat accumulation, I modify it even further, and I am currently in a extremely modified version right now.

I will post workouts, next.

First, I have to see if you have the balls (;), he, he) to try something like this, before I spend time on the WO.

I am going to look over the post, it is possible I may have left something out. If I did, I will simply (EDIT) it back in, and bold highlight it.


Best regards,

Chillen
 
Last edited:
March 4th, 2009: "Thoughts for the Day" (1)

What is Training Intensity?

(By Lyle McDonald: )

One of the longer standing arguments in the field of strength training has to do with the definition of intensity with various camps essentially defining intensity in their own way and everybody talking past one another when they have debates about it.

In my opinion, most of the arguments are simply an example of people using the same words to describe different concepts and I don’t see any real reason for there to only be a single definition of intensity that can be valuable in the weight room. In fact, by using various definitions, I think that training can be more accurately described.

Intensity of load

Arguably the first definition of intensity came from sports scientists and coaches (especially Olympic lifting coaches) trying to define and measure things relevant to them. In this case it meant defining intensity as the percentage of maximum load that was being used.

In this scheme, a 75% load (e.g. if you can use 100 lbs maximum and are lifting 75 pounds), is a lower intensity than a 95% load (you’re using 95 pounds of your 100 pound maximum).

The pros of this method are that it’s fairly easy to measure and makes concrete comparisons simpler: the guy lifting 95% of his maximum is working at a higher intensity than the guy lifting at 85% or 75% of maximum. This is especially true in research where it’s relatively easy to test someone’s maximum and then determine what percentage of maximum they are working at based on what weight is on the bar.

Unfortunately, only looking at the percentage of maximum tends to miss some crucial aspects of the training load. In both Olympic lifting and powerlifting, it’s not uncommon for lifters to perform a sub-maximal number of repetitions at a given load. That is, in theory, a load that is 85% of maximum will allow a lifter to get 5 repetitions although it will be pretty grindy at the end.

Many lifters, and this is especially true in Olympic lifting would be more likely to do repeat sets of doubles at that same 85% of maximum to ensure that technique and bar speed stay high; some powerlifters train this way as well.

It should be obvious that performing 2 repetitions at 85% of maximum and 5 repetitions at 85% of maximum are going to be a very different level of effort/difficulty even though the intensity of load is identical.

There is an additional problem in that true maximum strength can be variable on a day to day basis. Basing training around percentages can get misleading when what should be a 90% maximum load is actually lower or higher due to changes in fitness or fatigue state.

Which brings me to the second most common definition of intensity.

Intensity of effort

Groups that are usually associated with the HIT (high intensity of training) theory tend to define intensity in their own way which has to do with relative closeness to failure or simply the effort expended during the set. You might simply look at this definition of intensity in terms of ‘difficultly’. The harder the set is to complete, the higher the intensity and vice versa.

A set taken to the point of concentric failure is generally defined as 100% intensity and while individuals in this camp usually argue that anything less than 100% intensity can’t be reliably measured, others will use methods like rating of perceived exertion (RPE) or simply reps short of failure to gauge intensity of effort.

Clearly an all out set to the lifter’s absolute limits would be 100% intensity and an RPE of 10 (on a 10 point scale) with no reps left to failure. A lifter who stopped 1 rep short of true failure might be at an RPE of 9 and 90% of maximum intensity, a set done at an RPE of 8 might leave the lifter with 2-4 reps short of failure, etc.

I’d note that knowing how close one is to failure often necessitates a period of training where true failure is achieved. With practice, most lifters will know if they had one or two or four more repetitions in the tank. Beginners who have no conception of what true muscular failure is will not. I’d also mention that a good coach can usually tell by watching things like bar speed and effort how close a lifter is to failure; again this takes some practice and experience to do well.

Complicating things even more we might examine the issue of speed work as often done by athletes and powerlifters. Typically a load of 30-60% of maximum (low intensity of load) might be lifted for very sub maximal numbers of repetitions. But the focus on lifting the weight as fast as possible/pushing as hard as possible might actually make the intensity of effort quite high.

A Mid-Article Summary


Frankly, with only the two above definitions of intensity, intensity of load and intensity of effort, I think that training can be more accurately described than with either one alone. So while a set of 12 to failure might only be a 75% load intensity but 100% effort intensity (RPE of 10), a set of 2-3 at 85% of maximum might be an 85% load intensity but only a 50-60% effort intensity (RPE of 6-8).

In this vein, I’d note that a recent book by IPF powerlifter Mike Tuscherer called The Reactive Training Manual has a lot of very good information on the above approach to training, using RPE, fatigue cutoffs, etc. to autoregulate powerlifting training. Anyone interested in the topic would be recommended to pick up a copy.

Other Aspects of Intensity


Of course, I also think that other definitions of intensity can be useful or at least descriptive in looking at training. Nobody would argue that both a 1 repetition max (100% load intensity/100% effort intensity) and a 20 rep set of squats (perhaps 70% load intensity but 100% effort intensity) are intense but they tend to be intense in a different way. A set of 8 to 1 rep short of failure on the bench press (80% load intensity, 90% effort intensity) might also be intense but in a different way than either of the other two examples.

Given the general belief that training can have varying effects on either neural, muscular or metabolic effects of intensity, I don’t see it as too far fetched to look at training in terms of the neural, muscular or metabolic intensity. So sets of 1-3 are going to be more neurally intense than sets of 6-10 (more muscularly intensive) and sets of 20 or more might be primarily metabolically intensive (although the muscular effort is often still quite high).

For completeness, and having watched too many bodybuilders train, I might even go so far as to suggest another definition of intense in terms of focus and concentration. It’s not uncommon to watch bodybuilders using what are apparently fairly light loads focusing extremely intensely on every repetition, using slow movement speed and attempting to generate maximal muscular tension during all aspects of the movement. While the intensity of load may actually be fairly low, the intensity of effort (and concentration) certainly are both high. While impossible to quantify, I see that as certainly another potentially useful definition of intensity here.

Summing Up

Invariably when I see arguments about training intensity, the problem is usually that people are talking across each other, using different definitions that each thinks is the only correct definition. Rather, I think a more useful approach is to recognize that intensity in training can have different meanings all of which can have utility or value at different time points.

Alternately, as mentioned above, there are clearly cases where taking different definitions into account at the same time may give more valuable information about training than focusing on one or the other.


Enjoy!

=========================================================

Be happy and passionate toward your fitness goals. It's one way of being wise.

If you realized how powerful your thoughts are, you would never think a negative thought.

=========================================================


Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.

Give help on the forum where needed. Be a passionate listener.

Give the gift of caring advice and assistance.


Best wishes

Chillen
 
[

Be happy and passionate toward your fitness goals. It's one way of being wise.

If you realized how powerful your thoughts are, you would never think a negative thought.

=========================================================


Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.

Give help on the forum where needed. Be a passionate listener.

Give the gift of caring advice and assistance.


Best wishes

Chillen

Great stuff Chillen. :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top