McCain or Obama?
- Thread starter sensa516
- Start date
edco76
New member
I disagree. Even if you aren't enthusiastic about either of them the fact remains that they will make, or at least be in position to make decisions that will affect your life. I don't buy the whole "I don't like either so I am not going to vote" This is the leader of the free world we are talking about, not American Idol.
sensa516
New member
lol loved it....
edco76
New member
After reading that it came out a little snippier than I intended. busy91 and Aleeluh I didn't mean that as an insult. I can really sympathize with that position is as that I dont feel that either of them comes close to representing my political views and/or opinions. I would like to encourage you to do a little research in addition to what you read and hear in the mainstream media. Imagine if we went about losing weight using those sources? While I don't see either as the next great President they do have oposing views on several different issues and I am sure if you did a little fact checking or tuned in to one of the upcoming debates, that you will find atleast one or two issues that you will agree with one over the other on.
Also don't forget that the next President (especially if he goes 8 yrs.) will have a major affect on the Supreme Court as we have a few Justices getting a little long in the tooth. That is one of the more over looked but most important duties of a President. McCain atleast has promised to elect conservative judges and if you go by Obama's voting recors we can assume he will be supporting much more liberal judges. Look over some of the Supreme Court rulings and see which side you would land on.
Regardless of who's elected, the US is never leaving Iraq.....ever.
sensa516
New member
At one point we will withdraw troops...could I see it being something similiar to the way US troops are in Japan today much later in the future? yes. At one point though Americans have to realize that you cannot force democracy on a country. Democracy has to be a grassroots effort. The people have to demand it much like we did for the founding of our own country.
I guess my big issue is I wish more people (especially my generation) would care. It bothers me that my generation has the mtv effect vote for so and so because mtv said so or it's trendy with this celeb. I don't know maybe I'm weird and take things too seriously in certain areas but people have this belief that politics don't effect them as much as they actually do. My biggest pet peeve is when someone complains about the way something is and then you can simply ask...did you vote? Chances are they didn't. I'm not saying one vote changes the world but something is better than nothing. If enough of those my vote doesn't matter people voted...it would matter. Yes I know I'm ranting.
From what I gather from the few young people I talk politics with it's like this...
It's not that they don't care. They care what impacts them, which you express here. That's why they bitch when they're not happy. But what does voting really prove?
You get two schlups up on stage slinging negativity at one another and trying their best not to come across as a used car salesman but always seeming worse. It's hard to trust any politician nowadays.
A vote can go either way.
Even if that one vote mattered to a serious degree, shit is still shit. If someone asked me to put either a soft piece of shit in my mouth or a hard piece of shit in my mouth I'd probably punch them in the face and walk away.
No shit gets eaten just like no vote gets cast.
These aren't exactly my viewpoints but it's more of what I gathered from a diverse, yet relatively small group I've interacted with.
I'm voting for JM, personally. But that doesn't make me happy.
ETA: I just finished reading this thread and it looks like some here feel the same as the people I've chatted with on the subject
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busy91
0
Didn't once say at all that I wasn't voting. Don't assume.
Just because I don't like either candidate doesn't mean I'm not going to vote for one of them when the time comes. I know the importance of voting, especially since minorities and women couldn't always vote.
busy91
0
This is why they say don't discuss politics. But don't worry, I have thick skin.
And in all honesty, As long as I've been a voter and a worker, No president has improved the quality of my life. Bush just made it worse than it was.
sensa516
New member
I hate to be the one to do the put things in perspective....we can complain all we want about how bad the choices are but at the end of the day I'm thankful there are choices. There are so many places in the world where people die every day for the right to do something as simple as check a box with a name. Not one single person is perfect so how can anyone truly expect perfection from a group of people? People in this forum have taken a stand with their health. They don't like the way something is so they work like hell to change it. That concept applies elsewhere as well.
brunettegoddess
New member
This is question for some of you folks that could vote back in the 80s and earlier than that...
Were elections always like this? This will be my second presidential election. I can't say that any earlier than that I really paid attention (or remember) how the candidates were perceived or liked. I only have perspective from two elections. And I don't believe that reading history can truly capture how diverse or unified people feel when it's happening. So when history reviews great elections or electing the great Presidents... were they really that? Or were they OK guys who made it through and didn't screw too much up, and had a couple of positives here or there?
Were elections always like this? This will be my second presidential election. I can't say that any earlier than that I really paid attention (or remember) how the candidates were perceived or liked. I only have perspective from two elections. And I don't believe that reading history can truly capture how diverse or unified people feel when it's happening. So when history reviews great elections or electing the great Presidents... were they really that? Or were they OK guys who made it through and didn't screw too much up, and had a couple of positives here or there?
sensa516
New member
I think you get that feel looking back at history though or better yet talking to people. For example when JFK died the outcry and the way the country mourned. If Bush died you wouldn't see that kind of reaction...even with the last few presidents I don't think there would have been that kind of reaction.
edco76
New member
This is why they say don't discuss politics. But don't worry, I have thick skin.
And in all honesty, As long as I've been a voter and a worker, No president has improved the quality of my life. Bush just made it worse than it was.
Thanks for the thick skin. As for your other point, I understand what you are saying but since I havent made you mad yet I will test that thick skin a little further.
One thing we need to understand is that all we have for comparison is what DID happen. We never know what WOULD HAVE. My point being (and this will address Steve's shit is shit view as well. I am going to assume that you were alive in 1984. In Reagan's last term he ended the Cold War. Would Mondale have been able to? Maybe. Would it have taken longer? Who knows. Now I am not saying that Reagan saved the world from nuclear destruction but I am saying that we now know that we were a whole hell of a lot closer than anyone believed we were at the time. So who knows?
People say that one candidate is no different than the other. True to some extent. Look at it this way though.
Bush signed into law a $1.35 trillion tax cut program in 2001. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, to overthrow the Taliban, destroy Al-Qaeda, and to capture Osama bin Laden, Bush ordered an invasion of Afghanistan and announced in October 2001 a global War on Terrorism. Bush signed the No Child Left Behind Act in 2002. In March 2003, Bush along with the UNO and Congress asserted Iraq was in possession of weapons of mass destruction and ordered the invasion of Iraq.
Thats just his 1st term. He also seated 3 Justices, stopped stem cell research and gave me a tax rebate that I am still waiting on.
Now, Gore may have done a better job because some of those things havent worked out so well but I do believe that it is inarguable that he would have done the EXACT same job.
If Kerry had won he said he would end the wars. That may have worked out wonderful or it may have been too soon and we may have suffered numerous homeland attacks by now and be begging for McCain so that he would send troops back over instead of looking for someone to bring them home.
Every and I do mean every President has affected America's economy, safety, and foreign policies. Just because they are all corrupt, elitist, crooked old men does not mean that they will all make the exact same decisions and no one knows the future.
Right or wrong I was simply elaborating on what I've found the perspective of most young voters to be in my social network. It's not a matter of putting things into perspective. It's how they feel.
sensa516
New member
Oh I get it and come across it all the time as well. I guess it's part of the "me generation syndrome"
I think it's a matter of not seeing the big picture.
I only have one friend (out of the handful that I grew up with, so we're talking a pool of 10 people and this one I didn't even grow up with) who votes, sadly. His brother was blown up twice in the marines in Iraq and lived to talk about it. He votes b/c he understands the impact the freedom to vote has on not only this country, but his life personally.
Most people have trouble making that 'personal' connection so see it as futile, it seems.
I only have one friend (out of the handful that I grew up with, so we're talking a pool of 10 people and this one I didn't even grow up with) who votes, sadly. His brother was blown up twice in the marines in Iraq and lived to talk about it. He votes b/c he understands the impact the freedom to vote has on not only this country, but his life personally.
Most people have trouble making that 'personal' connection so see it as futile, it seems.
sensa516
New member
I suppose that's part of my connection to it. I grew up around the military and all my friends that I grew up with are active duty most with multiple tours underneath their belt. I had planned the same career path and was supposed to attend the AF Academy but got sick and with that particular illness in my medical history couldn't serve active duty. I had this one friend in middle school...she moved here from Kosovo...the stories she used to tell...still make me shiver.
busy91
0
I was alive in '84, one year shy of voting though and being in HS I couldn't care less about Regan or politics. I do think Reagan was one of our most decent presidents, and a lot of good happened during his terms.
I think most presidents whether they are Reps or Dems, black or white, male or female work off of a similar mindset and a lot of situations will be dealt with in a very similar fashion. You are right that no one knows the future, life is full of 'what if's'.