One of the best sentiments I have heard on this forum, you hit the nail right on the head.
Thanks NBS, glad you agree......
Death Row
- Thread starter Woodt
- Start date
Thanks NBS, glad you agree......
No, if someone is on death row, the only one's doing any investigating are the one's who are trying to get off on a "technical" error.
I believe there is a line a person crosses when they decide to kill someone. Most of those people had to "work up" to that point. A lot of those people committed previous crimes, either did or didn't get caught, but obviously didn't learn from it.
People who choose to kill lost any regard for human life.
Yes, there will be exceptions.
However, we let more criminals roam because of a broke justice system, than we have innocent people being wrongly imprisoned.
Have none of you watched Shawshank?!? He was innocent damn you!!!
Insanity aside for one second, I think it's only right for someone to get the death penalty if there's 0% chance the guy is innocent. In those cases the guy needs to be executed right there and then, he may well have committed a terrible act but that's no reason for us to lower ourselves to that level as well. If we aren't capable of showing compassion while we wield this power then it's a power we shouldn't have.
Waiting for death is a punishment too far, if they're going to be killed we need to show mercy and make it immediate
Insanity aside for one second, I think it's only right for someone to get the death penalty if there's 0% chance the guy is innocent. In those cases the guy needs to be executed right there and then, he may well have committed a terrible act but that's no reason for us to lower ourselves to that level as well. If we aren't capable of showing compassion while we wield this power then it's a power we shouldn't have.
Waiting for death is a punishment too far, if they're going to be killed we need to show mercy and make it immediate
Ben Franklin, who spoke eloquently for the (US) Founding Fathers IMHO, said "It was far better to let many guilty man go free than to wrongly convict one innocent man." I learned this line from a judge when I was the jury foreman for a case against a man charged with aggravated assault.
Now, think how many on death row have been exonerated (some because of lack of evidence, some because they were clearly not the culprits). Had justice been "swift" as so many propose, many innocent men and women would have been wrongfully executed.
Also, for those who say, "What if your daughter/son/wife/mother had been the victim of one of these crimes"? True, I cannot fathom that. But, "What if your daughter/son/wife/mother had been wrongfully charged with a capital crime?"
I am not opposed to the death sentence, per se, as there are those for which it is clearly appropriate (Timothy McVeigh, Adolph Eichmann, the local street thug who home invades an 80yo couple, rapes the woman and kills her in front of the husband) but the death sentence is to be used judiciously until the the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, which could a decade or two. This extended time is the least we can pay to be certain that no innocent person is wrongfully executed and fulfill the ideals of the Founding Fathers and the constitution (and Bill of Rights) that they dreamed up.
Time to get off this soapbox and get to the gym...
They don't kill hundreds of people. Our execution system isn't that violent. I think in Virginia, we executed about 80 people last year, which is the second highest besides Texas doing nearly 500 people.
In any case, I think a lot of people miss the point of exactly what death penalty is. It isn't a form of "revenge." Justice was invented as a mean for people who no longer contribute to society. In short, justice is a way to correct those who are no value to society. Prison time is given to those individuals who can be corrected. People who can provide back to society, but just needs to be punished for something they done. Whether it is a day or a life time behind bars, those who are placed in prison are considered, "Okay, but not too good." Death penalty is given to those who can no longer provide good to society. They did something that cannot be corrected nor can the be productive members of society. Murderers, rapists, etc are all crimes that are not considered productive in society since you blocked the ability of your victims to be productive members of society. Death is a ticket back to the creator; let the creator be the judge of you and then determine whether you can be salvaged or not, man can no longer take care of this person on earth. According to the Christian bible, as well as other religions, many people argue that you cannot judge man nor can you kill another man. I think these people are full of baloney and not fully understanding the Bible. Indeed, the bible states do not kill... these are the for individuals, not of the society-level. On the individual scale, it is wrong to kill or pass judgment to another person. However, on the society-scale/community scale, you are viewed differently. The Bible speaks of being productive members of your society. If you can no longer be a productive member, then you can no longer be part of that community.
Sorry for sound weird, but that's the way I see death penalty. I don't think of it as a "revenge."
In any case, I think a lot of people miss the point of exactly what death penalty is. It isn't a form of "revenge." Justice was invented as a mean for people who no longer contribute to society. In short, justice is a way to correct those who are no value to society. Prison time is given to those individuals who can be corrected. People who can provide back to society, but just needs to be punished for something they done. Whether it is a day or a life time behind bars, those who are placed in prison are considered, "Okay, but not too good." Death penalty is given to those who can no longer provide good to society. They did something that cannot be corrected nor can the be productive members of society. Murderers, rapists, etc are all crimes that are not considered productive in society since you blocked the ability of your victims to be productive members of society. Death is a ticket back to the creator; let the creator be the judge of you and then determine whether you can be salvaged or not, man can no longer take care of this person on earth. According to the Christian bible, as well as other religions, many people argue that you cannot judge man nor can you kill another man. I think these people are full of baloney and not fully understanding the Bible. Indeed, the bible states do not kill... these are the for individuals, not of the society-level. On the individual scale, it is wrong to kill or pass judgment to another person. However, on the society-scale/community scale, you are viewed differently. The Bible speaks of being productive members of your society. If you can no longer be a productive member, then you can no longer be part of that community.
Sorry for sound weird, but that's the way I see death penalty. I don't think of it as a "revenge."
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yes, and it is the typical prisoner, not the death row inmates, that really fall into that category.
doesn't mean they weren't guilty...
examples: Do you think O.J. was innocent????
What about Singleton? Remember him?
He got 14 years and was PAROLED after he raped and cut off Mary Vincents arms while she fought of his attack and was left for dead....only to be released to kill again before FINALLY receiving the death penalty where he made Mary Vincents life hell for years until he died from cancer (when it should have been the electric chair).
Thats the broken system I'm talking about.
True, the pendulum swings both ways.
Have you ever seen the show "The First 48hrs"? It's very insightful.....
agreed.
Again, Death row is for heinous crimes, I have a difficult time believing that the people there do not have a history of criminal activity under their belts that got them there.
here's your box back
Problem? Nope not at all. Is it relevant to the topic? Nope not all.
New Jersey is working to abolish the death penalty within the state. It will be the first to do so, though others may not actually use it.
What, so if you are paralyzed from the head down and thus a none productive member of society, you should no longer be part of it?
What happened to treating all as equals?
I think you should have the choice. But not in the sense of what you're saying. I think he means criminal anyways.
WOODT:
Christ, the Savior of the Christian religion, was talking to hypocrits(Jewish pharisees at the time) when he told them
"The law of Moses says, 'If a man gouges out another's eye, he must pay with his own eye. If a tooth gets knocked out, konck out the tooth of the one who did it'. But I say: Do not continue in violence! If you are slaped on one cheek, turn the other too. If you are ordered to court, and your shirt is taken from you, give your coat too. 42 Give to those who ask, and don't turn away from those who want to borrow.
43There is a saying 'Love your friends and hate your enemies' But i say: Love your enemies!Pray for those who persecute you!"
Mathew5:38-44
the new covenant we are living in is of peace and love :]]] not revenge and cruelty
Christ, the Savior of the Christian religion, was talking to hypocrits(Jewish pharisees at the time) when he told them
"The law of Moses says, 'If a man gouges out another's eye, he must pay with his own eye. If a tooth gets knocked out, konck out the tooth of the one who did it'. But I say: Do not continue in violence! If you are slaped on one cheek, turn the other too. If you are ordered to court, and your shirt is taken from you, give your coat too. 42 Give to those who ask, and don't turn away from those who want to borrow.
43There is a saying 'Love your friends and hate your enemies' But i say: Love your enemies!Pray for those who persecute you!"
Mathew5:38-44
the new covenant we are living in is of peace and love :]]] not revenge and cruelty
While the NT is of a far more loving/peaceful nature of the OT, I cannot understand how God's concept of 'revenge' could change so dramatically between Moses and Jesus.
If Moses was really a messenger of God, then surely God is sending mixed messages?
Maybe it was different generations of texting?
Before the New Covenant(that is, before Jesus bore our sins on the cross), there was a law given to Moses from God.
This law revealed how sinful man really was, and there was a chastisement for disobeying the laws....a high priest could offer animal sacrifices to God as a payment for sins...there were many rules and regulations in addition to this.
When Jesus came to earth, he was God contained in a human body. He underwent everything a human being experianced(birth,learning,rejection ect). He started his ministry at around 30 years old and was eventually crucified, according to God's will, after his ~2 year ministry by the people who rejected his teachings at the time.
And supernaturally, Christ rose fromt he dead on the third day, seated at the right hand of his Father.
By living the perfect life, Jesus fulfilled the law of Moses completely.
Instead of the blood of a lamb or a cow being shed to atone for the sins of all the people of the world, the blood of the Son of God was the atoning sacrifice for everyone and anyone who repents and believes in our Savior Jesus Christ.
He who knew no sin became sin for us, that we may be in fellowship with Him. His love covered a multitude of sins.
So now since we are living in the New Covenant, we are made rightous in God's sight according to His grace and His sacrifice already made for us.
Since we are already forgiven, and the law was already fullfilled by Christ, we are no longer under the penalty of the old covenant.
This is the sacrifice God made for us to have relationship with Him. He commended His love towards us, that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
That is the difference between old and new testaments. there is more to it than that, but it would take a while to explain.
And most of those violence and cruelty findings in the NT are based on metaphors related to afterlife(heaven or hell).
Jesus already provided the sacrifice required for our sins to be washed away so that we may live forever in relation with God in heaven by his death on the cross. The gift is given, we just have to repent and accept life.
If anyone chooses not to believe, or not to repent, that is their descision and they will reap the fruits thereof.
Christ did his part already...he did the hard part. we just have to repent from our sinful life and be born again in Christ.
hope that clears some things u\p
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No one wants to be an executioner, it's just that some people don't have a choice - Stay in school kids.