Sport Low carb, glycogen, protein breakdown questions
- Thread starter Karky
- Start date
Sport Fitness
So, in accordance with the guidelines of this ' anabolic diet ', lets say for example, Karky follows the breakdown he cited earlier for 16 weeks, namely...
" 60% fat, 35% protein, and only 5% carbs"
Now, given all other things being equal - i.e same overall calorie intake, same training regimen etc. etc. - lets say for example, Karky were to follow a more traditional breakdown over 16 weeks of ...
" 25% fat, 25% protein, and only 50% carbs "
What outcomes would one expect from the anabolic diet macro profile vs the more traditional macro profile over these 16 weeks, would it be ...
- significantly more muscle mass gain ?
- significantly more muscle strength gain
- significantly less gain in fat ?
- significantly more muscle strength gain
- significantly less gain in fat ?
And aspect about this anabolic diet makes it unsuitable for people who do not train - i.e " this diet isn't and wasn't intended for people that don't weight train " ?
Significantly less fat gain
* High protein, high fat & low carb from Monday to Friday.
* High carbs, low protein & low fat on weekends.
The protein of choice is fatty, red meat. Fatty red meat is high in cholesterol and saturated fat which increases your testosterone levels. The absence of carbs for 5 consecutive days forces your body to use fat for energy.
# Decreased cholesterol & triglyceride levels
# Decreased plaque buildup in arteries
# Controlled insulin levels
* High protein, high fat & low carb from Monday to Friday.
* High carbs, low protein & low fat on weekends.
The protein of choice is fatty, red meat. Fatty red meat is high in cholesterol and saturated fat which increases your testosterone levels. The absence of carbs for 5 consecutive days forces your body to use fat for energy.
# Decreased cholesterol & triglyceride levels
# Decreased plaque buildup in arteries
# Controlled insulin levels
In my experience you gain less fat but less muscle too.
The reason it's not made for an average individual is because there is no reason for them to restrict their diet like this if they are not trying to minimize fat gain while bulking.....
Why would a person use this diet for just maintaining is the question...
Just curious... are you serious when you ask these questions Wrangell? It always seems like you know the answer beforehand but ask anyway for some reason..... why?
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If you had to guess, and based on your knowledge of the claims of the anabolic diet , what do you ballpark ' significantly ' as being defined as - i.e as compared to a traditional macro profile ( other things being equal ) for example ..
- 10% less fat ?
- 20% less fat ?
- 50% less fat ?
If weigh training is primarily an anaerobic activity, and since you need oxygen to burn fat effectively...I assume you aren't relying on fat as a primary fuel for an intense weight workout or HIIT ( which normally places a lot of demands on glycogen ).
Are you saying that you are using protein and it's conversion to glucose ( i.e gluconeogenesis ) for fueling HIIT and intense weight training ?
O.K.....let's say an average gym rat knows their maintenance calorie level - i.e say it is 3,000 calories - and just wants to maintain their weight - not bulk in any way. So, just in terms of optional macro profiles that they could follow, 2 possible options seem to be .....
A: " 60% fat, 35% protein, and only 5% carbs".......anabolic profile
B: " 25% fat, 25% protein, and only 50% carbs "...traditional profile
B: " 25% fat, 25% protein, and only 50% carbs "...traditional profile
...assuming they consume 3,000 calories in both cases - A and B - are you suggesting that it may be possible that there is a greater likelihood for fat gain with B vs A ............even though 3,000 calories are consumed in both cases ?
Also, would it be possible to stay on a ' anabolic diet ' for an entire bulking phase ...i.e 4 months or longer ?
Or, another question - as I posed - above ...why could they not ?
Absolutely.
I know virtually nothing - certainly not as much you and a few others do - about ' anabolic diets ' - ostensibly because I'm not particularity drawn to gimmicky ' quick fix ' diets.
So, the only way I'm going to learn more about ' anabolic diets ' is to ask questions of those who seem to know a great deal about them.
Anabolic diet is just another euphemism for a fad diet.
Considering all these fad diets are not healthy, work harder with glucose, fat is more dense so you eat more to feel full, as well as fat burning in a carb flame! the reason you fall for these "anabolic" diets is because they appear on t nation. That site is laughable
Just do something like a mediterranean diet plus exercise and results will come, most important is that they will be permanent. And if your trying to get below 5% or something then i suggest you go see a psychologist.
Considering all these fad diets are not healthy, work harder with glucose, fat is more dense so you eat more to feel full, as well as fat burning in a carb flame! the reason you fall for these "anabolic" diets is because they appear on t nation. That site is laughable
Just do something like a mediterranean diet plus exercise and results will come, most important is that they will be permanent. And if your trying to get below 5% or something then i suggest you go see a psychologist.
Anabolic diet is just another euphemism for a fad diet.
Considering all these fad diets are not healthy, work harder with glucose, fat is more dense so you eat more to feel full, as well as fat burning in a carb flame! the reason you fall for these "anabolic" diets is because they appear on t nation. That site is laughable
Just do something like a mediterranean diet plus exercise and results will come, most important is that they will be permanent. And if your trying to get below 5% or something then i suggest you go see a psychologist.
One question, do you even workout?
Because obviously you don't see a difference between BODYBUILDING, FITNESS, and GENERALLY healthy exercise.
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The anabolic diet has been around and followed for almost 4 years, and it is definetly not some "quick fad" diet.
If you would like in-depth detailed answers, register a account on the t-nation forums, go in their supplement and nutrition section and ask your questions. You'd get better answers from people experienced on this diet and people who have followed it for years and seen results.
By the way, that not supposed to come off as an insult if it did.
Just curious whether you weight train and/or bodybuild
whether you have done any strength training, have done any bulks/cuts
have any type of experience
or whether your just sprewing 'science'
thanks.
Ok was just curious whether you were some skinny kid who never lifted, or whether you actually lifted and had some experience.
The scientists at universities can kiss my ass for all I care because the people at T-nation are actual weight lifters and bodybuilders. They have experience, and experience in the field of bodybuilding is head over high over science.
All they care about is getting big, and taking their body to the next level. Thats experience.
Science changes. Experience is constant, the same bodybuilding techniques that worked in the 70's and 80's still work today, there are just techniques being formulated and new theories on how to get better. Science changes.
Science can't make you big, muscular, or lean. It can only explain WHY it happened.
You guys can continue arguing why this or that might be unhealthy, or why this or that is not a good energy source, or w/e the **** you guys like to debate. The difference between you and the people at T-nation is that the people at T-nation actually DO it, instead of talking about it.
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keep this discussion clean people. T nation has some very respected and professional authors, you should know that. And the day will be the day when universities refer an article from a frikkin pasta company..
I made this thread because I wanted objective views from people who know what they are talking about, so far, only a very few people have manged that, if anyone had already made up their mind before stepping into this thread, then please leave.
The anabolic diet is not a fat diet, it is just a whole new set of diet principles that goes against a lot of the beliefs that have been stapled into our minds through the education of the 80s (it probably still goes on now)
Matt, do you even know the authors who contribute at T-nation? Or did you just do like every one else who are "like you" and run for the hills when you saw the word "testosterone" and the fact that they have pictures of bodybuilders. If you can't handle the culture or come with any real information to this thread, then please, get out. What is the difference between the Mediterranean Diet and the Anabolic Diet that makes the latter a fad and not the first?
Wrangell:
I believe the thing that makes this diet more suitable for people who train frequently are the weekend carb ups.
Have you gathered enough info? do you have anything to say about this? I know you have a scientific mind. Or have you already made up your mind? which it would seem since you were quick to call it a "fad" diet
I said it was a " quick fix " diet.......not " quick fad ".
If you're talking about the average gym rat, I believe in long term and sustainable nutritional habits you can adopt day in and day out for the next 20 years....or what matt182 called ' permanent '.
Again, in the context of the average gym rat, as a general rule I don't believe in " quick fix " diets that are so ' extreme ', that they only have shelf life of weeks instead of years...but that's just me.
Why go to T-nation, when I can ask you ?
I'm just looking for some quick, basic and simple answers from our members actually...nothing too detailed. I only have a casual interest in this topic as a result of this thread ...nothing more...so I have no interest in T-nation
Besides, you when were describing the anabolic diet, it seemed you have some in-depth knowledge what you were talking about, when you said it......
" # Decreased cholesterol & triglyceride levels
# Decreased plaque buildup in arteries
# Controlled insulin levels "
# Decreased plaque buildup in arteries
# Controlled insulin levels "
Btw, were you able to give some though to my earlier questions ? Again.
If you had to guess, and based on your knowledge of the claims of the anabolic diet , what do you ballpark ' significantly ' as being defined as - i.e as compared to a traditional macro profile ( other things being equal ) for example ..
- 10% less fat ?
- 20% less fat ?
- 50% less fat ?
- 20% less fat ?
- 50% less fat ?
Also, If weigh training is primarily an anaerobic activity, and since you need oxygen to burn fat effectively...I assume you aren't relying on fat as a primary fuel for an intense weight workout or HIIT ( which normally places a lot of demands on glycogen ).
Are you saying that you are using protein and it's conversion to glucose ( i.e gluconeogenesis ) for fueling HIIT and intense weight training ?
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Not sure I follow.
For example, why couldn't someone who - for example just wanted to stay at 3,000 maintenance calories - stay on this anabolic diet day in day or for the next 2 - 3years if they wanted to ?
Why could they not ' carb up ' on weekends as well ?
Well, I'm just trying to learn more about it..that's about it.
Still not too clear on the how's and why of using a diet that is 60% fat to bulk and minimize fat.
I don't understand the basic biochemistry behind it I guess.
No more than anyone else ...my background is business ...not science.
No, I called it a " quick fix "..which is a fact isn't it ?
Can you stay on an anabolic diet day in and day out for the next 20 years ?
If not, why not ?
I don't know if I would call it a quick fix.. It is suppose to give you better results, but it is not like gain 10lbs of muscle in 4 weeks or anything like that.
You could stay on the diet indefinitely if you want to. The carb ups are suppose to make the carbs rush to your muscles so you fill your glycogen stores. At the end of the week glycogen will be depled and training will be harder (I'll see if it is this way for me today, it will be my last workout before my first weekend carb up), the workouts after the carb up will be easier as you have more glycogen.
You could stay on the diet indefinitely if you want to. The carb ups are suppose to make the carbs rush to your muscles so you fill your glycogen stores. At the end of the week glycogen will be depled and training will be harder (I'll see if it is this way for me today, it will be my last workout before my first weekend carb up), the workouts after the carb up will be easier as you have more glycogen.
Then I stand corrected.
I thought it was just another ' quick fix ' diet.
Then I suppose, if you're right, it simply represents another dietary / nutritional protocol you could follow for the next 20 -30 years if you wanted to.
Fair enough.
If it works, would you stay on it indefinitely ?
I assume the concern is that if you eat over 50% - 60% carbs each day, that despite your training, your glycogen stores will always be near full and a calorie surplus diet wiill therefore result in ' excess ' carbs and fat being stored as fat.
if it works, sure. I will have to see how long I can keep up eating this much fatty food. it is very unusual for me and I haven't adapted to it. I'm kinda sick of cheese and almonds.
The concern is that insulin makes the body secrete (I think that is the right word to use) other hormones that are fat storing and preventative of fat burning. So if you eat a lot of carbs you will always have a lot of insulin in your bloodstream, which will in turn make you gain fat and prevent you from burning fat. However, as pointed out in this thread, insulin is also responsible for getting protein into the muscle cells faster and making the protein synthesis going faster. So I guess it is kind of a choice one will have to make.
Personally I'd like to gain muscle with very little fat so I don't have to take very long cuts to lose it. When you are cutting you are not gaining muscle and you are not gaining as much strength as while bulking.
The concern is that insulin makes the body secrete (I think that is the right word to use) other hormones that are fat storing and preventative of fat burning. So if you eat a lot of carbs you will always have a lot of insulin in your bloodstream, which will in turn make you gain fat and prevent you from burning fat. However, as pointed out in this thread, insulin is also responsible for getting protein into the muscle cells faster and making the protein synthesis going faster. So I guess it is kind of a choice one will have to make.
Personally I'd like to gain muscle with very little fat so I don't have to take very long cuts to lose it. When you are cutting you are not gaining muscle and you are not gaining as much strength as while bulking.