I hope thats not the point he is trying to make...again...I thought we already covered this in that old thread...
Sport Protein
- Thread starter Dan_UK
- Start date
Sport Fitness
I hope thats not the point he is trying to make...again...I thought we already covered this in that old thread...
No i never said that, maybe try read what i wrote again. I said protein isnt stored for energy. whether its converted to something else is another question. Settle down ay?.
Ever?
On the issue of " protein isnt stored for energy " ....my recollection from what I have read in the past is that while excess protien can be converted to glucose for use as an energy source, along calories from excess protien contributing to fat stores, it can also be stored as glycogen. However, I'm not certain to extent to which this occurs or even how significant it is in terms of it's contribution to overall glycogen stores.
Last edited:
I concur Wrangell.
Matt, I suggest not speaking in absolutes. As if you are certain I am wasting money on "expensive urine."
Truth be told, we can start slinging research.... but quite frankly, it doesn't matter to me.
I have been doing this a long time. I have played around with my macros. High protein is where it's at for me. And I wouldn't necessarily call it "high protein." My diet is majority carbs when bulking.
You have to take things into perspective. When bulking, which I just stopped, I am taking in roughly 4k cals per day. Do the math. You will find that in ratable terms, my diet does not have a high % of protein. We only have 3 macros to choose from. When you are eating 4k cals, each macro by gram weighting is going to seem high comparatively speaking. So? Who are you comparing me to? What do you want me to do? Drop my P intake and increase my C? Do you think that will save me a lot of money? Plus, I like meat. And I have no pre-existing conditions that should alarm me in terms of this level of P intake.
Actually, I have an idea. You seem so sure of yourself with your absolutes.... are you for hire? I could REALLY use some help. I just can't seem to make any progress.
Let me guess. You are one of those guys that lives and dies by science. (insert: I would still be curious to see if you could actually give me a study that would deduct that my protein intake is too high for my stats). But you are probably one of those guys that IF you did find such a study, you would believe that I am ABSOLUTELY incorrect b/c the research says so. You would (as you already have) disregard real world results.
Here's an idea for you. When the real world doesn't match the science, you certainly DO NOT throw out the real world. You hit the drawing board again in terms of science.
I realize I am coming off as a pompous a$$. I wouldn't have, that I promise, if you didn't seem so certain of yourself. I don't know if you are a professional in the industry or not.... but there are no absolutes when it comes to this. Period. And talking as if there is, is ridiculous.
In addition for everyone else, Matt included, Lyle McDonald is coming out with a new book on Protein within the next few weeks. I highly suggest picking it up if you are interested in this topic. He is very well versed in nutrition (one of the best IMO) and does his homework with regards to the science.
He may come out with some interesting stuff in this book about how most overstate protein needs. Just a thought I had deducted from some things he has said.
didnt see this post. I thought you meant you where taking in protein as a supplement? 200g without a supplement wow thats a lot. i mean thats fine its better to have a bit much than just a little bit off. But i dont think youlll see an improment in terms of hypertrophy witha diet of 150 and 200, simply becuase the body cant utilise that much protein and is excreted by the kidneys..
I think your intention is good but here you are again entertaining absolutes. You may be blinding yourself to the obvious in preference to finding a problem that isn't there.. some of us 'braniacs' can be prone to this and consider it recreational.
I completely agree,
Okay, I am finally getting sick of you, Matty.
If I need 4000 calories to reach the weight gain goals that I have, what do YOU suggest I comprise those calories with, in terms of macronutrient breakdown? And don't go giving me % BS.
We only have 3 macros to choose from, so that is an awful lot of calories to come from carbs and/or fats. If I had said my protein intake was 100 grams and my carb or fat intake was X and/or Y.... would you have even commented? Would you have said my carb/fat is too high? My guess is not. It seems to me like you are hanging on to the coat-tails of a lot mythology, with regards to protein intake.
Would my body be just as well served had I matched a similar caloric intake with less protein and more fat and/or carbs?
Yea, I know that is a stupid question, b/c how in the world can you answer this question when it applies to me? But you are the one speaking of absolutes. Absolutes = answers. So that is what I am looking for, from you.
You act as if I am winging my approach. Or as if I am following some "bro-science" passed down the food chain from the bodybuilding tards who know jack sh*t about nutrition.
This is my life. This is my body. I have had success. Success found through trial and error. How I eat now is a product of that trial and error. You sitting here speaking of your absolutes based on "lectures you've heard" is utterly asinine.
Show me the science to your claims. How much protein does MY body utilize. Or how much protein does someone who lives a similar lifestyle as ME utilize? What are the max amounts? I am very interested in your claims, as I have spent hours researching the topic and based on what I have seen, there are no conclusive studies that say, X amount of protein is the max our bodies can handle.
And I know there are some advanced coaches out there who put you and I to shame in terms of experience and expertise, and they would agree.... that the science isn't conclusive.
I hope you aren't still hanging on to the ideology that there is a set amount of protein, in grams, that our bodies can handle. And on that same note, you do realize that amino acids serve important roles in the body aside from protein synthesis and muscle building activities, right?
Are there any other foods, nutrients, and/or enzymes that may help, when consumed with protein, in digesting more? Why do I ask? B/c I am aware of some of the studies out there that I could see you whipping out and mind you, we are talking about real world applicability here. Isolating one form of protein and its digestibility doesn't do me a whole lot of good considering I rarely eat protein without combining it with other foods.
You seem like you have the answers, so I look forward to hearing from you.
Okay, I am finally getting sick of you, Matty.
sorry
This is my life. This is my body. I have had success. Success found through trial and error.
I hope you aren't still hanging on to the ideology that there is a set amount of protein, in grams, that our bodies can handle. And on that same note, you do realize that amino acids serve important roles in the body aside from protein synthesis and muscle building activities, right?
obviously
Are there any other foods, nutrients, and/or enzymes that may help, when consumed with protein, in digesting more? Its not a matter of getting digested across the intestinal wall, it does. But when it gets into the blood in the form of amino acids theres only so much extra it can do, then it can also be used for energy, not increasing muscle indefentiley like you seem to suggest. It makes sense doesnt it, you can control how much enzymes, haem groups, purines etc you have so there is a limit how much protein can be utilised for these purpoes, but the extra can obviously be used for energy. QUOTE]
heres just a little simple article i found that might shed some light
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrition/a/protein.htm[/URL]
I love that smilie. When used in a debate, it usually means, "I am a moron and still want to save face by acting "cool" and rolling my eyes."
Good job.
No, actually. Your knowledge of this is NOT obvious.
Ahh, and here lies the problem. No, I have not claimed that we have unlimited potential to utilize protein for muscle synthesis. This assumption you make is almost comical.
Reading comprehension. You should try it sometime.
This entire thread I haven't been claiming any "unlimited growth potentials" from intaking more and more protein. I've been arguing the absurdity of your absolute statement that my protein intake is "too high."
Too high for what? I didn't say I take in 200 grams of protein and every ounce of it goes towards muscle synthesis. Again comprehending what I say and reading what I say are two totally different animals. I suggest you practice the first before you keep doing the second.
Why in God's name did you send me an "about.com" article on protein? Please, please tell me that I haven't wasted my time debating with someone who gets their information from about.com!
Recommended reading:
ofc there is no concensus but its a relatively new summary based on the current research.
ofc there is no concensus but its a relatively new summary based on the current research.
Don't botter Strout. He's not even responding to your actual comments. Perhaps it is a reading comprehension thing. Some people are not capable of reading every word in a sentence and every sentence in a paragraph. They simply glance through and reply according to what they wanted to see.
I agree the science is NOT conclusive because everyone is different, there are far too many variables to consider. However, I think it common sense, that its NOT just protien that builds muscle, but a combination of: protein, carbs, good fats, vitamans and minerals....that does.
We have to get water in those muscles, and carbs assists in shuttling water to the muscle----and thereby amino acids (protien broke down). In addition, drinking enought water is important. In addition, FATS (the good stuff, like from Nat. PB, nuts, oily fish, flax seed) play a KEY ROLE, they play a part in transport of NUTRIENTS. It is NOT just protien that builds muscle, and I would disagree with anyone on that......its the combination of nutrients (carb, fat, and protein, vitamans, minerals) that does. While there are no real absolutes when it comes to the proper EQUATION, I think we could agree that consuming or trying to consume the proper ratio (individualized to the person) is the key, rather than just protien. Example, if not enough carbs are eaten, the body breaks down protein and use it as an energy source, if there isnt enough or one or the other at times, than it turns to itself as a source. If protein is all that it took, we all would be walking around like hulks. Even illegal steroids dont work by itself, the stupid persons that decide to do this, eat entire grocery stores when bulking (LOL, exaggerated).
We have to get water in those muscles, and carbs assists in shuttling water to the muscle----and thereby amino acids (protien broke down). In addition, drinking enought water is important. In addition, FATS (the good stuff, like from Nat. PB, nuts, oily fish, flax seed) play a KEY ROLE, they play a part in transport of NUTRIENTS. It is NOT just protien that builds muscle, and I would disagree with anyone on that......its the combination of nutrients (carb, fat, and protein, vitamans, minerals) that does. While there are no real absolutes when it comes to the proper EQUATION, I think we could agree that consuming or trying to consume the proper ratio (individualized to the person) is the key, rather than just protien. Example, if not enough carbs are eaten, the body breaks down protein and use it as an energy source, if there isnt enough or one or the other at times, than it turns to itself as a source. If protein is all that it took, we all would be walking around like hulks. Even illegal steroids dont work by itself, the stupid persons that decide to do this, eat entire grocery stores when bulking (LOL, exaggerated).
This basic information is fine and all. BUT, we were not discussing hypertrophy. RATHER, we were discussing protein requirements.