Telegraph-Bodybuilders "are foolish" to take steroids

[erstblackbeard]

A couple of news items over a guy described in the news as a "roidhead", who has gone on the rampage :-

Source Raoul Moat's violent history shows why bodybuilders are foolish to take steroids

The story of Raoul Moat, the paranoid “roidhead” who shot his girlfriend and murdered her boyfriend, would seem to demonstrate the harmfulness of anabolic steroids. These drugs, which bodybuilders take to help them to increase muscle mass, are associated in the popular imagination with aggression. And that isn’t just an urban myth or something hyped by the tabloid press. It’s true: studies have shown that these androgenic compounds can, when taken in quantity and over time, lead to changes in the user’s personality. (They cause nasty physical side-effects too, of course.) Which is not to say, obviously, that Moat wasn’t an angry individual even before he started abusing steroids.

Another news item where he talks of some inner rage like Hulk :-

Source Could steroids be a factor in Moat's alleged behaviour?

A letter purporting to be from Raoul Moat, published by The Sun newspaper, said: "It's like the Hulk, it takes over and it's more than anger and it happens only when I'm hurt."

But it also said: "Obviously I have issues but I was pushed. I never beat my kids. I could simply admit to anything now cos it doesn't matter."

 

[summer123]

Yes, this is a sad side effect brought on by steriods. Apparently he is addicted which I was not aware could happen- unless its a psychological dependance (rather then a chemical addiction).

Its to do with the hormones produced by the drug- they create aggression.

Wanna know something else scary? 'kids' (I say kids in inverted commers) on the street with their pit bull terriors and sometimes staffs have been quite frequently known to feed their dogs steriods and look to steriods to give the dog more aggression (as well as more muscle). Sick or what?!

 

[Typhon]

Hmm, the BBC article seems little more reasonable but still makes claims it doesn't even attempt to back up with any evidence. The Telegraph one isn't really an article at all but a poorly informed rant.
The problem with these steroid 'rage' cases is it can be a little difficult to establish what came first, the rage or the steroids. In this particular case it seemed like the guy has always had anger issues which probably led to him wanted to bulk up to a huge size. That's not to say that steroids don't have a long term effect on your mental state but with this guy I think it's safe to say he was already nuts.

Angry and aggressive guys who want to harm and intimidate others will find steroids attractive as they can help them get bigger and stronger, but to then blame the steroids when that person goes crazy also seems wrong as the issues were pre-existing.

And what about the very widespread use of anabolic steroids by cancer and HIV sufferers? You don't seem to see many of them going nuts with guns yet they may well be on higher doses than that bouncer with previous criminal convictions. If it turns everyone into killers then why are the millions of ill people injecting steroids weekly not also going on the rampage?

Men are also frequently prescribed steroids (Testosterone) for HRT as they age or following accidents that have damaged their testes; I also don't see many cases where they have gone crazy either.

Like I said before, I don't know if there is or isn't a link but my gut feeling from all the 'roid rage' cases I've seen is that it's more a case of nutters being drawn towards steroids than steroids turning people into nutters. It might just be that the roids cause a slight elevation in aggressiveness that when given to normal people can be controlled but in people with existing anger management issues pushes them over the edge

 

[Big_Idiot]

Yea like steroids are to blame for somebody going on a rampage, you have to be mentally f**ked in the first place to do **** like that.

AAS = Brilliant

 

[Hoss]

Yea like steroids are to blame for somebody going on a rampage, you have to be mentally f**ked in the first place to do **** like that.

My thoughts exactly, but it today's society it's so much easier to just blame the drugs.

 

[erstblackbeard]

Are people on cancer or HIV prescribed anabolic-androgenic steroids? I don't think so. The Telegraph writer (who specialises in mental health and substance abuse) says :-

It’s true: studies have shown that these androgenic compounds can, when taken in quantity and over time, lead to changes in the user’s personality. (They cause nasty physical side-effects too, of course.) Which is not to say, obviously, that Moat wasn’t an angry individual even before he started abusing steroids.

They may increase the potential for explosive violence, boost aggression and also there’s a link with mania or hypomania. In fact, users may take them partly for these effects, believing they are becoming more masculine and meaner.

The says

This causes disturbing physical side-effects, from acne and breast development to shrunken testicles, and heart attacks. In the 1970s anecdotal evidence began to suggest high doses could provoke aggression, reckless behaviour and euphoria. a 2008 US study in the american Journal of Public Health found young men on steroids were more prone to violence.

 

[Typhon]

Are people on cancer or HIV prescribed anabolic-androgenic steroids? I don't think so.

Yes they are, quite routinely so as they promote protein synthesis and prevent the muscle wastage associated with these illnesses. In the UK Enanthate is the drug of choice with doctors as I understand due to its long lasting esters, but for male HRT I think they prefer transdermal gels like Androgel.

I have two pharmacists in my family and I can asure you that Anabolic Steroids are always in good supply at your local Boots store but are kept under lock and key and very well hidden because of their black market value.

If you take a quick serch you'll see that AAS use and research into all kinds of treatments has been going on for years. Many steroids we have today were discovered while researching treatments for things like muscular dystrophy. Obviously they are more often prescribed privately than by NHS doctors but that's to be expected because of cost issues, not medical ones.

Anabolic Steroids get a lot of bad press because of anecdotal evidence but the actual harm done is more to do with stuff like cardiac hypertrophy and psychological dependency. No lab research has ever found a link between Anabolic Steroids and aggression, in fact they usually find it gives men more consistant and calm moods. According to my endocrinology text books, aggression is linked with low T levels, the administration of synthetic testosterone stabilizes moods in men.

 

[Typhon]

Oh yeah, and just seen that two men have just appeared in court charged with helping Moat by supplying the guns, targeting police and transporting him.

If this was something brought on by steroids then isn't it a little odd that three men suffered from the same fit of steroid induced 'rage' at the same time? Or if it was caused by the long term effects of steroids on his mental state then it would now need to have happened to 3 people simultaneously!

This reminds me of the designer drug row last year, 'Meow Meow', there was a public and media outrage after two kids were reported to have died after taking the drug and despite the government's own drug advisory council saying it had never proven to be that harmful, emergency legislation was introduced to make it illegal.
A month or two later the toxicology reports were released and it was found that the boys hadn't even taken the drug! Other kids at the party had (and suffered no ill effects) but the boys that died were just drunk. There were no apologies in any of the papers as I remember.

As this case with Moat becomes clearer and it becomes increasingly unlikely that anabolic steroids had any part to play, I wonder when the Telegraph will publish an apology for making unfounded, unproven and unjustifiable accusations about this perfectly legal (in UK), yet controlled, synthetic hormone?

That was a rhetorical question btw, I won't be standing by the news stand waiting for the 'UK media made crazy snap judgement with no scientific evidence to satisfy public preconceptions' headline

 

[Typhon]

The says

Anecdotal evidence, hmm, OK

And the US report found that young men on steroids were more prone to violence? Well no ****! That matches up perfectly with my suggestion that men aready prone to violence would be attracted to steroids. It still does nothing to answer whether steroids cause the problem.

 

[erstblackbeard]

One cannot compare an aids victim on the throes of death to a guy abusing PEDs for 10 to 20 years. Aids victims and cancer patients do not take the ****tails that bodybuilders do for the length of times that bodybuilders do.

Bodybuilders in addition to their test, deca, dbol or whatever else they are juicing are also probably using GHB and GH all without medical supervision. Add to this the fact that a large amount of gear on offer is counterfeit and from black market sources.

 

[dswithers]

The problem is with the (ab)use of steroids, not with steroids themselves. Used correctly steroids are as safe as any other drug with useful effects for individuals with certain diseases including low testosterone. The problem is many athletes do not know how to use them properly, and because of the government banning and/or controlling them, they can't get any medical professionals to give them good advice, so most end up overdosing. Instead of properly cycling them when the perceived effects begin to diminish they increase the dose or take multiple types, and end up taking many times the recommended dose of multiple types simultaneously. Even then the effects on most individuals are relatively benign. Out of the millions who take them, only a very few individuals develop debilitating side effects, like heart enlargement or uncontrollable rage, similar to almost all drugs (and even many foods) that affect a very small percentage of their users in an undesirable way.

 

[erstblackbeard]

Anecdotal evidence, hmm, OK

And the US report found that young men on steroids were more prone to violence? Well no ****! That matches up perfectly with my suggestion that men aready prone to violence would be attracted to steroids. It still does nothing to answer whether steroids cause the problem.

Do you have any clinical evidence or any science and studies to back up your claim that anabolic androgenics have no effects on the mind long-term or have no effects on aggression? Let us take

Anabolic Steroids

Also called: Anabolic-androgenic steroids, Performance-enhancing drugs

Anabolic steroids are man-made substances related to male sex hormones. Medical uses of anabolic steroids include some hormone problems in men, late puberty and muscle loss from some diseases.

Bodybuilders and athletes often use anabolic steroids to build muscles and improve athletic performance. But using them this way is not legal or safe. Abuse of anabolic steroids has been linked with many health problems. They range from unattractive to life threatening and include

* Acne and cysts
* Breast growth and shrinking of testicles in men
* Voice deepening and growth of body hair in women
* Heart problems, including heart attack
* Liver disease, including cancer
* Aggressive behavior

You would definitely need more than your word for it to claim anabolics have no effects on aggression/mental health.

 

[Big_Idiot]

The problem is with the (ab)use of steroids, not with steroids themselves. Used correctly steroids are as safe as any other drug with useful effects for individuals with certain diseases including low testosterone. The problem is many athletes do not know how to use them properly, and because of the government banning and/or controlling them, they can't get any medical professionals to give them good advice, so most end up overdosing. Instead of properly cycling them when the perceived effects begin to diminish they increase the dose or take multiple types, and end up taking many times the recommended dose of multiple types simultaneously. Even then the effects on most individuals are relatively benign. Out of the millions who take them, only a very few individuals develop debilitating side effects, like heart enlargement or uncontrollable rage, similar to almost all drugs (and even many foods) that affect a very small percentage of their users in an undesirable way.

Couldn't put it better myself

 

[Big_Idiot]

Do you have any clinical evidence or any science and studies to back up your claim that anabolic androgenics have no effects on the mind long-term or have no effects on aggression? Let us take

You would definitely need more than your word for it to claim anabolics have no effects on aggression/mental health.

Well as we all know AAS are likely to give most users (depending) some androgenic side effects - increased aggression is a possibility...

But to say that increased agression is so much of an increase to that one may result in going around killing people, i beg to differ!

 

[erstblackbeard]

The problem is with the (ab)use of steroids, not with steroids themselves. Used correctly steroids are as safe as any other drug with useful effects for individuals with certain diseases including low testosterone. The problem is many athletes do not know how to use them properly, and because of the government banning and/or controlling them, they can't get any medical professionals to give them good advice, so most end up overdosing. Instead of properly cycling them when the perceived effects begin to diminish they increase the dose or take multiple types, and end up taking many times the recommended dose of multiple types simultaneously. Even then the effects on most individuals are relatively benign. Out of the millions who take them, only a very few individuals develop debilitating side effects, like heart enlargement or uncontrollable rage, similar to almost all drugs (and even many foods) that affect a very small percentage of their users in an undesirable way.

So you would consider non-therapeutic underground use as "proper use" then? That would be just like claiming that petrol which some people sniff to get a high can be safely "used" and one should not worry if they get brain damaged, damage their CNS or the other problems associated with it.

 

[dswithers]

Alchohol and Tobacco and various other 'legal' / 'safe' substances cause much more death and disease than AAS every year in every part of the world. Almost any substance can be abused and will be abused by a subset of the population.

I think there is a good argument that AAS and other 'controlled' / 'banned' substances can have beneficial effects and would be safer if they were used properly under medical direction than when they are obtained and used 'underground'. Too many individuals who might benefit from these substances are either denied their use by the hysteria surrounding them or forced to obtain and use them 'underground'.

 

[erstblackbeard]

Moat killed himself so it brings to an end his roid-rage fuelled rampage. He had threatened to kill a member of the public for every inaccurate detail about himself reported in the press. Very strange and unfortunate incident.

 

[Typhon]

You would definitely need more than your word for it to claim anabolics have no effects on aggression/mental health.

I made no such claim, please read more carefully

I would say though that has been no study on the long term effects for AAS abuse so there is also no scientific evidence to back up your claims either and seeing as you're the one that brought up the issue I really think you should offer more than a link to a site that suggests that steroids have been 'linked' to aggression.

 

[Typhon]

Like I said before, I don't know if there is or isn't a link but my gut feeling from all the 'roid rage' cases I've seen is that it's more a case of nutters being drawn towards steroids than steroids turning people into nutters. It might just be that the roids cause a slight elevation in aggressiveness that when given to normal people can be controlled but in people with existing anger management issues pushes them over the edge

See - I don't claim to know the answer, I can just smell BS and the link between the Moat case and steroids is stinking up the place

 

[erstblackbeard]

The parents of the teenager who died after being sold roids by his teenage friend set up a website - . Evidently possession without a prescription is (still) not an offence so the law is half-assed about tackling this problem.

His parents should have gone a bit further and lobbied for the "Matthew Dear Law" - anabolics reclassified as Class A or B and possession w/o a prescription be made illegal. That would have made it harder for teens to play around with deadly "gym sweeties".