You make it sound like you don't have a problem with drugs at all, then later you agree to having a problem with drug misuse. You of all people should know how important it is to be specific when you start a discussion like this. How am I supposed to know that drug misuse is an obvious exception? Some people think that drug misuse is only the misuser's business, and no one elses, and they have no problem with it. For all I knew after reading your first post, that could have been your stance.
For those who have a problem with "drugs"...
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You make it sound like you don't have a problem with drugs at all, then later you agree to having a problem with drug misuse. You of all people should know how important it is to be specific when you start a discussion like this. How am I supposed to know that drug misuse is an obvious exception? Some people think that drug misuse is only the misuser's business, and no one elses, and they have no problem with it. For all I knew after reading your first post, that could have been your stance.
You are confused. There's no contradiction in saying that I agree that "doing it wrong" is.. wrong (XD) and also saying that "drugs" or any subset thereof are not objectively bad. The major fallacy here would be false dichotomy, but I won't bore you with the others because I need to go interrogate an asian gentleman about the "tangerine" chicken his establishment serves.
(And this is also in response to fitlife's question) My point, and iirc I already made it, is merely that if you want to claim that being "pure" is your reason for not utilizing certain "drugs", you are either a forager living without shelter, or being irrational. I put the word "drug" in quotes because the delineation of what does or does not constitute a "drug" is roughly as vague as that of what does or does not constitute "love" - which some people also consider a drug.
I realize that in a lot of cases, people don't "require" sound reasoning but, I'm always curious.
My view on drugs, is another matter. I don't believe in the concept. (what is a "drug")
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This is all a bit over my head I am afraid. You know the whole big words to try and confuse the opposition thing.
I think my thinking is pretty close to thos FF and Kutusov because we have been to the edge looked over and seen what is below.
IMO, now I am not saying this is right or not. You cannot pass judgment on those who take drugs or have taken drugs until you too have been at the stage where you cant pick up a cup because you are shaking so much but yet you can still load a baggie the size of your thumb nail without a tremmor.
I think my thinking is pretty close to thos FF and Kutusov because we have been to the edge looked over and seen what is below.
IMO, now I am not saying this is right or not. You cannot pass judgment on those who take drugs or have taken drugs until you too have been at the stage where you cant pick up a cup because you are shaking so much but yet you can still load a baggie the size of your thumb nail without a tremmor.
My dad was an alcoholic and a chain smoker. I also believe he was bipolar ... or perhaps that was just the alcohol.
The thought of him still disgusts me and he's been dead for quite sometime. He drank and smoked himself to his grave and caused a lot of pain and heartache in too many people's lives. He lived his entire life in complete denial about his addictions.
If my dad had the "addiction gene", I probably I have the propensity to become an addict, too, so if I'm going to be addicted to something, I'd rather it was working out than being addicted to a substance. I would hate to think that a chemical compound was the only reason I had to get out of bed in the morning ...
There are too many people who get caught in the addiction trap and they don't know how to get out. I always think to myself if they had never said "yes" the first time, they wouldn't know how bad their lives would get by becoming addicted. That's a tragedy. And getting clean again is much harder than saying "no" would have been in the first place.
Eventually, you don't give a rat's ass about what anybody thinks, and you just keep saying "no". Everybody has a comment for the person who wants their body to be clean. I've heard them all. I have zero respect for people who try to build themselves up while tearing me down. They are nothing more than bugs on my windshield.
The thought of him still disgusts me and he's been dead for quite sometime. He drank and smoked himself to his grave and caused a lot of pain and heartache in too many people's lives. He lived his entire life in complete denial about his addictions.
If my dad had the "addiction gene", I probably I have the propensity to become an addict, too, so if I'm going to be addicted to something, I'd rather it was working out than being addicted to a substance. I would hate to think that a chemical compound was the only reason I had to get out of bed in the morning ...
There are too many people who get caught in the addiction trap and they don't know how to get out. I always think to myself if they had never said "yes" the first time, they wouldn't know how bad their lives would get by becoming addicted. That's a tragedy. And getting clean again is much harder than saying "no" would have been in the first place.
Eventually, you don't give a rat's ass about what anybody thinks, and you just keep saying "no". Everybody has a comment for the person who wants their body to be clean. I've heard them all. I have zero respect for people who try to build themselves up while tearing me down. They are nothing more than bugs on my windshield.
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That was my question and you didn't answer there focus, your view on drugs. What do you mean you don't believe in the concept?
Guys i think focus here is talking about things that we use in sports....steroids, vitamins, carbofuels, creatine etc, and how vague the word "drug" is in terms of physical performance and what constitutes such a label. Is caffeine a drug? Is gatorade a drug? At least that's what i hope he's talking about
Yes, that's pretty much the answer that we need. In my previous post I assumed we were talking about recreational drugs but this is the supplement sub-forum, so...
Please be more specific Focus... what drugs are you talking about? Every single xenobiotic substance? Psychotropics? Protein shakes?...
Please be more specific Focus... what drugs are you talking about? Every single xenobiotic substance? Psychotropics? Protein shakes?...
Guys i think focus here is talking about things that we use in sports....steroids, vitamins, carbofuels, creatine etc, and how vague the word "drug" is in terms of physical performance and what constitutes such a label. Is caffeine a drug? Is gatorade a drug? At least that's what i hope he's talking about
Yeah, now that I actually think about, chances are, you're 100% correct.
This thread is in supplements, so really my post was totally retarded
Well the problem is the post is only clear to one person, yet we are told, "What is not clear? Its all there in the OP."
You are confused. There's no contradiction in saying that I agree that "doing it wrong" is.. wrong (XD) and also saying that "drugs" or any subset thereof are not objectively bad. The major fallacy here would be false dichotomy, but I won't bore you with the others because I need to go interrogate an asian gentleman about the "tangerine" chicken his establishment serves.
(And this is also in response to fitlife's question) My point, and iirc I already made it, is merely that if you want to claim that being "pure" is your reason for not utilizing certain "drugs", you are either a forager living without shelter, or being irrational. I put the word "drug" in quotes because the delineation of what does or does not constitute a "drug" is roughly as vague as that of what does or does not constitute "love" - which some people also consider a drug.
I realize that in a lot of cases, people don't "require" sound reasoning but, I'm always curious.
My view on drugs, is another matter. I don't believe in the concept. (what is a "drug")
It really doesn't matter how you try to twitch yourself out of this. You didn't make your position clear in your first post.
you did not say the part in bold in your first post. You said, in your title:
you did not specify which problem, it makes it seem as though it is any problem at all. And you say you will show them that the argument they present is not a logical one. But then you agree with drug misuse is bad. A problem I have with drugs is drugmisuse, pretty much the only problem. And from your first post it could seem as if you did not have a problem with drugs at all (although unlikely, as most people have a problem with misuse, but this is an internet forum, you can never know), be it misuse, or anything else.
I cannot know from your first post that, as pointed out by others, it seems your argument is how vauge the word "drug" is (putting drugs in quotes does serve as a hint, but "drugs" can still mean all drugs)
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I've been re-reading this posts and remembering others from other threads. It's very interesting to me to find out that so many people into fitness and body improvement seams to use this as a way to fight personal demons and maintain discipline over their own selves, in a reactive way rather than a shallow mimeting of a social trend ideal. I think that's why we endure and disregard the pain and hard work of training because, on the big picture, that's just a small detail.
Try the Chillout log.
Will do. Never actually been there, it's too big for a careful read. But now I'm curious... thx Karky!
Welp, okay. Let's say for the purposes of an expedient discussion that the definition of a drug is something along the lines of, 'A pure chemical substance whose structure is known and is formulated, by mixing it with other materials, into a preparation suitable for administration.'
This definition would apply to pretty much anything a human being ingests. This is a problem because many people are then able to draw the line between drug and non-drug wherever they want in order to justify irrational biases, when in reality there is no real line, other than the notion of "xenobiotic", which I also personally don't believe in. Think about it: in the above usage, air is a drug. If you have a problem with "drugs", why do you breathe? Use of the "drug" air is the #1 killer of human beings, everywhere. Is air bad?
In short, option A of quote #2.
I accept your premise but reject your conclusion! Teehee. XD But seriously, repeating a thing does not make it true.
Which is indeed the case. I am saying that anyone who has any problem at all with "drugs" themselves, holds a logically untenable belief. I did not misrepresent or fail to clearly state my position. You are making invalid assumptions rooted in what I think is probably a poor understanding of sentential logic.
Incorrect. I agreed with the notion that misuse is dumb (but not of drugs specifically, merely of drugs in a specific context - hence, misuse alone). And mostly for the opportunity to make what I thought was a very clever jibe at those of a sensate persuasion. I do not however "have a problem with" it. Dumb != wrong != 'having a problem with'.
You really should read more carefully if you're going to try to tell me what I did or did not say, guys.
But, even were what you say the case, I can and would argue the point. It's just that we would have to go all the way back to what is "bad". Which requires starting at "Exists exists..." Do you agree that existence exists? :sport:
Can and does. Notice how femme fatale i_love pointed out that this thread is in the "supplement" section - another classification that has nearly zero functional meaning.
I like you. You may stay!
Let me add something I think you'll enjoy:
Oscar Wilde said:
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Ah, Focus is back in University and practicing his philosophical arguments
How cute! But you're wrong. And I can prove it. Albeit tautologically speaking
bb, I still luv ya!
How cute! But you're wrong. And I can prove it. Albeit tautologically speaking
bb, I still luv ya!