GOP / Democratic race for the white house.

I did do some research and contemplating on how much we REALLY pay in taxes and let me tell you, it made me sick.
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Yea. The average American has no idea how may different ways we pay taxes, or how it all ads up.

Are there any 3rd party candidates I should know about?
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Nobody I think is worth mentioning. (my political opinion of course)

and

1. It doesn't just effect women.
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Your right.

2. The rest population may end up having to pay for the baby that can't be afforded?
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Should we start killing people who are unemployed or just lost their job because they might need welfare?
 
goergen1 said:
Should we start killing people who are unemployed or just lost their job because they might need welfare?
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That wasn't my point. You said that it only affected a small part of the population. I was pointing out how that wasn't true.
 
I just wonder what this will do to state taxes.
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Things would change and the state and local taxes would go up. The difference is that the residents of the state have MUCH more influence on how things are done than at the federal level.

I have met and talked to a lot of people in our local government here. I believe that these people are much more in touch with what needs to be done and what people want and need than anyone in Washington.
 
That wasn't my point. You said that it only affected a small part of the population. I was pointing out how that wasn't true.
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Point taken. Seems like a change in the welfare system is in order, not taking people out. That was my point.
 
A few random thoughts:

- Let's say I think that abortion is murder. It is still entirely possible that I would not want a candidate for FEDERAL office to be advocating anti-abortion legislation or policies of any sort, because I believe that murder and crime is something left to the STATES to regulate. Call it federalism. Or something. Hehehe.

- The major religions of the world vehemently disagree on when life begins. I understand that some people believe that life begins at conception & ergo any abortion is murder. However, the desire to effectuate this policy on everyone else - including people whose religions dictate otherwise - is part of the latent problem that libertarians would have with a pro-life/anti-abortion stance. One particular area in which this manifests itself is when the mother's health is endangered by the baby. Different religions prescribe different treatment. The pro-life/anti-abortion efforts to limit ALL abortions or to carve out a very narrow exception of when the mother's life requires an abortion is neither respectful of these religious differences (nor, for another matter, has it been a politically savvy strategy). Note that abortion is NOT the same as permitting homicide, because there is no similar religious or moral debate about the already born.

- The greyness of abortion has already played out in a pragmatic way. Many laws & other realities have chipped away at the so-called right to an abortion, such that women who live in many "red states" are effectively precluded from getting abortions anyway.

- The average American has no idea how LITTLE he or she pays in taxes compared to citizens in pretty much every other Western, democratic country.

Just some observations.
 
I don't think your religion should excuse you from any laws.

It's very true that most European countries have much higher taxes, I'd be even more upset if I lived there (but at least I'd have a lower crime rate and better public education)
 
we pay way more taxes in Norway.. but then again, we do get more for free too :p

About abortion, it should be up to science, not religion to determine what a life is.

As for my stand on abortion, I haven't made up my mind, it's a very complex problem to me. However, I haven't done much research because chanses are slim that the right to have an abortion is going to get taken away in Norway, you'd need to have the majority of the parlament/senate, or whatever the Norwegian thing co-relates to, with you, which is just not going to happen at the time being.

In Norway there are, however, strict rules as to when you can have an abortion, after x week you can't unless you have a special case and then you need to have this board look over your case. The only cases that get through there is usually is the child will be born with some VERY bad disease.

How is that in the US, how far along is abortion no longer an option?
 
goergen1 said:
It is an issue all about a small minority of people as opposed to issues that effect everyone. Like the federal income tax, social security, the American union idea, or health care.

As far as my opinion on the subject. I am with theGOOCH on my stand that it is evil and wrong. My wife and I have reached the point where we can tell people we are going to have our first child.

After seeing how things work during pregnancy (much less how things go after birth, which will be new to be) abortion is even more wrong than I previously thought.

I am not, however, going to base my vote on only that issue.
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You guys should add ' child care ' to the list of issues for debate as well.

For example, up here, a women who gives birth, gets 15 weeks of maternity leave and 35 weeks of parental leave. And if a couple chooses, the 35 weeks can be split between the husband and wife. And your job ( or equivalent ) is guaranteed when you return to work from your leave as well.
 
sig said:
No one said anything about using religion as an excuse for not following the law. The discussion was about abortion & what the law SHOULD be in the first place.
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I stand corrected. Laws shouldn't be written or not written based on possible conflict with religious beliefs

...and before you say it, my stance on abortion has nothing to do with religion:)
 
theGOOCH said:
I've never read it, but...

The fact that I am against abortion stems from the fact that I believe that abortion is the murder of a human being. Not because I have any interest in telling people what they can or can't do. This is the most misinterpreted stance in the whole issue. If I seriously did not believe that abortion was murder, I would be vehemently pro-choice. The argument is fetus = human or fetus = non-human. It has nothing to do with "choice".
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Im sure many people wouldnt want an abortion once the cell has turned into a fetus. But what about before this time period of 8 weeks when it has no nervous system so therefore no suffering, even when its undifferentiated!

Some people are even apposed to antiabortion for women who have been raped, what a disgrace shows how grotesque there minds are..
 
Thanks for completely this thread into something what it was not supposed to be. I don't care about your opinions on abortions or religion . I asked for the candidates you liked and why.

Thanks Georgeon, for atleast replying on topic, and yes Ron paul is a good guy, though he has no chance of winning IMO>
 
Vote for either Barack Obama or Ron paul or I will be angry!!!!

I asked my dad who he's voting for and he said Hillary Clinton, i said wtf why. He said because "shes the best" when he hasn't even heard the other candidates and hasn't even listented to clinton's policies.
 
lol, Georgeon went the most off topic.
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Really?? I thought I stayed on topic. Discussed different parties, a candidate I like and some of his policies, why I thought these policies were a good idea, and abortion.

All of which I think answered the question -

Does anyone here follow politics? If so, what nominees are you supporting and who do you wish to win the presidency or nomination?
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Thanks for the thanks Phate. :beerchug:
 
Which candidate will be brave enough to ignore religious pressure on areas such as homesexuality, faith, stem cell research and abortion.

Funny how these topics dont have anything to do with the protestors themselves but interfere with other peoples choices and beliefs. bullies!
 
goergen1 said:
Really?? I thought I stayed on topic. Discussed different parties, a candidate I like and some of his policies, why I thought these policies were a good idea, and abortion.

All of which I think answered the question -



Thanks for the thanks Phate. :beerchug:
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I guess I meant off-topic with the same meaning Phate used to describe Matt going off-topic when he was talking about a subject you spoke about as well. But he didn't say anything because he didn't find what you said to be morally objectable.

Why do so many men seem to hate Hillary?
 
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