Supplements... (Information overload)

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We all know there is no shortage of information out there on diet supplements, and so little of it is conclusive. For a long time I just avoided them but I have found a few that I can feel positive affects from and it makes me curious about trying some other options.
Right now I take these daily:
Multi vitamin – GNC mega mens
Whey – GNC brand
Fish oil – GNC.. making use of that gold card.
A few of the other options I’ve been considering are:
CLA
Chromium Picolinate
I’ve been considering mixing in an ECA stack for my next plateau.

Please give me suggestions if you have tried any combos like this and let me know what you would consider the optimal approach.

Thanks in advance

(Btw I'm down 45lbs since January)
 
You don't need to risk you life with a stack
 
I don't know if it's life threatening when done right, but besides the ECA stack. Any advice with the other suppliments. A lot of people claim the CLA and the Chromium actaully have benifit to health.
 
There are a few supplements which COULD be for you.

Multivitamins if your diet is lacking in things like veggies. They don't replace healthy eating, but it helps pick up the slack a little. You want a generic brand though, not any of those 'just for men' kind of vitamins and preferably one that doesn't have iron if you are already eating meat.

Fish oil, I'm not sure about that. If you ask people at GNC, they will sing you a song as long as you buy their items. I suppose if you don't get your good fats then maybe it would help, but I'm not 100% on this.

Whey is a good protein supplement IF you are body building. It's natural and not very high in calories. You want to get most of your protein from food, though, a supplement only gives a little boost to workout regime.

CLA can have side effects such as increasing your chances of diabetes.

The verdict isn't out on whether or not chromium picolinate is really helpful. Like CLA, people believe it can contribute to causing diabetes.



The thing about supplements is that they don't really help that much unless they take from you in some way. Weight loss supplements, for instance, often increase your heart rate by maybe 25% to give you a slight increase in fat loss. Protein supplements gives empty calories which you may not even burn and multivitamins can be dangerous if you have a diet rich in veggies or fruit.
 
Whey protein and a generic multivitamin are fine. Fish oil is also legit, but you can find it much cheaper than at GNC (that goes for protein and creatine too).

ECA and Yohimbine are the only legit "fat burners" out there, but it's mainly about getting control of your diet.

I don't see any way CLA or Chromium could cause you to be diabetic, but neither are particularly helpful for fat loss.

If you hit a major plateau in weight loss you can trying changing things up. Go to my blog and check my review of Final Phase Fat Loss.
 
A multivitamin is a multivitamin, they only aid in making up for a bad diet. Generic brands are just plain, no bells & whistles, pills which do only what they are supposed to do. That's all you really want from a multivitamin unless you're in your 40s and need something extra to take care of high risk areas.
 
The responses I've gotten remind me of how I used to think before I started talking to a lot of trainers (trainers at gyms that stock a lot supplements) and "health food" stores. I guess there will never be much conclusive info out there I'll probably just continue the cycling approach to my supplements.

I’m thinking I’ll take a break from all my supplements including the multivitamins and whey. I searched the net for a good way to detox. Hahaha surprise surprise more supplements..

Any tips on a natural detox? Should I try fasting for a couple days with lots of water? Seems like that would really screw up my routine.

The reason I’m asking about the detox is because lately I’ve been getting a lot more cramps and headaches and occasionally just bummed out in general. As I said I’ve burnt about 45lbs of fat through my body in less than 4 months. Fat that was created on a diet of processed food and substance abuse.
 
Whey isn't a supplement. It's a food. I get really tired of people thinking of eating protein based foods as "supplements". They get into this mindset of "taking whey" ... like it was a pill. It's just another tool in the box - like chicken breast or fish or whatever.

Detoxing is a myth and what you're taking shouldn't have jack to do with cramps and headaches.

Look at the amount of caffeine you're taking in the stack - that might have something to do with it. Drop the aspirin from the stack - there's no study that says it makes a difference and that much aspirin on your stomach is bad.

Just be healthy. Quit looking for some kind of magic bullet.
 
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Oh sorry Kara, it seems you misunderstood what I said, my fault. I meant isolated whey protein powder. That, I believe, is a supplement not a food.

Extra, trainers are usually not dietitians. If you want an expert opinion on supplements then you will want to speak to somebody who studied exclusively in that field, preferably a pharmacist who researches in that area. The trainers usually tell you what worked for them and they probably are in a different state of physical fitness than you are.

Some people should not take certain supplements due to their physical condition and that's why it's wise to seek a real professional.
 
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Lyle McDonald recently did a piece on supplements that was worth reviewing. He may not know everything, but at least he's not trying to sell you supplements.
 
I meant isolated whey protein powder. That, I believe, is a supplement not a food.
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Nope. I stand by my statement. Protein powder isn't a supplement. It's just another form of protein. You could eat a chicken breast and get exactly the same stuff that you get from your protein powder. You could eat a piece of white non-fatty fish (like Mahi or Tilapia) and get exactly the same stuff you get from the whey isolate. It's food. :)
 
I don't think you can get food which is up to 88% pure protein naturally. At least not complete proteins. Whey protein powder is also manufactured so that it absorbs into the body much faster than a piece of chicken would.

I see your logic in calling it food, but I don't quite agree with it. Whey protein pretty much fits the very definition of a dietary supplement because it offers the purest form of what it is intended to give.

I'm not saying your view is wrong, but I believe it's best categorized as a supplement. Matter of opinion, I suppose.
 
Erm, isn't 94% fat free beef 94% protein? :)
Unless you're excluding the water content, but you sort of add that back in unless you drink it :) Egg whites also quite high in protein.
 
Jeanette - I found those links quite interesting. Much more meaningful than a personal opinon with a matter of fact additude. Thanks.

A far as the whey goes I'm not so concerned about it. It's been pretty well established as a safe way to help meet your daily protein qouta. It's Processed from milk right? So maybe it's just a processed food to supplement the diet. No need to argue symantics.

Kara- you said detox is a myth. Are you saying I should just not worrie about the fat soluable toxins (pcbs and so forth) that I'm burning through my body when dropping weight just let it run it's natural course or is there something else I should do?

Thanks again
 
That's a good point Jeanette and it brings up the question why don't we just buy lean meat instead. That's why I said pure protein, not just protein. We won't fully digest all the protein we consume, but whey protein is more readily absorbed by our body. Because it helps insulin activity more than red meat and we don't gain weight from it as easily, it is a better source of pure protein (ie protein which our body actually uses instead of converts).

Aside from that, we have to cook our meat (unless you want to get salmonella or something like that) which will denature the protein and further reduce its purity. Whey protein does not get denatured as much through the process of deriving it.

That being said, meat is still a better source of your complete proteins since you get more nutrients from it. Protein only makes up 30% of the average person's diet, I believe.
 
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meat is still a better source of your complete proteins since you get more nutrients from it.
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The number of nutrients you get from egg whites or lean white chicken breast is nearly identical to what you get from a serving of whey protein isolate. Including the calorie count. (Really, it is. Look it up for yourself if you don't believe me.) :) Sorry .. whey is simply the liquid part of milk (the whey - with the butterfat solids removed) that's been dried and powdered. It's as much real food as a dehydrated and powdered chicken breast (if you were to purchase such a product). It's real food .. just as much as skimmed milk or powdered egg whites are real food.

So maybe it's just a processed food to supplement the diet. No need to argue symantics.
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I agree with the premise - it's just another food. The reason I argue semantics about this is that I see too many people who say they're going to "take" whey - like it's medicine or a pill or a vitamin or something. And when something goes wrong (like they gain weight) they say they're going to "stop taking" whey - as though it was a magic bullet that will tip the balance one way or the other. I'd like to see people stop thinking of whey as a "supplement" and start thinking of it as just another form of food - like egg whites or chicken breast or lean white fish or whatever. :)

Kara- you said detox is a myth. Are you saying I should just not worrie about the fat soluable toxins (pcbs and so forth) that I'm burning through my body when dropping weight just let it run it's natural course or is there something else I should do?
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I"m not sure where you're getting information about these "fat soluble toxins" from dropping weight. :) Seriously. It's a myth. Do a big of research on detoxing from valid sites like WebMD and so forth. Here's a bunch of links from a post I made a good while back - I keep it linked because this topic always comes up. :)

Here's an article from the Mayo Clinic on cleanses.
Colon cleansing: Is it helpful or harmful? - MayoClinic.com
While there is little scientific evidence to support or refute the benefits of colon cleansing, critics say it's generally unnecessary and at times may even be harmful. Although doctors prescribe colon cleansing as preparation for medical procedures such as colonoscopy, most don't recommend it for detoxification. Their reasoning is simple: The digestive system and bowel naturally eliminate waste material and bacteria — your body doesn't need enemas or special diets or pills to do this.
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Here's another Mayo Clinic article on detoxing:
Detox diets: Do they offer any health benefits? - MayoClinic.com
There is no evidence, however, that detox diets actually remove toxins from the body. Most ingested toxins are efficiently and effectively removed by the kidneys and liver and excreted in urine and stool.
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Here is a WebMD article referencing Cedars-Sinai
Detox Diets: Purging The Myths
But the science behind the detox theory is deeply flawed, says Peter Pressman, MD, an internal medicine specialist at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles. The body already has multiple systems in place -- including the liver, kidneys, and gastrointestinal tract -- that do a perfectly good job of eliminating toxins from the body within hours of consumption.

"There's no evidence at all that any of these approaches augment the body's own mechanisms," Pressman tells WebMD.
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Here's an MSNBC article that quotes reputable sources:
Experts warn of detox diet dangers - Chew On This- msnbc.com
“Long-term fasts lead to muscle breakdown and a shortage of many needed nutrients,” says Lona Sandon, a Dallas dietitian and spokesperson for the American Dietetic Association. Depriving the body of the vitamins and minerals we get from food can "actually weaken the body’s ability to fight infections and inflammation,” she says.
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Here's an article that quotes multiple medical professionals from the UK, denouncing detox and cleanse diets. Here are two of about a dozen comments:
Sense About Science | Detox press release
“‘Detox’ is a meaningless term that is used all the time. And because it hasn’t been defined, it’s impossible to say if it’s worked or if it hasn’t.”
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“The body’s own detoxification systems are remarkably sophisticated and versatile. They have to be, as the natural environment that we evolved in is hostile. It is remarkable that people are prepared to risk seriously disrupting these systems with unproven ‘detox’ diets, which could well do more harm than good.”
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I could continue citing reputable sources and articles for another 3 or 4 pages - I have many of them bookmarked because I've had this discussion before with people.
 
The calorie intake is of course the same, Kara. Denatured protein is still 4 calories per gram. Do you realize why athletes will use whey instead of meat? Avoiding the fat is an obvious point, but they also do it because it's been proven that isolated whey protein will be absorbed by the body much much faster than protein from eating cooked food.

The preparation meat goes through will cause the protein to essentially change. If this was not true then there would be really no reason to use expensive whey powder over meat in supplementing protein. You essentially get your required fats through very lean meat while getting roughly the same volume of protein. It would infact be ideal to eat meat if the protein was absorbed into the body at the same ratio and rate as whey.

Also, whey protein does not give you the same nutrients as an egg or meat really unless you used maybe milk or something else to mix it with. Whey protein powder is roughly 80% complete protein while I believe egg whites is around 50%(counting water weight I suppose) and meat can be anywhere from 50-95% I suppose. As I stated above, you will get a different effect from whey than you would meat even if their protein content where identical.
 
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Glad you liked the links! Lyle McDonald is not always the most politically correct guy, but he apparently spends large amounts of time reading the latest studies on all kinds of things to do with health & fitness.

On the protein powder as a supplement - I think Kara's point was that whey has more in common with a chicken breast than with fish oil or green tea extract.

I drink protein shakes with whey protein isolate regularly. ... When my husband isn't 'tasting' them by drinking my whole glass :p But when I'm tracking food I generally enter in my protein shakes to fitday where my 'supplements' don't get entered. I also know someone who makes 'protein brownies' with them + egg whites and a few other things, but so far I haven't mastered that technique... Really though, convenience and taste are the main reasons I go with whey - as long as I get enough complete protein I'm not that concerned about the source. If I ever get to the point where I'm way low body fat and/or struggling to add muscle I may concern myself with long digesting vs short digesting or whatever, but it's way more important to hit the protein target than it is to optimize the type of protein.

As for detox - I think the word is pretty overloaded. As much marketing as we get on the site, 90+% of the time when people talk about detox they're trying to sell you some herbal formula to 'cleanse your liver' or something. I.e. adding more stuff to your system to magically clean it out. So far noone's actually found any substance that's more effective than eating nice fibrous veggies for 'cleansing' that way.

I've done 'detox' in the sense of giving my body a break from processed foods etc. in a couple different ways. I tried a juice only 'detox' - it did not go well for me. By day 4 I was not hungry, but all I wanted to do was crawl into a cave and sleep. I suspect this was in part because my system did not do well on a carb only intake. Actual fasting probably would have been better for me.

I've done an anti-allergen 'detox'. I cut out gluten, casein, sugar, HFCF, fake sweeteners and any food with artificial ingredients I didn't recognize. At the time I was having inflammatory issues and figured if it was an allergic reaction, it couldn't hurt to give my body a break.

Fasting supposedly has benefits, but I haven't tried it myself. Certainly if you're concerned about letting who knows what loose into your blood stream, your biggest concern should be getting plenty of liquids.

From time to time I do take a break from some allergens and artificial ingredients, which could be another form of detox. Unfortunately, if you're looking for a definition of 'clean eating' there are so many definitions it's hard to pin one down. For some, potatoes are clean, for others they're evil. You could always try a week focused on lean proteins & vegetables with some less processed whole grains like oats or wild rice thrown into the mix.
 
Ok, later comments made me curious, so I went and looked up how 'complete' a protein is :D I found this on wikipedia... PDCAAS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score (PDCAAS) is a method of evaluating the protein quality based on both the amino acid requirements of humans and their ability to digest it. The PDCAAS rating is a fairly recent evaluation method; it was adopted by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations/World Health Organization (FAO/WHO) in 1993 as "the preferred 'best'" method to determine protein quality. These organizations have suggested that other methods for evaluating the quality of protein are inferior.

PDCAAS value of protein

A PDCAAS value of 1 is the highest, and 0 the lowest. The table shows the ratings of selected foods.[2][3]
1.00 milk
1.00 egg
0.92 beef
0.91 soybean
0.78 chickpeas
0.76 fruits
0.73 vegetables
0.70 legumes
0.59 cereals and derivatives
0.42 whole wheat
 
I understand the logic in thinking whey protein powder a food, but I simply don't agree with it. I can't really say its wrong because you can call a lot of supplements foods which is why the line is a little blurred. There are quite a few supplements which are basically powdered meals, but engineered for a purpose. Like I said, matter of perspective.

About your article Jeanette, I am quite sure it does not account for the preparation of the food. An egg white is one of the best sources of protein you can get, but not many of us will copy Rocky and drink the egg without some form of preparation. It wouldn't be wise to eat raw beef, but that article only considers the protein in raw beef (or at least minimally processed beef). It can't really guage cooking because everybody cooks differently. Whey protein simply has the least amount of denaturing from other prepared food.

(an overview of how protein denatures)
(specifically milk)

Your body still uses denatured protein in the same fashion as normal, in fact your body denatures protein as it digests it. The problem is that as protein is denatured your body might not use it at all at a certain point. Because whey protein has minimal denaturing and requires minimal digestion, it is absorbed quickly and at a better ratio.
 
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