1000 monkeys at 1000 computers typing randomly for infinite time...

[Tanizaki]

i cant believe no one has brought up the INFINITE MONEKY THEOREM. yes thats right, there is a mathematical theorem.

I can't believe it took this long for someone to quote Wikipedia as if it meant anything. I have a theorem called the WikiTheorem. It states that the longer an online discussion continues, the probability that a non-expert will quote Wikipedia in a belief that it proves something approaches 1.

I did mention this theorem earlier in this thread, but I did not name it as such. However, you will note it as the post where I mention that this thought experiment first arose in the context of thermodynamics. If you had heard of the concept before your Google search, you would have realized that it had been mentioned already.

firstly the statement argued is wrong:

The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type or create a particular chosen text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare.

Infinite monkey theorem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SEE PROBABILITIES.

I am not sure what point you are attempting to establish. If you are wishing to say that it is inevitable that the event will occur, you are incorrect and are displaying a fundamental misunderstanding of large number theory.

 

[matt182]

It was quite clear, I thought. Try reading it again.


You said that you deal with biology, physics, chemistry, and other sciences in the course of increasing your fitness. While I agree that your body is subject to the laws of these sciences because it exists in the universe, I disagree that working out conveys any significant knowledge to you. Most people here would be hard pressed to describe the difference between power and work. (no, that is not an invitation for someone to google up some definitions). I agree with you there is nothing wrong with that. No one can be an expert on every topic. Otherwise, they would not be experts.?

Its not so much about increasing fitness as you put it, actually hardly anything at all, but provides a broader understanding of nature and the fundemental values that allow you to build up knowledge. Unlike personal trainers and such in my opinion, whos knowledge is only superficial and quite limited in a certain respect.



im not sure what you mean by " I disagree that working out conveys any significant knowledge to you".

 

[Typhon]

I thought I'd heard of you, you must have been banned from more forums than I've had hot dinners!

 

[James1226]

Why 1000 monkeys at 1000 comps? Why not infinite monkeys at infinite comps? The odds are the same for each indinvidual monkey to develop each individual Hamlet.

If the odds are 1 to 9.9999x10^9999999999999999999999999999999999999999, it won't just happen once or twice...it'll happen INFINITE times.

Now apply that to the universe, to either the closed universe theory or the theory of infinite universes...

Now have your mind blown...

I call BS. Like the original poster said before he so quickly gave in, its not possible for the monkeys to accidently type the play in its entirety with no mistakes. Hell i don't even think they could type green eggs and ham without a mistake if they had all of eternity.

For the spacing, quotations, capital letters, or even word and sentence structure ot all be right, all while typing each characters name before each line is ridiculous. There becomes a point where repetition and odds don't matter, and this is it. The day they accidently/randomly type Hamlet, is the day I accidently fart and end up on Mars.

 

[Karky]

i dont understand why people dont get they would eventually type it?

Only problem is, the chanse of the monkies turning off the computer with the keyboard is bigger than them writing hamlet, so that sucks.

Do you belive the monkies would be able to eventually type the word "Hi"? would probobly take a pretty long time, but that seems possible? then why not "hi there" or "Hi friend" or hamlet, its just that it would take a LONG time, but if they could sit for eternity, without the universe collapsing or the monkies dying or any of that stuff, it would happen.

 

[Woodt]

Guys. I've said this before. The backspace to key ratio is so one sided that there is no chance that when a mistake is made the script will go back to a blank page. Hamlet would probably be written eventually. But it would have random letters before it due to the lack of deleting all previous mistakes.

 

[James1226]

i dont understand why people dont get they would eventually type it?

Only problem is, the chanse of the monkies turning off the computer with the keyboard is bigger than them writing hamlet, so that sucks.

Do you belive the monkies would be able to eventually type the word "Hi"? would probobly take a pretty long time, but that seems possible? then why not "hi there" or "Hi friend" or hamlet, its just that it would take a LONG time, but if they could sit for eternity, without the universe collapsing or the monkies dying or any of that stuff, it would happen.

Maybe so, maybe not. So what you're saying is that if Shakespeare hadn't written Hamlet, somebody else, eventually, would have?

 

[Proteinboy]

I thought I'd heard of you, you must have been banned from more forums than I've had hot dinners!

LOL how did you find that?!

 

[Tanizaki]

I thought I'd heard of you, you must have been banned from more forums than I've had hot dinners!

I love it when one of my new fans decides to search the Internet to learn more about classy Tanizaki!

 

[Tanizaki]

i dont understand why people dont get they would eventually type it?

Because, as I have taken great pains to explain, they would not, even if chimps were perfect random number generators.

Only problem is, the chanse of the monkies turning off the computer with the keyboard is bigger than them writing hamlet, so that sucks.

This is called "fighting the hypothetical".

Do you belive the monkies would be able to eventually type the word "Hi"? would probobly take a pretty long time, but that seems possible? then why not "hi there" or "Hi friend" or hamlet, its just that it would take a LONG time, but if they could sit for eternity, without the universe collapsing or the monkies dying or any of that stuff, it would happen.

The odds of a monkey typing "Hi", ignoring capital and lowercase letters, is 1 to 676, so that is perfectly probable to occur. (considering capital and lowercase, it would be 1 to 2,704). Both those figures assume that the keyboard has only keys for letters and no numbers, carriage return, and so on.

However, it does not follow that just because one is probable does not mean that all others are probable or even possible. Just because I can jump one meter, would you then assume that I could jump over the English Channel? I have explained this at length before in this thread, so I don't know why you wish for me to repeat myself.

 

[Tanizaki]

Maybe so, maybe not. So what you're saying is that if Shakespeare hadn't written Hamlet, somebody else, eventually, would have?

That is the logical extension of people who incorrectly hold that the monkeys could eventually type Hamlet. The monkeys could also type all other works, according to the true believers. If that is the case, then literature would seem not to require authors. What good is authorship if all literature can be produced at random? The same could be said for any other number of human endeavors, such as graphic art, music, and so forth.

 

[(Silent)]

The odds of a monkey typing "Hi", ignoring capital and lowercase letters, is 1 to 676, so that is perfectly probable to occur. (considering capital and lowercase,.

One in 26 chance to hit the Letter h and another one in 26 chance to hit the letter i. So simple math to attain the chance of hitting the two number in the correct order 26x26=676...

 

[Karky]

Maybe so, maybe not. So what you're saying is that if Shakespeare hadn't written Hamlet, somebody else, eventually, would have?

no, im not. We must keep in mind, that this example is not realistic. In real life it would never happen, it would take too long, the monkies would die, earth get destroyed, etc.

And besides, humans arent typing randomly.

 

[Karky]

Because, as I have taken great pains to explain, they would not, even if chimps were perfect random number generators.


This is called "fighting the hypothetical".



The odds of a monkey typing "Hi", ignoring capital and lowercase letters, is 1 to 676, so that is perfectly probable to occur. (considering capital and lowercase, it would be 1 to 2,704). Both those figures assume that the keyboard has only keys for letters and no numbers, carriage return, and so on.

However, it does not follow that just because one is probable does not mean that all others are probable or even possible. Just because I can jump one meter, would you then assume that I could jump over the English Channel? I have explained this at length before in this thread, so I don't know why you wish for me to repeat myself.

thats a bad example and you know it. I guess im gonna need an illustration for you to understand, lets go with "Hi there" you can calculate that? how about this "Hi there, who are you? I thought i met you last night" possible, right? see where im getting? Longer and longer sentances, im sorry i cant be bothered with typing inn hamlet here and taking the time to progress from "Hi there" to hamlet.

the problem is ofcource that random typing monkies could turn off the computer, like i said, delete the entire thing, etc. Which would set them back, but turning off the computer would kill the thing, as they cant turn it on from the keyboard.

I know it would never happen, because you cant give monkies infinete time, because of lifespan etc.

 

[Karky]

Guys. I've said this before. The backspace to key ratio is so one sided that there is no chance that when a mistake is made the script will go back to a blank page. Hamlet would probably be written eventually. But it would have random letters before it due to the lack of deleting all previous mistakes.

that i can agree with. Its another problem, hamlet would be written probobly with random letters before and after.

 

[theGOOCH]

Of course it would if the characters were truly random. That is the very nature of infinity.

 

[matt182]

sorry but as others have already enlightened us writing hamlet just wouldnt occur. You seem karky to be only suggesting that a terminal error such as turning off the computer is the only reason why, but this is not the case.

ask a mathematician for their opinion.

Not only that, but the monkeys would "favor" (spelt american for so you dont get confused ) certain letters, would the monkey not prefer the letters centered as it required less work, and if the nokey used all the fingers at the same time this would again deem it impossible..

What is the point of all this anyway, im sure theres more interesting things to talk about yes?

p.s you didnt enlighten us tanizaki with your incredible secret of how to find out how old the world is !

 

[Tanizaki]

One in 26 chance to hit the Letter h and another one in 26 chance to hit the letter i. So simple math to attain the chance of hitting the two number in the correct order 26x26=676...

Thank you for repeating back exactly what I said. It lets me know that you are paying attention.

 

[Tanizaki]

Of course it would if the characters were truly random. That is the very nature of infinity.

No. You are reasoning about infinity incorrectly.

 

[Tanizaki]

p.s you didnt enlighten us tanizaki with your incredible secret of how to find out how old the world is !

It's hardly a secret. The answer is the gravitational binding energy of the earth.