Take endurance running. For some people, good form is as generally described. For others (talking gold medalists, here, can't recall his name at the moment, but I can dig it up if you like), good form is spasmic and ridiculous looking, and movement is not at all strictly on the relevant plane (ignoring what ft's talking about, which is a different thing entirely, though just as true).
This is DOGGCRAPP!!!
- Thread starter Karky
- Start date
I've seen an epileptic fit, it's not good squat form
but all kidding aside, I see your point, and I agree that moving the weight in a straight line does not mean good form is being used, this misconception is probably what gave birth to the smith machine.
I can use the bench press as an example. If you want to lift the most weight, you want to tuck your elbows in a little and touch the weight low, like on the abs, where your belly is the biggest when you're pushing it out. If you were to lift in a straight line from there, the bar would not end up right above your shoulders (with the arms perpendulicar to the floor, in a good position to support the weight at lockout) but further down (towards your feet) holding the bar here would be impossible! catch my drift?
is that the kind of thing you mean?
I've seen an epileptic fit, it's not good squat form
but all kidding aside, I see your point, and I agree that moving the weight in a straight line does not mean good form is being used, this misconception is probably what gave birth to the smith machine.
I can use the bench press as an example. If you want to lift the most weight, you want to tuck your elbows in a little and touch the weight low, like on the abs, where your belly is the biggest when you're pushing it out. If you were to lift in a straight line from there, the bar would not end up right above your shoulders (with the arms perpendulicar to the floor, in a good position to support the weight at lockout) but further down (towards your feet) holding the bar here would be impossible! catch my drift?
is that the kind of thing you mean?
Yeah, that was actually the first example I thought of, just couldn't be bothered to type it out. Was hoping you would.
Success! :action8: Anyway, in the above case, the bar travels in an arc, not a straight line. And this is a good thing.
YOU USED ME! omfg, I feel violated!
A lot of people don't understand the bench press example and solve the problem by lowering the bar in a straight line, the bar will then end up far up on your chest and you won't be in an optimal position to push the most weight off your body.
same can be said for CJ and snatch too, if you attach these fancy thingies to the end of the bar and film it, you can see the bar path on the film and it doesn't just go straight up and down.
well, the J would have to be up side down for that analogy to work It's basically just that you want to touch the bar on your stomach and you want it to end up just above your shoulders, and to do that, you can't move it in a perpendulicar line. I don't know if the line would be straight or if it would be more of a bend.
Yes I know straight lines don't exist, and I know that the line would never actually be straight, what I mean is simply if the line would resemble a straight line more than a curve.
It's basically just that you want to touch the bar on your stomach and you want it to end up just above your shoulders, and to do that, you can't move it in a perpendulicar line. I don't know if the line would be straight or if it would be more of a bend.Yes I know straight lines don't exist, and I know that the line would never actually be straight, what I mean is simply if the line would resemble a straight line more than a curve.
well, the J would have to be up side down for that analogy to work
Yes I know straight lines don't exist, and I know that the line would never actually be straight, what I mean is simply if the line would resemble a straight line more than a curve.
yeah thats it. Form is so important and I don't think many people research it properly. Or they try to do so much weight they screw up the form. Maybe its my martial arts background that makes me so anal about form.
Well, it's a good thing to be anal about form
. And the funny thing is, in most cases, good form is how you can lift the most, for example in the bench press. This is without cheating of course, like pushing your butt way off the bench, etc, but what I'm saying is that you can lift more weight with elbows tucked a bit and an arched back than elbows flared, but most people don't get it because for the elbows tucked to work you have to set up properly, and most people just lie down on a bench and start benching, and in that flat horrible unstable position, trying to touch low on your body would not feel very right, and wouldn't be very right either. I remember when I switched from elbows flared to tucked, I had to drop a lot of weight, because I didn't get how to set up my body in order to actually make the PL method efficient, tucking the elbows just made it seem like my shoulders were doing all the work, and they would usually hurt afterwords (from over working, not any RC issues or stuff like that).And in many cases people are too damn dysfunctional to use good form..
We could go on forever about this
basically, people need to learn good form before they start just caring about how much weight is on the bar. And even if correct form doesn't give you more weight at once when you switch to it, it still has the potential to give you more weight. Had I continued bench pressing like I did it could have taken me forever to get 100kg up once, so even if I had to drop kgs off the bar when I switched, I probably reached 100kg sooner than I would have if I had stayed with the elbows flared method.
that got long..
Not only that but you increase your chance for injury. I read an article in Men's Health about exactly what you're saying. Tuck your wings in on the BP.
I think thats how I hurt my back when I first did DL's. I sort of looked at form and thought to myself. I should be able to do 220lbs no problem. ha! I almost fell over and killed myself. LOL
I think thats how I hurt my back when I first did DL's. I sort of looked at form and thought to myself. I should be able to do 220lbs no problem. ha! I almost fell over and killed myself. LOL
I ordered some bands some time ago and they finally arrived today!
Two white ones and one blue. (I ordered a pink one, but the dude was out of stock and said he could give me two whites instead for the same price)
With these I can put pushups into my routine eventually
I'll probably use them on benching too, but I'm scared they are gonna snap.. I guess it's a noob with bands kinda thing
Two white ones and one blue. (I ordered a pink one, but the dude was out of stock and said he could give me two whites instead for the same price)
With these I can put pushups into my routine eventually
I'll probably use them on benching too, but I'm scared they are gonna snap.. I guess it's a noob with bands kinda thing
Thursday 11.09.08
Chest
30 degree incline DB bench RP: 10,1,0 @30 kg dbs
more reps last time with 28kg dbs.. I'll try again next time, if I don't have a proper increase then I'll cut the exercise. I hate RPs here as the toughest rep is always getting it off the chest at first. That takes a lot out of it and sometimes leave me at 0, even though I might have gotten 2 if I had started from the top
Chest stretch: 60 sec @18kg dbs
Shoulders
Seated Arnold Press RP: 13,4,2 @16kg dbs
Happy with this, last time I used 14kg dbs and got 14,3,3 Upping with 4kg in an exercise with which I use this little weight is good, IMO
Shoulder stretch: 60 sec
Triceps
Close grip 7cm board press RP: 10,3,1 (was damn near getting that 2nd one, a few inches short of lockout)
The first set of 10 had a bad setup, the setup on the RPs were excellent, though. I need to get my setup back in order
triceps stretch: 60sec @18kg dbs
Back width
Close neutral grip pulldown RP: 10,3,3 @85kg
switched pullups for these
Back thickness
Kroc row RP: 10,4,3 @36kg db
no increase from last time, + I think I cheated more, though results of the kroc row today aren't reliable towards increased back strength since I switched out the back exercise before it. On the new back exercise before it I used a lot more total reps than the last, so that might have something to do with it. Kroc rows gets to stick around for one my cycle.
PWO: the usual
Chest
30 degree incline DB bench RP: 10,1,0 @30 kg dbs
more reps last time with 28kg dbs.. I'll try again next time, if I don't have a proper increase then I'll cut the exercise. I hate RPs here as the toughest rep is always getting it off the chest at first. That takes a lot out of it and sometimes leave me at 0, even though I might have gotten 2 if I had started from the top
Chest stretch: 60 sec @18kg dbs
Shoulders
Seated Arnold Press RP: 13,4,2 @16kg dbs
Happy with this, last time I used 14kg dbs and got 14,3,3 Upping with 4kg in an exercise with which I use this little weight is good, IMO
Shoulder stretch: 60 sec
Triceps
Close grip 7cm board press RP: 10,3,1 (was damn near getting that 2nd one, a few inches short of lockout)
The first set of 10 had a bad setup, the setup on the RPs were excellent, though. I need to get my setup back in order
triceps stretch: 60sec @18kg dbs
Back width
Close neutral grip pulldown RP: 10,3,3 @85kg
switched pullups for these
Back thickness
Kroc row RP: 10,4,3 @36kg db
no increase from last time, + I think I cheated more, though results of the kroc row today aren't reliable towards increased back strength since I switched out the back exercise before it. On the new back exercise before it I used a lot more total reps than the last, so that might have something to do with it. Kroc rows gets to stick around for one my cycle.
PWO: the usual
Friday 12.09.08
Concept 2 rowing machine
Set 1:
Time: 7:31
Avg HR: 168
Max HR: 150
Avg watts: 181.1
Set 2:
Time: 7:09
Avg HR: 159
Max HR: 178
Avg watts: 197.4
7 min isn't very long, so that kinda sucked.
What limited me here were my hamstrings. The recoverly, pulling the seat back towards the rower is pretty much all hams and they tired pretty quickly from that. Probably because I'm not used to the movement at all. Since the hams on the recovery limits me, going lighter won't work, since pulling the seat in on the recovery will be pretty much equal regardless of the power of the pull.
I also notice I quickly get tight in the upper back, though this might be a good thing. I need to use my upper back muscles more, not only when I weight train, because my posture has always been a bit flawed. Maybe adopting rowing as cardio on a regular basis could help me with my shoulder and upper back posture.
Concept 2 rowing machine
Set 1:
Time: 7:31
Avg HR: 168
Max HR: 150
Avg watts: 181.1
Set 2:
Time: 7:09
Avg HR: 159
Max HR: 178
Avg watts: 197.4
7 min isn't very long, so that kinda sucked.
What limited me here were my hamstrings. The recoverly, pulling the seat back towards the rower is pretty much all hams and they tired pretty quickly from that. Probably because I'm not used to the movement at all. Since the hams on the recovery limits me, going lighter won't work, since pulling the seat in on the recovery will be pretty much equal regardless of the power of the pull.
I also notice I quickly get tight in the upper back, though this might be a good thing. I need to use my upper back muscles more, not only when I weight train, because my posture has always been a bit flawed. Maybe adopting rowing as cardio on a regular basis could help me with my shoulder and upper back posture.
I hadn't done cardio in a while before my rowing session, and it got me thinking about cardio.
My goal with cardio is primarily to lower my resting heart rate and improve overall cardiovascular fitness. My primary goal is not to be able to row x distance in x time or something like that. What would be the best strategy for my goal? I've heard about different heart rate zones, but I am highly sceptical, though I heard the cardiovascular zone had something to do with different enzymes acting on the metabolic processes or something, so that could actually be legit.. opinions?
Another thing with cardio is that it is specific. I've always sort of thought of running as the optimal cardio, because running is what the average person will be doing the most of in his life (except maybe biking) running is involved in a TON of sports, and it's therefore generally a good idea to be efficient at running and be able to run fast for long periods of time or extra fast for shorter periods of time.
Also, I've never come close to the HR I get while running in any other activity, except maybe weightlifting. When I ran on a treadmil I could hold a HR of 170-ish for 15 min, no way I could do that on a rowing machine or a bike or anything else.. I wonder why..
My goal with cardio is primarily to lower my resting heart rate and improve overall cardiovascular fitness. My primary goal is not to be able to row x distance in x time or something like that. What would be the best strategy for my goal? I've heard about different heart rate zones, but I am highly sceptical, though I heard the cardiovascular zone had something to do with different enzymes acting on the metabolic processes or something, so that could actually be legit.. opinions?
Another thing with cardio is that it is specific. I've always sort of thought of running as the optimal cardio, because running is what the average person will be doing the most of in his life (except maybe biking) running is involved in a TON of sports, and it's therefore generally a good idea to be efficient at running and be able to run fast for long periods of time or extra fast for shorter periods of time.
Also, I've never come close to the HR I get while running in any other activity, except maybe weightlifting. When I ran on a treadmil I could hold a HR of 170-ish for 15 min, no way I could do that on a rowing machine or a bike or anything else.. I wonder why..