Fasting!

[BelindaR]

I put together the pilot study. And the results are as I reported them.

That's the thing. You haven't produced ("reported") any results/data from your pilot study anywhere while trying to back up your claim, Steve. You have never once given a solid, precise answer as to how many people were in your "study", and exactly how many people reported exactly what, etc. You think anyone is going to grant you a larger study when you can't even produce the results to an online forum? You're a joke, Steve. You continually refuse to back your claims with any hard proof from this so-called "pilot study". Why is that I wonder? Unless you never did the study and you're just spouting bull shit.

 

[San2]

This is starting to be really entertaining.

Several people tell him they do exactly what he says, and report that their results are different from what he claims they should be. All these people are liars. And hostile, obviously.

Nobody ever claimed that breakfast is necessary. Not one of us said that you NEED to have breakfast, ever. Personally, I eat breakfast when I feel like it, and if not, I skip it. I eat when I'm hungry, not when I am supposed to eat. Sometimes that means I have one meal a day, sometimes two, sometimes three. Depends.

Let's just surmise what we know so far...there was some sort of study. We don't know how many participants it had, because the person running it can't make up his mind. There is no further information about the study, the 'test subjects', the conditions under which the study was run, where it was run, who supervised it, who double checked it, or whether the participants were supervised. We have no credible source for the results of the study, nor any follow up studies, or reproduction of the results. Any questions about hard data concerning the study have been dodged. In fact, not a single question has been properly answered - the only reply that's available from the person who supposedly ran the study is, basically, that breakfast is the root of all evil, and that everybody besides him is lying through their teeth. Even in the face of evidence to the contrary, that person insists that EVERYBODY ELSE is wrong, and only HE is right. And that the entire world, including high profile doctors and scientists, has been brainwashed by the evil 'breakfast industry'.....

I could go on, but I won't. I know when I see a lost cause. Whatever is being said, and whoever says, it will always be lies, and we're against him, and we've all been brainwashed, and that's the end of the story. Evidence and hard data mean nothing whatsoever.

From a medical standpoint, and just because I should throw it out there....I have never suggested to anybody in my professional career that they HAVE to eat a certain meal, at a certain time of the day. Unlike others, I am well aware of the fact that every body is different, and therefore needs to be treated differently. I have also never met any medical professional (including the ambulance drivers) who displayed such a blatant lack of basic medical and social knowledge. Make of that what you will.

I'm done. We're either being trolled hardcore here, or there is really no point in this, and we should just let this thread, and the other ones, die out.

 

[bellavibtrim]

When you are fasting, your body will go into a self-preservation mode to counter starvation. It will begin to slow down your metabolism and increase the production of cortisol. Cortisol is a stress hormone that is produced by the adrenal glands.

 

[Omega]

It isnt 2nd October - but it might as well be...

I'll post the same thing again....

http://weight-loss.fitness.com/threads/59572-Fasting!?p=876833#post876833

Still no answers to the questions...

LOL - we still havent heard how many people were in it... whether there were 7 people or whether there were 8 people.

Still no pubmed link...

This comment still holds true:

It is certainly time that you got round to counting them so that you knew how many people you were talking about...

Also time you found that pubmed link - or reported it to pubmed so that it could be considered and evaluated by the wider research community.

You clearly consider it to be a breakthrough - surely in that case you morally ought to ensure that it is more fully researched by those with wider resources and peer reviewed.

Fun as it is to see you print excerpts from a book which you admit to not publishing under your own name - we'd prefer answers to the questions asked.

http://weight-loss.fitness.com/threads/59414-pilot-study-into-breakfast?p=868268#post868268

Sure.

If I do that, will you let me give out the name of the book to the board, and the name it is published under?

Publishing a book under a false identity would not get the level of peer review that we would be interested in seeing.

 

[San2]

And I see even San is starting to backpedal through her sniggers of amusement.

Backpedal?

I basically told you outright that I am not taking you seriously any more, and you think that is backpeddling? It must be a wonderful, wonderful world that you live in. Sad that it's so far removed from reality.

Are you going to answer any of the direct questions you've been asked, by the way?

 

[icychic]

And as to IcyChic....sure, the first few days are tough. Really tough. But the carrot is that you can eat whatever you want in the 9-10 hour anything goes period. That was enough to pull most of my people through. Plus my lecture on physiology. What really made them sit up and take notice was the fact that in the morning your body is burning fat. That's the stuff you WANT to get rid of, right? When you eat breakfast, you STOP THAT PROCESS COLD, as well as loading on more calories.

You can't judge it on one morning. And you DID cop out by eating at 9:30. THIS is the discipline. No pain, no gain. By not eating until noon, YOU WILL NOT DIE. Really. You must endure SOME discomfort to get to that plateau, which only will take a few days.

The 9:30 "cop out" is crap. I never said I was trying your plan so me eating at 9:30 is not a cop out, it is simply what I did that day. But with that said: what the YEARS when I never ate breakfast? I ate my first meal later in the day (usually 11 if not noon) and for a number of years did not eat past about 7PM because that's when my family sat down for dinner after which I'd do homework, study, watch TV, and go to bed. What about those years when I did that and STILL gained weight?

Again, STILL NO LINK!

Also, no reports of the cals in vs out because in our opinion if you they are not only doing your fasting routine but also eating less cals then there is no proof the weight loss isn't due to the less cals and exercise rather than the fasting itself. Also, what about after they lose the weight and decide they want to start eating in the morning if they are hungry? Do they gain the weight back? Or is this fasting something they would have to keep doing forever?

You say there are no requirements for what or how much they eat, only the times they eat. Also no requirements for exercise, but if someone goes from not exercising and eating 5000 cals per day, to eating say 2000 cals and exercising a bunch, THAT could be the cause for weight loss and not your fasting method. Your participant even proves she consciously changed her eating habits because junk made her crave and veggies did not.

Side note: 28lbs in 7 months is CRAP in my opinion.

You posted what a supposed participant supposedly reported, but that's not even a GOOD result. Why not post the best results you've seen? Why not LINK these? If I was doing a study on a new weight loss plan that I felt was great and wanted everyone to know about, I'd set up a website and have my participants post their comments. Why have you not done this? And why publish the book under a different name if you feel so strongly about it? Seems like THAT is a cop out to me.

You are still ignoring all of our direct questions.
How many people in the study?
STILL NO LINK!!!

I am open to listening about this fasting plan/program of yours. But without the solid proof and backup, there is no way I'm going to try it for myself. Especially if the best you can do is show someone losing 28lbs in 7 months.

 

[San2]

Oooh, now we're lost causes. That's cute.

And still, no link. All we have is your word, and I'm sorry to say, by now that's not worth a damn.

You bring one example from your supposed study. ONE. In this thread alone, several people have told you that they did exactly what you propose, and had results vastly differing from yours - the exact opposite in fact. But it's everybody else who is wrong.

I think there's a pathological condition that causes this kind of behaviour.....just throwing it out there.

 

[icychic]

Still no link. Where is the link Steve? Where??

I know you didn't restrict their diet, I know you didn't require them to exercise, but you still fail to see my point. If the participant was eating less calories, and eating healthy, and working out - is it not possible that these are the reasons they lost weight and not the fasting itself? To prove that the Fasting is the reason for the weight loss you would need to isolate that factor ONLY, would you not?

Also a personal thought on the exercise: people need exercise to be healthy, not to lose weight or maintain their weight, but to be and stay healthy. Am I wrong?

My personal goal was to lose 30lbs in 4 months. This was equal to about 2lbs per week. I think that is reasonable, maybe a bit ambitious but reasonable and healthy. 28lbs in 7 months is closer to 1lb per week, which yes OK is still decent, but why would I change what I'm doing to a new way of doing things if it's not going to get better results, and possible will get NO results?

Eating right and exercising has been proven over and over and over to work with weight loss and gaining a healthy lifestyle. And i don't mean diets, I hate diets because they by definition are short term, not long term. But exercising and eating healthy is long term. Sugar, like that in pop, is bad for my health. yes it's bad for my weight loss as well, but the better reason for stopping drinking pop for me is both, the weight loss and the health factor. When I lose the weight I MAY start to drink some pop again but if I can help it I won't because I know it would still be bad for my health.

You say Tara is my proof, but she isn't. Why? Because you haven't proven she is actually a participant, you haven't given us a link to any of your findings and peer reviews stating it was a legit study. You haven't even told us how many people were in this study and how many succeeded vs how many failed!

And again you are calling us liars. Stating those who say we have done this but gained weight were liars.

How can we believe you, how can we agree with your findings, when you aren't proving anything.

LINK!!!

 

[BelindaR]

about a guy who went from 430 to 170 pounds in 11 months through true fasting (I'd call it anorexia but the psychology of that requires the person be underweight, as explained in the post, and he isn't underweight). During part of the AMA, the gentleman explains that over time, the hunger pains stopped.

Steve, you need to change the wording of what you're trying to prove. Fasting can condition your body to get "used" to hunger pains to where, as this person explained, they eventually disappear altogether. But what you said "fasting for a single meal and then eating whatever you want for eight hours will help you lose weight" is grossly false--which has been proven through simple math: to lose weight, you need a caloric deficiency between what you eat and what you burn throughout the day. What you need to say is "fasting for a single meal will condition your body to not have hunger pains during those hours you'd normally have said meal". It wouldn't help you lose weight, sorry, but that's the simple and definitive truth. People who regularly skip breakfast but eat lunch eventually may not have those hunger pains at all in the mornings; I know I didn't through the four years I was in high school and skipping breakfast.

Side note to others: during the AMA, the man repeatedly said he'd NEVER recommend this method of weight loss even though he did it himself. He has several surgeries in the future to repair torn muscles that were lacking the protein to repair themselves and his doctors said he may have complications with his kidneys in the future. Several times he also mentions how it had a huge negative impact on his relationships with family and friends because his brain wasn't getting enough glucose to function which put him in a sluggish, zombie state and changed his personality.

 

[Omega]

I think that it is about time you posted the pubmed link to show that the format of the original study had been open to peer review before you tried to encourage our members to try anything.

 

[San2]

I could post on Joann, but would you call her a liar, too?
Steve? Denny?

Since you are calling all of us liars, that would only be fair. And what proof do we have that these people exist anywhere outside of your imagination?

Omega is right - I would also like to see the link, together with proof that the study was conducted under appropriate medical supervision, and has been open to peer review for the necessary length of time. Do not try to encourage anybody to follow your 'protocol' before supplying us with said proof.

 

[mrs woods]

It just does not make any sense, unless I am missing something.

So lets say Jane decides to do your program.
She skips her breakfast and starts to eat at 12 pm.
Since she did not have breakfast and is aloud to eat "what ever", Jane thinks she will have what she would have had for breakfast anyway.
A few hours later... rejoicing in the fact that she can eat whatever...she does...then she does again...this is great eating whatever...just not whenever.
Now it's 7.30 pm...Jane thinks I will just have a nice big snack before 8pm.
Jane sit down, it is now 8pm and she decides to add up the calories that she had for the day.
It is a whooping 3250 calories...to stay at the weight she is now she must eat no more than 1800.
One week later and feeling fatter than before....iggy:

Silly Jane, she re reads the thread....it's says to not eat breakfast and in the 8 hour to have 2 meals.
How did she get this wrong??? mmmm.
She does this still the calories are way way too high....but wait she thinks.. my brain, mind what ever will soon tell me I wont get cravings...I wont what to eat much soon....alas it doesn't.

Poor ol Jane, last I heard she will join this forum but not this thread as she is too embarrassed to tell anyone what she did, incase SOMEONE tells her that her jeans are now to small because she used a different washing powder.

 

[mrs woods]

Forgot to add, eat the break...fast when it suit you be that 56789 or 10am plus...poor shift workers could never do steves program, as most have to sleep and adjust to life in very odd hours.

 

[icychic]

I'm not calling Tara a liar. I question her existence, period. Show us the pubmed link, or at the very least tell us there isn't one.

You posting more supposed participants success stories will not persuade me to try your method. And I do not fear missing breakfast. Have you been really reading my posts? Because if you had you would see that I used to skip breakfast ALL THE TIME. In fact just yesterday I went the entire day without eating or drinking until I had Thanksgiving dinner at my friends place that night. Was simply too busy to notice I was hungry and too busy to stop for food once I realized I had eaten nothing all day.

Today it is noon and I only just ate breakfast. Why? Because I didn't want to get out of bed, and didn't feel like eating. During the week, I eat breakfast, but not before I leave the house. Generally I'm up around 4/4:30AM and don't eat breakfast until 9 at the earliest. I am not afraid of missing a meal Steve, I simply don't care to try your program without the proof I feel I, and everyone else here, deserves.

We are all questioning your study, questioning if it is real or if you are making it all up, and questioning the results of this study. Simply stating your participants only ate within that 9-10 hour period and that they lost weight means nothing to me. Why? Because there are SO MANY other factors that could have caused this weight loss that had nothing to do with not eating until later in the day.

Also, now you are saying that your fasting regime states that you miss breakfast and eat only 2 meals a day instead. But if I can eat whatever I want in that 9-10 hours, doesn't that mean I could eat 5 meals in that time if I wanted to? So you are contradicting yourself there.

If you want us to believe you, or even take you seriously, you need to show us the link to your study. If you did do a study, this should not be so much to ask. Should it?

So, prove to us that your study is real, prove to us the results are real, and maybe then some of us would honestly think about trying this. But without a link, without that proof, trust me, we will NOT be trying your "protocol".

 

[icychic]

In the third day eat period, I DOUBT very strongly that you will eat 4,000 calories.
People reported that they physically could not eat as much as before. And their cravings changed.

You DOUBT, but CANNOT PROVE! Still no pubmed link. Has your study been peer reviewed? Yes or no. This is a very simple question.

How many people in your study? Still not answered.
How long did the study last? Still not answered.
Pubmed link? Still not provided.
Everyone who says they did this for years and GAINED weight? LIARS.
Anyone who posts anything contradictory? LIARS!
Proof this works? NONE!!!!!!

"almost guarantee" really? ALMOST? That means you know yourself that the "program" will not always work, even if we follow it to a T.


I find I work better at work, and can concentrate better if I have eaten SOMETHING for breakfast.
Perhaps that should be your next test. Have people eat breakfast and the way they "should" eat in the general public opinion and test their mental capacity. Then test it throughout the day for the next week while they are on your program. I don't want to lose weight by "fasting" if it means I am unproductive at work.

Also I don't think losing weight means you have to constantly be hungry. You have to eat better, and in my opinion, if you eat right you won't feel like you are starving. It's about portion control and controlling what you eat, not about skipping meals completely. But again I'm sure you will spout some babble about your study and supposed findings and again provide no link to prove the study happened and to prove it was reviewed.

So why do I keep commenting? I don't know. Seems pointless. Guess it's true, I like to argue.

 

[icychic]

I think you are right about what exactly?

Also, I'm not looking for a pill or diet food. If I was I would have already tried one of the million that are on the market, but I haven't, because that's not what I am looking for.

And if you believe so much in your program with this fasting, why don't you get it peer reviewed, or prove to us it has been? Why not get people with money on board to help you promote it? Then you COULD be rich and famous. Which again is why I think you are a liar, and your study was either never peer reviewed because you knew it would get bad reviews due to lack of regulation and proper testing, OR it was peer reviewed and you are hiding that fact because the results were bad.

And again you ignore our questions. You simply are bashing on certain parts of our posts but are ignoring all of our straight forward questions.

How many people in the study?
How long did the study go for?
How many people dropped out and why and after how long?
What were the ages and weights of the people in the study?
You claim this is for adults, so what age is considered "adult"?
You claim this is for "healthy adults", what is considered "healthy"?
And if for only "healthy" adults how did your participants prove they were "healthy"?

"forget about breakfast" is NOT an attack on my family. That is just ridiculous and so far fetched and again NO PROOF! You still have provided no proof that not eating breakfast is better than eating any type of breakfast, healthy or otherwise.

Also stop calling me IC, if you would like to abbreviate icychic, it's ICY. Thank you.

I do not eat breakfast in the morning until I'm hungry. I'm up around 4:30AM and I usually eat between 9 and 11AM depending on the day. And no this is not where you come and say I "cop out" and eat breakfast because I'm not following your program so shut it.

You talk about your book again, but didn't you say it wasn't even published under your own name? So why didn't you take proper credit for this study if you believe so much in it?

Also I'm not on a diet, I am changing my lifestyle to eat better. "diets" fail because when people lose the weight and go back to their regular eating habits and not exercising they gain it all back. Your Tara patient said the same thing too, your "program" is a lifestyle change, you must never again eat breakfast in your life or you will gain back the weight like she did. Oh but I can't even say that because it hasn't been proven, then again neither has your fasting program so whatever. As for the exercise, again that's not just for the weight loss, that's because I'm unhealthy and I need to become healthier so that I feel better and have more energy during the day to enjoy life and do the things I want to do.

I don't care about what you write on this forum about Tara, Joann, or any of your other so called participants. And besides as I said before, Tara's own story that you posted showed that she doesn't follow it every day, so it is still a challenge even after the months she has been doing it. So while it may be a little easier, it's never second nature. Where with me changing my eating habits the way I am, it will become second nature. I already notice I don't crave those crappy foods nearly as much. I still slip up sure, but it's easier not to, and when I do I generally feel like crap after due to the lack of nutrition and I don't go back to it for a while.

You want me to believe in your study right? You want everyone to see how great it really is, correct?

SO WHERE IS THE EFFING LINK!!!!!!!!!!

 

[San2]

OK. Some are interested in Joann. Did I make her up? Here is her latest post to me. She previously dropped 15 pounds and is happy at her current weight. Admittedly, she is still obese, but the point is that she is comfortable with herself at that level, and that is fine.

So, she's following the 'program', and losing weight. If she stops following the 'program', she puts weight back on. Which proves clearly that she hasn't learned anything about how to eat properly, and it is no different than any other fad diet that can't be sustained properly. Unless you do the 'program' for the rest of your life, you'll be back to square one.

What made me laugh was 'she's still obese, but she's comfortable with it'. So the entire time you're harping on about how great the 'program' is, you're talking about somebody who's still fat, and who, despite your 'program', keeps yoyo-ing with her weight, and doesn't manage to get to a weight where she's no longer considered obese? Yeah....sounds like a brilliant program - if not learning how to eat properly, being forced to eat a certain way for the rest of your life, and staying at an unhealthy weight is what you want to achieve. If you actually want results, it doesn't seem to be so great.

And yeah....still waiting for straight answers. You would make a brilliant politician - you get asked a simple question, and in response you talk for 30 minutes, but you say absolutely nothing - and there's no answer to the question.

 

[icychic]

And yeah....still waiting for straight answers. You would make a brilliant politician - you get asked a simple question, and in response you talk for 30 minutes, but you say absolutely nothing - and there's no answer to the question.

Very well said And bang on with the rest of your post too.

 

[San2]

If people are put off by anything, it will most likely be your refusal to answer even the most basic questions which you were asked, time and time again, and your complete inability/unwillingness to read and comprehend the posts from other people.

I tell you something - you mentioned in another post that things are getting tiresome, and you are right. This entire farce is getting tiresome. So far, you have not supplied us with one tiny bit of evidence that your so called study ever took place, despite the fact that you have been asked numerous times by a variety of people.

Please go back through this thread, and note down the questions you were asked. Nothing else. And then answer them. Nothing else. If you are unwilling to do that, please refrain from posting anything relating to your 'study', your 'participants' or anything else of that sort ever again on this forum. If providing the information you were asked for so often is a problem for you, we have to assume that something about your so called 'study' is either bogus, or simply dangerous. Neither of which we are willing to promote on this forum.

This is not up for discussion, by the way.

 

[San2]

You called all of us around here liars, repeatedly. For that alone you should have been banned. You should consider yourself lucky that you're still around.

There is no point in talking to you, you simply are not able to comprehend what you are being told. I already did what you suggest. Exactly the way you suggest. It caused me to gain weight, and was a terribly unhealthy lifestyle. Even after months and months of skipping breakfast and fasting for 10 - 12 hours, I still over-ate, craved chocolate, and consumed too many calories during the times I ate. There is no magical rewiring of the brain, no automated healthy eating. That only exists in your head. There's your report.

As a medical professional, you should be able to understand facts. You refuse to do so.
As a medical professional, you should strive to learn from others. You refuse to do so.
As a medical professional, you should be able to present clear facts, and answer straight questions. You refuse to do so.

Let me be perfectly honest. I do not believe in you being a medical professional any more than I do believe in flying pigs.

And I do not have to convince anybody about banning you. Most people think you should have been banned months ago.

Now, this is a very simple question, and the answer just requires a simple yes or no. Do you think you can handle that? Okay, here we go -

Are you going to answer a single one of the questions that you have been asked by multiple people in this thread?