Weight-Loss Low Fat Diet?
- Thread starter Fae Luminous
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Weight-Loss
Kara,
I looked at the three people you mentioned and they are all fitness experts, not nutrition experts. On top of that a lot of it was sports training and such. They also wanted me to buy their books before they told me very much information.
I also looked at pictures of all three. There were not a whole lot however they did not look the part. If they are such experts why are they not walking around looking like hunks?
I am NOT an advocate of him, but mainly because he wants you to buy his things however, he LOOKS the part and you might like him because he is very caloric oriented and macro balance
This is a sincere post! I promise. Google Tom Venuto and you will see what I mean by selling me on your program if you look like you do it yourself.
I looked at the three people you mentioned and they are all fitness experts, not nutrition experts. On top of that a lot of it was sports training and such. They also wanted me to buy their books before they told me very much information.
I also looked at pictures of all three. There were not a whole lot however they did not look the part. If they are such experts why are they not walking around looking like hunks?
I am NOT an advocate of him, but mainly because he wants you to buy his things however, he LOOKS the part and you might like him because he is very caloric oriented and macro balance
This is a sincere post! I promise. Google Tom Venuto and you will see what I mean by selling me on your program if you look like you do it yourself.
KaraCooks
New member
You seem to put a lot of weight (no pun intended) on how people look.
I also feed Tom V's blog as well. I read about 30 fitness and nutrition blogs every day. They feed right into my newsreader. I just listed those folks as the type of people who I read and respect.
If you follow their blogs they give out a lot of information for free w/out requiring you to buy anything.
I also feed Tom V's blog as well. I read about 30 fitness and nutrition blogs every day. They feed right into my newsreader. I just listed those folks as the type of people who I read and respect.
If you follow their blogs they give out a lot of information for free w/out requiring you to buy anything.
I used that because in her post she is stating that no matter where your calories come from as long as you are getting the 1500 mark you will lose weight. She used 60% of her calories from fat.
Okay I will take the cookies and brownies out of it.
If you ate 1500 calories of olive oil a day - You will not lose a pound guaranteed! Okay if you are severly obese you will but only a limited amount from the pure shock of the calorie drop.
Jeanette401
New member
Um, where exactly will the body be getting its energy from if you're only getting 1500 calories a day, and you're not burning any fat? Not that I'd ever suggest having nothing but 1500 calories of olive oil - but studies suggest that, yes, you would lose weight.
In fact, there was a recent study comparing low fat vs high fat dieting with low calories - The result was that they all lost weight. It wasn't 100% fat in any of the diets, but this is an actual scientific study showing that you can lose weight on a high fat, low calorie diet.
Also, do you still think that the leafy green salad with avocado is an unhealthy meal? (My doctor and nutritionist who think it's healthy are both slender, by the way)
KaraCooks
New member
That's somewhat true to a degree, but only because you're depriving your body of other nutrients and your metabolism will slow in reaction. Not because of the fat quantity. Even so, if someone weighs 200 lbs and drops their intake to 1500 calories of anything, they'll lose weight. Not healthily, but they'll lose weight.
Which is still irrelevant to the original debate over individual food values vs. a more holistic approach.
You can take anything to an extreme - which is also a logical fallacy.
I am still confused by this? I went back and forth trying to figure out what you were asking me.
Are you saying that the salad has a higher fat percentage than the alfredo so I would choose the alfredo dish over the salad?? I hope not because the salad is much lower in fat percentage to the calories as a whole and on top of that I would 86 avocado to drop that even more. so of course I would choose the salad. I am not sure where you got your math from.
KaraCooks
New member
Ok, I'm going to try to clarify this one more time - if we could all avoid the extremes like "if you drink a gallon of olive oil" or "if you only eat brownies" or other straw man arguments and actually read and discuss what the other person is saying it would REALLY help. 
For me it all boils down to what Jynus said at the very beginning of this thread:
Guess Who - it appears to me that what you're saying (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that you should not eat any individual food in which the fat content is more than 20%. In other words, you look at fat content PER INDIVIDUAL FOOD rather than as a percentage of your overall daily intake. Is that correct?
My position is that it's possible to consume a daily intake that is lower in fat and still include individual foods that have a higher percentage than 20% of healthy (healthy being the key word) fats.
For example, my food yesterday came in at 27% fat. Among other things I ate yesterday were avocado, olive oil, and egg - all of which, individually, have more than 20% fat.
However, I combined them with things like zucchini, spinach, brown rice, onion, bell peppers, apples, and other items that have nearly 0% fat ... so while some items were higher in fat, others were lower, which balances out.
And by so doing I didn't have to eliminate healthy items like avocado and olive oil from my day.
The problem with telling people to look at each food individually is that it encourages people to think of things like avocados and nuts as "bad food" and it encourages them to chose foods only based on fat content, rather than considering the whole balance of an entire meal or an entire day.
I don't have a problem with someone saying "keep your total fat for the day to around 20%". I have a problem with eliminating otherwise healthy foods that should be eaten in moderation simply because they don't meet an arbitrary percentage.
I submit that it is HEALTHIER as well as more conducive to weight loss for someone to eat a whole avocado for lunch (at 80% fat) than it is for them to eat a serving of fat free Pringles (which is 0% fat) and therefore the idea that each food you eat needs to be low fat is a fallacy.
For me it all boils down to what Jynus said at the very beginning of this thread:
Guess Who - it appears to me that what you're saying (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that you should not eat any individual food in which the fat content is more than 20%. In other words, you look at fat content PER INDIVIDUAL FOOD rather than as a percentage of your overall daily intake. Is that correct?
My position is that it's possible to consume a daily intake that is lower in fat and still include individual foods that have a higher percentage than 20% of healthy (healthy being the key word) fats.
For example, my food yesterday came in at 27% fat. Among other things I ate yesterday were avocado, olive oil, and egg - all of which, individually, have more than 20% fat.
However, I combined them with things like zucchini, spinach, brown rice, onion, bell peppers, apples, and other items that have nearly 0% fat ... so while some items were higher in fat, others were lower, which balances out.
And by so doing I didn't have to eliminate healthy items like avocado and olive oil from my day.
The problem with telling people to look at each food individually is that it encourages people to think of things like avocados and nuts as "bad food" and it encourages them to chose foods only based on fat content, rather than considering the whole balance of an entire meal or an entire day.
I don't have a problem with someone saying "keep your total fat for the day to around 20%". I have a problem with eliminating otherwise healthy foods that should be eaten in moderation simply because they don't meet an arbitrary percentage.
I submit that it is HEALTHIER as well as more conducive to weight loss for someone to eat a whole avocado for lunch (at 80% fat) than it is for them to eat a serving of fat free Pringles (which is 0% fat) and therefore the idea that each food you eat needs to be low fat is a fallacy.
Jeanette401
New member
The fat in the salad is 153 calories out of 223. That's 68%. The fat in the alfredo is 10 out of 500. That's 20%. 20% < 68%. The salad is not much lower in fat percentage to the calories - it's higher.
Why? My doctor & nutritionist both recommend the avocado. (As did another doctor giving advice on heart health) Are you saying I should ignore their professional advice?
Nutrition data -
Half avocado - 113 calories, 1g saturated fat, 10.5 g unsaturated
1/2 oz chicken tender -41 calories, .5 g sat fat, 2g unsaturated fat
1 tsp olive oil - 40 calories, 1g sat fat, 4g unsaturated fat
1 tsp red wine vinegar - 1 calorie, 0 fat
2 servings of salad greens - 28 calories, 0 fat
I was off - this is actually under 200 calories and does include an extra .5g of saturated fat.
I admit I overestimated the calories on the salad originally, but all that does is make the fat content even higher in comparison to the alfredo.
Okay I am starting to get your point, but alfredo has QUITE a bit more calories than 500 (depending on size of course) and a lot more fat than 10 evend if that is grams and calories.
Ok, I'm going to try to clarify this one more time - if we could all avoid the extremes like "if you drink a gallon of olive oil" or "if you only eat brownies" or other straw man arguments and actually read and discuss what the other person is saying it would REALLY help.
For me it all boils down to what Jynus said at the very beginning of this thread:
Guess Who - it appears to me that what you're saying (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that you should not eat any individual food in which the fat content is more than 20%. In other words, you look at fat content PER INDIVIDUAL FOOD rather than as a percentage of your overall daily intake. Is that correct?
My position is that it's possible to consume a daily intake that is lower in fat and still include individual foods that have a higher percentage than 20% of healthy (healthy being the key word) fats.
For example, my food yesterday came in at 27% fat. Among other things I ate yesterday were avocado, olive oil, and egg - all of which, individually, have more than 20% fat.
However, I combined them with things like zucchini, spinach, brown rice, onion, bell peppers, apples, and other items that have nearly 0% fat ... so while some items were higher in fat, others were lower, which balances out.
And by so doing I didn't have to eliminate healthy items like avocado and olive oil from my day.
The problem with telling people to look at each food individually is that it encourages people to think of things like avocados and nuts as "bad food" and it encourages them to chose foods only based on fat content, rather than considering the whole balance of an entire meal or an entire day.
I don't have a problem with someone saying "keep your total fat for the day to around 20%". I have a problem with eliminating otherwise healthy foods that should be eaten in moderation simply because they don't meet an arbitrary percentage.
I submit that it is HEALTHIER as well as more conducive to weight loss for someone to eat a whole avocado for lunch (at 80% fat) than it is for them to eat a serving of fat free Pringles (which is 0% fat) and therefore the idea that each food you eat needs to be low fat is a fallacy.
I will try to clarify better as well.
The things like almonds, avocado, olive oil, etc are neccesary for a healthy lifestyle yes! I don't think they should ever be given up completely. I even have those things when I am off the wagon for a day. What I am saying is that if you are on a mission to lose weight and get the end results that you really want then SLOW OXIDIZERS need to limit to the under 20% per serving of fat calories. You are still getting your macro balance of somewhere around 20% per day. Take an omega supplement for those other healthy oils. Slow oxidizer means that my body can only burn a certain amount of fat from one sitting. If my meal consists of 100% fat a small percentage will go to energy and then rest will be stored as fat. So I eat the amount that most likely my body will convert to energy. This mainly happens because I was once obese. It's the difference between me eating hamburgers and gaining 90lbs and my best friend who eats WORSE than I do and can still manage to fit into a bikini.
You add those things back in but still on a limited basis. I mean this in a sincere way, are people really that scared of dropping dead from not enough healthy oils? Bottom line here is that people want to lose weight, and I am not saying take any drugs or anything and it's not a magic pill. It's still very hard work and I can't have my glass of wine everynight!
If you truly have a set goal of being healthy only! You really aren't concerned with how you look in a bikini or how you look naked with a partner then by all means yes keep that healthy lifestyle and do great at it.
You can still be very healthy and not have the oils and stuff that you mention. I don't eat anything unhealthy nor do I take any kind of supplements other than my daily vitamins. I still drink a couple of drinks once a week and I got out to eat.
Now this being said anyone who is overweight and eats like crap then all of a sudden they turn to healthier eating, the only by product of that is weight loss. It is how I lost my 75lbs. However I stalled there and MOST (not all) people will stall and not get ultimate results. I can't explain to you how hard I worked to no avail. Just imagine how hard I worked and then multiply it by 100. I even went TOTALLY against my so called nutrition morals and my most arch enemy, and I agreed to go on Atkins as a bet for my girlfriend to quit smoking (she was a no carber and swore it would work for me so I bet her) still nothing. A genius said it best when he said "hmm if I was working that hard and saw those results, my next meal would be a .38 special"
Kara you are right about the chips aspect of it. You may not remember but I state that processed foods are crap! Also there is common sense here you know don't go eating fat free chips all the time and think you are going to lose weight. The only processed foods in my eating is the condiments and most of the time those are just for recipes.
Also like I said moderation is fine. I get those fats when I have a cheat meal which is maybe once every two weeks sometimes more but that is true moderation. Most people think that once every 5 hours is moderation because it is not every 2 hours.
It comes down to constantly improving and making better choices. To me (and sorry if you get offended anyone) adding chocolate into your daily routine JUST because you think it will help you stay on your diet is not moderating or making a better choice.
It honestly to me is the same thing as me drinking me every Saturday and drinking say two bottles of wine, and then me telling myself "I drink way too much, it is effecting me, and I need to stop now!" and then allowing myself a glass of wine every night. Instead lay off the drinking to maybe two glasses a week.
KaraCooks
New member
Ok. Maybe we're making some progress here. And we're probably just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
I learned a long time ago I cannot assume that anyone seeking advice about nutrition on a message board has any knowledge of the subject. Most of the time I will start as basic as possible and apologize in advance if I'm touching on something they already know.
I never think that a supplement is an acceptable substitute for real food. I will always choose to eat a real food with other nutrients over a pill.
I do know of many people who have taken the whole low fat concept to the extreme and suffered negative results because of it.
I disagree. Studies have shown that people who do not consume a sufficient quantity of healthy oils and fats have issues absorbing certain nutrients. Vitamins E, K, D, and A are fat soluble vitamins that require some quantity of healthy fat in your body to process properly. Additionally healthy fats have been shown to lower levels of LDL cholesterol. (More info here and be sure to check out the related links at the bottom of the article as well: )
You have to remember when you post to a board like this, you're often talking to people who have NO knowledge of nutrition. When you tell them to avoid foods that are greater than 20% fat and don't give any other information, you will find someone who will think that my example of chips is ok ... because it meets that 20% per food guideline.
I learned a long time ago I cannot assume that anyone seeking advice about nutrition on a message board has any knowledge of the subject. Most of the time I will start as basic as possible and apologize in advance if I'm touching on something they already know.
However, adding a small serving of chocolate, while still keeping it within their healthy ranges of calories and macros CAN help someone who might otherwise give into a craving and eat something unhealthy or eat it in unhealthy quantities.
Jeanette401
New member
Actually, 500 calories of Olive Garden's fettucine alfredo was 11g of fat. (That's about 2/3 of what they put on your plate) If you cut it down to 450 and add in 50 calories worth of sun dried tomatoes, 10g of fat is about right (although probably only 6g of that would be saturated).
I did some looking into slow oxidizers, but didn't see anything about how anyone over weight is probably a slow oxidizer... Everything I've heard recently is that dietary fat cannot be turned directly into body fat. If you can't digest all the fat at once, then shouldn't it either be removed, or processed later after you've burned some body fat to supply calories? I understand your intentions are good, but at the same time the advice you're giving (keep the fat under 20% to lose weight) is contradictory with what my nutritionist & doctor say, and with what I myself did to lose 70 lbs.
I think you should eat healthier, but I just don't see healthy fats higher than 20% being a problem with weight loss. Especially with the study I linked before showing actual evidence that the higher fat percentage didn't cause stalls or other problems with weight loss in live, overweight people.
treehugger
New member
I'm definitely not an expert, but just from reading the opposing viewpoints here, I can see that you both have different goals in mind. Some of us, want to lead "normal" healthy lives and even though we do want to lose weight, we want to do it in a manner that doesn't feel like we are on an endless "diet." We want to have a healthy lifestyle. Thus, a couple of chocolate chips now and then or even daily, really isn't going to make a hill of beans in the long run if our over all daily diet is a good and balanced one. Being serverly strict is going to drive some right over the edge into a bigger bing, like eating several chocolate cupcakes, instead of feeling like they really don't need to do that because their sweet tooth has been satisified by something far smaller.
I tend to fall into that camp. My weightloss has been very gradual. I'm not in a race and I am not going to be in any body building competitions even though I do want to have a great body, more for health's sake though. Therefore, I don't really stress myself out by having "totally off limit foods" I can have anything I want, I may just have to have a tiny bit of it or not have something else on that day. It's just more of a changing one's lifestyle thing rather than feeling like a forever diet from hell.
I equate it to picking an exercise you enjoy. It will make you more apt to stay with it than doing something that makes you miserable. JMO
The supplement is not forever. It is until you get to your ultimate goal however I just mentioned taking that for people who really feel they need to get those OILS in.
You also have to remember that other things have unsaturated fats that you eat throughout the day and they are not in the form of 100% additives.
Chicken, Romaine lettuce (yes it has a small amount of fat) tomatoes, onions. On top of that I use Pam and that is 100% oil which is 100% fat. Fish has it. Salmon is not the only fish that has it (however it is the highest and over that 20% limit)
let me ask this, five meals is your daily routine and let's say you do the perfect weights (ounces, cups, etc)
So you have five grilled chicken salads. Each with your portion of ingredients and each one has a 2 teaspoons of olive oil in it do you think your fat % for the day is going to be 20-30%?
You also have to remember that other things have unsaturated fats that you eat throughout the day and they are not in the form of 100% additives.
Chicken, Romaine lettuce (yes it has a small amount of fat) tomatoes, onions. On top of that I use Pam and that is 100% oil which is 100% fat. Fish has it. Salmon is not the only fish that has it (however it is the highest and over that 20% limit)
let me ask this, five meals is your daily routine and let's say you do the perfect weights (ounces, cups, etc)
So you have five grilled chicken salads. Each with your portion of ingredients and each one has a 2 teaspoons of olive oil in it do you think your fat % for the day is going to be 20-30%?
KaraCooks
New member
Also I'd like to point out that losing weight to a healthy level and actual cutting - the way bodybuilders do it - are two different things.
Not everyone wants to look like a bodybuilder. The 2nd photo you posted - while I admire the achievement, that's NOT what I want to look like (and I mean no disrespect to you or anyone else who looks like that - it's just not what I find attractive).
So if what your advice is based on wanting to really get cut to that level ... that's not what I want. I think that's an important point to consider.
Not everyone wants to look like a bodybuilder. The 2nd photo you posted - while I admire the achievement, that's NOT what I want to look like (and I mean no disrespect to you or anyone else who looks like that - it's just not what I find attractive).
So if what your advice is based on wanting to really get cut to that level ... that's not what I want. I think that's an important point to consider.
Jeanette,
We should stop with the math thing and comparisons!
Olive Garden's Fettucini (taken directly from their website at ) has:
1220 calories and 75 grams of fat for their serving. This means that for every 16.266 calories there is a 1 gram of fat. So when you take 500 calories and divide that by 16.266 you get 31. This means that a 500 calories portion of OG's alfredo will have 31 grams of fat. I am done with this part now!
On the moderation thing. I believe in it like I said and I believe in cheats. To make my point do you feel like you are on a diet or deprived when you can't have chocolate everyday? Some people might but hey it's work to lose weight and there are sacrifices. I don't think someone feels deprived every single day and therefore adds something bad to their daily routine.
If my car broke down and I had to walk to work. I would feel deprived of my car but I have to get my ass to work so I walk. However after two weeks of this walking shit I decide that I want to take a cab today. That's how it should be looked at.
We should stop with the math thing and comparisons!
Olive Garden's Fettucini (taken directly from their website at ) has:
1220 calories and 75 grams of fat for their serving. This means that for every 16.266 calories there is a 1 gram of fat. So when you take 500 calories and divide that by 16.266 you get 31. This means that a 500 calories portion of OG's alfredo will have 31 grams of fat. I am done with this part now!
On the moderation thing. I believe in it like I said and I believe in cheats. To make my point do you feel like you are on a diet or deprived when you can't have chocolate everyday? Some people might but hey it's work to lose weight and there are sacrifices. I don't think someone feels deprived every single day and therefore adds something bad to their daily routine.
If my car broke down and I had to walk to work. I would feel deprived of my car but I have to get my ass to work so I walk. However after two weeks of this walking shit I decide that I want to take a cab today. That's how it should be looked at.
treehugger
New member
I used to, so I had a little bit everyday. I do mean a little bit though and then it was done. A little bit of something isn't going to make or break anyones day, not even if it is everyday. They just need to behave w/ the rest of it. That way, it doesn't feel like so much of a sacrifice.
KaraCooks
New member
I believe in moderation, but not in "cheats". Here's my philosophy on cheat days or cheat meals or cheat items (taken from another post I made a while back):
Now I wrote this about eating unhealthy foods like cake and cookies and drinking and so forth, but I believe it holds true in other areas as well. I prefer moderation in everything to the idea that you deprive yourself most of the time and "cheat" once in a blue moon.