what you think

just because the barbell two arm curl flexes both elbow joints at the same time does not make it a compound movement. thats like saying leg extensions are compound. With the hammer curl, the only difference is the way you hold the weight. If you have looked at people who move their shoulder with the two armed barbell curl, its because they cant curl.

There is really no one sentence that makes a definition of a compound or isolation movement. Both the "single joing movement" and "single muscle" movement are false, just you have to use common sence. However, i like the single joint definition the most. Since we all know alot of curls do alot for the forearms aswell. But then again, if its single joint, then stiff legged deadlifts are isolation, which they are not. Going by one of these definitions is not good IMO, because it causes you to put effective movements into the isolation group, where they shouldnt be. And it can cause you to put isolation exercises into the good compound group, where they shouldnt be.

Can you say, isolation is something you use to TARGET a specific muscle group? Since even though the biceps curl uses alot of muscles, its usually used to target the biceps. You cant really say that with a compound movement. Since with the compound movements more than one muscle is a primary mover..
 
The standing barbell curl is considered a compound. Thus why is it difficult to understand the preacher curl being the same? Its just sitting on a bench, and arms on pad, doing the same thing..........except........sitting........I think its basic. Now the effects on the muscle, I am not speaking about, this is of course different.
 
The discussion here is getting down to semantics, and minutia. The point of the whole conversation is that compound generally requires two joint movements on the SAME CHAIN. Two elbows moving or two knees moving is not compound.
 
Proteinboy said:
if you are doing preacher curls with a barbell, you use both arms(2 arms), so you are using 2 joints(1 per arm). its the joint used in elbow flexion.
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You ARE joking right ?

It is 1 joint on your right arm and 1 joint on your left arm - the exact same joint in both cases ...your elbow joint.

Compound is where different joints ( more than 1 joint ) are involved in the execution of an exercise...whether you do the exercise one at a time or at the same time.

To say that a barbell preacher is a compound where a single arm dumbbell preacher is an isolation..... is just plain stupid logic IMO.
 
Adler1983 said:
The discussion here is getting down to semantics, and minutia. The point of the whole conversation is that compound generally requires two joint movements on the SAME CHAIN.

Two elbows moving or two knees moving is not compound.
Click to expand...


Finally....thank you !
 
Wrangell said:
You ARE joking right ?

It is 1 joint on your right arm and 1 joint on your left arm - the exact same joint in both cases ...your elbow joint.

Compound is where different joints ( more than 1 joint ) are involved in the execution of an exercise...whether you do the exercise one at a time or at the same time.

To say that a barbell preacher is a compound where a single arm dumbbell preacher is an isolation..... is just plain stupid logic IMO.
Click to expand...

i wasnt making any kind of statement about what kind of exercise the preacher curl was.
you asked which 2 joints are used in a preacher curl and i answered.

i still stick to my classification of iso and compound:

compound works many muscle groups and allows for greater motor unit recruitment(more muscles activated=more allowance of motor unit recruitment)

isolation works few muscle groups and uses less motor unit recruitment

why consider the number of joints as long as you have an exercise that activates many muscles!?
 
Wrangell said:
Finally....thank you !
Click to expand...

If its a multi-joint operation, its a compound, folks. THIS is the bottom line. Lets, not lose the integrity of the thread, shall we?


Gots to go, lol. Go other important work to do..........like make people FEEL GOOD!.............ROCK ON!
 
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Chillen said:
If its a multi-joint operation, its a compound, folks. THIS is the bottom line.
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compound means "having or involving two or more parts".
movement means "the result of moving".

if you are involving two or more parts(joints) to produce a result of moving, it IS a compound movement!
so you are probably right, chillen!

as long as you dont say that a single joint exercise is isolation, because this is not true! :)
 
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no, its not a compound, im sure you can ask any respectable strenght coach on the planet this question and he will answer that it is isolation. I think im gonna start a poll over at jpfitness and copy the results here.
 
kark, did you just deny the english language's defenition of a compound movement?
obviously, the "weekend warrior's" defenition of a compound movement is different.
the variable is what the word "compound" refers to.
but a poll at another website is going to get you what you want to hear.

if someone asked me what a bicep curl is, i would say its isolation for simplicity's sake.

this is getting very annoying though. who cares if it is isolation or comound.
we should classify exercises by how many muscles they use anyway. its the whole point of working out...to recruit many motor units in many muscles.
who cares about joints!?!?!?
"many muscle recruiting exercises" or "few muscle recruiting exercises".
 
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The debate has blurred the purpose of this thread. For my part, I apologize.

It seems it is possible, I may have one---in search for every chance available. For this I apologize to the OP. My intent was to assist the OP, not over-complicate the situation unnecessarily. I dont know the OP's experience in training, but he needs SIMPLICITY not over complication, and sometimes useless debates that can tend to wound thread integrity. We can play on words all day, this isnt rocket science.

Im sorry.
 
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im saying the definition is not as good as it should be.

I mentioned the other forum because there are alot of respected experts there. I just thought it might be a good idea to hear what people who actually train folks for a living think about this.

we use compound and isolation to seperate between movements that cost alot of energy and have alot of bang for buck, and movements that are more finisher type that couldnt make up the backbone of a workout and cost less energy. Thats why we say "focus your workout around compound movements". Now, because of this, some newbie is going to focus his workouts around two handed barbell curls.

With this definition, these will be compound:
Skullcrushers
hamstring curls
leg extensions
BB wrist curls
chest flyes
front raises
lateral raises
calf raises
(unless you do any of them one handed ofcource..)
the list goes on.

It makes no sence that if you do a BB curl with both hands its compound, but if you do it with one hand, its isolation, when doing it with one hand (if training both, ofcource, like you do when you do one handed exercises) actually uses more muscles.

All that is missing to make this thread complete is for someone to come and say that the whole isolation thing is bollocks anyways, since isolation means to completley separate something from everything else, which you CANT do with muscle. See, the definition is already flawed. But we cant be bothered to rename "isolation exercises" just because all muscles are interconnected with the facia, can we? So this whole "definition" is just useless, there is no definition for it.
 
i know. its very annoying. i see your point.

and this "noob" wont go out and focus his movements around those exercises. i already gave him a sample workout with the most effective movements. so its ok to talk about it.

this was just one big discussion(call it a debate if you want). it stirred up thought which is good imo.

no damage done. :) it was fun
 
In your case PB a question:

When exercising your mind muscle does it----well, "Pump UP?! If it does, at least we know blood is getting to it. And, remember, we must allow of mental recovery......................:)

Oh, well, we must have fun too.........Rock on brotha's
 
thats only becouse I'm still researching ok protienboy you told me don't do the same workout trice in a row so I'm trying to get at least 2 more FBW to do that way I can mix it up a bit plus I don't know if I can workout considering several days ago I stept on a nail and it went half way though my left foot! plus I'm still studying compounds and iso and all sorts of other stuff to be sure I'm doing stuff right ok geez don't need to get mad at me just trying to get smart at this stuff as well so I know what you guys are saying I don't know what A1,B1 or C2 stands for I don't even Know what
#x# stands for when you guys put it right next to an exercise just worried I'll do something wrong danm!
 
Chillen said:
In your case PB a question:

When exercising your mind muscle does it----well, "Pump UP?! If it does, at least we know blood is getting to it. And, remember, we must allow of mental recovery......................:)
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pump up? ohhh so thats why everyone says i have a big head. LOL jk

allow of mental recovery? ahhhh yes your right. i need a pwo mental meal after that thinking. mayb il read the chillog!:yelrotflmao:
 
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