Roman Polanski

[Jason Salamone]

Look dude, sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you personally, you're not the rapist here and you were just saying what you really believe and even though I disagree with you I still admire that a lot.

If there were one thing I wish I could convince you of though, it's that rape is not less severe if there was a physical attack. It fact it's often worse if there isn't as the rapist is then left with a feeling of guilt for not doing more to prevent it and a self hatred for allowing it to happen. This can often lead to suicide.

I don't blame you for seeing things the way you do though, what you're saying sounds logical, but the damage of rape is about 5% physical and 95% emotional.

No problem. I understand how this can be an emotional thing to talk about.
I think it depend on the person. I think that different people react differently and handle things differently from one another with the different degrees of rape that exist.

I'm kind of speaking from my own perspective I guess, and I don't mind talking about it, but I'm a guy who was molested a bunch of times by my female babysitter when I was 4 or 5 years old. She was in her late teens early 20s. Because of this and I couldn't figure out why for many years, I had serious trust issues and emotional issues when it came to women all the way up through my 20s. My relationships never lasted long, because my trust issues put me in a constant state of apathy. Thankfully, this is no longer the case, but it took me several years to figure this out and turn things around.

And I just know in my heart that if she physically hurt me in a violent manner while she was molestating me, that my trust issues with women would have run much much deeper than they did, and I also would still be these having trust issues with women even today.

Jason Salamone

 

[Typhon]

Sorry to hear about that JS, it's way more common than most people dare to imagine. I was going to say earlier that I bet you know at least 4 or 5 women that have been raped that haven't told you but it seems you already know how common these type of offenses are.

Maybe you're right and people respond differently, but it certainly isn't always the case that physical pain makes the offence any more traumatic

Just out of curiosity, did you report it once you realised what happend to you?

 

[Jason Salamone]

Sorry to hear about that JS, it's way more common than most people dare to imagine. I was going to say earlier that I bet you know at least 4 or 5 women that have been raped that haven't told you but it seems you already know how common these type of offenses are.

Maybe you're right and people respond differently, but it certainly isn't always the case that physical pain makes the offence any more traumatic

Just out of curiosity, did you report it once you realised what happend to you?

I know a girl that started chatting with a somewhat famous rapper on Myspace when she was 15, and just before she turned 16, he was playing a gig in her city, so she snuck out of her house, got into a cab, met him in his hotel room, and they had sex. He knew of her age (that she was underage) since they started chatting online, but obviously both of them didn't care. She seemed to know what she was doing and what she was doing was wrong, but she did it anyways. She was caught up in his fame and rapper status if you will, and he went along with it taking full advantage of the situation. At the time this rapper had sex with this 15 year old girl, he was also in a committed relationship with another woman who he is now married to, and I think they also have a child together. If she only knew what her man did just 2-3 years ago.

That same night after she had sex with him, her parent's caught her, but decided not to press charges, because of the added stress that may cause...was their reasoning. Stupid ignorant parents. It was statutory rape, and he should of gone to jail. Till this day I don't think she understand how much of a scumbag and messed up person he is for having sex with her, whether she was willing or not.

She seems to be fine now. She's over 18 and realizes it was a mistake on her part, that what she did was put herself in a risky situation that could of turned out different than what it did. Though I believe she has some issues like for example sometimes I think that she shows some signs of Borderline Personality Disorder, but she is fine overall. She is living life normally, emotionally stable, and happy overall.

Now if that rapper did something like beat her or ganged up on her with his crew, I have a feeling she would be in much worse shape emotionally and mentally right now.

Jason Salamone

 

[Typhon]

Well, that girl gave consent even if she was too young to legally give it.

The Polanski girl didn't give consent and repeatedly said no so there's really no comparison between the two.

 

[Jason Salamone]

Just out of curiosity, did you report it once you realised what happend to you?

Looking back, it's very surreal. Here's what happened...

One of the times my babysitter had me in the bathroom, her brother walked in and saw it. Because I was the male in the situation (for some reason they didn't consider that I was only 4-5 years old), that I was the one doing wrong. So her brother told my parents when they came to pick me up, and my parents then proceeded to lecture me about how that was wrong, and that I shouldn't be doing that. Remember I was only 4-5 years old and my female babysitter was late teens early 20s. Well because I was the male and she was female, people are just stupid and always blindly buy into the double standard that females automatically are not or can not be the wrong doers, simply because they are females. The misconception that all females by nature are nurturing, so they can't possibly be doing any harm even when they are acting out sexually with a child. This f'ed up thought process and double standard seems to still be prominent today in our society. South Park did an episode about this double standard, and they hit the nail on the head.

I hope that answers your question as to why it was never reported...
2 words...DOUBLE STANDARD...one that shouldn't be accepted, but so very much is.
And I was 4-5 years old, so I had avsolutely no control over the situation.

Jason Salamone

 

[Jason Salamone]

Well, that girl gave consent even if she was too young to legally give it.

The Polanski girl didn't give consent and repeatedly said no so there's really no comparison between the two.

She consented...in a sense...yes, but in many ways, she didn't. She was impressionable, his fame was a great persuader. Regardless, it's still statutory rape. She was 15, and he was at least 28..an adult...It 100% completely up to him to NOT message underage girls on myspace in the first place, and to also NOT go through with their plans of meeting each other and having sex. Instead, he took advantage of a situation.

So shouldn't the punishment be the same by your definition?
I mean you said it yourself that rape is rape.


Jason Salamone

 

[Typhon]

Consent yes, but it's still statutory rape. He took advantage of a situation.
It was up to him 100% to put a stop to it, and to not go through with them meeting and having sex, because he was the adult and she was only 15 which is still a child.
So shouldn't the punishment be the same?
I mean you said it yourself that rape is rape.


Jason Salamone

Consentual sex with a girl of 15 isn't rape, not over here at least, it's termed sex with a minor because the girl is old enough to have legal responsibilty for her actions.

What he did was still wrong but she knew what she was doing and was OK with it.

If you look at Polanski's charge sheet one of the charges was sex with a girl under 14 so I imagine that the US has the same legal clasification as the UK

 

[Jason Salamone]

Consentual sex with a girl of 15 isn't rape, not over here at least, it's termed sex with a minor because the girl is old enough to have legal responsibilty for her actions.

What he did was still wrong but she knew what she was doing and was OK with it.

If you look at Polanski's charge sheet one of the charges was sex with a girl under 14 so I imagine that the US has the same legal clasification as the UK

Sex with a minor (under the age of 18) where both parties consented in the state that they (the girl I knew and this rapper) were in when it happened is by law considered Statutory Rape.

A 15 year old (still a child) isn't old enough to have legal responsibility for her actions when it comes to that in my opinion. At least not with someone that much older than her. But then again, Traci Lords back in the day knew exactly what she was doing, so I guess it depends on the person

Jason Salamone

 

[Typhon]

Sex with a minor (under the age of 18) where both parties consented under in the state that they were in when it happened is Statutory Rape. A 15 year old isn't old enough to have legal responsibility for her actions when it comes to that in my opinion. At least not with someone that much older than her.

Jason Salamone

Yeah, laws vary of course depending on where you live. Polanski was charged with having sex with a girl under 14 though which makes me think that in the state he was in there was a legal distinction between having sex with someone underage and some one too young to fully understand what they were doing

But still, I think we're splitting hairs here as Polanski didn't have consentual sex, that's a myth, he intimidated a girl into having sex. If she'd been 13 or 31 it would have still been rape. That's was what I meant by saying rape is rape, whether physical force or intimidation is applied it's still rape, and if a woman says no then anything after that point is also rape and all should carry the same weight when sentencing.

Polanski shouldn't be allowed to continue living, simple as that, he's a child abusing rapist and deserves to die

 

[Big_Idiot]

Crazyyy sh1t. That c*nt does deserve to die painfuly & slowly.

I remember a few years back there was this 13 year old slag who was shagging a 23 year old. Now that's sick sh1t.

 

[Typhon]

Crazyyy sh1t. That c*nt does deserve to die painfuly & slowly.

I remember a few years back there was this 13 year old slag who was shagging a 23 year old. Now that's sick sh1t.

Haha, I hope you checked for ID in slagaluf Tom

 

[johnny83]

That was a great post Jason

And Johnny, I also know women that this happened to as kids, three of them in fact, and none of them have ever testified. One reported it but the police didn't beleive it (the attacked later confessed in a letter but by that time the victim didn't want to talk about it anymore). One of them still sees the person every year at Christmas as it was an uncle that raped her, he acts like nothing happend and she doesn't want to re-live the experience and is worried that her family won't believe her.

The woman in the Polanski case may well want this to go away as it was such a long time ago that her memory will be a little fuzzy and she'll be ripped apart under cross-examination and made to look like a liar. If she has kids then it'll also be hard on them to hear about her testimony in court

Wow, this thread is has hit epic levels in terms of deepness. Alot has been said since I logged off last night and I give everyone on here credit for tellin some of their own experiences aside from Polanskum. Especially you Jason, damn man, you got my respect.

Typh and the rest of you will get a feeling of justice out of what im about to say. In the situation that I spoke of earlier, it was a father that commited the crime on his own child. Now, when he was found out, he plead guilty on his own accord and was sentenced to 36 yrs. Then, with the help and advice of his lawyer, they were able to appeal his original plea. They thought they could get him off the hook with even lesser time going before a jury. Well they appealed and had a jury trial as if he had never plead guilty, so they went to court and then was found guilty by that same jury, and sentenced to life. So he went from 36 yrs to life. Justice was served to the fullest extent. Now the tough part is,the guy who commited these crimes brother is one of my best friends and i see how bad its messed my friend up mentally and the repercussions is has on everyone. Its just sad, if you sit and think about it, what the f**k goes thru these sickos minds ? Is it an illness? demon possesion? i often wonder but am sure there will never be an answer.

 

[oicdn]

Read her testimony in court, I think you'll find it was 'rape-rape', she was scared of him and had asked him to let her go home many, many time and also asked him not to have sex with her.

As for it being evenually consentual, I think you'll find that's a myth. Read the testimony, at no point does she say anything about consent and claims that she struggled the whole time and then left and started crying. I think people need to get over the whole 'if she wasn't pinned down then it wasn't rape' bollocks. She was a young girl intimidated into allowing this to happen despite saying no repeatedly. No means no and anything after that is rape

As for drunk, if you want to read the full testimony, she says that she was pretty drunk as he had her drinking Champagne in all the photos he took of her. She also said that she took the tablet Polanski gave her because she was drunk and wouldn't have taken it otherwise

Ahh, thanks for that. I was looking for the entire testimony but couldn't find it earlier this week. Any credibility to that testimony on smoking gun (source?), i.e. how are we sure that's the actual one?

In any case, I retort the statements I made. That's just completely horrible. I just heard recordings of her testimony in sections, I didn't read the entire thing.

Although I do not believe there are degrees of rape (rape is infact rape), I do however believe there needs to be a clarification in most cases. i.e. like the the 3 Jason pointed out.

I know of TWO people who have gotten screwed over by statutory rape laws, when the girl even in testimony said it was 100% consensual without any sort of convincing (one of them even came on to the adult!), but because she's under age it "doesn't matter". Both of them didn't check IDs, but in both instances, the girls were in clubs that were 18+ or 21+. 2 people are now convicted sexual offenders and have to register over some nonsense law.

 

[johnny83]

Ahh, thanks for that. I was looking for the entire testimony but couldn't find it earlier this week. Any credibility to that testimony on smoking gun (source?), i.e. how are we sure that's the actual one?

In any case, I retort the statements I made. That's just completely horrible. I just heard recordings of her testimony in sections, I didn't read the entire thing.

Although I do not believe there are degrees of rape (rape is infact rape), I do however believe there needs to be a clarification in most cases. i.e. like the the 3 Jason pointed out.

I know of TWO people who have gotten screwed over by statutory rape laws, when the girl even in testimony said it was 100% consensual without any sort of convincing (one of them even came on to the adult!), but because she's under age it "doesn't matter". Both of them didn't check IDs, but in both instances, the girls were in clubs that were 18+ or 21+. 2 people are now convicted sexual offenders and have to register over some nonsense law.

You got a good point there oicdn, ive heard similar cases before like the ones you speak of.

So, to all you single guys out there tryin to pick up chicks at the clubs. Act like a bartender and get some kinda I.D.'s cause just like oic said, your can quickly become a sex offender for a crime you didnt even know you were commiting. Especially when theres alcohol involved and your good senses start to fade.
Some words of wisdom from a married guy...

 

[Typhon]

Both of them didn't check IDs, but in both instances, the girls were in clubs that were 18+ or 21+.

Wasn't that the defence Akon used when he tried to say the bouncers were more guilty than him

With regards to the consentual statutory rape issue, I agree there's a grey area when one party is under age but looks older. The younger one can also be the one that initiates a sexual encounter so you just hope that a judge can employ a little common sense.

With the Polanski case though, he knew her age, he knew her family and had sex with her against her will so it's pretty clean cut.

 

[Jason Salamone]

Typhoon you say that the girl with Roman Polanski didn't consent and was 13 isn't as bad in comparison to the girl I know who consented to have sex at age 15 with the 28 year old rapper I mentioned. This seems to contradict your "rape is rape" statement.

13 and 15 are pretty much one in the same...they are both emotional and mentally still a child at either one of those ages, so there is no such thing as the idea of consent in neither situation. Both Polanski and the rapper I know off had a much greater moral and ethical responsibility to uphold, but instead they chose to use their fame and status to manipulate and take advantage of the situation and circumstance of an impressionable child. These two incidents are one in the same. Therefore, Polanski and the rapper should be treated with the same harsh punishment.

Jason Salamone

 

[Jason Salamone]

This may seem to be off on a tangent, but I think that the duble standard that exists when it comes to this issue is part of the problem too...

I saw an interview online of Courtnery Cox, she was promoting her new TV show cougar town. Well one of the questions that was asked to her was, "If she had a chance to be acougar in real life, what much younger celebrity male would she like to be with?" Her answer was Zac Effron who even though is 22, Cox admitted that she thought that he was only 16 or 17 when she made that statement. Now if male Courtney Cox's age said he would like to be with a celebrity girl like Miley Cyrus just as an example who was around age 16 or 17 all hell would break lose and he would be chastised, and called a scumbag for making such a comment. But nobody blinks at that when it comes from a female, especially an attractive one, right?

What about how people wnt crazy when Hulk Hogan was rubbing lotion on his daughter's inner thighs and near her ass. I agree that was disturbing, and he shouldn't be doing that. Well how come people went crazy about that, but nobody went crazy when on one of those Kardasian sister episodes, were one of the sisters was laying stomach down on the couch and the other sister was straddling her, lifted up her skirt, and then started pulling on her own sister's panties and smacking and touching her own sister's ass! But again, nobody blinks at that, even though that is just as messed up.

We need to stop just thinking of and referring to these heinous acts as just being between an older man and a younger woman. There are many many more instances and examples of the female predator or pedophile that exist out there that take advantage of both underage boys and girls that we know of or care to believe, and it shouldn't be treated as any different, because the emotional and mental consequences of their actions are just as bad and harmful.

As far as a minor lying about their age and being deceptive, I think the older person has the obligation to do whatever he needs to do to find out the real age of the younger person, especially when he meets the younger person at certain places such as clubs concerts, the beach, the mall, college parties etc...basically places that you would more commonly find persons of a young age group.



Jason Salamone

 

[Typhon]

15 most certainly isn't the same as 13, many 15 year olds have regular sex lives and seem fully capable of dealing with the emotional issues, others might only just be entering puberty

The age at which someone knows their own mind and should have control over their sexual encounters is a completely different issue.

Polanski forced a girl into having sex, the rapper had sex with a 15y/o who may very well be mentally mature beond her years. 15 is legal in some countries so does it make it right in those and not in yours?

Whatever the legal age should be probably varies from person to person, in the US you play it very safe and set the bar high but no matter what country you're from forcing someone into sex is rape, whether the woman was physically overpowered or not

 

[Jason Salamone]

15 most certainly isn't the same as 13, many 15 year olds have regular sex lives and seem fully capable of dealing with the emotional issues, others might only just be entering puberty

The age at which someone knows their own mind and should have control over their sexual encounters is a completely different issue.

Polanski forced a girl into having sex, the rapper had sex with a 15y/o who may very well be mentally mature beyond her years. 15 is legal in some countries, so does it make it right in those and not in yours?

Whatever the legal age should be probably varies from person to person, in the US you play it very safe and set the bar high but no matter what country you're from forcing someone into sex is rape, whether the woman was physically overpowered or not

15 year olds and 13 year olds should be treated the same as far as being just as incapable of dealing with emotional issues that have to do with sexual activity. It's too risky not to. It doesn't matter how sexually active one is compared to the other, because both of them are still just a child. I realize there are exceptions to every rule, but in my experience, the age of 16 seems to be a much safer age to make the general assumption that the person (male or female) is mature enough to have a more comprehensive and holistic understanding of the consequences of having sex. I look back at myself a that age and just about everybody I knew or talked to in my life that were 15 to 16, and there always seem to be a massive jump in emotional and mental maturity between the age of 15 and 16, more so than any other age in the teen years. So 1in my opinion, 16 and over is the only instance anybody could argue or make a case for consent. But when it comes to any person under the age of 16, there is simply no such thing as consent, even when the the person who is under that age stands up to the judge and defends the other older person's actions by admitting that they consented.

I realize that there are variations to what I believe should be and the laws themselves, but I'm just expressing my opinion here, and what I believe how it should be.

Jason Salamone

 

[Jason Salamone]

Ok what do you guys think of this scenario...

Guy in his 30s meets a 16 year old girl. Well she and this 30 some year old guy start talking and to their surprise they click fairly well where they actually do have enough things in common to have great and meaningful conversations. So based on that, they quickly become close friends and continue to talk to each other on a regular basis for the next 2-3 years. And during those years, nobody touches anybody, it was strictly platonic, and nothing physical or sexual happens between the two. He basically exercises complete restriant, shows her as much respect as possible, and waits for her for at least those entire 2 years until she at least turns 18. Then just months after she finally turns 18, they start dating.

What do you think of this scenerio in general?
And what would would think of this scenerio if you were this particular girl's father?

Jason Salamone