BSL's BS-Lounge, please come again!

tribal said:
Pardon me if I'm a lil confused BSL but :-
- are you bulking, cutting or what?
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Uhhh....good question. I don't really catagorize into those terms. I do weight-training and lots of cardio, along with a diet aimed at losing weight. I'm not out to necessarily gain muscle, I do weight-training so my body won't drop the lean-muscle while it experiences a calorie deficit and seeks to reduce caloric needs. Many dieters lose muscle and become emaciated while dieting (Atkins, etc)...I want to maintain muscle and maybe build a bit to look good. But by-in-large I'm out to look better and be healthy. I jokingly say, I'd like to get to the point where I could ask 25 woman in a row if I needed to lose any weight and each one would say "heck no, you've got a great body and when I need to satisfy myself I visualize you!"....is that too much to ask for?? ;)


tribal said:
- what is your goal as if your starting body fat was 11.5% and you have lost body fat % but gained weight. Do you have stats for your biceps/waist before and after this gain/loss? Do you now have a six-pack?
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I do not have a six-pack, but I do have definition on the right & left sides of my abs (see pics on earlier pages)...I also have a nice vertical line dropping down the center at this point...it's getting tighter. As explained in the thread in the Weight Loss section, the body-fat calipers measured the BF% in the areas where they were applied. I'm going to make an appt. to get a DEXA scan...at least from here we can monitor progress.

tribal said:
- do you have a scientific log of the reps and actual weight-lifting you are doing? Your reply to phate above suggests otherwise. It would be good to see actual gains in lifts as well as to see which compounds you are doing.
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No, I don't keep a log, I just know which settings or weights I generally use. Some days I feel stronge then others but again, my emphasis is on maintaining my muscle not so much building....so I'm not focused on tracking strength or weight increases.

tribal said:
- do you have a fit-day or similar log of your food intake as those deficits sound unusual?.
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No Fit-day, not sure what that is. I would often keep a log of what I ate, but it's very tedious and annoying. I generally know the calories of 70% of what I eat from reading labels. I generally have small snacks throughout the day that range from 120-250 calories and then at dinner I keep to protein, vege's and light portions of carbs. I go out to eat about every other day but I choose salads and light foods and do the dresssing on the side, no mayo, nothing fried, etc.

My goal is pretty simple...wen I wear a bathing suit I want there to be no "muffin'ing" just above the waist and I want some good solid definition on the chest. I don't need a hard-defined 6-pack, but some good outlining. Basically, I want to be proud to when I take off my shirt...or better put; not embarrassed.

Am I getting there? Yes....but my progress is painfully slow and the face of rising weight on the scale, it's rather frustrating...
 
It sounds to me like you're trying to fight your body type. If you are designed to be a ripped bad ass 240 then roll with it.
 
tjl said:
This paragraph reads like it came from a woman who has bought into the (common among women) "losing weight is the only thing that matters" mentality.
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I hear everyone....it's about body-fat% far more then a number on the scale. When I really think about it, I sense I have a great deal of psychological issues with having all my life been "fat" all my life...being teased, embarrassed, always cast into the category of being "heavy". Even though I look much different today, I still (in my mind) have the sense that I'm heavy and just sorta on my way to getting where I want to go.

I work my ass off each week, nobody sweats more or works harder in the spin-classes, and nobody follows it up with swimming a mile or two afterwards. I push weights, work with a trainer and really hold-back on eating as much as I'd like. This is like a broken record; I've been bitching about this since registering on this forum. I suppose I'm just convinced (based on what I'm told) that sooner or later my body will give-in and give-up the weight. Come on guys: 5' 8" and 240 pounds....that's heavy no matter how you slice it. How many guys come on here that are 6' and they're about 185 and talking about losing weight???

If we really want to attribute my gains to muscle (which the calipers substantiate since the fat is going away)....then there must come a point where I'll stop gaining muscle and finally the scale will drop. I think that's what I keep looking for....I feel leaner, I look leaner so I get on that scale expecting to finally see a drop...and I get a gain. It's frustrating no matter how you cut it.

I suppose if I really wanted to see some scale-weight droppage, I'd just have to scale way back on the weights (doing just enough to maintain the muscle), stick with Low/Med intensity cardio and really cut calories.

On another note, I'm still not terribly happy with the way I look. I'm getting leaner, but I'm stilla chunky bastard, I'm in a size 38-40 waist and when I see reflections of myself, I still look like a husky/heavy guy. A friend of mine recently told me I look like a Hen...he said my legs are all cut & strong from the riding, but my upper body is just BIG. I dunno, I just have an image that I'm not getting towards and I'm tired of seeing gains on the scale and then having to rationalize it's okay. Either you get it or you don't.
 
BikeSwimLaugh said:
I hear everyone....it's about body-fat% far more then a number on the scale. When I really think about it, I sense I have a great deal of psychological issues with having all my life been "fat" all my life...being teased, embarrassed, always cast into the category of being "heavy". Even though I look much different today, I still (in my mind) have the sense that I'm heavy and just sorta on my way to getting where I want to go. .
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Well, you said in the other thread that you think you're around 15% - 16% body fat.....mind you, only the DEXA test will tell you for sure.;)

And, given 15% body fat is a normal healthy body fat %, - objectively speaking - while you may be heavy in weight terms , you're anything but fat.

BikeSwimLaugh said:
I work my ass off each week, nobody sweats more or works harder in the spin-classes, and nobody follows it up with swimming a mile or two afterwards. I push weights, work with a trainer and really hold-back on eating as much as I'd like. This is like a broken record; I've been bitching about this since registering on this forum. I suppose I'm just convinced (based on what I'm told) that sooner or later my body will give-in and give-up the weight. Come on guys: 5' 8" and 240 pounds....that's heavy no matter how you slice it. How many guys come on here that are 6' and they're about 185 and talking about losing weight???
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Being 185 lbs. isn't relevant for you - you have a different body type.

As I said before, assuming you are in fact around 15% body fat at 240 lbs. , even if you slash your fat down to a very lean 10% body fat, that still puts you at 225 lbs.

Unless you intend on losing a lot of muscle mass along the way - which I doubt - anything close to 185 is a non starter for you IMO.

btw - what is your long term body fat % goal anyway ?

BikeSwimLaugh said:
If we really want to attribute my gains to muscle (which the calipers substantiate since the fat is going away)....then there must come a point where I'll stop gaining muscle and finally the scale will drop. I think that's what I keep looking for....I feel leaner, I look leaner so I get on that scale expecting to finally see a drop...and I get a gain. It's frustrating no matter how you cut it.

I suppose if I really wanted to see some scale-weight droppage, I'd just have to scale way back on the weights (doing just enough to maintain the muscle), stick with Low/Med intensity cardio and really cut calories
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.

It's ' frustrating ' cause you're focusing on the scale a bit too much - you're primary focus should be on body fat %.....not the scale readings.

Why not just get that DEXA test as of June 1 and then get it done again at Sept 1 and see how much fat you've lost ...and ignore your scale for awhile ?

BikeSwimLaugh said:
On another note, I'm still not terribly happy with the way I look. I'm getting leaner, but I'm stilla chunky bastard, I'm in a size 38-40 waist and when I see reflections of myself, I still look like a husky/heavy guy.
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But you're a 38-40 waist with a healthy body fat % of about 15% ....I'd worry more about the body fat % than waist measurements.

btw - how would you have to look to make yourself 100% ' O.K. ' with your looks ?

Because, I hate to break it to you.....more than likely.........you will always appear to be a husky/heavy guy even at 10% body fat ....i.e 5' 8" ...225 lbs.

Keep in mind, I'd suspect most ' average ' men at 5'8" and 15% body fat are probably closer to somewhere around 165 lbs. +/- ....you're at 5'8" & 240 lbs ....just chalk up the potential difference of 70+ lbs to genetics.

BikeSwimLaugh said:
A friend of mine recently told me I look like a Hen...he said my legs are all cut & strong from the riding, but my upper body is just BIG..
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It's called genetics.

BikeSwimLaugh said:
I dunno, I just have an image that I'm not getting towards and I'm tired of seeing gains on the scale and then having to rationalize it's okay. Either you get it or you don't.
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Perhaps this ' image ' in your mind of how you should look is completely unrealistic.......as in having ' unrealistic expectations '.

But I'll bite ...what is the ' image ' of yourself that you think you should look like ?

And just so the rest of us know , exactly what is your goal in terms of body measurements as it pertains to this ' image ' ....i.e body fat %, waist size, weight ?
 
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BikeSwimLaugh said:
say, I'd like to get to the point where I could ask 25 woman in a row if I needed to lose any weight and each one would say "heck no, you've got a great body and when I need to satisfy myself I visualize you!"....is that too much to ask for?? ;)
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OK, I guess I'll take one for the team.
Hi Sexy, will you dress up as a fire fighter for me?:p:rofl:

BTW, are you trying to impress other people (read chicks) or yourself?

Is everything about cutting calories and losing weight or do you actually enjoy it, because you are working towards a goal (you said you would like to participate in a tri)?
 
hey man, I read through your thread in the weight loss section, and haven't read anything here... but I just want to say congrats on your work whether you are proud of it or not. I know you really care about that number on the scale, and one thing that you mentioned was that when people ask you about how much you lost you can't say you lost anything. I say, who gives a f**k what other people think. It may be annoying to have to explain this whole gain muscle lose fat, but seriously... let them bask in their ignorance. You know whats going on, you know what you have done, and its something to be proud of. This may have been said, or it may have nothing to do with whats been said, but I wanted to add my two cents.
 
Hey BSL,
Just checking in. I have been insanely busy at work and slacking off the last 4 weeks or so. Getting back on track again and starting NROL with a buddy of mine. Glad to see your keeping up the hard work man. Hope things are well.
 
Hey guys,

Yeah...it's been a long time since I posted in my journal. Part of it was that I got a bit depressed with yet another classic bout of feeling like I was spinning my wheels and getting nowhere, and another part was just plain being tired of posting my food/activities every darn day....it's tiresome and gets boring after a while, especially when my business is busy and days are long on the phone.

Okay...things are well. I've managed to lose some weight on the scale and drop more body-fat%....so it's all good. More clothes are fitting loose and I actually bought some shorts that are size Medium....BUT I bought them at Big Dog so that doesn't count! ;) :D

Fact of the matter is....Wrangell and my nutrionist were both right: I'm eating too much and didn't realize it. I wasn't piggying-out or anything, it's just that all those small snacks and weekend retreats add-up in ways you don't realize. It's like a gentle tide that slowly moves towards more and more calories and you just don't realize it. Moderation is a bitch!

To answer some questions:

My goal is to be happy with how I look. I'd like to see very little or no double-chin, some firmness in my chest where things are a bit loose (part of the looseness is due to fat loss....the fat is no longer underneath bulging outward, so I guess I have to hope my skin will shrink in....it should).

I know I'm getting there....but I have to adopt a realistic perception of what I can expect. I'm built wide & broad, more like a line-backer....I am not and never will be a marathon runner or a svelt model.

I think I'm about 12-18 pounds away from where I need to be. I want zero love-handles around me (at this point it's a slight bulge). The chin may be hereditary and some loose skin inevitable due to age and formerly being heavy...but I can and will do better.

A friend of mine and I are embarking on a hardcore regimen for reaching our goals. It's ON. It's not a competitive thing, it's a collaborative thing...and my nutritionist is in on it too. Journal every day and ATTACK the fat!

I'm scheduling a DEXA scan so we know for sure where I'm at. The body-fat calipers only tell you the body-fat% at the locations you apply the calipers. Water-dunk can't account for bone-density or hydration levels.....DEXA is the way to go. I'll post results when I get 'em.

Wrangell, Amp, Betty, JW...everyone, thanks for your support!
 
Tuesday 7/8

Oatmeal 160
Green Machine juice 170

35 minutes on the elliptical
1-hour workout with trainer -650 calories burned

Protein shake (half now, rest as I worked out) 280 calories

1-hour weight-training -425 calories burned
35 minutes more elliptical -300 calories burned

Jerry's Deli, curry-chicken salad with 2 tablespoons dressing
(4 ounces skinless chicken w/some raisins, almonds, coconuts) 600 calories?

1 square dark chocolate 60 calories
couple grabs organic trail mix 70 calories

very small salad (bit of cheese & oil)
3 stuffed shells, "low-fat"
1 serving eggplant parmesan, low-fat 380 calories?

2 wasa crackers & 80 cals of lean turkey 180

Calories IN: 1,900
Calories Burned: -1,375
Base metabolic -2,056 (less 3 hours while exercising, that's part of calories burned)

Total caloric intake today: -1,531 calories

Today my "needs" were 3,725 (base 2,350 + exercise 1,375)
For a 20% calorie deficit I should have eaten 2,980 calories (3,725 x .80)

But I took in only 1,720 calories.

Once again, I'm not eating nearly enough.
 
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Wednesday 7/9

Oatmeal 160
1/2-cup Green Machine 80


25 minutes partial spin class
12 minutes, ran a mile on treadmill
1hr spin class
45 minutes swim a mile in pool (various strokes) 2,030 burned

Sushi-lunch with Larry & Ronna:
Spicy Tuna salad 480 calories (Ronna said "not even 500")
10 pieces of various rolls 650?

piece of dark chocolate 65

large salad w/garbanzo & kidney beans & 200 cal's of dressing 320
2/3-cup spaghetti (damn, I ate carbs!) 230
1/2 piece garlic bread (opps, I did it again!) 170
small slice watermelon 70
piece of dark chocolate 65

Calories in: +2,290

BMR -2,350
exercise: -2,030
subtract 3 hours of BMR during exercise +293


Total caloric intake today: - 1,797

Again, not taking-in nearly enough calories.
 
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Okay.....here's the big question at hand:

Common lore has it that a safe & productive means to losing weight calls for a 20% deficit. Cool. So we determine our BMR (mine was measured at about 2,350 some years ago before I was as active)....and then we multiply it by 80% to arrive at our target daily caloric intake:

2,350 x .80 = 1,880 calories which means a daily deficit of 470 calories for a 20% cut

So this is easy....on any day I should just look to consume about 1,900 calories in a well-balanced diet comprised of protein, carbs & some healthy fats. Eat vege's, stay with whole-carbs, eat lean meats, avoid simple carbs, avoid sugar....we all pretty much know what on the menu.

Problem is, I have 4 kinds of days:

1) Days when I'm on the phone ALL day...zero exercise
2) Days when I just get 35 minutes on the elliptical (310)
3) Days when I do an hour with the trainer and then an hour on my own and then 35 minutes on the elliptical (1,250)
4) Days when I spin/run/swim for 3.5 hours (2,250)


The associated caloric burn on these days, provided I eat about 1,900 calories are:

1) 0 which means a daily deficit of 470 (20%) <-- ideal
2) 310 which means a daily deficit of 780 (33%) <-- aggressive
3) 1250 which means a daily deficit of 1,720 (53%) <-- way too much
4) 2,250 which means a daily deficit of 2,720 (95%) <-- WTF?

So how am I to account for this? Just keep eating 1,900 calories each day and not worry about it? That doesn't seem right. On my big days when I burn 2,250 calories with my 3.5-hour spin/run/spin/swim....I'm running a 95% deficit.

Conclusion: I've got to eat more on these days...but how much more? I know we're supposed to eat about 80% of our BMR, but what percent of my exercise calories should I eat?

AND...I need to pre-load some of this the night or day before; I can't perform well on Weds morning in my big routine having just eating so ligthly the day before.

I want to get results and I'm more then willing to endure the hunger and obviously I'm into putting-out big exercise effort.....but I don't want to adversely hinder my healthy progress. Eating too little and running a 93% deficit is just not right.

Somebody throw me a bone here....
 
Thurs 7/10

2 wasa crackers
1 tablespoon low-fat peanut butter
1/3 banana total 280 calories


25 minutes on elliptical -270
1-hour with personal trainer -480

Small protein shake 200

Chopped chicken salad
4 ounces skinless chicken breast 700

BBQ chicken wraps
4 french fries (yes, just 4) 750

Calories in: 1,930
exercise: 750
BMR: 2203 (excludes 1.5 hrs during exercise, can't count it double)

Ideal daily deficit: 450 calories based on 20% deficit
Today's deficit: 1,023 works out to 43%

Notes:

Still eating too little, BUT feeling some serious leaness!

Today I drank something I've never tried before, it's called ROCKST*R energy drink, the sugar-free version. "party like a rock star". Honestly, I've never touched this sort of thing....but this morning I was just dragging and it probably came from a modest amount of sleep and an appalling lack of calories the previous day. So, about 10 minutes before the trainer came I drank the can.

Nothing happened for the first 15 minutes...but then suddenly I started to feel GOOD, a bit giggly and it kicked-in. Btw, I don't drink coffee...so this whole stimulant thing is a bit new to me.

Ya know what....HELL YEAH!!! I just felt great, felt like I had energy and really got into my workout. Where has this stuff been all my life? :D

Zero calories and it's got Taurine, Caffiene, Ginko-stuff, Guarana, L-carnatine and a few other things. B-vitamins and what-not.

Tomorrow is my spin-run-spin-swim....I'm gonna drink some of this stuff as I drive to the gym, let's see the calorie burn now! Party's ON! :D
 
Friday 7/11

Oatmeal w/flax, wheat-germ, etc 200
2/3-cup Green-machine juice 130

Drank ROCK STAR energy drink....let the games begin! :D

10 minutes core workout
8-9 spin-class, strong!
ran a mile on the treadmill 10-minutes, strong!
9-10:30 spin-class, strong!
Swam a mile in the pool, various strokes 45 minutes

Total calories burned as indicated by HR-monitor 2,700
Yes, it really actually is possible...about 4 hours total time

Drank protein shake at various points 390 calories
Ate Triple-Threat energy bar 240 too
Drank 5 bottles with diluted Accelerade 150

Lunch
Spicy Tuna salad 480
911 roll 520
Caterpillar roll 540
1/2-cup brown rice 170


Dinner (not really hungry)
1/2-cup spaghetti
brocolli
5 grapes
8 olives
wasa cracker w/lean meat
4 pieces dark chocolate total 530


Calories in: 3,350 (probably less, I counted high to be safe)
Exercise: 2,700
BMR:1,960 (having taken-out 4 hours during exercise, can't double-count)

Calorie deficit: 1,310
% deficit 72%

A good day, feeling GREAT, actually sensing a thin/leaness.
 
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