Do you think it's unhealthy...

i figured someone would refute this.
i am talking about the spiritual detriments of allowing lusts to occupy your mind and indulging in it continuously.
im not sure whether or not the physical action of masturbating is unhealthy or not-probably not.
The sin is within the mind and the motives of the heart.
They're only " thoughts " and " fantasies " for crying out loud ! So long as they stay that way and don't manifest themselves into actions, they are of no harm to anyone.
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this is where a lot of people go wrong. thoughts are important!
if we are constantly thinking evil, will we do good?
If we are constantly focusing on pure things, will we commit evil?
If one constantly thinks of death, will he produce life?
If one thinks and meditates on perversion, will his life produce purity?
Thoughts can pollute...and thoughts can nurture...i know there are evil thoughts and pure thoughts...and that they effect me and others around me based on how the thoughts influence me and how i act.
Yet, that is where most will say "well you can control your thoughts and it doesnt matter as long as you dont express the negative ones"
In a sense, it is true that if you control your thoughts/desires that you probably wont hurt others.
But if your mind is constantly focused on whatever it wants, not filtering or shielding itself from wrong things(sexual immorality, murderous hateful thoughts ect) it will affect the person who gave permission to those thoughts to remain.

The Bible doesnt specifically say anywhere that masturbation is wrong. Yet it does talk about your thoughts and lusts. Porn is often associated with masturbation; porn is a way many fulfill lusts.
I dont think Jesus would masturbate.

Yeah and i remember seeing that Dateline program with a catholic priest trying to have sex with a young boy. its a pity that he gave into that temptation.

i am only trying to share the truth...i dont want to argue. the world has a way of giving in to whatever feels good though. The way to life is narrow but the path to destruction is wide and welcoming.

again..i dont want to offend but if someone doesnt accept that there is good and evil, right and wrong, God and satan will struggle to accept this. the first step is to realize that there is a God and its not you.
 
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Proteinboy said:
I dont think Jesus would masturbate.
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PB,

Welcome to the out of context thread..

<3 mreik :yelrotflmao:
 
You seem to assume that bad thoughts come from masturbation, I disagree, good thoughts come from masturbation. It is not only physically good for you, but mentally as well.

Are all lusts bad? what about the lust to procreate? If having sex is OK, what makes masturbation not ok? is it because there is no "meaning" to it other than feeling good?
Why is it so that everything that feels good, must be bad? If we never let ourselves feel good, we will go nuts.
 
Proteinboy said:
i figured someone would refute this.
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You got that right at least.;)

Proteinboy said:
i am talking about the spiritual detriments of allowing lusts to occupy your mind and indulging in it continuously.
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Well, I'm NOT talking about " indulging in it "...i.e acting upon it..

That's why I said...." So long as " thoughts " and " fantasies " stay that way and don't manifest themselves into actions, they are of no harm to anyone "

Proteinboy said:
im not sure whether or not the physical action of masturbating is unhealthy or not-probably not.
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It's not........talk to your GP.

Proteinboy said:
The sin is within the mind and the motives of the heart.
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And......deeds speak.

Proteinboy said:
this is where a lot of people go wrong. thoughts are important! if we are constantly thinking evil, will we do good?
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Here's your first mistake.

Having healthy sexual " thoughts " and " fantasies " is not evil......it's normal.

Ask your GP and or any sex therapist for more details as to why.

Proteinboy said:
If we are constantly focusing on pure things, will we commit evil?
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Thinking of healthy sex - and the enjoyment of sex - IS a pure - and normal - thing to do IMO.


Proteinboy said:
If one constantly thinks of death, will he produce life? If one thinks and meditates on perversion, will his life produce purity ?
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Thoughts of healthy sex, acts of masturbation is NOT perversion...it's normal.

Ask your GP and or any sex therapist for more details as to why.

Proteinboy said:
Thoughts can pollute...and thoughts can nurture...i know there are evil thoughts and pure thoughts...and that they effect me and others around me based on how the thoughts influence me and how i act.
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The fact that you concede you have evil thoughts at times is commendable. Good for you.

If you want to think that thoughts of sex, acts of masturbation is evil because your GOD says it is...then I can't help you. A belief is a belief.

You can think what you want.

Proteinboy said:
Yet, that is where most will say "well you can control your thoughts and it doesnt matter as long as you dont express the negative ones"
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You can express " negative ones " - it's called free speech in America.

Proteinboy said:
In a sense, it is true that if you control your thoughts/desires that you probably wont hurt others.
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Most Catholic priests are able to do this - thank God !

Proteinboy said:
But if your mind is constantly focused on whatever it wants, not filtering or shielding itself from wrong things (sexual immorality, murderous hateful thoughts ect) it will affect the person who gave permission to those thoughts to remain.
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Not everyone has thoughts of " sexual immorality, murderous hateful thoughts " - I'm talking about thoughts of healthy sex ( sex acts ) and acts of masturbation.

Proteinboy said:
The Bible doesnt specifically say anywhere that masturbation is wrong
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Just as I suspected.

Proteinboy said:
Yet it does talk about your thoughts and lusts. Porn is often associated with masturbation; porn is a way many fulfill lusts.
I dont think Jesus would masturbate.
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I think Jesus - at least as pre-teen / teen / young adult - would have masturbated. Absolutely !

Proteinboy said:
Yeah and i remember seeing that Dateline program with a catholic priest trying to have sex with a young boy. its a pity that he gave into that temptation
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Sex with a young boy is not a normal temptation IMO ...it is a perversion.

Proteinboy said:
i am only trying to share the truth...i dont want to argue.
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It's only your version of the " truth "...remember that.

Proteinboy said:
the world has a way of giving in to whatever feels good though. The way to life is narrow but the path to destruction is wide and welcoming..
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Very profound.

Proteinboy said:
again..i dont want to offend but if someone doesnt accept that there is good and evil, right and wrong, God and satan will struggle to accept this. the first step is to realize that there is a God and its not you.
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There is a certainty of GOD only in your little world Proteinboy - not everyone else's.

btw - you never answered the last question I put to you. So, I'll ask you again.......

" As a devout Christian....... at what age did you stop masturbating ? "​
 
having sex is good when its your wife and not someone you just want physically.
again...the world will deny this and say its ok to have sex with anyone you want because its fun and nothing bad will happen(hopefully). they say its good as long as you dont reap the physical consequence(STDs), but they dont realize the spiritual detriments of allowing your body to be shared with multiple partners.

If someone refuses to believe this, it could be that s/he is attached to sex(maybe controlled by it) and s/he will automatically cast down any moral responsibility and say its ok to have sex with anyone. Its easy to believe and follow the philosophy that takes all responsibility off a person and says that a person exists to fulfill his/her own desires alone.

its a prophesy that people would claim that good is evil and evil is good. lust is not good... envy isnt good...masturbation isnt good for the spirit.
lusting and mentally fantisizing about someone you dont have is like envying someone else's possesion. you dont have it and you want it, so you act on it to fulfill your own lack of partnership. (i dont mean "you" ...i have done it too. im guilty too. i dont want to come off as self rightous)

It might feel good physically and seem ok mentally but its not healthy...
some things that feel good are bad!
drugs can make you feel good but they are bad...
things can physically feel good and be spiritually bad because they are not mutually inclusive. just because one is true doesnt make the other.

doing the right thing doesnt always feel good but your spirit can always rejoice.
example: someone drops some cash and you see him drop it and he doesnt notice. you pick it up and give it back to him because its the right thing to do. some people would just like to keep the money because what they will buy with it will make them happy; its selfish. Yet people with integrity will care more about the other person and give back the dropped money and feel good because you helped that person avoid dissapointment.

just because it feels good doesnt make it right :]
 
Wrangell, the difference between our views is simply our view of sex.

I believe that sex is very healthy and perfectly normal when used correctly with the wife or husband.
The family is supposed to be united...it is sacred. when sex is used in dedication with a wife and when the two are responsible for the potential children( to love and nurture them and not neglect or abhor them as an unexpected result of satisfying the flesh), sex is very healthy.

However, when there is "free love" and "do it as much as you want kuz it feels good, lulz", then there is no dedication, there is no real love, there is no unity between the two lovers; it is just fulfilling self. It leads to terrible things...abuse, neglect, abortions, dumpster babies...ect.

To relate this all to masturbation...i believe that lusting in the heart and allowing it is just as wrong as commiting adultery in the flesh(i believe adultery is wrong).
I think this is where we disagree.
I agree that there is "healthy sex" but when sex is with anyone but the wife, it is unhealthy because i believe in the family(1 mate), not free love.
I guess we have a disagreement between whether or not thoughts affect oneself(and his/her actions) and what is considered a "bad thought".
as i stated, adultery is wrong, which is why i abstain from lusts.

as for the last question...i stopped at the age when i realized the truth. 17 >.> why?
 
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Sex with a young boy is not a normal temptation IMO ...it is a perversion.
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yea, it is a perversion. but i doubt it came out of the blue.
i think it developed from other perversions by constantly allowing sex to occupy and corrupt the mind, constantly wanting more and more, new thrills, new lusts to fulfill.
he probably was addicted to pornography and the thrill it gave him wore off after a while. He wanted more; the beast within him grew and it demanded more. It eventually lead him to meet children online and eventually actually go to the kids house. His feeding of his "normal desires" lead to a manifest action of perversion.
inward thoughts affect the thinker and eventually can lead to outward actions.
 
I didn't realize that people still thought that masterbation was wrong...wow.

See my problem with it is that I love having a guy close to me, kissing/biting him, feeling him. I love taking a part of him. Looking into his eyes and smelling him. It's so intimate.
 
To PB,

Who ever said that you have to lust or fantasize about anyone when you masturbate?

Masturbation does not equal lust. It is self fulfillment and self love.

It's a way to get to know yourself, psychically, emotionally and spiritually. It's a part of a healthy everyday life. Just like you get in touch with certain parts of your body and brain by working out in the gym, you do the same when you masturbate.

Sexual energy is about more than the body. Like you said, it's shallow to just focus on physical lust. Masturbating because you feel physically deprived is different than masturbating for the spiritual benefit of it.

We are never physically sexually deprived because we have ourselves. We have our own bodies to love and fantasize about. If you believe thinking sexual thoughts about others is sinful, then why not think sexual thoughts about yourself? I'm not saying that sexual fantasies about others are sinful, I'm just saying that if you think they are, then there are alternatives.

If you deprive your sexual self of attention and love, it will wither and decay. Think about what would happen to your muscles if you laid around in bed for months on end. They would atrophy. Sexuality is a part of the spirit, and if you suppress it by calling it a sin, that part of your spirit would wither away.

Sexuality is often confused with pornography, promiscuity and irresponsible behavior. Don't confuse it with these things. Sexuality is anything that makes you feel good about your mind and your body. It is the mind/body connection that is within us all.

As human beings, we are full of energy. Creative energy, physical energy, the energy of love, and sexual energy. If we are deficient in any of these areas, then we are not being our full selves. Now that, in my book, is a sin.

Again, sexuality is about more than physical desire for another person. That can be a part of it. But it doesn't always have to be. It is so complex and deep that it takes a lot of time to realize that it's about more than the media portrays it.

This is all coming from someone who has never had intercourse, yet I feel fulfilled.

There's another side to this. I just thought you might enjoy seeing it...
 
well nobody said thats what you HAVE to do but its what most guys do lol(porn)
most guys

what is the spiritual benefit from masturbating? self realization? iv done it plenty and i havent benefited anything! even when i didnt think it was wrong i always felt guilty about doing it.
i feel much better now in my spirit!
given, i was abusing pron but i wouldnt do it in love to myself lol that just sounds strange to masturbate to your own masturbation >.>
im not sexually attracted to myself...im a guy and i am sexually attracted to women. not men. im a man.
thats wierd if someone is honestly sexually attracted to themself imo...we were created male and female to be attracted to eachother(this is a whole nother argument i just opened >< sorry)

and iv been abstaining for a while and my sexuality hasnt withered away haha i just dont give place to any wrong thoughts of lust.

but do you agree with me that porn is wrong? you seem to state that pornography is a confusion of sexuality? :]
 
Well, on pornography, I just personally don't like it. It doesn't turn me on. Therefore it's not a part of my sexuality, and it doesn't have to be.

I know the idea of being "attracted" to yourself seems kind of weird. But it's not in the kind of way you're thinking. It simply means loving and respecting yourself and believing that you are a beautiful being. Being attracted to yourself doesn't mean you want to have sex with yourself or with others of the same sex (not that there's anything wrong with that) it just means you appreciate yourself for the beauty that you have.

Here's the deal. You can achieve sexual satisfaction and release without these "lustful" thoughts you speak of. You don't have to look at porn, you don't have to fantasize about other people if the idea bothers you. Like I said, there's a completely different side to sexuality and the media does a terrible job of showing it.

And as for the benefit, if you're doing it right, then it should be spiritually cleansing. If you feel guilty or dirty afterwards, then you're approaching it in the wrong way, you're doing the wrong things. The point is to do what feels good and right. If you do that, you will attain spiritual and physical satisfaction without the guilt. But it's up to you to define what that satisfaction is. One thing is for certain, if you are feeling guilty, there's something wrong. Guilt is a bad thing. In my book, it is a sin.

Also, you probably felt guilty because you knew you weren't being true to yourself. There's a way to do it and not feel guilty, but you have to figure that out for yourself. There's nothing dirty or wrong about loving yourself.
 
Masturbation does not equal lust. It is self fulfillment and self love
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different than masturbating for the spiritual benefit of it.
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you say spiritual benefit can come from self fulfillment, giving into your fleshly desires and indulging in yourself in order to make yourself feel good?

I say the opposite. there is spiritual benefit when you begin to give others fulfillment, make others feel good even at self's cost, denying the desires of the flesh, casting down imaginations, strongholds and everything that contradicts the word of God, and controling your hormones and urges instead of letting them control you.

there is much spiritual growth when one can control his/herself against any thought and any desire; not when you give in and consent to your thoughts and desires.

who cannot give in to his/her own desires? its easy. if that really helped the spirit grow, everyone would be a spiritual giant.

i am glad you dont like pornography. i just cannot relate to how the spirit can grow from giving in to anything you feel.

but guilt is not a sin. guilt can lead to repentance.
for example, if you wrong your neighbor by stealing from him/her and you feel no guilt from it, you may be decieved that theres nothing wrong with it since you dont feel bad. however, if one feels guilty, and integrity starts to kick in, the person might repent and stay away from that sin in the future.
guilt is not good long term...it is like pain. touch a hot stove and it hurts. so you know not to do it again.
yet the answer to solving guilt isnt to lower the bar so that you dont feel bad about what you are doing; its to stop doing whats wrong(stop touching the hot stove)
 
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Proteinboy said:
you say spiritual benefit can come from self fulfillment, giving into your fleshly desires and indulging in yourself in order to make yourself feel good?

I say the opposite. there is spiritual benefit when you begin to give others fulfillment, make others feel good even at self's cost, denying the desires of the flesh, casting down imaginations, strongholds and everything that contradicts the word of God, and controling your hormones and urges instead of letting them control you.

there is much spiritual growth when one can control his/herself against any thought and any desire; not when you give in and consent to your thoughts and desires.
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What you are failing to realize is that it is not just a desire of the "flesh" it is a necessity for a whole life.

What about eating? That's a physical desire. Should we not eat so we can feed everyone else? I don't think so. For if we fail to eat, we starve the body and eventually die. Then what good are we?

I understand the idea of not being selfish. That is one of the huge factors in the desert religions. Yes, we should do all we can do to improve the lives of others. But that does not mean we should ignore ourselves.

I lived a life of ignoring my own needs in order to try to fulfill others needs. It didn't work so well. I wasn't happy, and the people around me weren't happy. The fact is, you can't be your whole self if your needs aren't being met, and if you aren't being your full self, you can't fully help others.

And as for control, masturbation is a form of control. It is a safe and effective way to meet sexual needs without indulging in promiscuous behaviour.

The thing is, you have to figure out what works for you. If your life of self deprivation leaves you feeling happy, full and true, then it's working for you. But if you feel guilty, unworthy, or that you're not good enough, then it's not working for you and you need to make a change.

One thing that we tend to do when we are not happy or secure with our own beliefs is we tend to bring other's beliefs down. I respect your religious views, and it's clear that you have found some satisfaction in them. But true confidence in your own beliefs means letting others believe what they want to believe. Don't compare yourself to others, and don't compare others to yourself.

We all live by our own moral and spiritual guidelines. Thank goodness we are free to believe what we want to believe. Here's the bottom line (because I don't feel like debating anymore), if you're happy, then don't change a thing. If you feel unsatisfied, guilty or bad, then you need to make a change. A religion/spirituality should enhance your life, not make it worse. Don't feel pressured to prescribe to just one religion or set of beliefs because it seems right. If it isn't making you happy, then it's not working.
 
yea! :D
im glad to be able to talk with you guys in an understanding way. wev shared what we believe and now the descision is up to us.

chillen when did you get here!
 
aww :] me2
i gtg and sleep! its an hour over my bedtime! LOL
have a great friday everyone!
 
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