A rant about basic concepts I

I am new to this forum but this is a great thread (long but great) lots of information. and truth be told I skipped a few. Hey i am lazy if I weren't i wouldn't be fat.

It's gotten long over the months.

It really started as me just ranting about some things though... it wasn't meant to be a Q&A.

But it's fine that people ask questions here. :)

I am just starting out again. I lost 70lbs. over a year ago and have packed on 40 od them again. I wasn't eating healthy when i lost last time and have since read and agree with the biggest loser books.

What were you doing that made your diet unhealthy when you lost weight the last time?

Admittedly I haven't read the biggest loser stuff, so I can't comment on that.

1 I don't eat breakfast. I hate breakfast foods, and i can't stomach food before around 11:00 most days. I try to atleast drink a cup of skim milk or v8 juice but is that enough to start my body off right for the day. I eat lunch around 1:00 and snack on veggies (used to be junk started today) around 11:30 or 12:00 then dinner is between 5:30 and 6:30.

First let me say I'm a fan of breakfast. Not only b/c I'm hungry as all hell when I wake up, lol, but I think it's a good thing to fuel your body up after the evening 'fast.'

That said however, I don't see any real issues with you waiting to eat assuming:

1. You're getting adequate protein in your diet
2. You're able to get in adequate energy even though you're starting late
3. The lack of food in the A.M. doesn't lead to binges in the PM

2 my husband is very over weight (over 400lbs) he is pretty solid in that he doesn't look like he weighs that much. He is not very active daily but camps with our sons scout group and things like that. He wants to lose weight but doesn't know how to start. He will get on the treadmill once every few weeks do 5 minutes and that is it. If I am understanding the thread it is okay to start with weights. We have a weight bench with a barbell, an elipticle, a treadmill, a stationary bike, and a home gym (weider with pulleys). I should tell you we all hate the bike but I am considering buying a recumbent bike (I used to use that at the YMCA but it was $70 aa month and I have all this equipment set up gym style in my basement.

Your husband needs to do things that are going to contribute best to expending energy (calories). Traditional weight lifting probably isn't going to be the best.

First, his primary point of concern/focus should be nutrition. You can't out exercise a bad diet, especially when you're over 400 lbs.

I can't stress that enough.

But I'd start him with primarily cardiovascular activities. I'm not sure of his endurance/capabilities, but maybe he could start with splitting up each session into 2-3 more tolerable bouts.

It doesn't really matter what form this cardiovascular exercise comes in, I'd just make sure it's nothing that has high impactive forces associated like running.

Walking, swimming, bike, high rep-low rest weight lifting, etc, etc.
 
It's gotten long over the months.

It really started as me just ranting about some things though... it wasn't meant to be a Q&A.

But it's fine that people ask questions here. :)



What were you doing that made your diet unhealthy when you lost weight the last time?

Admittedly I haven't read the biggest loser stuff, so I can't comment on that. Biggest Loser is about calories and getting enough calories by eating healthy less processed food in a healthy diet. In a nut shell 4 veggies or fruit (but more veg then Fruit) 3protein, 2 starches (whole grains not enriched not sure why but I like them so it doesn't matter), 1 fats and oils.

I was eating nothing but fruit and 1 lean Quicine a day. I kept fat grams down to 10 - 15 a day. I rarely ate meat or starches. and I hit the treadmill 3 to 4 times a day for 20 minutes a time and walked 2 miles a day with a neighbor.

First let me say I'm a fan of breakfast. Not only b/c I'm hungry as all hell when I wake up, lol, but I think it's a good thing to fuel your body up after the evening 'fast.'

That said however, I don't see any real issues with you waiting to eat assuming:

1. You're getting adequate protein in your diet
2. You're able to get in adequate energy even though you're starting late
3. The lack of food in the A.M. doesn't lead to binges in the PM

I am not hungry in the morning but I force myself to at least drink a cup of milk (skin for calorie sake) so that I don't get hungry early. If I miss that i have hunger pain around 10:30 and I will grab milk then and be okay.

Your husband needs to do things that are going to contribute best to expending energy (calories). Traditional weight lifting probably isn't going to be the best.

First, his primary point of concern/focus should be nutrition. You can't out exercise a bad diet, especially when you're over 400 lbs.

I can't stress that enough.

But I'd start him with primarily cardiovascular activities. I'm not sure of his endurance/capabilities, but maybe he could start with splitting up each session into 2-3 more tolerable bouts.

It doesn't really matter what form this cardiovascular exercise comes in, I'd just make sure it's nothing that has high impactive forces associated like running. No worries there.

Walking, swimming, bike, high rep-low rest weight lifting, etc, etc.

So will a evening stroll around the neighborhood at basically a snails pace help. I am packing his lunch for him (again started today) and I make a healthy dinner in the evening. He did munch carots with fat free ital. dressing for snack while we watched TV last night. And he is on his own for Breakfast as hate it. I cook breakfast foods (pancakes, waffles, french toast etc.) and freeze them for our son I just don't like them. To me the are syrup sponges and that is gross.
 
So will a evening stroll around the neighborhood at basically a snails pace help. I am packing his lunch for him (again started today) and I make a healthy dinner in the evening. He did munch carots with fat free ital. dressing for snack while we watched TV last night. And he is on his own for Breakfast as hate it. I cook breakfast foods (pancakes, waffles, french toast etc.) and freeze them for our son I just don't like them. To me the are syrup sponges and that is gross.

Anything above and beyond what he does not will help. I'd find something he enjoys are at least tolerates. If it's evening walks around the neighborhood, so be it. I'd also start really emphasizing the idea that you guys are doing this together. Talk about how good things will be once the weight is lost. This will create and maintain a positive frame of mind which in most cases will reinforce consistency.

If he starts walking, and assuming he keeps his diet in check, progress will ensue. Once he starts realizing that good stuff is happening, it will most likely translate into the desire to do more. At that time, he can step it up in terms of exercise and start walking further, using a bike, or whatever else he feels fit to do and wants.

It's all about setting up a plan for him.... and not making it something he must do or else. If you don't make it an enjoyable part of his lifestyle, there's no way in hell he's going to lose weight and keep it off.

Most importantly I think is linked to what I said above about the positive frame of mind. If he doesn't establish this, he's not going to adhere to your food plan. No way. Sure, he might eat what you make him for lunch and dinner. But you aren't watching 100% of the time and though he'll appease you by eating your meals, trust me, his he'll appease his natural desire to eat whatever he wants too!

On that note, don't be too restrictive in terms of diet. He's a big guy and can afford to eat a good bit. Caloric requirements are based on body weight. The more you weigh, the more you can eat. If you're too strict, I doubt he'll last long at all.
 
thats just the sort of bold as balls no bulls**t i need to hear! its true i guess, i think im eating about 1200 calories a day and that a couple of hours moderate walking is enough to shift 10lbs, but the scales aint moving on me!
prob cause i dont count all the calories from the milk in the 15 cups of tea i drink and i forget to add on that glass of wine or those pesky liquorice allsorts i scoffed. I am always the 1st to say "its not rocket science, eat less move more", but i think i lost my way and caught up with the whole Stuuuuupid and unrealistic idea of looking like something off the cover of vouge which i both detest and deplore yet secretly would love to be. I think its just gona take a large helping of common sense and honesty, lying to myself aint gona shift that excess and a stroll with the dog isn't gona burn the fat. I know in my heart that i am NOT trying hard enough, its like a pathetic fultile attempt to convince myself Im doing well, when I'm not. If i want the body of a vouge model Im gona have to work DAMMED hard to get it and quite frankly, I do not think that is realistic, like you said, you have to be realistic in your approach to your ideal weight and given my build, a svelt, lean physique aint gona happen. I always compare it to horses, some horses are naturally thin long and lean like Arabs, some, are stockier and heavier yet just as healthy, like an irish draught! I....am an irish draught! i am NOT prepared to sacrifice my health in the long run for some stupid unachievable ideal that spurs from the sim[ple fact that i am insecure about my body image, when in fact, i am a perfectly healthy weight! nothing and i mean NOTHING can help me now other than some good old simple excercise.
Thank you for that post, Im at work and regretting last nights Liquorice splurge, kyou've really put it all back into perspective for me. Roll on 4:00 so i can go home and start to get fit!
 
Glad to hear that thread lit a little fire under ya! :)

Is that you in your AVI?

Also, you're right. Chasing after the body of someone else is a 'dangerous game' to get involved in.

There are just some people genetically inclined to look certain ways. Their training and diet have nothing to do with it. The reality of the situation is that you're not going to make your body look like anything other than what it wants to look like.

Everybody has the potential to look phenomenal, relative to their own starting point. It's just that your phenomenal isn't going to be my phenomenal... or is it going to be anyone elses for that matter.

People start focusing on ideals instead of realistic outcomes, which is too bad because even the realistic outcome will be enough for most people.
 
yeah you're right! i think its a bit more of an emotional thing for me at the mo, i recently split from a 7 year relationship and now I'm probably thinking along the lines of needing to get myself sorted out and sexy again! I think this is gona be more a mental challenge then a physical one!
I should be happy as i am but I guess emotional times make everyone beat themseleves up a bit and look at themselves differently and in a bad light! ah well, onwards and upwards. yeah, thats me in the picture! i was rather drunk that night! lol
 
Well here's a secret for you...

This is an emotional ride for all of us. No matter the circumstance. There are a lot of hurdles along the way to improving your body. Most of them are mental.

Everyone is capable of exercising and eating properly. It really isn't rocket science. So these are little hurdles. It's the mental side of things where people get caught up.

It's a nice picture you have there... you look beautiful. I wouldn't worry too much, which I know is easier said than done. I know plenty of normal guys that would think, "hey, she's hot!" :)

I haven't read all your posts, but I remember seeing a few of them and from what I recollect, you don't have a lot of weight to lose, if any. It's more a matter of shaping up. That said, resistance training is going to be critical.
 
hehe, im blushing!!!!

well the stats are im 5ft 7 and weigh 9stone and 10lbs, i have a 27inch wasit and 40 inch hips another user told me that was ok, im naturally quite broad as im busty and wonder if 9stone is achievable? or realistic?

I was thinking of at least dropping to 9stone 5 and then starting on building tone and definition! a few years back i was gym obsessed and i always found that my arms, stomach and back tone up super fast but my legs and bum are a nightmare to tone! is there anything i can do whilst walking the dog that will help improve my legs?
 
I think you need to get away from the numbers of it all. Who cares what the scale says?

Work on achieving a body you love.

What exactly are you unhappy with right now?

And convert those numbers into pounds for me... I'm too lazy to do the conversion myself, lol.
 
I am new here, but :iagree: with everyone. Great information for newcommers! Anyone would take away from this "thread" you have to start with the basics, once things are progressing well, you need to customize because everyone is different, plus all the while, you need to stay focussed on the "reasons" why you are starting this journey anyway! Thanks for the information.
 
I am sure I will think of more things to add. Maybe I will edit the post later.

But for simplicity's sake, and for those who didn't want to read all that banter above:

1. Eat as much food as possible that still allows for weight loss. Starving yourself does not lead to long-term success.

2. Exercise aerobically using a mixture of steady state and interval cardio.

3. When it comes to lifting weights: Pick up heavy things, move them up and down a few times, and put them down. Big exercises that call on big, numerous muscles are ideal for muscle maintenance. High rep work while dieting in order to "tone" is BS.



Lastly, I have been noticing a lot of people taking my word as the gospel around here. Don't do that. Never trust anyone as being a "guru." IMO, there is no such thing. A lot claim to be, especially on the web. However, don't fall for that trap. Once you do, you will stop asking questions. "Learning" will become memorizing and regurgitating what comes out of said guru's mouth. Think for yourself. Ask questions. Read on your own. Research. Get clarification. Use that thing that resides between your ears.

Changing your physique is hard. Hard because it takes a lot of work, belief, consistency, and effort. Not hard b/c there is a chance of doing things incorrectly. Or that you don't know enough. Pretty much ANYTHING will work as long as calories are in check. There, of course, are optimal ways of doing things. But, the difference between what you are doing currently, and the optimal way of doing things isn't something to get aggravated about. Rather, that difference is something to minimize through consistently modifying your approach to include more of the optimal strategies.

Don't get caught up in the way of thinking where you actually start to believe that what you are doing is futile. As long as you are doing SOMETHING, you are on the right track. It's those who give up who are heading in the wrong direction.

This was not typed with the intention of showing you exactly what to do. There are other threads devoted to that. This was simply to get you thinking conceptually.


These were great posts. Should make them "sticky". Yes?
 
It is a stickie.

You aren't posting simply to get your link seen, are you?

Nah.. I didn't think so.

So you won't mind if I remove it. :)
 
I am going to rant a little here. Not that I am upset or mad, it will be a friendly rant.

First, there is a metric-ton of new people signing up to this forum on a daily basis. I think it is great. It actually blows my mind how many new members we have signing up.

However, with the onset of new activity, I have noticed that everyone is looking for that "one routine" that leads to success.

My favorite when it comes to nutrition is this:

"So I tried that calorie counting thing before and it didn't work, so now I am trying low carb."

My response that I would LIKE to use is, "Earth to You. All diets are based on calories. Even if they don't directly say it, they are. It is scientifically impossible for them to NOT be based on calories. Calories are energy. To lose weight, you must create an energy deficit. No questions about it! Sure, you can try the low carb approach, but if your energy intake isn't right, you won't lose a pound. Now flip that to a high carb approach (against commonsense) however, account for energy intake and wala, you've got weight loss. You see, there is only one underlying factor that drives weight loss, and that is calorie (energy) balance."

If you pour motor oil in your gas tank, the car won't run. That doesn't mean cars don't work.

Or, on the training side of things, you always have the person looking for the "routine" that leads to optimal results. Guess what? There isn't one. There is a set of basic principles that apply to everyone. These principles can be arranged a million different ways to create a "method" of doing things. I hate the idea of "routines." They limit your thinking. They lock you into a set way of doing things. Knowing how amazingly adaptive our bodies are, it should be common sense that a set "routine" is not the smartest choice. Rather, understanding the basic principles that apply to everyone is paramount IMO. I know you don't want to have to put thought into it. You just want to be handed a sheet that tells you exactly when and what to eat and when and how to train. If you think you can't do this on your own, find a trainer! A good one.

This certainly isn't written in stone, and I did not plan on writing this. At this point I am merely jibber-jabbering. BUT, a few things I think everyone should understand:

1. In terms of weight lifting, it is hard to go wrong if you are training each bodypart/movement 2-3 times a week with the basic barbell exercises, focusing on something between 5 and 10 reps for 3-5 sets per exercise, and striving to improve your weights over time.

2. Manage stress. Dieting is a physiological stress. Exercise is a physiological stress. You need breaks. By constantly stressing your body, you actually accumulate fatigue. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. However, if you aren't careful, and continue to push yourself past this "over-reached" state without managing your fatigue, you can reach a point of being "over-trained." This is not a fun place to be.

3. Training to a point that creates muscle soreness or DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) is not necessary. Actually, often times it is negating in terms of success, especially while dieting. In most cases, when talking about muscle traits such as glycogen levels and protein synthesis, the muscle itself is recovered in almost all cases after 72 hours. But if you are experiencing residual DOMS on a regular basis, you are almost certainly not recovering neurologically, which ties into the overtrained state from above.

4. High Intensity Interval Training. Somewhere along the line of my time on the forum, things were twisted. It became the, "Steve said HIIT is the ONLY way to do cardio" forum. This is far from true. One, a combination of steady state and interval work is called for IMO. Two, not everyone should expect to be ready for HIIT their first month of training. It takes a build up of fitness to perform true HIIT.

A simple progression for those with no exercise experience within the last 3-5 months might look something like this:

Low intensity steady state cardio (40-60% of max HR, ball-parked)
Steady state cardio (70-85% of max HR, ball-parked)
Interval training
HIIT

Once you reach a "good" level of conditioning, this does NOT mean that you rely solely on HIIT.

In some cases, HIIT can be counter-productive relative to your goals due to it's intensity. If you don't understand this concept, drop me a message.

5. There is no set caloric intake that is right for everyone. If you are following a diet that is telling you to eat a certain level of calories without taking into account your personal stats, 99 out of 100 times it is a bogus diet.

So how many calories should you consume?

A general rule of thumb for determining your break-even (maintenance) caloric intake is 14-16 calories per pound of bodyweight. These numbers are skewed, however, for very lean people or very big people. These numbers also factor in a moderate level of exercise. If you aren't exercising, your maintenance will be a good bit lower than this.

Also, to invoke weight loss, a good general rule of thumb shoot for 12 cals/lb or thereabouts, get at least 1g/lbm of protein, good healthy fats (75g or so is a good number to start with) and fill in the rest with carbs.

Monitor your progress through measurements. If things are heading in the right direction, modify your approach. Maybe drop your caloric intake to 11 or 10 cals per pound.

Also remember that you're not going to drop more than at most 3 lbs week of fat, likely less in practice, so trying to pull some BS to drop scale weight in a hurry isn't going to impact that. Slow and steady wins this race.

6. Starvation mode. So many claim to be in it. They are eating 1200 calories and not losing weight. Sadly, more often then not, based on the empirical evidence that has been presented to me, people aren't actually eating 1200 calories each and everyday on a consistent basis. Sure, some days they hit that low point. However, other days they are eating 1500+. Or, on Saturdays they binge all day or have massive cheat meals at their local restaurant. Don't lie to yourself. Be precise. If you can't do that, don't complain that counting calories isn't working when you are fudging the stats.

Does low calorie intake really invoke the starvation mode? I hate this term, starvation mode. It makes it seem like there is a switch that is flipped and all of a sudden, your metabolism shuts down. This couldn't be further from the truth. In reality, even a sane, proper diet will invoke the starvation mode if you ride it out long enough. The starvation response is a process. A process that gradually slows down your metabolic rate. Never does it completely turn off your metabolism. Eat 500 calories each and everyday. I promise you will never STOP losing weight. Look at anorexics. Sure, it won't be healthy. And even if you reached your goal weight you wouldn't be happy with the way you looked. However, you would continually lose weight.

If you ate 1000 calories per day instead, maybe, dependent on the individual, weight loss could plateau. All this means is your metabolic rate dropped enough to match your 1000 calorie intake.

Point being, it doesn't drop forever. Also, the process takes a hell of a lot longer than most with a lot of weight to lose, think. If you are fat, don't worry about the starvation response. If you are lean, and looking to get leaner, then plan for the starvation response by tweaking your dietary approach.

People don't seem to realize that there's a physical limit to how low your calorie expenditure can go while you're still considered alive. Metabolic damage has become a scare-tactic buzzword with no real basis in reality.

7. Set goals properly. I am not going to get into the importance of setting goals. I just want to note that it is important to make sure your goals do not conflict. 9/10 people come onto this forum looking to lose fat and gain muscle. This is not how our bodies work. Focus on one thing at a time. Gaining muscle dictates different stimulus through diet and nutrition than does losing fat.

8. Building muscle is not the be all end all component to speeding up your metabolism. People think that muscle burns some ridiculous amount of calories per day. The latest numbers I have seen are something like 6 calories/pound/day.

Fat-free mass is the primary determinant of BMR. However, people confuse FFM and muscle. While muscle is a component of FFM, FFM is also made up of internal organs, bone, water, etc.

The decrease in BMR with dieting is not due to a loss of muscle. It is due to the process of dieting in and of itself, and the various adaptations that take place within the body.

9. You MUST eat at least 5 meals per day. Fact of fallacy?

Answer: Fallacy

There is a huge myth that has been floating around the fitness circles that eating more meals per day speeds up your metabolism, thus, helping you lose more weight.

It doesn't.

I am a fan of multiple, smaller meals. I, myself, consume 6-7 per day. However, this is not because of some magical metabolic change that occurs due to the number of meals consumed. I eat that many mainly b/c I have to pack in so much food in order to add muscle. Too, eating multiple times per day helps with macro/micro nutrient uptake, insulin regulation, etc, etc. It has its benefits, but aiding in metabolic rate and therefore weight loss is not one of them.

If you can't squeeze in that many meals per day due to schedule, don't sweat it.

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That's the Good advice , thank u again Steve :)
 
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