Supplements... (Information overload)
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Jeanette401
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Actually, raw eggs are far less digestable than cooked 
Digestibility of Cooked and Raw Egg Protein in Humans as Assessed by Stable Isotope Techniques -- Evenepoel et al. 128 (10): 1716 -- Journal of Nutrition
And cooking meat tends to increase digestibility, although it does increase Maillard compounds.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of whey protein isolate, but I stand by my statement that the speed of digestion of protein pales in comparison to simply having adequate amounts available. Of course, there still isn't anything that's trumped chocolate milk as a post workout recovery drink =D
Also, denaturing has a number of effects. In some cases, proteins that are not readily digested in their natural state become easily digestible when denatured. In other cases, enzymes are deactivated. It's all pretty complex and I admit I am not a nutritional scholar. (Source: Advances in protein chemistry - Google Books )
Digestibility of Cooked and Raw Egg Protein in Humans as Assessed by Stable Isotope Techniques -- Evenepoel et al. 128 (10): 1716 -- Journal of NutritionAnd cooking meat tends to increase digestibility, although it does increase Maillard compounds.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of whey protein isolate, but I stand by my statement that the speed of digestion of protein pales in comparison to simply having adequate amounts available. Of course, there still isn't anything that's trumped chocolate milk as a post workout recovery drink =D
Also, denaturing has a number of effects. In some cases, proteins that are not readily digested in their natural state become easily digestible when denatured. In other cases, enzymes are deactivated. It's all pretty complex and I admit I am not a nutritional scholar. (Source: Advances in protein chemistry - Google Books )
Oh it is true some denaturing is required, which is why I said our body denatures the protein we use! Although our body usually does enough to make the protein fully usable, some food will be absorbed too fast for the process to be effective.
Also your article kind of proves the logic. A raw egg will absorb too quickly to make use of the proper denationalization which will decrease the efficiency of the protein, although it is still absorbed at a higher ratio than cooked. If you cook an egg, as said in the first article I posted, your body will still have trouble with the denatured protein. (by trouble I mean when you compare to uncooked)
Also, do you have a more recent article? I think that statistics might be dated. I'm not saying it's better to eat food with less denatured protein, by the way. Cooked food is vital.
Also your article kind of proves the logic. A raw egg will absorb too quickly to make use of the proper denationalization which will decrease the efficiency of the protein, although it is still absorbed at a higher ratio than cooked. If you cook an egg, as said in the first article I posted, your body will still have trouble with the denatured protein. (by trouble I mean when you compare to uncooked)
Also, do you have a more recent article? I think that statistics might be dated. I'm not saying it's better to eat food with less denatured protein, by the way. Cooked food is vital.
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ChefChiTown
New member
HAHAHAHA since when is powdered bullshit that's scientifically engineered in a laboratory somewhere and mass produced in factories a PURE form of anything? If that were true, then Kool-Aid is the purest form of strawberry and orange that one can buy...is it not?
Or, in other words...
I'm not really talking about muscle milk and those kind of powders, but whey protein. The process of getting isolated whey protein is fairly simple, at least the generic type without any additives.
Could you explain your facepalm pictures a little more? They are quite funny, but you sort of lost me without any description.
Could you explain your facepalm pictures a little more? They are quite funny, but you sort of lost me without any description.
KaraCooks
New member
Um ... well ... actually, whey protein isolate is pretty much a PURE form of protein. All it is, is milk liquids (whey) with the solids (butterfat, etc.) removed. It's not "scientifically engineered" at all.
You can make your own whey protein - although you can't microfilter it. Take regular milk and add a bit of vinegar to curdle the solids (making curds). Once the curds have formed, strain them in a cheesecloth. The remaining liquid is the whey. Allow the whey to dry and the powder it. Voila. Your own protein powder.
Jeanette401
New member
As near as I can tell, that study has been taken as authoritative. Pubmed doesn't seem to have any more recent studies that either support or contradict it.
I guess the question to me is, is there really an advantage to having whey protein isolate (WPI) as opposed to... drinking a glass of milk? While the milk does have some fat and sugars in it, you could make up for that by having less fat/sugars in your other meals. There's a lot of marketing hype about the great things that WPI will do for you, but I haven't really seen anything noted in study. That's not to say there's not a great convenience factor in it, but a metabolic advantage is something else. Just as some food for thought, here's an article about chocolate milk that suggests that having full fat milk is even better than skim milk for muscle building, so it's not clear that making the protein 'pure' is an advantage
(Although it's actually comparing to a muscle milk recovery drink rather than WPI it has a rather interesting bibliography as well)
And one on milk in general
Again, I'm not anti-whey protein isolate (I just got 5lbs from True Protein last month) I just consider it more of a convenience and taste issue than providing a true muscle building benefit.
I guess the question to me is, is there really an advantage to having whey protein isolate (WPI) as opposed to... drinking a glass of milk? While the milk does have some fat and sugars in it, you could make up for that by having less fat/sugars in your other meals. There's a lot of marketing hype about the great things that WPI will do for you, but I haven't really seen anything noted in study. That's not to say there's not a great convenience factor in it, but a metabolic advantage is something else. Just as some food for thought, here's an article about chocolate milk that suggests that having full fat milk is even better than skim milk for muscle building, so it's not clear that making the protein 'pure' is an advantage
(Although it's actually comparing to a muscle milk recovery drink rather than WPI it has a rather interesting bibliography as well)
And one on milk in general
Again, I'm not anti-whey protein isolate (I just got 5lbs from True Protein last month) I just consider it more of a convenience and taste issue than providing a true muscle building benefit.
KaraCooks
New member
Exactly my point. Which is why I encourage thinking of it as food.
Adding whey to your diet should be a decision no different than deciding to get your protein from cottage cheese or whatever. Not in the same league as a supplement like fish oil or multi-vitamins or anything like that.
It's easier to carry a serving of whey protein in my gym bag than it is to carry a serving of cottage cheese as an example. I could carry a cooked chicken breast in my gym bag and get the same benefit, but I'm not really a fan of cold cooked chicken (I know that makes me weird
I don't like chicken on picnics either. ). I just want people to get out of the mindset that whey protein is some kind of "magic supplement". It's not really. It's just another form of protein / food to add to your arsenal.
GeminiGirl
New member
Adding Natural Vanilla Whey to my plain Greek Yogurt is how I boost it's already decent protein. Chicken or Fish w/my yogurt not really all that appealing.
KaraCooks
New member
Adding Natural Vanilla Whey to my plain Greek Yogurt is how I boost it's already decent protein. Chicken or Fish w/my yogurt not really all that appealing.
Hahah. Good point!
Jeanette401
New member
Ahahahaha. The fish flavored yogurt... Blech!!
I will pass on that one. Nor am I likely to add anchovies
Incidentally, if you do make protein shakes, French Vanilla + milk + ice cubes + froze cherries tastes like a black cherry shake. Quite tasty
I will pass on that one. Nor am I likely to add anchovies
Incidentally, if you do make protein shakes, French Vanilla + milk + ice cubes + froze cherries tastes like a black cherry shake. Quite tasty
GeminiGirl
New member
I HATE cleaning out blenders! So, I'm lazy and just mix by hand into the yogurt.... I add either blueberries, cherries or bananas (all organic).
Can't beat it for under 300 calories, 1g fat, 47g of protein and only 22 carbs.
Can't beat it for under 300 calories, 1g fat, 47g of protein and only 22 carbs.
Jeanette401
New member
Haha. Well, my blender cleaning method = rinse, put in water and dish soap, blend, rinse. Every couple days throw in dish washer. So it's not so bad as long as DH remembers to rinse...
And I also like to put the frozen cherries in my Greek yogurt I just find that sometimes stirring powders into yogurt can get a little chalky.
Greek yogurt in general has got a great ratio of protein to calories.
And I also like to put the frozen cherries in my Greek yogurt
I just find that sometimes stirring powders into yogurt can get a little chalky.Greek yogurt in general has got a great ratio of protein to calories.
As near as I can tell, that study has been taken as authoritative. Pubmed doesn't seem to have any more recent studies that either support or contradict it.
I guess the question to me is, is there really an advantage to having whey protein isolate (WPI) as opposed to... drinking a glass of milk? While the milk does have some fat and sugars in it, you could make up for that by having less fat/sugars in your other meals. There's a lot of marketing hype about the great things that WPI will do for you, but I haven't really seen anything noted in study. That's not to say there's not a great convenience factor in it, but a metabolic advantage is something else. Just as some food for thought, here's an article about chocolate milk that suggests that having full fat milk is even better than skim milk for muscle building, so it's not clear that making the protein 'pure' is an advantage
(Although it's actually comparing to a muscle milk recovery drink rather than WPI it has a rather interesting bibliography as well)
And one on milk in general
Again, I'm not anti-whey protein isolate (I just got 5lbs from True Protein last month) I just consider it more of a convenience and taste issue than providing a true muscle building benefit.
I'm not very pro-whey really, I don't use it often. The idea of having milk rather than whey+water has been a long debate. While whey isolate will give you protein faster and it will be much much more saturated, muscle building requires some nutrients that milk has such as cholesterol, carbs and fat. Whey and milk together seems like the best route, but you're ingesting maybe 300+ calories instead of around 130.
I think muscle milk is a different story. I don't know much about it, but people seem to tout it as a very effective pre-workout supplement. I wouldn't use it myself, though.
ChefChiTown
New member
Anything in powdered form is far from pure. It's all scientifically manufactured and mass made in giant manufacturing plants. Pure? No, not even close.
Seperating the solids from the liquids, in the sense of seperating whey from the curd, is science. Nothing about it is pure or even close to natural. It's science.
Also, after going through a scientific process of seperation, the remaining whey is then dehydrated in scientifically engineered machines that remove all of it's moisture, turning it into a dried powder. What about that is pure?
If the whey protein you were eating was pure, scientists wouldn't be employed by the companies who produce it in order to figure out the best way to transform it's natural biology and alter it's physical characteristics (AKA - turn it into a powder), in order to get into small plastic jars that can easily be sold as a convenience to potential customers.
It is filtered, I believe. That would be mechanical alteration, not chemical alteration. Drying is also mechanical if it is in the critical temperature interval (ie [40c, 50c]). Furthermore, whey protein sold in canisters must include every chemical used if there were any. Some use additives, some do not.
The only thing companies do different is that they utilize things like extra fine filters and special heating devices (which, mind you, are used so they do not denature the protein more than it already was initially) to separate the whey even more and put it in powdered form. If you could get 20 pounds of powdered whey protein faster than I would by going to the store, then all the powder to you.
With all respect, I believe you are exaggerating a simple process. It would be 'purer' perhaps if it were never dehydrated if you discounted water content, but that would be extremely impractical. It would not last for very long at all and the degeneration of the whey would pretty much eliminate any extra purity if not consumed quickly. Just because something is powdered does not mean it is an abomination of science that is full of flaws, we have dehydrated things for CENTURIES.
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ChefChiTown
New member
I've made it myself in culinary school. You have to add chemicals and/or enzymes (or foods that contain the specific enzymes) in order to change the milk's chemical composition (which is a scientific change, not mechanical) to seperate it into curd and whey.
Once again, if it was pure, then why do food scientists make it?
I'm just sayin'.
KaraCooks
New member
Sorry Chef, but you're flat wrong on this one.
What do you think curds and whey are? Processed? Again, you can separate out the milkfat from the whey yourself by adding a bit of vinegar or lemon juice to your milk and watching the curds form. That's not processed, any more than adding oil to egg yolks and making mayonnaise is "processed". Unless by "processed' you mean any and all prepared and cooked foods that you make in your kitchen.
And "anything in powdered form is far from pure"? Seriously? Honestly? I mean come on ... get real.
If I whirl bits of dried bread around in the food processor until it's powdered, are you going to tell me that's not "pure". If I buy wheat berries and grind them myself until they're flour, are you going to tell me that's not "pure"? Truly? If so, then I think you have an f'd up definition of "pure".
Again, I think you have a very f'd up definition of "pure".
What do you think curds and whey are? Processed? Again, you can separate out the milkfat from the whey yourself by adding a bit of vinegar or lemon juice to your milk and watching the curds form. That's not processed, any more than adding oil to egg yolks and making mayonnaise is "processed". Unless by "processed' you mean any and all prepared and cooked foods that you make in your kitchen.
And "anything in powdered form is far from pure"? Seriously? Honestly? I mean come on ... get real.
If I whirl bits of dried bread around in the food processor until it's powdered, are you going to tell me that's not "pure". If I buy wheat berries and grind them myself until they're flour, are you going to tell me that's not "pure"? Truly? If so, then I think you have an f'd up definition of "pure".
So when I take a bunch of fresh tomatoes, right off the vine in my backyard, puree them in the blender, and spread them on a cookie sheet to dry them in my "scientifically engineered machine" (i.e. oven), they're no longer pure?
So when you blend oil into egg yolk to create an emulsion, that's a scientific change ... not mechanical. GASP. My mayonnaise is frankenfood - it's NOT PURE.
Again, I think you have a very f'd up definition of "pure".
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