Sport How NOT to gain muscle?

Sport Fitness
mreik said:
Remain sedentary (keeping all anabolic hormones low) and do whatever you can to keep cortisol up(and other catabolic hormones high).. Little sleep, high stress, etc.
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Ahhhh, thank you.

Not sleeping is a good one! In my experience, it's possible to remain mostly functional for a couple months or more on an hour or two a night. Lots and lots of caffeine, perhaps? Uncomfortable sleeping surface and/or environ? Hmm. Find someone to fight with constantly? Short naps with timers set..

Stress, too. Come to think, that'd make a fun, 'Top 5...' topic, too. Somebody esplain to me how to stress good. XD

It's the not doing anything part that's a pain, though I suppose not for most people. Guess I should've added something about 'for "athletes"', maybe, but that'd be ridiculous. More so, I mean. :rofl:

Thoughts on doing lots of very low intensity exercise? Pace back and forth all day at a very comfortable pace (let's say, never breaking a sweat) while reading, maybe? Caloric deficit > anabolic gains in terms of fat loss: muscle gain ratio, or no? I would say yes.

How to maintain strength without actually encouraging any adaptation.. I suppose that would be move the same weight every session, and only once a week?
 
seven point six four
 
train hard to deplete glycogen stores (both muscle and liver) the body will make glucose from ammino acids to maintain bloodsugar levels to prevent going hypoglycemic.
Of course, you don't fill up on carbs post workout or during workout.
 
Karky said:
Of course, you don't fill up on carbs post workout or during workout.
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Currently debating this (it's pretty much the major one left).

So far I'm thinking the thing to do (for me, specifically, not generally, and this is what I'll try today) is decrease PWO to just the half serving after. Keeping in mind that I will be expending more than 2000 calories on an empty tank at other times of the day, but perhaps not at a rate high enough to sap all of my glycogen, allowing for reasonably decent strength training sessions and the recovery boost while still maintaining a huge (> 3500 calorie per day) deficit.

Generally speaking, though, you're right, dropping the PWO stuff would make a big difference. I've almost always had it, and it seems to work exceptionally well for me (consuming the majority of my carbs directly before, during or after strength training) in terms of muscle retention/gain.. which is of course the enemy here, theoretically. :)
 
Karky said:
Focus, are you trying to lose muscle mass?
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Not really. Sitting at ~170 lbs LBM currently, I am now going out of my way to avoid acquiring any more (while at least doubling absolute strength over the next year), until after the Ironman. For myself I have what I estimate to be a very good idea what I need to do (and am currently doing it).

This post is intended mostly as a talking point that it would appear no one else finds interesting enough to take far beyond the obvious. ^_^
 
so you don't want to gain more muscle? might I ask why.

Anyways, taking in carbs post workout is a good way to replenish glycogen stores. If you want to train for strength, you'll want your glycogen stores full for the next workout!

I'd just keep calories close to maintenance, that way you should gain too much muscle.
 
Karky said:
so you don't want to gain more muscle? might I ask why.
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'Cause I'm not in it for cosmetics, beyond getting rid of excess weight in the form of body fat. Also, I'm training for an 8 hour endurance event, for which I will require an optimal power:mass ratio. From what I can tell this is not possible at body weights outside of a fairly specific range, for persons of my height.

Karky said:
Anyways, taking in carbs post workout is a good way to replenish glycogen stores. If you want to train for strength, you'll want your glycogen stores full for the next workout!
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Yeah, I'm aware, hence my refusal to ditch PWO entirely. Just gonna go halfsies on it and hope my body doesn't do it's "ridiculously efficient when necessary" thing it likes to do.

Karky said:
I'd just keep calories close to maintenance, that way you should gain too much muscle.
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Tried that and gained more muscle than I lost fat! And in a surplus, I gained even more muscle and lost somewhat less fat. Remember, in terms of training age, I am a super beginner. 5 months of consistent strength training under my belt. In my whole life. 2 and 3, separated by a year break in between. So I'm quite certain I'm still in the grace period (wrt being able to gain significant amounts of muscle and lose significant amounts of fat at the same time - photos and skinfold testing confirm this).

Only thing left to try is a massive deficit with the addition of amino debt. Will report back with the results of this over the next two months.

My hope is that over this period I'll drop down below 10% body fat, and then be able to sit at maintenance or even a slight deficit and not pack on much mass.
 
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so you gained weight on a calorie deficit diet? Well, if anyone could refuse to be affected by the law of thermodynamics, it would be you :p
 
Trust me focus, you'll want any anabolic trick you can get your hands on. The last thing you want is to not take PWO or get inadequate rest etc. If you were still 'gaining' while in a caloric deficit, guess what, you weren't in deficit. Go lower.
 
Karky said:
so you gained weight on a calorie deficit diet? Well, if anyone could refuse to be affected by the law of thermodynamics, it would be you :p
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Haha, thanks. I am pretty super arrogant and delusional! I even talk sort of like Keanu Reeves. :rofl:

mreik said:
Trust me focus, you'll want any anabolic trick you can get your hands on. The last thing you want is to not take PWO or get inadequate rest etc. If you were still 'gaining' while in a caloric deficit, guess what, you weren't in deficit. Go lower.
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I was mostly kidding about the sleep, haha. I couldn't last night (as per my journal entry) 'cause I had a sick nasty high from all the running and biking, but generally take every opportunity for some shut-eye I can get.

And you are, as usual, right, or so the knowledge would dictate. I find it hard to fathom that I was at maintenance or surplus at 1650 calories/day on the V Diet (while theoretically expending over 4000/day, but the body comp doesn't lie... once again, theoretically. =P I've been pretty sloppy the last few weeks, averaging out at just under supposed maintenance, and will have the delta body composition info for that period soon, which should sharpen the picture a bit.

Right now I'm figuring keep everything the same, except for dropping Aspirin from my stack and supplementing potassium even harder (apparently I leak the stuff like mad, even factoring in the mechanics of the drugs I'm taking). I hate the taste of potassium salt so much... Anyway, that and dropping calories almost to the point of a muscle-sparing fast. As before, results should be interesting. Also I will have pics for anyone who'd like a gander, at the end of October. August-present, in monthly intervals.
 
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IM not sure what happened through out this postings???
subject: loose fat, don't gain muscle.
solution: heathy eating, caloric deficit, cardio / other exercise
notes: Q: you wish to keep a high protein diet ,A: that will be just fine, it will keep the muscle you gain
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subject #2 off topic
subject: how do i loose muscle?
solution: create a catabolic enviornment within the body, if your target is legs, focuse exertion on upper body:: obtain options: A: sedentary, cortisal release, quick energy requirements lack of nutrients (this being in an immidiate fashion)
-- no other notes or solutions are viable to my reconing -- if you disagree/ disapprove then tough nuggets, this is the bodys fuctions so choose and sacrifice then be happy.
 
phaledax said:
notes: Q: you wish to keep a high protein diet ,A: that will be just fine, it will keep the muscle you gain
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Yeah, but I would clarify that "high" isn't a good idea, really, if the goal is to actively avoid gaining muscle. Extra aminos = body has more than it requires to simply maintain current tissues, starts to get ideas.. like synthesizing more tissue as an adaptation to alleviate stress.

Finding the exact amount you require to stay where you are and not lose any, that's ideal world stuff, sure, but we are speaking of ideals.

phaledax said:
subject: how do i loose muscle?
solution: create a catabolic enviornment within the body, if your target is legs, focuse exertion on upper body:: obtain options: A: sedentary, cortisal release, quick energy requirements lack of nutrients (this being in an immidiate fashion)
-- no other notes or solutions are viable to my reconing -- if you disagree/ disapprove then tough nuggets, this is the bodys fuctions so choose and sacrifice then be happy.
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Yep, mostly. Once again using myself as an example, since everyone seems intent on this, target is total body, and sedentary is not an option, so, that leaves provoking cortisol through increasing psychological stress, intentionally mucking up meal timing, and massive caloric deficits. My hope, however, is that the first 2 won't ever become necessary. Sort of counterproductive, health-wise.

But you are wrong about no other options being available. If this were the case, how do you think endurance runners end up looking skeletonish like they do?

Hint: it's not because they sit in bed all day avoiding any exertion, starve themselves and fight with their nurse.
 
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phaledax said:
is this whole thing a question? or just a statement? with that ill say again "catabolic enviornment"
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The rhetorical kind, yeah. I'm simply saying that other than the fact that the methods you just stated (admittedly to your own reckoning) are the only ones offered here that might contribute to this end (creating a catabolic environment), are not. That's all.

If you were not trying to present them as a package, well, then it's just the case that your punctuation needs some serious work. The identification of words (spelling) isn't very hard to infer, but their arrangement (grammar), can make a world of difference with regard to intended and expressed meaning.
 
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point taken... but whatever, i post by memory of any subject from work, so i got like 3-5min at a time maby. not sure what you want at this point.
 
Just looking for some outside-of-the-box ideas and discussion wrt "doing it right" nutritionally and gaining strength while simultaneously avoiding increasing muscle size.

And yes, I do realize the question is silly. :)
 
have you looked possibly into undulated progression?? It's not so much for the nutritional aspect. I've been doing a lot of reading on this type of progression (compared to linear progression).

Can be done in a variety of ways, and can get pretty complex. One of the most basic ways to look at this idea is to look at weekly training schedules. Say you have a 3 day/week program. Monday, you're adhering to a hypertrophy cycle (60-75% RM, 3-5sets of 8-12 reps). Wednesday, you stick to a Strength cycle (75-90% RM, 4-6 sets of 3-6 reps). Friday is power day (90+% RM, 3-5 sets of 1-3 reps).

You can also switch up the days. Monday for power, wednesday for hypertrophy, friday for strength etc etc etc. This is probably the most basic way to look at undulated training in terms of being recreationally active and looking to gain strength without hurting size.

just an idea, maybe not the right one you're looking for.
 
Ah, undulating periodization, yeah? Lots of exciting information out implying it may well be the best in terms of consistent progression.

But, how do you figure this will emphasize myofibrillar over sarcoplasmic hypertrophy? Or, and this is the impression I got, are you saying that it won't necessarily but just throwing it out there for consideration? ^_^
 
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