Bigger, Stronger, Faster

[Phate89]

Last I heard the "governator" was helping old ladies cross the street and there was talk of legislation for high school coaches to teach student athletes the dangers of steroids. Celebrities and politicians are "allowed" to preach what they have not practiced.

Arnold says what he says, cause he is a politician. It would be politically stupid to back steroids.

But he knows the truth

 

[evolution]

You mean some random person on the internet says is their experience? Hey, phate, if you eat bananas all day for one day, your weiner will get bigger. i know, some guy on the internet told me he experienced it.

Hey...do you think that will work with plums? I really love plums.

 

[Hoss]

Wow, I'm all for listening to experience, I think it leads the way for science to follow up and start to explain. But neither can be dismissed as worthless, they need to be used side by side.

You've used Mreik as an example in your sig as to why experience beats science but Mreik is probably also the most educated in human biology on this site and his knowledge of androgens is second to none. I think he just chooses to keep quite to avoid being pulled into discussions with internet experts

My girlfriend went on steriods for a blood disorder recently so I asked Mreik about them and straight off the bat he told me everything the doctors already had along with lots of other interesting stuff too on how to stay safe while on them and things to look out for.

He may well have experience of their use (I don't know if he has or not) but his knowledge is underpinned by a vast knowledge of the science behind them and their effects on the body so he would be well placed to be able to take them safely.
I imagine Arnold is also pretty knowledgeable on the subject

Group Hug ::sniff sniff::

On a side note, we need to up your anti-estrogens Ty :yelrotflmao:

 

[rideandshoot]

I cant help but feel slightly like all the people making all the excuses for steroids are sort of doing what a thief does when excusing him self by thinking the people he's stealing from are wealthy and don't need the things he's stealing, because its what he wants to believe, and the way he wishes it was, but really he knows its not entirely true.

edited to add: but as long as you're 18+, its your body. I think you should be allowed to do whatever you please with it, so long as it doesnt harm anyone else.

and that conspiracy theory nearly made me blow my protein shake out of my nose.

 

[Typhon]

I cant help but feel slightly like all the people making all the excuses for steroids are sort of doing what a thief does when excusing him self by thinking the people he's stealing from are wealthy and don't need the things he's stealing, because its what he wants to believe, and the way he wishes it was, but really he knows its not entirely true.

I don't quite understand the relevance of the analogy

Steroids can and have been taken safely by many for a number of years but they have the potential to do a lot of damage if taken without the right level of knowledge and guidence. I think that's the general feedback I've got from the thread. I can't see how that's making an 'excuse' for steroids

 

[Big_Idiot]

Lets all do a course of steroids, cycle on and off for 2 years. Then we'll wait another 10+ years and see who has problems and who doesn't.

We can be an experiment

 

[Typhon]

Lets all do a course of steroids, cycle on and off for 2 years. Then we'll wait another 10+ years and see who has problems and who doesn't.

We can be an experiment

Do you fancy sticking that up in the member challenges section? :yelrotflmao:

 

[Big_Idiot]

Do you fancy sticking that up in the member challenges section? :yelrotflmao:

LOL, that made me laugh.

 

[vaecicla]

I don't quite understand the relevance of the analogy

Steroids can and have been taken safely by many for a number of years but they have the potential to do a lot of damage if taken without the right level of knowledge and guidence. I think that's the general feedback I've got from the thread. I can't see how that's making an 'excuse' for steroids

My personal opinion may be swayed against steroids by the vast amount of bad publicity against them but why are they banned from the Olympics if they are "squeaky clean"? Only last week some champion biker was barred from the Olympics because of blood doping. Though he is a medical student he still obtained them from "criminal sources".

 

[Typhon]

My personal opinion may be swayed against steroids by the vast amount of bad publicity against them but why are they banned from the Olympics if they are "squeaky clean"?

Firstly because they're illegal in most countries and secondly because it makes an uneven playing field. Those that use steroids will have an advantage and those that get supplied better quality gear will have an advantage over others that was made in a lab rather than with their own efforts.

I have nothing against steroids but I do back them being banned from the Olympics.

 

[[Focus]]

Firstly because they're illegal in most countries and secondly because it makes an uneven playing field. Those that use steroids will have an advantage and those that get supplied better quality gear will have an advantage over others that was made in a lab rather than with their own efforts.

I have nothing against steroids but I do back them being banned from the Olympics.

Those with access to better resources, be they material or cognitive, will always have an advantage. To limit steroids but not other things only widens the gap, as only the athletes who can obtain the undetectable stuff are able to compete at all.

It's not about what's right. It's about public perception. Just as the rest of human sociodynamics. This is why democracy is the worst of all possible political ideologies.

 

[Karky]

Those with access to better resources, be they material or cognitive, will always have an advantage. To limit steroids but not other things only widens the gap, as only the athletes who can obtain the undetectable stuff are able to compete at all.

It's not about what's right. It's about public perception. Just as the rest of human sociodynamics. This is why democracy is the worst of all possible political ideologies.

Democracy doesn't work when the majority of people are idiots

 

[[Focus]]

Democracy doesn't work when the majority of people are idiots

Which is always, by definition.

 

[Typhon]

To limit steroids but not other things only widens the gap, as only the athletes who can obtain the undetectable stuff are able to compete at all.

I think it's better to aim for unattainable goals than to sacrifice your ideals

 

[vaecicla]

Those with access to better resources, be they material or cognitive, will always have an advantage. To limit steroids but not other things only widens the gap, as only the athletes who can obtain the undetectable stuff are able to compete at all.

It's not about what's right. It's about public perception. Just as the rest of human sociodynamics. This is why democracy is the worst of all possible political ideologies.

Steroids are over-rated IMO. Why do skinny runners from Asia/Africa do well at the Olympics if it was down to the "latest" technology and training by better equipped Western athletes? Hard work and guts pays off for them. There is no recognized medical authority that says "steroids if used under the guidance of a physician are okay".

 

[Typhon]

This is why democracy is the worst of all possible political ideologies.

[QUOTE='Winston Churchill]Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time. - Winston Churchill, 1947[/QUOTE]

I think he hit the nail on the head there

 

[[Focus]]

I think it's better to aim for unattainable goals than to sacrifice your ideals

False dichotomy. Which is to say, irrational.

If your intent is to level the playing field, the closest thing would be to simply remove all of the restrictions that are not direct corollaries of the rules of the game. He who has the best combination of gear, training and knowledge is the victor. Just like everything else in life. Why should sport be held up to some nonsensical double standard?

 

[Typhon]

There is no recognized medical authority that says "steroids if used under the guidance of a physician are okay".

Why are they prescribed very frequently for people with muscular development problems then?

 

[[Focus]]

There is no recognized medical authority that says "steroids if used under the guidance of a physician are okay".

What is a "medical authority"?

Steroids are over-rated IMO. Why do skinny runners from Asia/Africa do well at the Olympics if it was down to the "latest" technology and training by better equipped Western athletes? Hard work and guts pays off for them.

Apples to oranges. How would steroids benefit an athlete in an event where having as little muscle as can get the job done is the avenue to success?

 

[[Focus]]

Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time.

I think he hit the nail on the head there

As much as I love ole Winnie (his "Never Surrender" speech is one of my favorites of all time, top 3 even), he is wrong about the last part. What he means is that it has been more successful than the implementations of other forms of governments thus far.

And he's wrong about that, too. It's only in modern times that other systems break down, and that's due primarily to the moral decay arising from 'The Death of God', as Nietzsche would call it.