Drex Gets Focused: An Essay on Shenanigans
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if you will take 4 endurolytes (potassium sodium) at the 60 minute mark you will not experience that muscle running out of fluids like that.
also, with what G8r said on the drop off in later miles.... NOT the mentality you should be thinking, if you are still haunted by finsihing a marathon.
have a 9-10 min mile for the first 5, then flat 9' for 6-14, then a gradual increase thru 15-26 will serve you mush better.
it will also keep you from limping to the finish.
a negative split beats the hell out of a DNF.
train like you will race.
You may just be looking for people to say -"great run, super workout" and it definately is. BUT- with the amount of work you are putting in, if you will smartin up a bit, you will have the results you are looking for.
try to learn to have your best run on race day. You are a professional trainer, and you leave all your best performances on training runs.
do I have creditability- I have logged a sub 8 minute training run since you've known me.... but I did run the 1/2 mary in 1:39 (boston pace 7:33) It is called training control! Training! not "testing" yourself every day.
with weights- do you max every time you lift, or do you train? and do you increase your weights in increments that make sense?
retorical questions......
I care too much to just sit by and watch without offering a touch of my perspective.
FF
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08/03/08
Training
Ran 3.0 miles in 24 minutes @8.0 mm - PR!
1 hour of bball
Thoughts
Shaved another half a minute/mile off my 5k time. Meant to repeat that run, but this time my calves weren't having it. I'm choosing to interpret that as progress, since my knee is just peachy. I was really concentrating hard on keeping my toes pointed straight ahead and my - ****, I forget the word ff told me, my running form? - mellifluous. Springy even. This made it considerably more difficult muscularly, and I actually full on ran out of steam. I went to go do the second round and there was nothing in the tank, and my calves were tightening up alarmingly fast. Managed about 5 laps before I was done.
It's about 12 laps per mile on the track, and on that run I was moving at 8.5mm the first two miles, for the last one I slowly kicked it up from 8.5 to what I think was probably 6 mm at the end, there, for an average of about 7mm.
After that I challenged myself to a shoot-out, just for fun. The rules were I had to make 30 consecutive free throws (from the grown-up line, I promise) before I could go. Took me nearly an hour (for the first 30 minutes or so I couldn't even sink 'em from 10 feet away, haha), but I got it.
Does DNF mean Did Not Finish, there, ff? Also, stop apologizing every time you express yourself. It's irritating.
Training
Ran 3.0 miles in 24 minutes @8.0 mm - PR!
1 hour of bball
Thoughts
Shaved another half a minute/mile off my 5k time. Meant to repeat that run, but this time my calves weren't having it. I'm choosing to interpret that as progress, since my knee is just peachy. I was really concentrating hard on keeping my toes pointed straight ahead and my - ****, I forget the word ff told me, my running form? - mellifluous. Springy even. This made it considerably more difficult muscularly, and I actually full on ran out of steam. I went to go do the second round and there was nothing in the tank, and my calves were tightening up alarmingly fast. Managed about 5 laps before I was done.
It's about 12 laps per mile on the track, and on that run I was moving at 8.5mm the first two miles, for the last one I slowly kicked it up from 8.5 to what I think was probably 6 mm at the end, there, for an average of about 7mm.
After that I challenged myself to a shoot-out, just for fun. The rules were I had to make 30 consecutive free throws (from the grown-up line, I promise) before I could go. Took me nearly an hour (for the first 30 minutes or so I couldn't even sink 'em from 10 feet away, haha), but I got it.
Does DNF mean Did Not Finish, there, ff? Also, stop apologizing every time you express yourself. It's irritating.
That's too bad, Drexatron. Still a pretty damn good run, though, no?
I wonder what there is for preventatives/remedies for the cramping. I should really do some reading on this stuff so I have something useful to say, haha. I do it later tonight.
Afaik, tho, in your case it prob has a lot to do with hydration and the levels of minerals like cal and mag. And obviously, sodium and potassium. You sure you're keeping optimally hydrated? Also, I can't recall right now, I'm sorry, but are you taking creatine? 'Cause, y'know, ATP, contractures, blah blah.
I've honestly never even had a cramp, I don't think. That means I'm lazy, right?
I actually think it was a hydration/overuse issue. It is warmer than it was on my first run through the training and I think I will need to work on nutrition/hydration for the warmer condistions. I have also been working the hell out of my calves with biking, swimming, running, volleyball and weights. The cramp at least felt like a normal cramp and wasn't even similar to the issues I had a month ago. The one thing that concerns me a little is I have never had cramping issues on long runs before. It might sound weird, but the cramping problems I had a month ago were a totally different animal, this time they are more 'normal', but not something I have had an issue with running before.
The run was ok, I was more concerned with how I felt at the end. My plan was to finish with at least an 8:30 overall pace, so I did better than my goal.
I will pick up some of these and give them a try. Would you use them more than once on a 3-4 hour run, or just once at 60 minutes and good to go? I was using NUUN, for the first time, during this run. Here was my hydration/nutrition during the run. Hopefully you can help me get it straightened out. 1 NUUN mixed in 20 oz of water. I drank 1/4 of the NUUN drink at 4.1 miles and the remaining 3/4 at 12.5 miles. I took 2 accelerade gel packs at 8.3 miles and 1 more at 12.5 miles. I drank about 20 oz of water total. Had water at 8.3 and 12.5 miles. Total that is about 40 oz of liquid and 3 gels.
I 'try' to go at a pace that I feel I can maintain forever. I know for my 14 miler last week, my halfway pace and my finish pace were exactly the same. I can usually pace myself very well where I only slow down when I am finally drained of energy. Earlier this year I had a 23 mile run that I held pace the entire way through and still felt good at the end. This run felt different as it felt more like my legs were about ready to give up, even though I still had the energy to keep going. I think this was due to nutrition/hydration/overuse/pace, combo or all. It is warmer now that it was before. Also, since I started wearing the Garmin, I tend to check the pace fairly often. I don't think that is helping me hold my pace, just making me push a little harder than I should to up the pace.
Any recovery suggestions you have I am interested in as well. I am pushing it trying to get ready for the triathlon (2 weeks away). I do expect my runs to go a little smoother once I cut down on the swim and bike training.
I very much appreciate your input and help FF.
I follow everything you do hoping to learn something that may help me out. I am stubborn in some aspects and need to fail myself to learn, but I experiment with things I learn from you. The NUUN I tried this week was from hearing about it from you and Sparrow. I even bought a papaya this past weekend. And to top it off I had an ice bath after my 16 mile run this weekend.8/3/08
9:29 AM
Ran 4 miles outside, 33:34, 8:23 min/mile, Avg HR 144, Max HR 172.
3:00 PM
Bench Press - 135x10; 200x10; 200x10; 200x10
Lunge - 50x10; 110x10; 110x10; 110x10
Standing Bent-over Row - 135x10; 225x5; 225x5; 225x5; 225x5; 225x5
(ss1)Leg curl - 57.5x10; 57.5x10; 57.5x10 (each leg)
(ss1)One Leg Calf Raise - 150x10; 150x10; 150x10
(ss2)Lat Pull-down - 165x10; 165x10; 165x10
(ss2)Military Press - 105x10; 105x10; 105x10
(ss3)Close Grip Bench - 155x5; 155x5; 155x5; 155x5; 155x5
(ss3)Upright Row - 110x10; 110x10; 110x10
(ss4)Incline Fly - (45x2)x10; (45x2)x10; (45x2)x10
(ss4)Good Morning - 185x10; 185x10; 185x10
(ss5)Trunk Twist - 100x10; 100x10; 100x10 (each side)
(ss5)Frontal Raise - (20x2)x10; (20x2)x10; (20x2)x10
Played 6 games of volleyball, went 4-2.
Food:
9:29 AM
Ran 4 miles outside, 33:34, 8:23 min/mile, Avg HR 144, Max HR 172.
3:00 PM
Bench Press - 135x10; 200x10; 200x10; 200x10
Lunge - 50x10; 110x10; 110x10; 110x10
Standing Bent-over Row - 135x10; 225x5; 225x5; 225x5; 225x5; 225x5
(ss1)Leg curl - 57.5x10; 57.5x10; 57.5x10 (each leg)
(ss1)One Leg Calf Raise - 150x10; 150x10; 150x10
(ss2)Lat Pull-down - 165x10; 165x10; 165x10
(ss2)Military Press - 105x10; 105x10; 105x10
(ss3)Close Grip Bench - 155x5; 155x5; 155x5; 155x5; 155x5
(ss3)Upright Row - 110x10; 110x10; 110x10
(ss4)Incline Fly - (45x2)x10; (45x2)x10; (45x2)x10
(ss4)Good Morning - 185x10; 185x10; 185x10
(ss5)Trunk Twist - 100x10; 100x10; 100x10 (each side)
(ss5)Frontal Raise - (20x2)x10; (20x2)x10; (20x2)x10
Played 6 games of volleyball, went 4-2.
Food:
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Training
Ran 3.0 miles in 24 minutes @8.0 mm - PR!
1 hour of bball
Thoughts
Shaved another half a minute/mile off my 5k time. Meant to repeat that run, but this time my calves weren't having it. I'm choosing to interpret that as progress, since my knee is just peachy. I was really concentrating hard on keeping my toes pointed straight ahead and my - ****, I forget the word ff told me, my running form? - mellifluous. Springy even. This made it considerably more difficult muscularly, and I actually full on ran out of steam. I went to go do the second round and there was nothing in the tank, and my calves were tightening up alarmingly fast. Managed about 5 laps before I was done.
It's about 12 laps per mile on the track, and on that run I was moving at 8.5mm the first two miles, for the last one I slowly kicked it up from 8.5 to what I think was probably 6 mm at the end, there, for an average of about 7mm.
After that I challenged myself to a shoot-out, just for fun. The rules were I had to make 30 consecutive free throws (from the grown-up line, I promise) before I could go. Took me nearly an hour (for the first 30 minutes or so I couldn't even sink 'em from 10 feet away, haha), but I got it.
Does DNF mean Did Not Finish, there, ff? Also, stop apologizing every time you express yourself. It's irritating.
Good job on the runnign Focus, keep it up! I used to play basketball, 30 consecutive free throws is no easy task. Most people would still be there. I have been tempted at times to join a league, but it doesn't fit in very well with my marathon and tri training.
About an hour and a half for what I am doing right now.
Also, I can't recall right now, I'm sorry, but are you taking creatine? 'Cause, y'know, ATP, contractures, blah blah.
I need more info on this. I am taking creatine and I had recently looked into muscle spasms and it had some info dealing with creatine and ATP, but I am not very familiar with all of it. Lately, I get many muscle spasms in my calves after exercise, maybe as high as 120 per minute that gradually slow down over time. I think it is due to overuse of the calf, but may a creatine suppliment add to the spasms?
Gracias, amigo.
Yeah, I honestly figured I'd have to take the walk of shame home. But it seems I have a tolerable athletic learning curve. The worst part was I made it to 22 at one point and got ****y... when I started again I was much more careful. :11doh:
I've always avoided the thought of playing actual basketball because of the whole "mobility = high risk of injury" thing. I would hate to lose a couple of weeks or more of training over an inconsequential game.
Yes, that is the reason I have been avoiding it. I have had many sprained ankles throughout my basketball days. One was so bad it swole up and turned purple about 6 inches up my leg and all the way to my toes. I even suffered a broken collarbone during a game, that put me out for a little while. I still have a dent in my collarbone where it didn't fill back in all the way when it healed.
Dizzang.
I have a friend who was fairly serious into basketball, but she kept getting concussions. Her team doc kicked her out for 10 months to rest up. She has some hardcore short term memory loss. I find it quite disturbing. Hilarious, also, sometimes, but mostly, "Why would you do that to yourself?" Funny how basketball is supposedly a "non-contact" sport, hey? I see way less injuries in say, football, hockey and even friggen rugby. XD
Yup. Definitely gonna stick to shooting free throws and just messing about with some lay-ups and practicing little tricks and such. What I really want to do is find someone to play squash with... or get a head start on the swimming. As a kid I was like a fish in the water.
ICE BATH!! nice welcome to my world... hahahaaha what a deal that is eh!
your post made me very happy. You work so hard, and I have so much respect, intrusion is not my aim.
That papaya is supposed to put lead in yer pencil too.. sorta expensive.
think of the nuun as sports drink, in my opinion. The endurolytes are at each 60 minutes, but I do not take them prior to the run. I take 4 at each 60 minutes.
I also take my gels at every 30. But to keep things interesting to think about, and reward my plan is approx-
take off, 30 minutes smooth - gel and water
60- endurolytes X 4 / water
1:15 gel/water
1:30 water - two swallows
1:45 water / gel <I missed this one. I take a gel every 30 minutes on the 15.
2:00 endurolytes x 4 / water
2:15 gel / water
2:30 water
2:45 gel / water
and so on...
after you experiement with this a bit, you can actually feel the gel impact at about 8 minutes after consumption. the endurolytes will take about 10-12 minutes.
ALSO - for me, I sweat like a dog, if I drop a sodium (1 grm) at 2 hours I can feel my "spring come back"
to get your "hammer my body" rocks off, use your speed day to run 4:1, meaning RPE 7-8 for 4 minutes (if 4 is too long, then slow the pace, not shorten the time), and RPE 2-3 for 1 minutes, repeat for duration of run.... then MAX for finishing kick.
your post made me very happy. You work so hard, and I have so much respect, intrusion is not my aim.
That papaya is supposed to put lead in yer pencil too.. sorta expensive.
think of the nuun as sports drink, in my opinion. The endurolytes are at each 60 minutes, but I do not take them prior to the run. I take 4 at each 60 minutes.
I also take my gels at every 30. But to keep things interesting to think about, and reward my plan is approx-
take off, 30 minutes smooth - gel and water
60- endurolytes X 4 / water
1:15 gel/water
1:30 water - two swallows
1:45 water / gel <I missed this one. I take a gel every 30 minutes on the 15.
2:00 endurolytes x 4 / water
2:15 gel / water
2:30 water
2:45 gel / water
and so on...
after you experiement with this a bit, you can actually feel the gel impact at about 8 minutes after consumption. the endurolytes will take about 10-12 minutes.
ALSO - for me, I sweat like a dog, if I drop a sodium (1 grm) at 2 hours I can feel my "spring come back"
to get your "hammer my body" rocks off, use your speed day to run 4:1, meaning RPE 7-8 for 4 minutes (if 4 is too long, then slow the pace, not shorten the time), and RPE 2-3 for 1 minutes, repeat for duration of run.... then MAX for finishing kick.
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Oh, the odds on that are pretty low, but possibly what he's describing. Just talking about contractures (constant but usually manageable muscle spasms that gradually worsen if the cause remains unaddressed) due to ATP depletion. I know some people who get those after a while, is all. The hydration stuff is far more likely the culprit, but I imagine creatine would help to some extent. I would be taking it. Certainly can't hurt.
It was interesting... I will be keeping this up after my long runs.
I have much respect for you FF and am glad you take the time to help me out and that you give it to me straight.
LOL, nice side benefit.
Order has been placed. I should have these prior to my next long run this coming weekend.
Great info! What are you currently using to carry everything with you? I hate carrying anything on me I don't need to and usually make 4/5 mile loops and grab my water when I come around. If I use 4 mile loops, I am a little over a half hour. I used a waist camelback on my last 8 mile run and even that seemed cumbersome this last time. I just wanted to drink all the water out of it so I didn't have the extra weight. At 5 miles I dropped it at the house and felt so much better without it around my waist. It is the best thing I have used so far though.
I sweat a lot too. I have come in up to 8 lbs under the weight I left at on some of my long runs.
I actually want to use something like this next year during training. I don't feel I am ready for it until I get a descent time on a marathon.
Oh, the odds on that are pretty low, but possibly what he's describing. Just talking about contractures (constant but usually manageable muscle spasms that gradually worsen if the cause remains unaddressed) due to ATP depletion. I know some people who get those after a while, is all. The hydration stuff is far more likely the culprit, but I imagine creatine would help to some extent. I would be taking it. Certainly can't hurt.
hmmm, from what I had read, it could be the creatine that causes the muscle spasms/cramps, although the odds were very very slim.
8 lbs is what I can lose too. they say 2% of overall body weight is in the dehydration zone, but my experience shows I can lose alot more than that.
anyhow--
I use my lil nifty pouchy thing.. her eI will show you,,, I am just getting ready for 2.5 hours, 16 miles at 4m, heat of the day. I am time of day and heat trainign because I am doing the 3rd leg of an ironman on the 31st at Plymouth MA.
6 gels (1 extra)
2 endurolyte setups, in their own lil baggies so there is no struggle.
1 grahm of sodium for the 2 hour mark
1 honey stick - just a nice treat to have if feeling like it
then one water bottle, and I will look for a refill at the 45 and 1:30 mark, and I will drink a protein shake as soon as I get home.
shoes, shorts, hat, glasses, and I'm outta here....
SWEAT DAILY!!!
FF
anyhow--
I use my lil nifty pouchy thing.. her eI will show you,,, I am just getting ready for 2.5 hours, 16 miles at 4
m, heat of the day. I am time of day and heat trainign because I am doing the 3rd leg of an ironman on the 31st at Plymouth MA.6 gels (1 extra)
2 endurolyte setups, in their own lil baggies so there is no struggle.
1 grahm of sodium for the 2 hour mark
1 honey stick - just a nice treat to have if feeling like it
then one water bottle, and I will look for a refill at the 45 and 1:30 mark, and I will drink a protein shake as soon as I get home.
shoes, shorts, hat, glasses, and I'm outta here....
SWEAT DAILY!!!
FF
08/04/08
Training
Ran 1.7 miles in 14.5 minutes @ 8.5mm
A1 BB Bench Press 45x5, 65x5, 115x5, 125x3, 135x3, 145x1, 135x2, 135x0
B1 Pull-ups -90x18, -90x12
C1 CS Row 25x10, 15x12x2
C2 DB "Power Clean" 35x10x2, 35x9
D1 CG Bench Press 70x12, 70x9, 70x7
E1 BB Power Shrug 235x15, 235x13, 235x10
E2 BB Power Curl 65x12, 65x10, 65x4
F1 Bar Hold 135x40s,15s; 135x45s,25s; 135x40s,20s
Thoughts
Actually somewhat pleased with that bench, as I didn't have a spotter to pull it out of the hole for me. Figured out why it felt like my forearms were the issue - it was the pronation. With my grip set right, it has become very obvious (and much more making-of-the-sense) that it is in fact my triceps that are the limiting factor. My sticking point is about 80% through the movement. Weight powers off the chest and gets stuck shortly before locking out.
I enjoyed the increase in volume, felt good. And the fake power cleans are so much better than face pulls. That was a brutal superset. Pride took a pretty good hit there on the cs row, but I'm used to it by now. XD
It is confirmed that my limiting factor in every single lift is my arms. Even my squat! Kidding. But my hypers, yeah, if I hadn't switched to reverses. Not really sure where I'm gonna do those, though. Don't think the Y has the machine (meant to check today), but I'll figure something out.
Time to get my DDR on. :SaiyanSmilie_anim:
Training
Ran 1.7 miles in 14.5 minutes @ 8.5mm
A1 BB Bench Press 45x5, 65x5, 115x5, 125x3, 135x3, 145x1, 135x2, 135x0
B1 Pull-ups -90x18, -90x12
C1 CS Row 25x10, 15x12x2
C2 DB "Power Clean" 35x10x2, 35x9
D1 CG Bench Press 70x12, 70x9, 70x7
E1 BB Power Shrug 235x15, 235x13, 235x10
E2 BB Power Curl 65x12, 65x10, 65x4
F1 Bar Hold 135x40s,15s; 135x45s,25s; 135x40s,20s
Thoughts
Actually somewhat pleased with that bench, as I didn't have a spotter to pull it out of the hole for me. Figured out why it felt like my forearms were the issue - it was the pronation. With my grip set right, it has become very obvious (and much more making-of-the-sense) that it is in fact my triceps that are the limiting factor. My sticking point is about 80% through the movement. Weight powers off the chest and gets stuck shortly before locking out.
I enjoyed the increase in volume, felt good. And the fake power cleans are so much better than face pulls. That was a brutal superset. Pride took a pretty good hit there on the cs row, but I'm used to it by now. XD
It is confirmed that my limiting factor in every single lift is my arms. Even my squat! Kidding. But my hypers, yeah, if I hadn't switched to reverses. Not really sure where I'm gonna do those, though. Don't think the Y has the machine (meant to check today), but I'll figure something out.
Time to get my DDR on. :SaiyanSmilie_anim:
Thanks FF, I have a couple of the waist belts and those work very well for the gels. I just don't like to carry the water.
8/4/08
Biked 9.34 miles, 37:52, 14.8 mph, Avg HR 110, Max HR 131.
Ran 6.15 miles, 50:57, 8:17 min/mile, Avg HR 138, Max HR 154.
I didn't look at my watch at all during this run and just ran it at a comfortable pace. My legs were swollen, stiff and sore at the start of the run and felt good at the end considering.
Food:
8/4/08
Biked 9.34 miles, 37:52, 14.8 mph, Avg HR 110, Max HR 131.
Ran 6.15 miles, 50:57, 8:17 min/mile, Avg HR 138, Max HR 154.
I didn't look at my watch at all during this run and just ran it at a comfortable pace. My legs were swollen, stiff and sore at the start of the run and felt good at the end considering.
Food:
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