Pssst! Fatty Doll!!!

You also say for people who are solely interested in results. Do you think people are really on this board for different reasons than results?
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My question / concern about being results-oriented is this: What happens after the result is achieved?

IMO, that's the problem with every diet plan out there. You can advocate self-denial and restriction and people will follow that and get results. So say I lose my final 30 lbs using your plan ... then what? Have you taught me the way to maintain that loss? Have you taught me healthy eating habits for a lifetime?

Or have you given me a result that I can't sustain because all you've taught me is deprivation and not taught me sustainability?

That's my biggest problem with results-oriented weight loss. It's not sustainable for lifetime maintenance.
 
Steve,
May I ask you this? How long have you been working out? A personal trainer? In the industry? Could you please answer those questions and show me a before photo and say a photo from today?

I ask this in all niceness!
 
KaraCooks said:
My question / concern about being results-oriented is this: What happens after the result is achieved?

IMO, that's the problem with every diet plan out there. You can advocate self-denial and restriction and people will follow that and get results. So say I lose my final 30 lbs using your plan ... then what? Have you taught me the way to maintain that loss? Have you taught me healthy eating habits for a lifetime?

Or have you given me a result that I can't sustain because all you've taught me is deprivation and not taught me sustainability?

That's my biggest problem with results-oriented weight loss. It's not sustainable for lifetime maintenance.
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This isn't meant to be a crash diet for dieters.. this is meant to be a way of lowering your body fat % to compete in body building or something like that. This whole thread was starting over body building--and me saying my very long term goal was to compete in Ms. Fitness. :)
 
Kara,
You make a good point. The way I currently eat can easily be done for the rest of my life. I will never have oils in my house again unless I having a dinner party of course or something like (I love to cook like you) I actually keep some to coat y skillits and my grill but I do not cook with them. I will no longer purposely buy avocados everytime I go to the store. Yeah I might get one every now and then or when I go out I will have some guacamole but that will not be my norm.

In what you asked, looked at what I wrote on this post. I mean I talk about eating lean meat, veggies, and carbs with limited (not ZERO) fruits. My dairy for now is limited to fat free but even afterward I am not going to go out and buy two gallons of whole milk. However, if I am feeling the urge I will have a bowl of cereal with skim milk. I honestly don't see where anything I have mentioned can't be sustained throughout a lifetime. The only thing I say is on a daily basis eat clean. Don't allow crao into you diet but if you want to go out once night then do it!

Someone said it best when they mention the flat tire syndrome and I always use that. I am just as bad as anyone else. I live in a huge city with awesome places to go eat and drink and I go there sometimes. However I don't obsess over it. I don't feel bad. I go home and I get back on track.

When you get a flat tire on your car, do you pull over on the side of the road and say "screw it! I got one flat tire so I am going to slash the rest of my tires!" No you get out, and you change that flat and you go on. That is how living ( I say living because isn't that our goal?)

Yes there are sometimes that I laugh with my partner because say "man I had two blowouts this week: meaning I have been really bad but I still have two good tires so I go down the road! The way of me eatng clean and balanced almost all of the time allows me to have those bad time and either continue to see results or maintain my results.

So what I have mentioned about this way of eating. I honestly don't see where the problem with keeping this as a lifestyle is an issue. In my experience though counting calories for the rest of my life is not acceptable. One I forget some stuff and I don't want to carry around a notepad with me everywhere, etc. I will always weight my food though. I have become good enough to tell my eyeing it.

So Kara, in the same respect (and I do mean respect =) ) can you see yourself maintaining your weight whichever you are happy with by counting calories for the rest of your life? I mean you are big on that so when you find a weight you are happy with, to stay there are you always going to count to make sure that you are within your range?
 
So Kara, in the same respect (and I do mean respect =) ) can you see yourself maintaining your weight whichever you are happy with by counting calories for the rest of your life? I mean you are big on that so when you find a weight you are happy with, to stay there are you always going to count to make sure that you are within your range?
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Yeah, I totally can. I did it for a year while I maintained in the 170s and I can see doing it for the rest of my life.

One of my ... I guess you'd call it lightbulb moments ... was the realization that I didn't have to deprive myself of ANY food in order to be successful.

Today there was an ice cream social at my office. I had 2 servings of icecream - one in a cone and one just an extra scoop in a bowl. And you know what ... I came home tonight knowing that I can't have a baked potato with dinner or my normal pre-dinner cocktail because of it. And I'm ok with that.

For me removing healthy fats from my diet would be deprivation - which isn't sustainable for me. Maybe for you it's different. For me, giving up avocado is not an option. I'd be resentful and angry about it and eventually I'd give in.

So really it's all about personal choice, isn't it? I choose to accept slower results in return for a lifestyle that I know I can maintain long term without feeling deprived.

I do HONESTLY believe that the majority of people on this board are looking for the same thing. It's like the quote from the podcast that Steve posted earlier: The idea is to succeed with the least amount of pain and least amount of deprivation - that's the best recipe for long term success.

Then again, I'm not looking to win any bodybuilding awards. I just want to look good in my clothes (and maybe when naked with my guy). :)
 
Guess Who said:
You know, I have really tried to redeem myself from what I made myself look like on posts before this and you asked me question and I answered. You know, as contrary as to what you might think, I am not an idiot. On the other hand, I have known people who can study out of a series of study materials and have no educational background on the issue and become a personal trainer. I believe training expertise and nutrition expertise are seperate unless you are more than qualified in both.
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I've been on the net far too long and have seen this card played to death. Appeals to emotion to cover a lack of explanation/proof happens by all supposed gurus.

I don't think you're an idiot at all. As I said above, if you'd actually read the words I type, I don't know you. I'd never judge you without learning more about you. All I can base my posts on are the things you say and I'm saying, regardless of who's doing the preaching... if they're basing everything on results and nothing more... I'm not interested in listening.

I wasn't attacking you in the least, so I'm not sure at all where this explanation is coming from.

So by saying that you don't give me any credability based on results, then let's say that I have a master's degree in nutrition and I have done some substantial studies and posted them out on the web with say SOME OTHER folks who have seen results from my work, but yet I weight about 450 pounds then you would be more inclined to listen to a little more of what I say? And maybe actually sincere when you ask a question?
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If you want to redeem yourself, how about some logic. Stop spewing strawmans all over the place.

And to answer your question...

Sure.

Last I checked adipose tissue didn't impact intelligence or brain function.

Hint: This isn't an debate of what results actually mean. This is a matter of burden of proof. If you act as an authority on this medium of exchange and share facts, expect to show proof of said facts.

Or expect to not have your word respected by anyone who cares about integrity of information.

Hint 2: Results don't mean everything you've done nutritionally and training-wise worked. It means some of the things you've done worked. Some of the things you've done or believed were futile.

Hint 3: Many people succeed in spite of what they do or think they know.

This is why focusing solely on results without sound information/science is silly. Stop putting this in either/or terms. Ideally you have the results and the knowledge.

You also say for people who are solely interested in results. Do you think people are really on this board for different reasons than results? I think that might be why people are shelling out money for what in my opinion is crap! Anyone on this board who wants to continue to be 300lbs but they just want to get healthy and they do not have fat loss as a main goal, please show yourself.
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Wow, point = missed.

Now I see why you've frustrated so many of the respected members around here. You like to read what you think you hear instead of reading what was actually typed.

Not everyone here is putting him or herself out there in a position of authority.

You are.

That's a big difference.

That's the reason why I spoke up.

Read that again and now ask yourself why I might be interested in your proof beyond your results.

Also, I think I know why people are here. I've been a member for more than a week and spend a large amount of time each and every day LISTENING and helping members.

It's pretty much proven in science that there is a gluclose threshold when you think of the "shuttle" (I hope you know what the shuttle is) any excess gluclose (please don't mention the difference between gluclose and fructose.
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Seriously, I'm having trouble simply deciphering what you're saying due to your sentence structuring.

Inthe scheme of things they are the same unless you are say maybe a scientist then you may want to check out this website )
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Huh?

If I'm a scientist I might want to check that out. Why?

will be shuttled away from the muscles (this is a part of the whole protein synthisis) and into adipose tissue i.e BODYFAT and that is my backing of why I limit my sugar intake.
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So you believe that too much sugar in one sitting will make you fat regardless of energetic state of the individual?

You realize thermodynamics is the final arbiter with regards to whether fat will be gained or lost, right?

Also, don't say "it's pretty much proven in science" without posting said science. Preferably from peer-reviewed and respected journals.

Start here:
 
Guess Who said:
Steve,
May I ask you this? How long have you been working out? A personal trainer? In the industry? Could you please answer those questions and show me a before photo and say a photo from today?

I ask this in all niceness!
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Sure, you can ask.
 
Steve,
I do apologize if you meant well on your posts. Maybe I took you the same way people took me when I was trying to me arbitrary =(
 
KaraCooks said:
Yeah, I totally can. I did it for a year while I maintained in the 170s and I can see doing it for the rest of my life.

One of my ... I guess you'd call it lightbulb moments ... was the realization that I didn't have to deprive myself of ANY food in order to be successful.

Today there was an ice cream social at my office. I had 2 servings of icecream - one in a cone and one just an extra scoop in a bowl. And you know what ... I came home tonight knowing that I can't have a baked potato with dinner or my normal pre-dinner cocktail because of it. And I'm ok with that.

For me removing healthy fats from my diet would be deprivation - which isn't sustainable for me. Maybe for you it's different. For me, giving up avocado is not an option. I'd be resentful and angry about it and eventually I'd give in.

So really it's all about personal choice, isn't it? I choose to accept slower results in return for a lifestyle that I know I can maintain long term without feeling deprived.

I do HONESTLY believe that the majority of people on this board are looking for the same thing. It's like the quote from the podcast that Steve posted earlier: The idea is to succeed with the least amount of pain and least amount of deprivation - that's the best recipe for long term success.

Then again, I'm not looking to win any bodybuilding awards. I just want to look good in my clothes (and maybe when naked with my guy). :)
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MMM God I love ice cream. You know what? We really did get off to a rough start. It really is all about what you want and are happy with.

Also sorry for the photography comment. I felt like an injured dog in a corner and then I snapped at everyone that tried to touch me. Make sense? Also I like your photography a lot. Did you do all the pictures that are of the food on your blog?
 
Not everyone here is putting him or herself out there in a position of authority.
You are.
That's a big difference.
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I want to echo this. I don't want to make this into another battlefield thread ... but I want to point this out.

I have never claimed to be an authority or a professional and in fact I often will say at the beginning of my posts that what I say is what I have learned through years of research combined with my personal experiences.

I strongly encourage people to research for themselves and to LEARN about how their bodies work. From reputable sources - not from random websites.

When someone comes on to this (or any) board claiming to be an expert, they need to be able to show their expertise. And part of that is realizing that not one way is the only way - or the right way - for everyone.

Steve's qualifications are easy to find if you go to his blog or Google him. In the short time I've been here I've come to really respect his point of view and to realize that he not only knows what he's talking about .. he's one smart guy.

Yes, I'm a part time photographer, part time database guru. That has nothing to do with my commitment (found in the last 3 years) to being healthy, to losing weight, and to sustaining that weight loss. I hope that during my time here I'm able to help people. But even while I"m helping I hope I'm also open to learning and growing and becoming a better person.

I dunno .. maybe I'm rambling here, but I just think there's a lot to be learned by shutting up sometimes and listening. It's a lesson that I struggle with ... but it's a valuable one, nonetheless.
 
Guess Who said:
No seriously! I mean this in a friendly manner. I would like to see where you started and where you ended up with time frame in between.
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I've trained for physique at most a year out of my life. Beyond that, I've never really cared about body composition. I've trained for the vast majority of my life for performance.

That in mind, no, I don't have a picture story to show you.

I can tell you I'm 6' and my body would like to sit around 160 lbs. I'm genetically very skinny. I have thinner wrists and ankles than most any guy you'll find. Through training and eating, I sit someplace between 180-190 most of the time, unless I'm training for a massive hike or something.

I have pics of me as a skinny freshman in college I could scan onto the computer to show you since I really didn't start gaining mass until about midday through college.

Will I actually do this?

Probably not as it has nothing to do with anything.
 
Thanks. :) Yes, I took all the photos on all my blogs. I'm still learning food photography - it's a lot different and a lot tougher than people photography. :)
 
Guess Who said:
Steve,
I do apologize if you meant well on your posts. Maybe I took you the same way people took me when I was trying to me arbitrary =(
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While I respect your apology, it's extremely unnecessary. Actually it's counterproductive. You seem to keep dragging emotion and personal factors into this and that's simply muddying the waters.

Let's stick to the topic at hand.

The research supporting the glucose threshold with context of energy balance.
 
Okay Steve,

The insulin that your body produces acts like a drill sargeant of the sugar in your body. When you ingest sugar, the insulin says "FORWARD to the muscles that are deprived of gluclose. This is the shuttle that all physique oriented people talk about. In actual protein synthisis this is why you want to mix good amounts of protein with sugar because after an awesome workout you know your muscles are just deprived of all kinds of shit and Mr. Insulin is going to send that sugar directly to your muscles so the protein catches a ride and gets first dibs on shotgun of what hits the muscles first.

Now, when your muscles have ingested all they can basically and now on the mend, Mr. Insulin says "MOVE OUT!" there is no more room for you. The body is too effecient to let stuff just sit around. So it sends that extra to a storage room for later energy use. That is called fat!
 
Steve,
I would also like to know what you tell your clients based on the question:

In what order does the body burn certain things in the body?

i.e. what the is the first and foremost of ANYTHING your body burns during exercise, rest, afterburn or whatever. This particular thing will always take presence not matter what you do. Is it fat? Is it sugar? Is it carbs? etc.
 
Guess Who said:
Okay Steve,

The insulin that your body produces acts like a drill sargeant of the sugar in your body. When you ingest sugar, the insulin says "FORWARD to the muscles that are deprived of gluclose. This is the shuttle that all physique oriented people talk about. In actual protein synthisis this is why you want to mix good amounts of protein with sugar because after an awesome workout you know your muscles are just deprived of all kinds of shit and Mr. Insulin is going to send that sugar directly to your muscles so the protein catches a ride and gets first dibs on shotgun of what hits the muscles first.
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Look.

I'm not looking for second grade explanations here.

I promise, you can use big words with me and won't scare me away. In fact, I'm not looking for things in your words.

I'm looking for the research that supports your claims.

Now, when your muscles have ingested all they can basically and now on the mend, Mr. Insulin says "MOVE OUT!" there is no more room for you. The body is too effecient to let stuff just sit around. So it sends that extra to a storage room for later energy use. That is called fat!
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I never said otherwise.

What I said is we're all bound by the laws of thermodynamics. Taking the simplistic viewpoint and looking at insulin and fat storage in isolation or a meal by meal basis without factoring in the thermodynamics of it all is misleading.

And if it's an authority on the subject doing this, it's downright dishonest.

You're right, if I eat big meal in one sitting the excess will be shuttled to fat for storage. Nobody is suggesting otherwise. What I'm trying to figure out is why are you leaving out the bigger picture? The bigger picture is important to the point where what you're focusing on is obsolete in relative terms.

Acute calorie/carb intake matters little in terms of what happens longer term. Suppose I eat over the "glucose threshold" during breakfast. Answer this question?

What will happen to that stored fat at the end of the day, week or whatever if I'm in a net caloric deficit?
 
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Guess Who said:
Steve,
I would also like to know what you tell your clients based on the question:

In what order does the body burn certain things in the body?

i.e. what the is the first and foremost of ANYTHING your body burns during exercise, rest, afterburn or whatever. This particular thing will always take presence not matter what you do. Is it fat? Is it sugar? Is it carbs? etc.
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Why are you asking loaded questions? Why are you not sticking to one issue at a time? You're drastically oversimplifying and overlooking things above which is causing you to jump to false conclusions. Let's resolve that before moving on, ok?

I'll gladly discuss bioenergetics with you once we clear the initial issues.

Hint: Once we get to your question, you might want to start thinking about the options you provide me to select from. Especially once you factor in the fact that in order to produce ATP, all of the fuel sources run continuously during any activity. Sure, their relative importance to energy production differs based on intensity and dose of activity... but that doesn't negate the fact that all fuel systems are continually producing energy.

And this seems to relate to your issues above. You seem to oversimplify the body to a point where you're making it an on/off switch.

It's not.
 
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