When should I run?

[niceone]

fat 9cals per gram
protein 4cals per gram
carbs 4cals per gram

Here you show your knowledge that different macronutrients provide varying amounts of calories. Effectively, this shows that your mathematical equation is too simplified. AS YOU KNOW, eating an unbalanced diet would not lead to anything close to what your equation projects.

And now you are saying that the rate of someones metabolism is irrelevant? You do realize that overweight people do not ALL OVER EAT.
put down your shovel buzz.. you don't know what you are talking about and im tired of arguing with a wall. if someone is very small and they eat 2000 calories for maintainence, do you think that dropping 25% of the calories they normally consume will yield 1 pound lost over that week?

I'm done with this.

 

[buzz]

(quote)
if someone is very small and they eat 2000 calories for maintainence, do you think that dropping 25% of the calories they normally consume will yield 1 pound lost over that week?



of course it will .if they already have low fat% then it would be muscle.
what do you think niceone if they eat at a deficit and train they are going to maintane or gain muscle or fat i dont think so


(quote)
And now you are saying that the rate of someones metabolism is irrelevant? You do realize that overweight people do not ALL OVER EAT

you work out your daily calorific levels based on your own metabolism so yes they ARE OVEREATING

its a pity there is not a head banging on the wall smilie.
you really need to put your reading glasses on im bored now enough said.

 

[niceone]

*golf clap*

 

[buzz]

PS by lyle macdonald
Weight Loss Myths
There are dozens of weight-loss myths that help to derail people. Here is a list of some of the most common so you can try to avoid them:
The myth that some kinds of calories are different from others - A calorie is a calorie. If you consume 4,000 calories by eating 1,000 grams of white sugar or 4,000 calories by eating 444 grams of fat, it is still 4,000 calories.

The myth that low-fat foods are okay or that you can eat as much as you want if it is low-fat - A product can have 0 grams of fat but still have lots of calories. Many fat-free foods replace the fat with sugar and contain just as many or more calories as a fat-containing product.

The myth that any passive device, acupressure rings and bracelets or soaps or whatever, can help - There is no way to burn calories but to burn them.

The myth that you can lose 54 pounds in 6 weeks - Despite what the ads say (I LOST 54 POUNDS IN 6 WEEKS WITHOUT DIETS OR EXERCISE!!! or LOSE 10 POUNDS THIS WEEKEND!), you cannot lose a pound of fat unless you burn off 3,500 calories. To lose 54 pounds in 6 weeks, you would need to lose 9 pounds in 7 days, or 1.3 pounds per day. That 1.3 pounds of fat is equal to 4,500 calories, so you would have to burn off 4,500 calories per day. The only way to do that would be to eat nothing AND run a marathon every day for 42 days. That's impossible. The only way to lose that much weight that quickly is either through dehydration or amputation. The ads are lying.

The myth that anything can create an "enzyme-driven fat-burning cycle" - All sorts of things, from nettle seeds to apple pectin, are supposed to contain enzymes that create an ENZYME-DRIVEN FAT BURNING CYCLE THAT BURNS CALORIES 24-HOURS-A-DAY!!! No.
What is true is that you have to eat fewer calories than you burn in a day if you want to lose weight. You can do that by eating fewer calories than you need, or by exercising more, or both. It is true that some people burn more calories per day than others (just as some people are taller than others, some people have to use the restroom more frequently than others, some people lose their hair faster than others and so on -- people are different). You simply have to find the number of calories your body burns in a day and consume fewer calories than your body needs. That's not to say it's easy -- the psychology of food and eating is very powerful. But that is what you have to do. It is a mental game, and there is no way around it. But now you know the rules of that mental game.
For more information on dieting and related topics, check out the links on the next page.

 

[niceone]

you seem to miss one staple FACT in all of this buzz. Burning fat and burning calories are not the same thing. The whole reason this 'debate' started was because you posted a faulty equation that does not apply to everyone. It is extremely general and does not take into account any variables at all. It makes no mention of what ratios the person is consuming their diet in.. And yes it does matter because, believe it or not, your body does utilize nutrients differently.

If i eat 3500 cals but i eat ALL my carbs late at night, it wont matter f*ck all that i am 500 cals less than my maintenance. Do you know what your body does with carbohydrates that it doesnt use? Thats right! It stores them. Your argument went from losing FAT to losing WEIGHT. Which one is it? Because I know you know there is a difference between the two.

By all means continue to copy and paste various articles.. I catch the drift, but you are missing some key factors that make it evident you do not actually understand the nature of nutrition.

 

[buzz]

you seem to miss one staple FACT in all of this buzz. Burning fat and burning calories are not the same thing. The whole reason this 'debate' started was because you posted a faulty equation that does not apply to everyone. It is extremely general and does not take into account any variables at all. It makes no mention of what ratios the person is consuming their diet in.. And yes it does matter because, believe it or not, your body does utilize nutrients differently.

If i eat 3500 cals but i eat ALL my carbs late at night, it wont matter f*ck all that i am 500 cals less than my maintenance. Do you know what your body does with carbohydrates that it doesnt use? Thats right! It stores them. Your argument went from losing FAT to losing WEIGHT. Which one is it? Because I know you know there is a difference between the two.

By all means continue to copy and paste various articles.. I catch the drift, but you are missing some key factors that make it evident you do not actually understand the nature of nutrition.

obviosly you know more than lyle macdonald a top nutritionist
or you are reading but do not have the brains to understand.
yes if you eat your carbs at night( 4cals per gm) they will be stored UNTILLTHE NEXT DAY WHEN THEY ARE BURNED OF 24hrs is what counts not when you eat moron.
from the last article READ SLOWLY

The myth that some kinds of calories are different from others - A calorie is a calorie. If you consume 4,000 calories by eating 1,000 grams of white sugar or 4,000 calories by eating 444 grams of fat, it is still 4,000 calories

AND
you cannot lose a pound of fat unless you burn off 3,500 calories.

if you dont understand that try getting someone else to explain it

 

[theleip]

I would like to throw in this argument pot your theory on this then buzz...

How do you by your calorie in and out method explain starvation mode and its cause of weight gain? If not eating a surplus of calories, then by your method weight gain is impossible, however its been more than proven that eating to far below maintance can cause weight loss stalls or even weight gains.

 

[buzz]

I would like to throw in this argument pot your theory on this then buzz...

How do you by your calorie in and out method explain starvation mode and its cause of weight gain? If not eating a surplus of calories, then by your method weight gain is impossible, however its been more than proven that eating to far below maintance can cause weight loss stalls or even weight gains.

have you got studies or articles to back this statement up.
and its not my theory its lyle macdonalds i just agree with it

 

[junkfoodbad]

have you got studies or articles to back this statement up.
and its not my theory its lyle macdonalds i just agree with it

You aren't getting the point buzz. you are linking articles that arent supporting your point. Yes a calorie is a calorie. but WHERE that calorie comes from when it is burned could be different.

You agree that your body can burn muscle for fuel right? It can also burn fat for fuel right? it can also burn your food as fuel correct? There are 3 simple possibilities. All of which yeild completely different results. There are too many variables to simplify it the way you are.

If what you are saying is true then you are also telling every person out there, who focuses on timing carbs, is wasting their time. If what you say is true, i can eat a whole crap load of carbs before i go to bed. 200 calories of pasta and 200 calories of cottage cheese are going to be used completely different by the body.

 

[buzz]

You aren't getting the point buzz. you are linking articles that arent supporting your point. Yes a calorie is a calorie. but WHERE that calorie comes from when it is burned could be different.

You agree that your body can burn muscle for fuel right? It can also burn fat for fuel right? it can also burn your food as fuel correct? There are 3 simple possibilities. All of which yeild completely different results. There are too many variables to simplify it the way you are.

If what you are saying is true then you are also telling every person out there, who focuses on timing carbs, is wasting their time. If what you say is true, i can eat a whole crap load of carbs before i go to bed. 200 calories of pasta and 200 calories of cottage cheese are going to be used completely different by the body.

junkfood on page 4 you posted a statement saying that fasted cardio burns more fat.2 links before that i posted actuall studies (let the studies speak) saying this wasnt fact so obviosly your not reading whats put in front of you.carb timing is a waste of time you will just burn of whatever you have stored another time,hence i say what you eat and use over 24hrs is what counts not when you eat it .thats it

 

[junkfoodbad]

junkfood on page 4 you posted a statement saying that fasted cardio burns more fat.2 links before that i posted actuall studies (let the studies speak) saying this wasnt fact so obviosly your not reading whats put in front of you.carb timing is a waste of time you will just burn of whatever you have stored another time,hence i say what you eat and use over 24hrs is what counts not when you eat it .thats it

ok, and im saying you are telling every single other person, including the trained PT's that they are wrong.

 

[buzz]

ok, and im saying you are telling every single other person, including the trained PT's that they are wrong.

puleeease PTs how many do you know that actually know anything besides putting people on the newest peice of equipment,like a swiss ball
most PTs are clueles.are you saying theyknow more than one of the best nutritionest lyle macdonald.fine

 

[junkfoodbad]

puleeease PTs how many do you know that actually know anything besides putting people on the newest peice of equipment,like a swiss ball
most PTs are clueles.are you saying theyknow more than one of the best nutritionest lyle macdonald.fine

There are plenty of certified PT's that frequent this site that completely disagree with this. I am by no means an expert. Yes Lyle McDonald IS an expert. But your quotes of him says NOTHING that supports your claim that burning fat and burning calories is the same thing.

Lets say i workout for 3 hours straight in one day. Chances are, after 1hr i will start burning muscle for fuel correct? Now assuming i ate the SAME amount of calories the next day, but the difference is, i workout in 3, 1 hour sessions. throughout the day. Once in the morning, once in the middle of the day, and once at night and replenish my glycogen stores inbetween each. I burn the same amount of calories, but each time is not long enough to start burning muscle for fuel. I will burn more muscle than fat in the first case. REGARDLESS of how many calories I took in.

 

[niceone]

obviosly you know more than lyle macdonald a top nutritionist
or you are reading but do not have the brains to understand.
yes if you eat your carbs at night( 4cals per gm) they will be stored UNTILLTHE NEXT DAY WHEN THEY ARE BURNED OF 24hrs is what counts not when you eat moron.
from the last article READ SLOWLY

The myth that some kinds of calories are different from others - A calorie is a calorie. If you consume 4,000 calories by eating 1,000 grams of white sugar or 4,000 calories by eating 444 grams of fat, it is still 4,000 calories

AND
you cannot lose a pound of fat unless you burn off 3,500 calories.

if you dont understand that try getting someone else to explain it

No matter how slowly I read your off topic articles which do not support your argument, it still shows nothing.
And now I am a moron?

Your equation might as well be X+Y-C=-1

seriously, its people like you who make places like this dangerous for newbs. Experts like you whos facts are so jumbled because they lack basic knowledge. People like you who don't actually know anything, they just quote. If you cannot formulate a viable rebuttle at least refrain from calling me names alright, moron?
Then you throw a name around like Lyle.. DO yourself a huge favour...Seriously STFU about Lyle. Nowhere does ANYTHING you posted from Lyle support your claim that burning calories and burning fat will yield the same results. which is only one factor that would have to be present in order for your equation to be true.

Its really unfortunate that you probably googled the wrong articles in the wrong order and now you dont think that carb timing matters. You realize that the guys who say this are all on hypercaloric diets and it doesnt matter as much then, but when you are on a caloric deficit diet it does matter when you consume carbs.

And think about this and dont say 'oh... well its over 24 hours which is all that matters....' the only clock that matters is the one that tracks how long your body takes to break down the aminos, to convert the carbs to store the fat etc....Actually read this and for one second forget about your articles:

you do cardio and burn some fat off, but your diet is sh*t and you are losing muscle like crazy. On top of all this you load up on carbs before bed. These carbs top up your glycogen and then your liver converts the remainder to FAT. you wake up the next day and run and you burn some fat. Congratulations you are now burning fat and gaining fat all on a 24 cycle.
Now.... this situation could easily occur while consuming 500 calories below your maintenance.

Without reverting to any gd articles.. please discuss the above, boxed statement in your own words, not Lyles..

 

[workoutclown]

You know what? I believe they know their ****. Craig has is a world-renowned Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (CSCS), and author of too-many-articles-to-count in magazines such as Men's Health, Men's Fitness, Oxygen, Maximum Fitness, and Muscle and Fitness Hers.

i thought u werent supposed to take whats in magazines seriously and theyre all full of not-so-good information?...at least thats what ive been told on this forum...

 

[theleip]

have you got studies or articles to back this statement up.
and its not my theory its lyle macdonalds i just agree with it

I have my own personal experiance which in my mind is better than any article (though I will find ones to site to you).

I keep strict tally of my calories and data since I have ventured this journey of weight loss and fitness. We will however for use of argument only use 2 months of data where it was clean eating of proper ratios of protein/fat/carbs. I came to find out later that i was eating under my calorie needs for the energy i was expending. My average day was 1300. My metabolic resting rate is at least 1400. Throw in activity and easily at 1800 to 2000 calories a day burned. Now at the time i wasn't aware of the facts or information of how to eat for my metabolism. I dropped a few pounds, then stopped, then gained back 5 pounds, all while still averaging 1300 calories a day. However according to my calculations using the 3500 calories out method, I should have been at my goal weight.

So how do we explain how I gained fat, while being in a calorie deficit? In short I slowed my metabolism causing my body to save calories, burn my muscle and basically shut down any movement in fat storage except of course for new fat to be added.

When you starve the body it lowers your metabolic function. It is that function that guides the course of how many calories you burn, at what rate and what speed. So slowing that course is in turn going to slow the rate at which you burn fat. One of the easist ways to do so is by restricting calories/nutrients to the body.

The body is far to complex and intellengent to simply work in a black and white function such as calorie in/calorie out. If it were that simple the the amount of people over weight in this country would be far less. I am short on time right now, however since its articles you seem to trust I will post some as soon as I get a chance. If you would like to take the time however yourself, quite alot of great scientific studies can be found on gaining fat in a calorie deficits in studies in anorexia nervosa.

I don't think you mean any harm, but again the body and mind just ins't that black and white.

 

[buzz]

firstly NICEONE i appologise for calling you a moron,but i didnt apreciate the "pick your shovel up "statement
secondly THE LEIP the this worked for me argument doesnt cut any ice mate sorry.
(quote)
you do cardio and burn some fat off, but your diet is sh*t and you are losing muscle like crazy. On top of all this you load up on carbs before bed. These carbs top up your glycogen and then your liver converts the remainder to FAT. you wake up the next day and run and you burn some fat. Congratulations you are now burning fat and gaining fat all on a 24 cycle.
Now.... this situation could easily occur while consuming 500 calories below your maintenance.
IMO if your on a 500cal defecit and training, your body will not hold onto fat in the first place it will use whatever carbs you put in as energy.
(quote)
its people like you who make places like this dangerous for newbs. Experts like you whos facts are so jumbled because they lack basic knowledge. People like you who don't actually know anything, they just quote.

I am 48 started amatuer boxing when i was 10
powerlifting when i was 14
junior lifts
deadlift 340lbs
squat 310lbs
bench 290lbs
also did distance running
half marathon 1hr 7mins
5mile race for sale harriers in 24mins
done muay thai,karate,kung-fu.
also good standard amatuer footballer(soccer)
in all that time i have kept up my weight training with some slack times
all in all i have been in the gym for over 30yrs
i also have certificates for fitness so i think i have a bit more than basic knowledge.
if you want to carry on being so obbsesed by meal timings then that is your option.
i will carry on having man sized meals and enjoying them while still getting IMO the same results as you are.
if i offended anyone it was not what i intended .
but i think we are going to have to agree to dissagree

 

[niceone]

While your past experience is quite impressive, that does not mean a whole lot when it comes to nutritional knowledge.

However, this whole thing started out because you said something, and someone else said it was over simplified. You argued that it was an equation that was solid and viable. I had to disagree because that just isn't the case. There is no way you can actually say the equation works. There are far too many variables when it comes to the body and the way it utilizes food.
You have no real backing behind your argument. You dug up some interesting articles that didn't support the argument, but there was no real backing up of your claim that burning calories and fat is essentially the same thing.

REGARDLESS.. sorry if i offended.

 

[niceone]

lol, i was going to let this one die but just had to add:
"Instead of using the cookie cutter approach of subtracting 500 kcals per day that most tend to advocate, people should just try to subtract 10-20% from their maintenance caloric intake. This way, larger individuals take a bigger "hit" than smaller individuals as far as cutting calories is concerned. For instance, take a 200 pound male and compare that to a 110 pound female.."

that is quoted from Tony Gentilcore which I read in an article that was posted here today by someone

 

[dgessler]

Just in case you guys needed another article supporting early AM cardio: