I have to eat THAT MUCH?!!!
- Thread starter MysticRealm
- Start date
amylosesandwins
New member
I take in between 1500 and 2000 kcals in a day, and I'm still losing weight. I just try to go for the most nutrient-dense foods I can eat. It seems to be working for me.
maverick2
New member
I know I easily consume 2,000 calories a day, work out intensely for 30 minutes a day, and I'm still losing weight. (Well, I don't know if I'm losing weight because I'm on a scale sabbatical, but I'm definitely losing inches and pant sizes.)
Personally (and this is pure opinion and circumstance) I don't want to lose weight in a way that doesn't allow me to eat "regular" food. I just don't want to eat something completely different from my family and friends all the time.
I think if you keep your caloric intake too low, you run the risk of driving your body into starvation mode, which not only keeps you from losing any weight, but causes you to slowly gain it all back in fat any time you deviate from your lowest caloric intake, pound by pound, as your body scrabbles for every bit of emergency storage it can manage.
I guess it's an individual thing. But 1,200 and lower for anybody but the most petite of sedentary people seems REALLY low to me.
Personally (and this is pure opinion and circumstance) I don't want to lose weight in a way that doesn't allow me to eat "regular" food. I just don't want to eat something completely different from my family and friends all the time.
I think if you keep your caloric intake too low, you run the risk of driving your body into starvation mode, which not only keeps you from losing any weight, but causes you to slowly gain it all back in fat any time you deviate from your lowest caloric intake, pound by pound, as your body scrabbles for every bit of emergency storage it can manage.
I guess it's an individual thing. But 1,200 and lower for anybody but the most petite of sedentary people seems REALLY low to me.
MysticRealm
New member
Just so everyone knows (I have posted this other places but everyone might not have seen it) I actually am eating into the 1800's everyday. I don't know why the calculations were so off the first day I did it but since then it's been pretty consistently at 1800 (while still eating the same things in the same amounts).
That sounds like a lot, but the body is very smart. You are pretty active and the body knows how much it needs to keep you going. For instance, I was surprised to find out that my body burns about 1781 cals a day even if I just watch tv! That's to keep my heart beating and may lungs breathing. To reach and maintain my target weight (165 lbs) I need 2650 cals. So that leaves 859 cals for me to get off the couch a use the bathroom, go to the fridge, look for the remote, etc...(lol...I'm not that lazy). My point is, If your body thinks you are not getting enough cals to keep it going... it's gonna hold out on you. That means stored fat. This is called the famine reaction. Your body just wants to know it's gonna make it through the week.
If this were the case, why is obesity an epidemic?
Our bodies aren't smart, in all actuality. Well, it really depends on how you look at it. From one angle, it might be too smart for its own good. Or just to slow to adapt. It's all perception.
Theres a few things. If we look at our history, and how as hunter gatherers, we did not have a continuous food supply for the large part of human history, you can see we had to develop the ability to survive periods with low to no energy. Because of this, the body wants to store excess energy as fat. It's calorically dense, easily stored etc.
Muscle is energetically costly...... ultimately asides from the base level, excess muscle is worthless to the body.
So when the early man found a huge stash of food, he would gorge until he full and then some, gaining some fat. This was a constant in order for survival of our species that was practiced for a lot longer of a time than we can fathom.
When the winter came they needed enough energy to maintain life during this period.
Since caloric overconsumption has never been an issue until now, humans have a good drive to eat, hormonally speaking.... systems that notice eating less, and they attempt to drive food intake upwards.
But the systems in place to detect overconsumption are relatively weak. The body has a slight idea the weight is getting up, but it just doesn't care as much, especially past around 15-20% BF where leptin receptor saturation occurs.
So again, it's not as 'smart' as you think if you look at it from that angle.
The body doesn't 'think' on a week by week basis. If it were true, obesity would not be an epidemic.
Last edited:
NoMoreBellyFat
New member
It's not about the calories
Dear Mystic,
I know that everyone has an opinion, and much of the information out there is confusing. I also know that there are individuals on this site that believe that calorie counting is the way to reach a weight loss goal. Perhaps this has worked for them -- that's wonderful, and they are to be congratulated.
However, if it were that simple, then 66% of the adult population in this country would not be over-weight. Restricting calories slows down your metabolism. It makes your thyroid think you are starving, and it sends the body into conservation mode. This is why people who go on a calorie restricted diet will often lose weight -- reaching their goal -- then, as soon as they stop restricting calories, they gain back every pound they lost, and often 10 pounds or so more -- the Yo-Yo Dieters.
It isn't how many calories you consume -- it's what kind of calories you consume. This is not just an opinion -- this information is readily available in the medical book Guyton's Physiology if you can plow through the book to find it. The body has two fuel sources: fat and sugar. It is physiologically impossible to burn fat in the presence of even a tiny bit of sugar, because fat is the "reserve tank" like in your car. You don't get to burn the fat until all of the sugar fuel is gone.
The very first thing you can do to help yourself is to skip the bread, pasta, cereal, rice, pancakes, waffles, muffins, biscuits, energy bars, juice, and any refined sugar or corn syrup products. Even whole grains, once acted upon by the amylase (an enzyme in your saliva), turn into sugar. I'm not saying that whole grains are bad or unhealthy or have no benefit -- just that they will keep you from lasting weight loss.
Eat lots of whole fruits and vegetables, ideally at least half organic. The pesticides and insecticides sprayed on "conventional" produce mimic estrogen, one of three FAT MAKING HORMONES. Animal protein in small amounts, with no growth hormones (if it is "farm raised" fish, there are hormones added; if the meat or poultry doesn't specifically say "no hormones added" there are hormones added). If the hormones can make a turkey Butterball sized, and you are eating that Butterball, doesn't it stand to reason that it could then make you "Butterball sized"?
If you are interested in more information, feel free to go to my website -- look around, take the quiz there, watch the video on the site. The caption above says "This is an attempt to bring in the professionals." I am a professional -- my practice specialty is stubborn weight loss cases. I wish you the best of luck, and much success!
Dear Mystic,
I know that everyone has an opinion, and much of the information out there is confusing. I also know that there are individuals on this site that believe that calorie counting is the way to reach a weight loss goal. Perhaps this has worked for them -- that's wonderful, and they are to be congratulated.
However, if it were that simple, then 66% of the adult population in this country would not be over-weight. Restricting calories slows down your metabolism. It makes your thyroid think you are starving, and it sends the body into conservation mode. This is why people who go on a calorie restricted diet will often lose weight -- reaching their goal -- then, as soon as they stop restricting calories, they gain back every pound they lost, and often 10 pounds or so more -- the Yo-Yo Dieters.
It isn't how many calories you consume -- it's what kind of calories you consume. This is not just an opinion -- this information is readily available in the medical book Guyton's Physiology if you can plow through the book to find it. The body has two fuel sources: fat and sugar. It is physiologically impossible to burn fat in the presence of even a tiny bit of sugar, because fat is the "reserve tank" like in your car. You don't get to burn the fat until all of the sugar fuel is gone.
The very first thing you can do to help yourself is to skip the bread, pasta, cereal, rice, pancakes, waffles, muffins, biscuits, energy bars, juice, and any refined sugar or corn syrup products. Even whole grains, once acted upon by the amylase (an enzyme in your saliva), turn into sugar. I'm not saying that whole grains are bad or unhealthy or have no benefit -- just that they will keep you from lasting weight loss.
Eat lots of whole fruits and vegetables, ideally at least half organic. The pesticides and insecticides sprayed on "conventional" produce mimic estrogen, one of three FAT MAKING HORMONES. Animal protein in small amounts, with no growth hormones (if it is "farm raised" fish, there are hormones added; if the meat or poultry doesn't specifically say "no hormones added" there are hormones added). If the hormones can make a turkey Butterball sized, and you are eating that Butterball, doesn't it stand to reason that it could then make you "Butterball sized"?
If you are interested in more information, feel free to go to my website -- look around, take the quiz there, watch the video on the site. The caption above says "This is an attempt to bring in the professionals." I am a professional -- my practice specialty is stubborn weight loss cases. I wish you the best of luck, and much success!
You're a doctor?
Wow, that's about the most misinformation I've seen packed into one post in a long while.
I mean, it's fine to say you're basing this on opinion and everyone has their own opinions. This is true.
But there are a lot of facts out there that really can't be disputed and you gloss right over them as if they didn't exist.
Just my opinion, is all.
NoMoreBellyFat
New member
Indisputable facts from Guyton's Physiology, et.al.
Steve, I admire your passion and your commitment to helping people. I think it's wonderful that you have as much time to spend here on the site as you do, and I'm sure that everyone is really grateful for your dedication. As you can see, I am new to the forum, and still learning my way around it, but I too would like to help people -- especially the ones that are "stuck." I'm not sure how often I will be able to check here -- as with everyone else, it will be as my schedule permits.
Yes, I'm a doctor. It appears that you are a body builder. Would you agree that the hormone testosterone is linked to aggression,
or must I cite peer reviewed studies that confirm this? 
It appears that the language I used in my reply was less precise than it should have been -- my apologies:
What I should have said is that it isn't ONLY how many calories one consumes . . . because there are other factors involved. Of course consuming 33,000 calories per day, for example, will cause one to be over-weight. Yes -- overeating will make one fat. That said, there are individuals who are consuming 1200 calories per day, exercising every day, and still are stuck, and can't lose weight. Why? Usually, it is because the hormone communication system in the body is not functioning optimally.
The idea that one simply needs to restrict calories and exercise more to lose weight was the predominant thinking 20 years ago. That is no longer the case. It is now becoming clear that hormones have a significant influence not only on one's weight, but what types of food they crave, and in what areas of the body they tend to store fat.
Of the well over 500 hormones in the body, three of them are responsible, directly or indirectly for storing fat: cortisol, insulin and estrogen (and 6 of them are responsible for burning fat -- anyone who wants to know what they are and how they are optimized, respond here, and I will post the data -- sources properly cited, of course!).
"Excess cortisol leads to . . . abnormal fat distribution without a marked gain in weight, characterized by the establishment of a moon face, a pendulous abdomen, and fat pads supraclavicularly and over the 7th vertebra (known as a buffalo hump)." Netter, CIBA Collection of Medical Illustrations, Vol. 4, 85.
"Persons with excess cortisol secretion frequently develop a peculiar type of obesity, with excess deposition of fat in the chest and head regions of the body, giving a buffalo-like torso and a rounded face called a 'moon face.' " Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 916.
"Whenever a greater quantity of carbohydrates enters the body than can be used immediately for energy or stored in the form of glycogen, the excess is rapidly converted into triglicerides and then stored in this form in the adipose tissue. . . Lack of availability of carbohydrates automatically increases the rate of removal of fatty acids from adipose tissues. . . When carbohydrates are not utilized for energy, almost all the energy of the body must come from metabolism of fats." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 822.
"In place of fat utilization, the carbohydrates are used preferentially. Thus, an excess of carbohydrates in the diet not only acts as a fat-sparer, but also increases the fat in the fat stores." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 823.
"The over-all catabolic errect of excess cortisol brings about marked muscle wasting, especially in the quadriceps femoris group, with early inability to mount stairs." Netter, CIBA Collection of Medical Illustrations, Vol. 4, 85.
" . . . estrogen inhibits thyroid action in the cells, probably interfering with the binding of thyroid to its receptor. Both hormones have phenol rings at a corner of their molecule. Estrogen may compete with thyroid hormone at the site of its receptor. In so doing, the thyroid hormone may never complete its mission, creating the hypothryroid symptoms, despite normal serum levels of thyroid hormone." Lee, What Your Doctor May not Tell you About Menopause, 147.
"It's known that the thyroid contains receptors for estrogen, and that estrogen imbalances can inhibit proper thyroid hormone secretion . . . The symptoms of estrogen dominance are very similar to side effects and symptoms of hypothyroidism, and, in fact, hypothyroidism is sometimes considered a symptom of estrogen dominance." Shomon, Living Well with Hypothyroidism, 268.
"When considering hormones such as estradiol, the most potent estrogen, forget parts per million or parts per billion. The concentrations are typically parts per trillion, one thousand times lover than parts per billion. One can begin to imagine a quantity so infinitesimally small by thinking of a drop of gin in a train of tank cars full of tonic. One drop in 660 tank cars would be one part in a trillion; such a train would be six miles long." Colborn, Dumanoski, and Myers, Our Stolen Future, 40.
"Insulin has several different effects that lead to fat storage in adipose tissue. One is the simple fact that insulin increases the utilization of glucose by most of the body's tissues, which automatically decreases the utilization of fat, thus functioning as a 'fat sparer.' However, insulin also promotes fatty acid synthesis." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 926.
"Therefore, one of the most important functional roles of insulin in the body is to control which of these two foods [carbohydrates or fat] from moment to moment will be utilized by the cells for energy." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 930.
"Triglycerides are synthesized mainly from carbohydrates in the liver and are transported to the adipose tissue and other peripheral tissues in the very low density lipoproteins." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 819.
"Whenever a greater quantity of carbohydrates enters the body than can be used immediately for energy or stored in the form of glycogen, the excess is rapidly converted into triglycerides and then stored in the form in the adipose tissue. Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 822.
"All aspects of fat metabolism are greatly enhanced in the absence of insulin." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 927.
"But also important are several hormonal changes that take place to promote rapid fatty acid mobilization from adipose tissue. Among the most important of these is a marked decrease in insulin secretion caused by the absence of carbohydrates. This not only reduces the rate of glucose utilization by the tissues, but also decreases fat synthesis, which further shifts the equilibrium in favor of fat utilization in place of carbohydrates." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 824.
"Lack of availability of carbohydrates automatically increases the rate of removal of fatty acids from adipose tissues." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 822.
Therefore, when insulin is not available to promote glucose entry into the fat cells, fat storage is totally blocked." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 927.
"When the glucose concentration is low, insulin secretion is suppressed and fat is utilized almost exclusively for energy everywhere except in the brain." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 930.
In the absence of insulin, all the effects of insulin noted above causing the storage of fat are reversed." Guyton, Texbook of Medical Physiology, 927.
"Low sugar and high fat intake favor fat utilization, with resultant ketonemia: [ketones in the blood stream]." Netter, CIBA Collection of Medical Illustrations, Vol.3, 37.
"After 3 to 49 days on a high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet, fat oxidation usually increased compared with a control diet." Achten and Jeukendrup, "Optimizing Fat Oxidation" 723.
Estrogen is responsible for the female characteristics, menstrual cycle, and changes of the uterus and breasts. It provides the fat layer around a female body, especially around the hips, buttocks, and outer thighs.
Cortisol is an important hormone produced by the adrenal glands, which acts to counter stress responses. It is anti-inflammatory and releases sugar from the liver and muscles into the blood as an instant fuel source for stressful events. Cortisol is classified as a fat burner, however, it indirectly takes body-muscle proteins and turns them into fat around the abdomen by forcing insulin to deal with excess sugar in the bloodstream.
Insulin is made by the pancreas. Its job is to lower blood sugar after meals or a stress response. It will cause cells to absorb sugar as fuel and convert the rest to fat and cholesterol. In the presence of insulin, you will not be able to burn fat. (see above references to medical textbooks) Sugar and refined carbohydrates trigger insulin.
Steve, I hope this is helpful for you. Since based on your other posts, I thought it best to respond to you with direct quotes from what amount to some of the "bibles" of medical school like Guyton and Netter -- unassailable sources -- if you need any explanation or clarification of these concepts in lay terms, I'll be happy to provide that when I have time.
Also, if you let me know to which "facts out there that really can't be disputed that have glossed over," you are referring, I will be happy to give them my utmost attention as my schedule permits. Also, since you didn't specify what you consider to be "misinformation" I took a broad approach. If you have any remaining issues that I didn't cover with this post, do feel free . . .
Steve, I admire your passion and your commitment to helping people. I think it's wonderful that you have as much time to spend here on the site as you do, and I'm sure that everyone is really grateful for your dedication. As you can see, I am new to the forum, and still learning my way around it, but I too would like to help people -- especially the ones that are "stuck." I'm not sure how often I will be able to check here -- as with everyone else, it will be as my schedule permits.
Yes, I'm a doctor. It appears that you are a body builder. Would you agree that the hormone testosterone is linked to aggression,
or must I cite peer reviewed studies that confirm this? It appears that the language I used in my reply was less precise than it should have been -- my apologies:
What I should have said is that it isn't ONLY how many calories one consumes . . . because there are other factors involved. Of course consuming 33,000 calories per day, for example, will cause one to be over-weight. Yes -- overeating will make one fat. That said, there are individuals who are consuming 1200 calories per day, exercising every day, and still are stuck, and can't lose weight. Why? Usually, it is because the hormone communication system in the body is not functioning optimally.
The idea that one simply needs to restrict calories and exercise more to lose weight was the predominant thinking 20 years ago. That is no longer the case. It is now becoming clear that hormones have a significant influence not only on one's weight, but what types of food they crave, and in what areas of the body they tend to store fat.
Of the well over 500 hormones in the body, three of them are responsible, directly or indirectly for storing fat: cortisol, insulin and estrogen (and 6 of them are responsible for burning fat -- anyone who wants to know what they are and how they are optimized, respond here, and I will post the data -- sources properly cited, of course!).
"Excess cortisol leads to . . . abnormal fat distribution without a marked gain in weight, characterized by the establishment of a moon face, a pendulous abdomen, and fat pads supraclavicularly and over the 7th vertebra (known as a buffalo hump)." Netter, CIBA Collection of Medical Illustrations, Vol. 4, 85.
"Persons with excess cortisol secretion frequently develop a peculiar type of obesity, with excess deposition of fat in the chest and head regions of the body, giving a buffalo-like torso and a rounded face called a 'moon face.' " Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 916.
"Whenever a greater quantity of carbohydrates enters the body than can be used immediately for energy or stored in the form of glycogen, the excess is rapidly converted into triglicerides and then stored in this form in the adipose tissue. . . Lack of availability of carbohydrates automatically increases the rate of removal of fatty acids from adipose tissues. . . When carbohydrates are not utilized for energy, almost all the energy of the body must come from metabolism of fats." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 822.
"In place of fat utilization, the carbohydrates are used preferentially. Thus, an excess of carbohydrates in the diet not only acts as a fat-sparer, but also increases the fat in the fat stores." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 823.
"The over-all catabolic errect of excess cortisol brings about marked muscle wasting, especially in the quadriceps femoris group, with early inability to mount stairs." Netter, CIBA Collection of Medical Illustrations, Vol. 4, 85.
" . . . estrogen inhibits thyroid action in the cells, probably interfering with the binding of thyroid to its receptor. Both hormones have phenol rings at a corner of their molecule. Estrogen may compete with thyroid hormone at the site of its receptor. In so doing, the thyroid hormone may never complete its mission, creating the hypothryroid symptoms, despite normal serum levels of thyroid hormone." Lee, What Your Doctor May not Tell you About Menopause, 147.
"It's known that the thyroid contains receptors for estrogen, and that estrogen imbalances can inhibit proper thyroid hormone secretion . . . The symptoms of estrogen dominance are very similar to side effects and symptoms of hypothyroidism, and, in fact, hypothyroidism is sometimes considered a symptom of estrogen dominance." Shomon, Living Well with Hypothyroidism, 268.
"When considering hormones such as estradiol, the most potent estrogen, forget parts per million or parts per billion. The concentrations are typically parts per trillion, one thousand times lover than parts per billion. One can begin to imagine a quantity so infinitesimally small by thinking of a drop of gin in a train of tank cars full of tonic. One drop in 660 tank cars would be one part in a trillion; such a train would be six miles long." Colborn, Dumanoski, and Myers, Our Stolen Future, 40.
"Insulin has several different effects that lead to fat storage in adipose tissue. One is the simple fact that insulin increases the utilization of glucose by most of the body's tissues, which automatically decreases the utilization of fat, thus functioning as a 'fat sparer.' However, insulin also promotes fatty acid synthesis." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 926.
"Therefore, one of the most important functional roles of insulin in the body is to control which of these two foods [carbohydrates or fat] from moment to moment will be utilized by the cells for energy." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 930.
"Triglycerides are synthesized mainly from carbohydrates in the liver and are transported to the adipose tissue and other peripheral tissues in the very low density lipoproteins." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 819.
"Whenever a greater quantity of carbohydrates enters the body than can be used immediately for energy or stored in the form of glycogen, the excess is rapidly converted into triglycerides and then stored in the form in the adipose tissue. Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 822.
"All aspects of fat metabolism are greatly enhanced in the absence of insulin." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 927.
"But also important are several hormonal changes that take place to promote rapid fatty acid mobilization from adipose tissue. Among the most important of these is a marked decrease in insulin secretion caused by the absence of carbohydrates. This not only reduces the rate of glucose utilization by the tissues, but also decreases fat synthesis, which further shifts the equilibrium in favor of fat utilization in place of carbohydrates." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 824.
"Lack of availability of carbohydrates automatically increases the rate of removal of fatty acids from adipose tissues." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 822.
Therefore, when insulin is not available to promote glucose entry into the fat cells, fat storage is totally blocked." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 927.
"When the glucose concentration is low, insulin secretion is suppressed and fat is utilized almost exclusively for energy everywhere except in the brain." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 930.
In the absence of insulin, all the effects of insulin noted above causing the storage of fat are reversed." Guyton, Texbook of Medical Physiology, 927.
"Low sugar and high fat intake favor fat utilization, with resultant ketonemia: [ketones in the blood stream]." Netter, CIBA Collection of Medical Illustrations, Vol.3, 37.
"After 3 to 49 days on a high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet, fat oxidation usually increased compared with a control diet." Achten and Jeukendrup, "Optimizing Fat Oxidation" 723.
Estrogen is responsible for the female characteristics, menstrual cycle, and changes of the uterus and breasts. It provides the fat layer around a female body, especially around the hips, buttocks, and outer thighs.
Cortisol is an important hormone produced by the adrenal glands, which acts to counter stress responses. It is anti-inflammatory and releases sugar from the liver and muscles into the blood as an instant fuel source for stressful events. Cortisol is classified as a fat burner, however, it indirectly takes body-muscle proteins and turns them into fat around the abdomen by forcing insulin to deal with excess sugar in the bloodstream.
Insulin is made by the pancreas. Its job is to lower blood sugar after meals or a stress response. It will cause cells to absorb sugar as fuel and convert the rest to fat and cholesterol. In the presence of insulin, you will not be able to burn fat. (see above references to medical textbooks) Sugar and refined carbohydrates trigger insulin.
Steve, I hope this is helpful for you. Since based on your other posts, I thought it best to respond to you with direct quotes from what amount to some of the "bibles" of medical school like Guyton and Netter -- unassailable sources -- if you need any explanation or clarification of these concepts in lay terms, I'll be happy to provide that when I have time.
Also, if you let me know to which "facts out there that really can't be disputed that have glossed over," you are referring, I will be happy to give them my utmost attention as my schedule permits. Also, since you didn't specify what you consider to be "misinformation" I took a broad approach. If you have any remaining issues that I didn't cover with this post, do feel free . . .
James2
New member
Kinda rude. If you're new to a group of people, you might want to check your attitude, at least until people get to know you better, doctor. No one here came to you for your advice, or asked you to peddle your site or philosophy. Discussion is great, and promotes progress. Stuff like that quote makes people dig their heels in.
--James
(Not a MD, but I've lived on planet earth)
brunettegoddess
New member
Dr. Kim is not an MD... she's an accupuncturist... all her degrees seem to come from the same school which is the Midwest College of Oriental Medicine.
And if we're going to bring up hormones... men may have hormonal links to aggression, but women also have links to mood swings and bitchiness.
And if we're going to bring up hormones... men may have hormonal links to aggression, but women also have links to mood swings and bitchiness.
James2
New member
Also, 'cause I'm feeling saucy, anyone can come in and post whatever they feel like, and copy/paste a bunch of references and articles. Let's look at your first post. After having read it a few times, here was the crux of the post:
I don't see any reference to that in any of the numerous hormone related posts that you just posted. You went from arguing that restricting calories slows your metabolism to saying that its not necessarily caloric intake, but a hormonal imbalance...
I don't see any reference to that in any of the numerous hormone related posts that you just posted. You went from arguing that restricting calories slows your metabolism to saying that its not necessarily caloric intake, but a hormonal imbalance...
NoMoreBellyFat
New member
Please accept my humblest and sincerest apology. It won't happen again.
NoMoreBellyFat
New member
As I mentioned in my unintentionally rude post (it was a poor attempt at humor, lacking the subtext of body language and facial expression to give it proper context), I was imprecise in my language. Overeating (calories) will cause one to be over weight. However, restricting calories will slow the metabolism.
The following quote was copied and pasted -- I cited the link. The references in the other post were not copied and pasted, they were referenced by hand, and typed by hand (obvious if only from the typographical errors, such as "lover" for "lower" and others).
"Although not established yet, many thyroidologists consider lowered plasma T3 production during caloric deprivation and during illness (see below) as an adaptation mechanism, since energy and protein (i.e. organ function) are being conserved . . . Since the initial description of TH effects on metabolic rate more than 100 years ago, many theories have been proposed to explain its mechanism of hormone action."
Restricting calories causes changes in thryroid hormone availability, which in turn, slows metabolism. So, yes, restricting calories can cause a hormonal change which is responsible for slowing the metabolism. I fail to see how that is inconsistent.
I
Thanks.
Maybe.
I'm here b/c I like being here. And yup, the free time is nice.
Good luck.
Some people are not so fortunate with flexibility in schedule. It's understood.
Very cool.
A doctor of?
That's funny that you assume this.
You are quite wrong.
Funny nonetheless though.
Yup, what's your point?
Or is this you trying to be insulting?
No need for apologies.
Wrong information is wrong information no matter how you slice it.
It's interesting to see how some people respond though when they are called on the misinformation they give. Don't ya think?
-------------------------------------
What I find even more amusing is you assumption of what I considered wrong about your post. Here are my primary qualms I have with what you said:
It does a lot more to your body biologically than this, but yes... there is a survival adaptation associated with any diet.... diet in this context meaning an energetic deficit.
How do you suppose weight comes off in the absence of an energetic deficit? Put differently, how does one lose weight when being in an energetic surplus?
Answer these questions and we'll be golden.
Haha, I don't need science to prove that wrong.
They only gain the weight back if they go back to eating the way they were eating before they lost the weight.
I'm very interested in hearing how much you believe metabolism falls while dieting?
This tied into the context of what I stated above has me very confused.
You went on to say this in your second post:
Nobody was contesting this fact. And if you think this is news to anyone here, you are underestimating the intelligence of those who post here. It's well documented here that this community not only promotes caloric control (to do otherwise is ridiculous) but also healthy options to fill said caloric goal.
So by this, are you suggesting that if I ate 500 calories from sugar per day, and that was my sole intake, my body would not oxidize fat?
Are you suggesting that people are in an energetic deficit, yet can't lose weight?
If so, can you explain the mechanisms behind this please?
Hormones can reduce metabolic rate, yes. We are well aware of this.
But that doesn't change the fact that a deficit is still a deficit.
And the largest drop in metabolism ever recorded was only 30% and this was in a controlled, prolonged starvation setting.
Got that right.
The idea of caloric control though still holds it's very firm place as the primary driver in weight loss.
It's just the more we learn about the endocrinology of it all (leptin can be a bitch), we learn new ways to help manage said caloric control.
I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on Leptin. I'm quite surprised you didn't mention it here.
Thanks.
Maybe.
I'm here b/c I like being here. And yup, the free time is nice.
Good luck.
Some people are not so fortunate with flexibility in schedule. It's understood.
Very cool.
A doctor of?
That's funny that you assume this.
You are quite wrong.
Funny nonetheless though.
Would you agree that the hormone testosterone is linked to aggression,
Yup, what's your point?
Or is this you trying to be insulting?
No need for apologies.
Wrong information is wrong information no matter how you slice it.
It's interesting to see how some people respond though when they are called on the misinformation they give. Don't ya think?
-------------------------------------
What I find even more amusing is you assumption of what I considered wrong about your post. Here are my primary qualms I have with what you said:
It does a lot more to your body biologically than this, but yes... there is a survival adaptation associated with any diet.... diet in this context meaning an energetic deficit.
How do you suppose weight comes off in the absence of an energetic deficit? Put differently, how does one lose weight when being in an energetic surplus?
Answer these questions and we'll be golden.
Haha, I don't need science to prove that wrong.
They only gain the weight back if they go back to eating the way they were eating before they lost the weight.
I'm very interested in hearing how much you believe metabolism falls while dieting?
This tied into the context of what I stated above has me very confused.
You went on to say this in your second post:
Nobody was contesting this fact. And if you think this is news to anyone here, you are underestimating the intelligence of those who post here. It's well documented here that this community not only promotes caloric control (to do otherwise is ridiculous) but also healthy options to fill said caloric goal.
So by this, are you suggesting that if I ate 500 calories from sugar per day, and that was my sole intake, my body would not oxidize fat?
Are you suggesting that people are in an energetic deficit, yet can't lose weight?
If so, can you explain the mechanisms behind this please?
Hormones can reduce metabolic rate, yes. We are well aware of this.
But that doesn't change the fact that a deficit is still a deficit.
And the largest drop in metabolism ever recorded was only 30% and this was in a controlled, prolonged starvation setting.
Got that right.
The idea of caloric control though still holds it's very firm place as the primary driver in weight loss.
It's just the more we learn about the endocrinology of it all (leptin can be a bitch), we learn new ways to help manage said caloric control.
I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on Leptin. I'm quite surprised you didn't mention it here.
Ii
With regards to your pitiful list below, I sent it on to a friend of mine who does more research than I could ever. He is a Research Scientist, with a focus towards protein metabolism, human research with side interests in muscle metabolism, weight management and performance.
I'd love to hear your responses once you find some of your precious time. His responses to each fall right in line with what I've said above. It seems like you grossly downplay the role of thermodynamics:
How does cortisol form energy if the body in a hypocaloric state?
How does cortisol form energy if the body in a hypocaloric state?
Provide some peer reviewed evidence for existance of decent denoivo lipogenesis in the absense of raised caloric intake. Not a text book.
Once again, not a text book. Explain how carbohydrates influence fat balance in iso or hypo caloric situations?
Let me guess, the comment is relating to Cushings or similar? Now provide evidence based upon normal physiological ranges of cortisol.
Now exaplain how this creates a magical situation that creates energy when there is none.
Once again
If the body is in negative energy balance, how does insulin store excess fat? Especially understanding the concept of fat balance.
Except no mention of creating energy out of thin air.
Mainly is a word of contention, but once again, what happens with this triglyceride in the face of hypo or iso caloric situation?
Once again, what happens in the face of hypo or iso caloric situation? aka Fat balance.
Yes, absence of insulin results in the greatest fat loss state ever. Its called death.
Unless fat balance is increased by consumption of fat. Or are you trying to make the claim that fat cannot store in the face of lowered insulin. If so, may i laugh heartily now?
Which it does, unless you eat fat. becasue as we all know, in the face of incomming fatty acids (FFA and especially chylomicrons from the digestion of food lipids) stimulates the release of ASP, which increases reesterification of fatty acid in the adipocyte, decreases HSL activity, increases FAS activity, LPL and onwards.
hahahahahhahaha hahahahahhahahaha ahh hah haha ha haha
Somebody needs to step into the 1990's
Could you provide some peer reviewed evidence base for this. Totally blocked? oh dear, I know that text books love to provide unsubstantiated stuff, but that is excellent.
Well the body has to use something for energy, fatty acids to ketones, ketones for energy. Protein oxidised for energy or converted back through to glucose. Provide the body enough fatty acids(yaay food) the body doesnt have to utilize its endogenous stores of fat. Magic.
And only for the brain? What year is this 1975?
In the absence of insulin you die. Diabetes can be a bitch like that.
congrats on the Biochem 101 knowledge. What happens in the face of excess (aka hyper caloric) fat intake?
And? Of course fat oxidation raises. Fat balance, or the net flux in and out of the adipocyte may not change, because it depends on reducing uptake of fatty acid by the adipocyte and icnreasing output (and ultimately utilization of said fatty acid).
But of course insulin causes fat storage and nothing else. Ask yourself this, what effect does fasting levels of insulin have on fat metabolism, or the slightly raised level of insulin achieved by consuming a diet with higher levels of protein that is typical of the low cabrohydrate diet.
With regards to your pitiful list below, I sent it on to a friend of mine who does more research than I could ever. He is a Research Scientist, with a focus towards protein metabolism, human research with side interests in muscle metabolism, weight management and performance.
I'd love to hear your responses once you find some of your precious time. His responses to each fall right in line with what I've said above. It seems like you grossly downplay the role of thermodynamics:
How does cortisol form energy if the body in a hypocaloric state?
How does cortisol form energy if the body in a hypocaloric state?
Provide some peer reviewed evidence for existance of decent denoivo lipogenesis in the absense of raised caloric intake. Not a text book.
Once again, not a text book. Explain how carbohydrates influence fat balance in iso or hypo caloric situations?
Let me guess, the comment is relating to Cushings or similar? Now provide evidence based upon normal physiological ranges of cortisol.
Now exaplain how this creates a magical situation that creates energy when there is none.
Once again
If the body is in negative energy balance, how does insulin store excess fat? Especially understanding the concept of fat balance.
Except no mention of creating energy out of thin air.
Mainly is a word of contention, but once again, what happens with this triglyceride in the face of hypo or iso caloric situation?
Once again, what happens in the face of hypo or iso caloric situation? aka Fat balance.
Yes, absence of insulin results in the greatest fat loss state ever. Its called death.
Unless fat balance is increased by consumption of fat. Or are you trying to make the claim that fat cannot store in the face of lowered insulin. If so, may i laugh heartily now?
Which it does, unless you eat fat. becasue as we all know, in the face of incomming fatty acids (FFA and especially chylomicrons from the digestion of food lipids) stimulates the release of ASP, which increases reesterification of fatty acid in the adipocyte, decreases HSL activity, increases FAS activity, LPL and onwards.
hahahahahhahaha hahahahahhahahaha ahh hah haha ha haha
Somebody needs to step into the 1990's
Could you provide some peer reviewed evidence base for this. Totally blocked? oh dear, I know that text books love to provide unsubstantiated stuff, but that is excellent.
Well the body has to use something for energy, fatty acids to ketones, ketones for energy. Protein oxidised for energy or converted back through to glucose. Provide the body enough fatty acids(yaay food) the body doesnt have to utilize its endogenous stores of fat. Magic.
And only for the brain? What year is this 1975?
In the absence of insulin you die. Diabetes can be a bitch like that.
congrats on the Biochem 101 knowledge. What happens in the face of excess (aka hyper caloric) fat intake?
And? Of course fat oxidation raises. Fat balance, or the net flux in and out of the adipocyte may not change, because it depends on reducing uptake of fatty acid by the adipocyte and icnreasing output (and ultimately utilization of said fatty acid).
But of course insulin causes fat storage and nothing else. Ask yourself this, what effect does fasting levels of insulin have on fat metabolism, or the slightly raised level of insulin achieved by consuming a diet with higher levels of protein that is typical of the low cabrohydrate diet.
Iii
Lady.
In the chance where I need clarification on a concept, I have full faith in the contacts I have. You sure as shit would never be one of them, no offense.
This list of "references" has done nothing to support your claim except prove that you can read and copy words from a text.
Lady.
In the chance where I need clarification on a concept, I have full faith in the contacts I have. You sure as shit would never be one of them, no offense.
This list of "references" has done nothing to support your claim except prove that you can read and copy words from a text.
My god.
Nobody is contesting the notion that a caloric deficit slows metabolism!
How do you propose one loses weight without a caloric deficit though?
Darth Pooh
New member
Hey Steve,
Feel better?
I can't believe you gave her the time of day like that. It's obvious what she is here for and caloric intake is the most beneficial method as SEVERAL of us have proved. I am so glad she thinks I am going to gain my weight instantly back... because I haven't learned a damn thing after a year of eating. I need this lady to come in and reteach me, these 80lbs I've lost aren't enough of a motivator... she needs to show me the way...
I knew you'd eventually get to see this and have a "roid rage"...
-Keith
Feel better?
I can't believe you gave her the time of day like that. It's obvious what she is here for and caloric intake is the most beneficial method as SEVERAL of us have proved. I am so glad she thinks I am going to gain my weight instantly back... because I haven't learned a damn thing after a year of eating. I need this lady to come in and reteach me, these 80lbs I've lost aren't enough of a motivator... she needs to show me the way...
I knew you'd eventually get to see this and have a "roid rage"...
-Keith