Roman Polanski

[johnny83]

You're right, but I have a hundred other things to worry about than some guy who raped some girl 30 some years ago and resides on the other end of the country. This is beyond my realm of control.

So obviously the rape of a 13 year old holds no bearing to you. The topic is not just this specific case, but Typhons topic in general and what the repercussions to the scum that get away with ***** should be. Yes it is out of your realm so go and delete your post and go about your hundred other worries.
Other than that, all is good, I enjoy readin your posts most of the time.

 

[johnny83]

Did he make that movie Clueless? Cause that's what I am about this whole matter.

Actually dallen im gonna man up here, I have a friend who has a family member, which is a child, which is now like family to me, that has gone through this type of thing. So it strikes a bad chord in me when even the slightest joke is made.
In short I apologize for goin off.

 

[Dallen]

I apologize too for seeming insensitive. I mean I guess what I'm getting at is I don't really know what to do in this case. If I did, I'd do it. But unfortunately, this is how things work. I'm sorry about your friend, and hopefully something will be done. It's no joke for a child to get raped, but all we can really do is protect the ones we love, and while none of us wish it on another child, there is little we can do as people with all the injustice in this world.

However, for this particular case, I really don't know all the facts. I mean if he did rape a child, then that's shameful. However, I think his punishment will be due in time. I mean to look at other big people who got away, they all got what was due to them. A recent example is OJ and how he got something like 12 years or some such (I don't even know if they actually sentence him yet). So while we might not do anything as a person, I think you reap what you sow.

 

[johnny83]

I apologize too for seeming insensitive. I mean I guess what I'm getting at is I don't really know what to do in this case. If I did, I'd do it. But unfortunately, this is how things work. I'm sorry about your friend, and hopefully something will be done. It's no joke for a child to get raped, but all we can really do is protect the ones we love, and while none of us wish it on another child, there is little we can do as people with all the injustice in this world.

Thanks for understandin where in comin from dall. Your right, the injustice is sickening !!!
In the case that I speak of, the dudes in jail for life so thats good knowin that hes probably gettin what he gave.

 

[johnny83]

I apologize too for seeming insensitive. I mean I guess what I'm getting at is I don't really know what to do in this case. If I did, I'd do it. But unfortunately, this is how things work. I'm sorry about your friend, and hopefully something will be done. It's no joke for a child to get raped, but all we can really do is protect the ones we love, and while none of us wish it on another child, there is little we can do as people with all the injustice in this world.

However, for this particular case, I really don't know all the facts. I mean if he did rape a child, then that's shameful. However, I think his punishment will be due in time. I mean to look at other big people who got away, they all got what was due to them. A recent example is OJ and how he got something like 12 years or some such (I don't even know if they actually sentence him yet). So while we might not do anything as a person, I think you reap what you sow.

Ha, man if you read the page before this, i typed what you just typed about OJ.

 

[oicdn]

This was on the radio a TON and they played her testimony several times. I think the more people talk about it, the more the whole thing gets skewed.

For example, it was consensual. She said in her testimony that although she did say no a couple times, she did consent to it all in the end. Granted she was drugged (not nearly as bad as it was made out to be, even in her own words) and slightly drunk, people make it seem like she was passed out unconscious.

And the comment Whoopi made is ALWAYS taken out of context. Is it rape? Well, technically, yes. She was a minor and it's statutory, but was she tied down and forcefully raped? No. THAT is the context Whoopi had it in in terms of "rape-rape", and she even said so the next day as it was often misconstrued as such. That she WASN'T held down and "rape" raped.

Also, he did serve time in jail, something like 45 days, but fled the country once out on bond in fear that the Judge would renig on everything. People are saying he served NONE. Not true. He did. Nothing compared to what he SHOULD have spent, but he did serve time.

That all said, I don't think the guy should even be alive and there shouldn't even be any controversy. Trash like him makes me wish in certain cases, murder were legal. Ignorant a statement as that is, but anybody who is of that age who feels the need to play with children is garbage and needs to be thrown in the dumpster with the rest of my trash. regardless of what they've achieved or have done for the world, fact is, you played with a child. You're sick in the head. It's no wonder all his movies were garbage.

 

[Jason Salamone]

I'm not saying this as a justfication, but only as a statement to remind you all that these freakin' stars and celebrities have always been getting treated differently, and are able to get away with a lot of crazy-ass ****. It's always been that way, and not too much has changed....

The band members of The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, and Van Halen (these are just 3 of many examples I'm sure) use to bang underage girls that were in there early teens all the time back in the prime of their careers.

Steven Tyler of Aerosmith was in a "relationship" with a 14 year old girl when he was 29-30 years old himself, and actually convinced her parents to sign over legal guardianship to him temporarily, so she could spend a whole year on tour with him.

MacKenzie Philips just breaks out this news about her and her father having "consensual" incestuous sex on and off for 10 years. You can bet all your asses that incestuous behavior and acts DO occur more in the world of celebrities than with any other class of people, even more so than your average backwood redneck hillbilly in Arkansas. I would bet my life that Mackenzie Phillips incest story is more common than we think or like to believe in the celebrity world. It's a world full of narcissism, which is typically a very prominent trait and characteristic of people who are into the whole disgusting incest thing. When you have people around you all the time calling you a musical genius, worshipping you, and do everything for you, it's easy for them to quickly develop a high level of narcissism along with an unhealthy ego.

And if we trust our instincts, we all know that Michael Jackson was responsible for some kind of inappropriate behavior. He may have not done everything he was accused of, but he did enough that was obviously inappropriate. Otherwise, he wouldn't of gone through all that, not once but twice! But look how much his ass was kissed at the VMAs, and especially by Madonna. The Jackson family has a lot of power and pull in the music industry. Janet Jackson loved Madonna's ass kissing speech about her brother so much that now they're both supposed to collaborate and eventually release some music together, and there's going to be a lot of money to be made on whatever they release I'm sure.

The world of celebrities is all about ass kissing to the utmost extreme. They kiss each other's asses big time, because they know that one bridge burned could potentially destroy their career in an instant.

My point is that nobody should be above the law and get away with **** like that, but unfortunately they do all the time. In the world of celebrity, it is a common every day thing...to some extent or another, most of them are pedophiles, rapists, guilty of incest, having somebody killed or hurt, manipulation and manipulation through blackmail and/or editing, extortion, drugs, etc, etc, etc...you name it, and all for the price of fame and money.

It's a sad state of affairs and unfortunate, but both celebrities and regular people alike continue to worship these celebrities over and above their talents by using those same talents as an excuse to worship them with this GOD-like status...it's SO ridiculous. Again, NOBODY should be above the law, but many celebrities are unfortunately treated as such. If the papparazi were able to get being the real closed doors of most of these celebrities, they would uncover a lot of sick ****.

Jason Salamone

 

[LeiYunFat]

Jason hit the nail on the head.

I would just like to say: as usual, **** what the hollywood elite say-- this guy needs to be locked up.

 

[Typhon]

That was a great post Jason

And Johnny, I also know women that this happened to as kids, three of them in fact, and none of them have ever testified. One reported it but the police didn't beleive it (the attacked later confessed in a letter but by that time the victim didn't want to talk about it anymore). One of them still sees the person every year at Christmas as it was an uncle that raped her, he acts like nothing happend and she doesn't want to re-live the experience and is worried that her family won't believe her.

The woman in the Polanski case may well want this to go away as it was such a long time ago that her memory will be a little fuzzy and she'll be ripped apart under cross-examination and made to look like a liar. If she has kids then it'll also be hard on them to hear about her testimony in court

 

[Typhon]

And the comment Whoopi made is ALWAYS taken out of context. Is it rape? Well, technically, yes. She was a minor and it's statutory, but was she tied down and forcefully raped? No. THAT is the context Whoopi had it in in terms of "rape-rape", and she even said so the next day as it was often misconstrued as such. That she WASN'T held down and "rape" raped.
.

Read her testimony in court, I think you'll find it was 'rape-rape', she was scared of him and had asked him to let her go home many, many time and also asked him not to have sex with her.

As for it being evenually consentual, I think you'll find that's a myth. Read the testimony, at no point does she say anything about consent and claims that she struggled the whole time and then left and started crying. I think people need to get over the whole 'if she wasn't pinned down then it wasn't rape' bollocks. She was a young girl intimidated into allowing this to happen despite saying no repeatedly. No means no and anything after that is rape

As for drunk, if you want to read the full testimony, she says that she was pretty drunk as he had her drinking Champagne in all the photos he took of her. She also said that she took the tablet Polanski gave her because she was drunk and wouldn't have taken it otherwise

 

[Jason Salamone]

I don't think anybody can argue "consent" when somebody is under 16 regardless of the circumstances or regardless of whether or not alcohol or drugs were involved the existence of alcohol or drugs does make it worse though), because 16 is the age where generally most people know what's going on as well as the consequences of other people and also their own actions. But even so, 18 is the age of consent, which means if a person isn't 18, you simply just don't get involved with them physically in any way, shape, or form whatsoever. If you do, then time to pay the piper, and the punishment should fit the crime.

There are 3 levels of rape that we are trying to distinguish between one another here, and maybe I can help...

Statutory rape where both parties consent- where the minor was actually 100% willing and in some cases initiates or is the aggressor of the sexual activity. Though I do have a hard time believing that any person under the age 16 has the mental and emotional maturity to be 100% willing, and therefore isn't being coerced or manipulated in some way. But with person's 16 and over, I think you can make a case for consent. Still, both people involved should be held accountable and responsible for their actions in this situation. For instance, send the older person to jail, and send the minor to juvey. Also require therapy, and community service. And hold the the parents accountable with a fine, community service, and also require the parents to go through counseling too for not raising their childen with good values and a sense of exercising better judgment. It's one thing to be rebellious, but if a minor is aggressively seeking out sexual encounters with much much older persons, then I think the parents and their child both need to be held accountable in some way.

Coerced statutory rape- Use of alcohol, fame, money, etc to manipulate the minor to sexual activity.
This is what Roman Polanski did to that girl, and also a famous rapper I know of did with this girl I know just a couple months before she turned 16. They both should of gone to jail for a long time, but neither pf them did.

Violent Rape, or 'Rape, Rape'- the use of physical harm and/or restraint in orde to subdue the victim for sexual activity. A person who violently harms and/or forcefully restrains another physically in order to have sex with them, in my opinion, should definitely get the harshest punishment of all. Of course that is not to say that the other kinds of statutory rape should have a punishment that is a cakewalk.

On a side note: This makes me think about that show, "To Catch A Predator." I have mixed emotions about that show. I think it served as a great deterrent, but at the same time I think it teaches a horrible lesson to the average viewer. That show was paved with good intentions, but it wasn't as responsible as it should of been with it's overall process.

Jason Salamone

 

[Typhon]

Did you read the testimony I posted?

I think Polanski's crime needs to be put under category 3 in that list, not 2. The girl said she was scared of him and frightened, she also said no repeatedly so she wasn't seduced by his fame, she had made her mind up that she wanted to go home but he wouldn't let her leave

 

[Jason Salamone]

Did you read the testimony I posted?

I think Polanski's crime needs to be put under category 3 in that list, not 2. The girl said she was scared of him and frightened. She also said no repeatedly, so she wasn't seduced by his fame.
She had made her mind up that she wanted to go home, but he wouldn't let her leave.

But what did he do to not let her leave? That is the question.

If Polanski verbally said she can't leave and sounded mean doing it, I'm sorry but in my humble opinion, that is not the same nor as bad or traumatic as if he forcefully grabbed her, beat her up, and/or pinned her down, restrained her, or tied her up.

If it was a verbal NO you can't leave and yes it may have been enough to scare her, well that is not as much of a traumatic experience as if she were physically abused and/or forcefully restrained her leaving marks, cuts, bruises, etc. on top of the sexual activity that proceeded.

She was in a sense seduced by his fame. If he wasn't famous, she more than likely wouldn't of even gone to his place and hung out with him for any reason in the first place. You can't expect either a boy or girl that are under the age of 16 to be able to exercise hindsight and better judgment like that though, and Polanski took full advantage of that fact.

Jason Salamone

 

[Typhon]

But what did he do to not let her leave? That is the question.
If he verbally said she can't leave and sounded mean doing it, I'm sorry but in my humble opinion, that is not the same nor as bad or traumatic as if he literally and forcefully grabbed her, beat her up, and/or pinned her down, restrained her, or tied her up forcefully.

If it was a verbal NO you can't leave and yes it may have been enough to scare her, well that is not as much of a traumatic experience as if she were physically abused and/or forcefully restrained her leaving marks, cuts, bruises, etc. on top of the sexual activity that proceeded.

She was in a sense seduced by his fame. If he wasn't famous, she more than likely wouldn't of even gone to his place and hung out with him alone in the first place. You can't expect either a boy or girl inder the age of 16 to be able to exercise hindsight and better judgment like that though, and Polanski took full advantage of that fact.

Jason Salamone

She was 13! What you're saying is that a 13 year old has to actually try and fight a grown man off for it to count as the worst kind of rape. She said no, she was too scared to fight properly but that doesn't make it less of a crime than holding the girl down

She said no, that makes it rape, there are no levels of rape severity, rape is rape, very clear and straight forward. The emphasis shoul dnot be placed on a girl or woman to fight the man and risk even greater injury for it to count as rape.

Sorry, but I think it's attitudes like yours that result in the public perception of there being a lesser form of rape, which in turn leads to the appalingly low conviction rate for these crimes.

If I were to scare you into handing over your money but didn't hit you it's still a mugging. This child was scared and alone, to say that it was a lesser charge because she didn't try and defend herself physically shows a lack of empathy towards the fear and confusion she was suffering IMO

And as for being seduced by fame, it looks like she was, to the point of taking her clothes off for photo's but that was it. Posing nude does not mean 'she was asking for it'. The seduction of fame clearly wore off at the point where he wanted sex and she said no. He didn't wear her down until she said 'well ok then', she said no throughout both rapes and he never stopped

 

[Typhon]

If Polanski verbally said she can't leave and sounded mean doing it, I'm sorry but in my humble opinion, that is not the same nor as bad or traumatic as if he forcefully grabbed her, beat her up, and/or pinned her down, restrained her, or tied her up.

I mentioned before that I know 3 people who were victims of sexual attacks as kids; none of them fought their attacker. One of those girls I got into a relationship with. 8 years after the event she was still unable to be in a house alone after dark and once I had to leave work early because she had a panick attack after she thought she saw her attacker's reflection in the TV. I found her curled up in the corner of the front room rocking back and forth with a carving knife in her hand. She never fought her rapist, do you still think it's less traumatic?

 

[Jason Salamone]

I mentioned before that I know 3 people who were victims of sexual attacks as kids; none of them fought their attacker. One of those girls I got into a relationship with. 8 years after the event she was still unable to be in a house alone after dark and once I had to leave work early because she had a panick attack after she thought she saw her attacker's reflection in the TV. I found her curled up in the corner of the front room rocking back and forth with a carving knife in her hand. She never fought her rapist, do you still think it's less traumatic?

I wouldn't expect a 13 year old boy or girl to fight back in that situation. That is not what I was implying. Regardless of age or gender, one doesn't have to fight back in order to encourage the assailant to be physically abusive before or as they are being raped.

I understand where you're coming from, but if physical violence were added to her experience, she I guarantee you that more than likely she unfortunately would of had an even tougher time with it than what you describe.
Just because I'm categorizing violent rape (rape that involves physical abuse) as a higher degree of rape, doesn't mean I don't have empathy and doesn't mean that I'm downplaying the seriousness or the potential negative results that may occur from any other kind of rape.

Jason Salamone

 

[Karky]

there is a big difference between using your fame and/or money to get someone to sleep with you and intimidating them. A lot of rapes don't turn violent because the person being raped is so scared and knows that the attacker is stronger and faster than them. They are too scared to resist because they know the attacker can hurt them badly if they resist.

He might have used his fame to get her to his house, so it's coerced statutory house visit, but if he scared her into having sex, then that's taking it to another level. I think there's a big difference between "come on! have sex with me, I'm rich" and "have sex with me or you know what will happen"

Statutory rape does have some problems, though.. I definitely don't think all law defined rape is equally bad. What if a 19 year old has sex with a 17 year old and it's consentual?
wouldn't that be statutory rape in the eyes of the court? I think there have been some sad cases of men going to jail in situations like this.. but I'm not all that familiar with the US or UK law system..

 

[Typhon]

I understand where you're coming from, but if physical violence were added to her experience, she I guarantee you that more than likely she unfortunately would of had an even tougher time with it than what you describe.

Look dude, sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you personally, you're not the rapist here and you were just saying what you really believe and even though I disagree with you I still admire that a lot.

If there were one thing I wish I could convince you of though, it's that rape is not less severe if there was a physical attack. It fact it's often worse if there isn't as the rapist is then left with a feeling of guilt for not doing more to prevent it and a self hatred for allowing it to happen. This can often lead to suicide.

I don't blame you for seeing things the way you do though, what you're saying sounds logical, but the damage of rape is about 5% physical and 95% emotional.

 

[Typhon]

Statutory rape does have some problems, though.. I definitely don't think all law defined rape is equally bad. What if a 19 year old has sex with a 17 year old and it's consentual?
wouldn't that be statutory rape in the eyes of the court? I think there have been some sad cases of men going to jail in situations like this.. but I'm not all that familiar with the US or UK law system..

Over here (and I think it's true in America too) but we have a kind of Romeo and Juliet clause. Basically if one person is below the age of consent and one is over but the gap in age is nominal then it's overlooked

 

[Karky]

Over here (and I think it's true in America too) but we have a kind of Romeo and Juliet clause. Basically if one person is below the age of consent and one is over but that gap in age is nominal then it's overlooked

that makes sense. I think it only goes for intercourse, though.. there was a case not too long back where dude got put in jail because his underage girlfriend sucked him off.. They were talking about how he would have been a free man if they had gone all the way because of some law thing..