Starvation mode
- Thread starter skyler1
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Slim Col
New member
Starvation mode is a myth... According to my doctor
I recently heard about starvation mode and it got me quite worried because of such a large calorie deficit in my diet. For days I became absolutely convinced that my body was going through starvation mode and I did as much research on the subject as possible. Some people say it's real and others say it's a total myth.
Well, yesterday I went to visit my 63 year old doctor and asked him if it was true. His opinion is that it's a myth. He told me that the body will always use fat reserves first as long as they are in plentiful supply.
Well that's a relief to hear.
I recently heard about starvation mode and it got me quite worried because of such a large calorie deficit in my diet. For days I became absolutely convinced that my body was going through starvation mode and I did as much research on the subject as possible. Some people say it's real and others say it's a total myth.
Well, yesterday I went to visit my 63 year old doctor and asked him if it was true. His opinion is that it's a myth. He told me that the body will always use fat reserves first as long as they are in plentiful supply.
Well that's a relief to hear.
I honestly think if you asked 10 different doctors, you'd probably get 11 different responses...
Starvation mode, as it gets kicked around a lot here, I think is definitely a myth of a sort... I've seen posts from people who are eating 800 calories a day, and all of a sudden stop losing weight for a week and then cry plateau and starvation mode... Those seem to be the dietary buzzwords that are over used...
When calories are too low, I think it gets to be problematic for your body because your body needs fuel to survive.. and if it's not getting enough, over time, then it will slow down... won't stop completely but will slow down based on what you're giving it... yes, I think it will always feed off the fat stores (otherwise there's no explaination for anorexics, holocaust camp people, starving children in africa that sally struthers talks about, etc) but it does so at a slower rate.
Starvation mode, as it gets kicked around a lot here, I think is definitely a myth of a sort... I've seen posts from people who are eating 800 calories a day, and all of a sudden stop losing weight for a week and then cry plateau and starvation mode... Those seem to be the dietary buzzwords that are over used...
When calories are too low, I think it gets to be problematic for your body because your body needs fuel to survive.. and if it's not getting enough, over time, then it will slow down... won't stop completely but will slow down based on what you're giving it... yes, I think it will always feed off the fat stores (otherwise there's no explaination for anorexics, holocaust camp people, starving children in africa that sally struthers talks about, etc) but it does so at a slower rate.
Go ask your 60+ year old doctor to explain the affects of Leptin shifts on metabolism.
Mind you, Leptin was recently discovered 10+ years ago.
If he doesn't know, then he doesn't know enough to talk about the topic.
I'll agree with Mal, it's an overused buzz work in today's media. But that doesn't mean the metabolic adaptations associated with dieting don't occur. It's very clear that they do.
Mind you, Leptin was recently discovered 10+ years ago.
If he doesn't know, then he doesn't know enough to talk about the topic.
I'll agree with Mal, it's an overused buzz work in today's media. But that doesn't mean the metabolic adaptations associated with dieting don't occur. It's very clear that they do.
I have to say that I don't get the starvation thing either.
I've never understood this ... "If you cut your calories your body will "think" you're not going to feed it again and it will hold on to fat"
I don't think our bodies "think" any more than a gas tank on a car thinks.
I DO believe in malnutrition. As in if you don't eat the right sort of foods you'll feel bad because you're lacking certain vitamins. But I don't believe anyone gets fat from not taking in enough energy.
I've never understood this ... "If you cut your calories your body will "think" you're not going to feed it again and it will hold on to fat"
I don't think our bodies "think" any more than a gas tank on a car thinks.
I DO believe in malnutrition. As in if you don't eat the right sort of foods you'll feel bad because you're lacking certain vitamins. But I don't believe anyone gets fat from not taking in enough energy.
You don't understand the true definition of starvation mode. I don't even like the term 'starvation mode.' I would like it had the media and stupid people not blown it way out or proportion and made it out to be something it's not.
The starvation mode is used in today's retarded lingo to mean, "Don't eat enough and you'll get fat."
That's not what it is.
The bottom-line is and always will be, if you aren't eating in a caloric surplus, you aren't going to store fat. There's that silly thermodynamics thingy majigger again.
However, the people who are saying things like, "our bodies don't think anymore than a gas tank" are grossly oversimplifying the human body. Certainly our muscles, metabolisms, etc don't have minds of their own. But our body is one big messy/complex/adaptive system.
I mean, do you actually believe that our bodies don't adapt to the stress of dieting. Even after all the stuff that's been realized/published through science. And throw science out the window... let's look at real life examples. I've walked enough people through weight loss plans to know that metabolism will downregulate in response to dieting. Certainly there are many instances where people eat to damn much and lie about their intakes and that's why they don't lose.
But I've clearly seen enough instances where people are eating what should otherwise be a deficit for their individual stats, yet, they are at a dead stop in terms of weight loss. Why?
The science answers that.
Instead of slinging theory around about a topic that is thoroughly researched, I suggest you spend some time actually reading up on some of the journals if you are that interested. Or hell, get a basic understanding from wikipedia..... just do a search for things such as metabolism, leptin, ghrelin, peptide YY, etc. Sure, wikipedia isn't the best source, but for those of you who are lazy and don't feel like doing real research, this will get the job done in terms of educating you enough to hopefully show that metabolism is a reactive/adaptive phenomenon due to a bunch of pathways that comprise it!
So, the classical/mythical version of the starvation mode where you get fat from eating too little is void.
However, the true version of the starvation mode is a very real thing. No, our metabolisms may not 'think' on their own. But they certainly adapt, and by that, I mean slowdown in response to the stress of dieting. In a screwed up, indirect kind of way, this is where the whole, "eat too little and get fat fallacy" came about.
Due to the downregulation of metabolic rate in response to dieting, many people experience a slowdown or plateau in their weight loss. At this point, you see many people give up and go back to their old ways of eating. However, they end up gaining all the weight back, plus some. Gee, it couldn't have had anything to do with the downregulated metabolism, could it have?
While I'm as sick of hearing about the classical starvation mode as you, don't grossly oversimplify the body discrediting all that we've worked hard to understand, realize and know to be true. There is a spectrum.
Stupid Scare Tactics <----------------------------------------------------------> Ignorance
Best bet is to fall someplace in the middle.
I'll add that the character limit isn't long enough to make a thorough post about this subject. Nor do I have the time/patience at the moment. For instance, the 'rules' are different for different people. Fat people's bodies aren't going to respond the same to a diet as their skinny counterparts. The list goes on.
The starvation mode is used in today's retarded lingo to mean, "Don't eat enough and you'll get fat."
That's not what it is.
The bottom-line is and always will be, if you aren't eating in a caloric surplus, you aren't going to store fat. There's that silly thermodynamics thingy majigger again.
However, the people who are saying things like, "our bodies don't think anymore than a gas tank" are grossly oversimplifying the human body. Certainly our muscles, metabolisms, etc don't have minds of their own. But our body is one big messy/complex/adaptive system.
I mean, do you actually believe that our bodies don't adapt to the stress of dieting. Even after all the stuff that's been realized/published through science. And throw science out the window... let's look at real life examples. I've walked enough people through weight loss plans to know that metabolism will downregulate in response to dieting. Certainly there are many instances where people eat to damn much and lie about their intakes and that's why they don't lose.
But I've clearly seen enough instances where people are eating what should otherwise be a deficit for their individual stats, yet, they are at a dead stop in terms of weight loss. Why?
The science answers that.
Instead of slinging theory around about a topic that is thoroughly researched, I suggest you spend some time actually reading up on some of the journals if you are that interested. Or hell, get a basic understanding from wikipedia..... just do a search for things such as metabolism, leptin, ghrelin, peptide YY, etc. Sure, wikipedia isn't the best source, but for those of you who are lazy and don't feel like doing real research, this will get the job done in terms of educating you enough to hopefully show that metabolism is a reactive/adaptive phenomenon due to a bunch of pathways that comprise it!
So, the classical/mythical version of the starvation mode where you get fat from eating too little is void.
However, the true version of the starvation mode is a very real thing. No, our metabolisms may not 'think' on their own. But they certainly adapt, and by that, I mean slowdown in response to the stress of dieting. In a screwed up, indirect kind of way, this is where the whole, "eat too little and get fat fallacy" came about.
Due to the downregulation of metabolic rate in response to dieting, many people experience a slowdown or plateau in their weight loss. At this point, you see many people give up and go back to their old ways of eating. However, they end up gaining all the weight back, plus some. Gee, it couldn't have had anything to do with the downregulated metabolism, could it have?
While I'm as sick of hearing about the classical starvation mode as you, don't grossly oversimplify the body discrediting all that we've worked hard to understand, realize and know to be true. There is a spectrum.
Stupid Scare Tactics <----------------------------------------------------------> Ignorance
Best bet is to fall someplace in the middle.
I'll add that the character limit isn't long enough to make a thorough post about this subject. Nor do I have the time/patience at the moment. For instance, the 'rules' are different for different people. Fat people's bodies aren't going to respond the same to a diet as their skinny counterparts. The list goes on.
ExercisePhysio
Guest
Steve is entirely correct. 'Starvation Mode' is just a way of describing how a body reacts to lowered fat levels.
Here it is as simply as I can describe it: The body controls its fat levels to a significant degree by changing the efficiency with which it uses energy. As your fat levels decrease a person will use energy resources more efficiently. This limits further weight loss. For ethical reasons we dont put humans into control starvation groups and glutton groups, but it has been done to rats quite a bit.
Simply put, starve rats for 6 weeks and then put another group of rats in an all-you-can-eat deli type situation, and the rats who are starving use energy 90% more efficiently. In another study they had a regular diet for one group of rats and the others got a cafeteria style diet and the cafeteria rats increased their energy expenditures 45%
What is happening is this: when you eat less, the body adjusts its efficiency, it's called diet-induced thermogenesis. Increases in body fat increase body temperatures, which require additional energy to maintain.
People also vary in their ability to alter their basal metabolic rate. Some people when they start eating regular/normal meals find that their metabolism increases quite a bit. Others, not so much...often they have to have more restrictive diets to make gains.
Michael
Here it is as simply as I can describe it: The body controls its fat levels to a significant degree by changing the efficiency with which it uses energy. As your fat levels decrease a person will use energy resources more efficiently. This limits further weight loss. For ethical reasons we dont put humans into control starvation groups and glutton groups, but it has been done to rats quite a bit.
Simply put, starve rats for 6 weeks and then put another group of rats in an all-you-can-eat deli type situation, and the rats who are starving use energy 90% more efficiently. In another study they had a regular diet for one group of rats and the others got a cafeteria style diet and the cafeteria rats increased their energy expenditures 45%
What is happening is this: when you eat less, the body adjusts its efficiency, it's called diet-induced thermogenesis. Increases in body fat increase body temperatures, which require additional energy to maintain.
People also vary in their ability to alter their basal metabolic rate. Some people when they start eating regular/normal meals find that their metabolism increases quite a bit. Others, not so much...often they have to have more restrictive diets to make gains.
Michael
Slim Col
New member
Oh dear. Just as the waters had finally settled I feel like someone's gone and thrown a big rock into the middle of the pool.
So one conclusion I've made from the above posts, from clearly informed people, is that eating less calories than your body needs will not cause you to store fat. Okay, I already knew that. And I already knew that eating less calories than your body needs will slow down the metabolism.
However, what I would like to know is; if there is too great a caloric deficit, will the body cannibalize its own muscle and connective tissues? My main worry is that once I've lost all the weight I'll have also lost a significant proportion of my muscle mass.
So one conclusion I've made from the above posts, from clearly informed people, is that eating less calories than your body needs will not cause you to store fat. Okay, I already knew that. And I already knew that eating less calories than your body needs will slow down the metabolism.
However, what I would like to know is; if there is too great a caloric deficit, will the body cannibalize its own muscle and connective tissues? My main worry is that once I've lost all the weight I'll have also lost a significant proportion of my muscle mass.
You can certainly experience muscle loss from dieting. You can offset these catabolic effects by:
Exercising properly, eating enough proteins, using sane dieting tactics, etc.
Some muscle loss is inevitable. Also, some people will be more genetically inclined to hold onto muscle while others will not. Lastly, the more fat you are carrying, the less likely you are to experience significant muscle loss.
Exercising properly, eating enough proteins, using sane dieting tactics, etc.
Some muscle loss is inevitable. Also, some people will be more genetically inclined to hold onto muscle while others will not. Lastly, the more fat you are carrying, the less likely you are to experience significant muscle loss.
Slim Col
New member
Thanks for clearing that up Steve.
Thanks for clearing that up Steve.
No problem.
Mind you though, if I would have said something mean in that post, it would have disqualified all the correct information.
MsGhettoBooty
New member
Mind you though, if I would have said something mean in that post, it would have disqualified all the correct information.
Thanks for clearing up the whole "starvation mode" thingy majiggy, you dipshit. HA! jk....
But no, on a serious note, I think this will explain a lot to those worried about the topic at hand. Nice post, Steve and Michael.
-Sheryl
Michael, just curious if you've ever read up on the Minnesota Starvation Experiment?
Thanks for clearing up the whole "starvation mode" thingy majiggy, you dipshit. HA! jk....
But no, on a serious note, I think this will explain a lot to those worried about the topic at hand. Nice post, Steve and Michael.
-Sheryl
Me is are a dipshit I is.
You is R meanie.
ExercisePhysio
Guest
No, i never read up on the Minnesota Starvation experiment. Should I? (Of course I'm googling it as we speak lol)
I just read a review of it in the Journal of Nutrition.
Just reaffirms my skepticism of people who say they aren't losing weight on these super restrictive diets. I really think people majorly underestimate their cheat meals and side snacks.
Michael
I just read a review of it in the Journal of Nutrition.
Just reaffirms my skepticism of people who say they aren't losing weight on these super restrictive diets. I really think people majorly underestimate their cheat meals and side snacks.
Michael
It was a cool study.... I thought I had an abstract around here but I can't find it. I really need to organize my research better!
There was a book written about the study, which I enjoyed reading. It didn't get into a lot of the specifics of the study, but it was interesting reading about how these subjects responded to starvation.
Just reaffirms my skepticism of people who say they aren't losing weight on these super restrictive diets. I really think people majorly underestimate their cheat meals and side snacks.
I know so, lol.
you mention it but go into no detail here: but do give all sorts of goodies about leptin
http://weight-loss.fitness.com/weight-loss-programs/10168-starvation-mode.html
or here:
http://weight-loss.fitness.com/topic/9539-starvation-mode-not-bad-made-out.html
http://weight-loss.fitness.com/weight-loss-programs/10168-starvation-mode.html
or here:
http://weight-loss.fitness.com/topic/9539-starvation-mode-not-bad-made-out.html
This article seemed to make a lot of sense to me. What do you all think?
What would you say if you learned that the answer to weight loss lies within the very cells that are making us fat. Not because they are there, that's obvious, but because of what they do. They don't just pad our organs, help us maintain our body temperature, and act as caloric storage units. They function in a specific way that is directly related to our appetites. In persons who are overweight or obese, this function has gone array. Healthy weight- and health improvements which go beyond those bestowed by weight loss alone-can be obtained by restoring these cells to their proper synchronicity.
To simplify a complex conversation, in 1994, scientists discovered that the fat cells in white adipose tissue (or body fat) secrete a hormone that directs appetite, affecting energy balance and metabolism. This hormone has been named Leptin. Until this discovery, glands were identified as specific clusters of tissues like the thyroid, adrenal, and sex glands. In effect, body fat can be conceived of as a large endocrine gland, similar to the skin as a respiratory organ of the bulk of intestinal bacteria as a digestive organ.
Leptin was soon discovered to be involved with insulin, with the cardiovascular system, immune function, reproductive function, stress, bone health, cancer, and inflammation as well as interacting with all our known hormones. ( In fact, fat cells communicate with at least 15 other signals...a much more complex system than previously believed.)
In varying pulses and surges throughout the day and night, leptin sends messages to the brain. When there are problems in this ebb and flow, health conditions can follow. In addition to obesity, these include anorexia, loss of immunity, bone loss, gastrointestinal problems, liver malfunction, heart disease, cancer, cognitive problems and nerve problems.
Leptin functions by gauging our fuel supply. It does this by allowing or restricting energy production. In their remarkable book Mastering Leptin, authors Richards and Richards declare, "Leptin is truly the survival principle of the subconscious mind." When the brain senses that leptin levels are high, we get the message to decrease food intake (our appetite is reduced) and our metabolic rate increases, breaking down fat and supplying us with energy. When it senses that leptin is low, then the brain slows down our metabolism so that we don't run out of fuel and die of starvation. Equally importantly, we will be hungry and want to eat.
Seem straight forward, doesn't it? Here is the paradox. Overweight and obese people have high leptin levels, so why don't their brains notify their bodies to amp up and burn more fat? Basically, this is because our bodies are tuned to lack of food. This is a problem that doesn't exist for most people living in the US. The [problem here is " food everywhere". Constant eating yields constant messaging from fat cells. The brain becomes leptin resistant even though there is more than enough leptin (produced by more than enough fat).
The brain is not receiving the sufficiency signal to turn on fat burning. Instead, it receives the red light on the fuel gauge, slows metabolism, and ramps up the hunger signal. As the Richardses comment, the brain doesn't see the body in a mirror. Instead, it gives an irresistible message of hunger, even of intense hunger.
A sure sign of leptin resistance is being unable to resist eating at night. Once leptin resistance sets in, the pancreas doesn't receive a signal to stop releasing insulin. This encourages the body to store calories as fat. In addition, because fat burning is slowed down, survival signals cause carbohydrates to be stored as fat. Furthermore, in the normal fat burning process, adrenaline is released, stimulating the fat cells to release energy. However, in the presence of leptin resistance, the adrenaline isn't used to burn fat. The fat cells become "numb" to the stimulation of adrenaline. This cause fat to accumulate around the middle. The heightened adrenaline also causes high blood pressure and sleep problems.
Although leptin resistance syndrome becomes a significant barrier to weight loss after age 30, increasing overweight among young persons indicates that leptin issues are now becoming common much earlier.
Follow The Rules
From their indepth study of current leptin research combined with personal experience and feedback from clients, Richards and Richards have developed the Five Rules. The bottom-line of the rules is to restore the body's sensitivity to leptin. Happily, this automatically leads to weight loss, particularly weight loss from the midriff. However, the most important aspect of following the rules is that the body reestablishes the ability to efficiently produce energy from food.
When it comes to natural balance, timing is everything. The rules put the body back in sync. They are not rules for losing weight; they are rules to live by. Not only will following them normalize weight. doing so protects those without weight problems from gaining weight as they grow older.
bullet The Five Rules
Rule 1: NEVER EAT AFTER DINNER.
Rule 2: EAT 3 MEALS A DAY, and DO NOT SNACK.
Rule 3: DO NOT EAT LARGE MEALS.
Rule 4: EAT SOME PROTEIN AT BREAKFAST.
Rule 5: REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF CARBS EATEN.
What would you say if you learned that the answer to weight loss lies within the very cells that are making us fat. Not because they are there, that's obvious, but because of what they do. They don't just pad our organs, help us maintain our body temperature, and act as caloric storage units. They function in a specific way that is directly related to our appetites. In persons who are overweight or obese, this function has gone array. Healthy weight- and health improvements which go beyond those bestowed by weight loss alone-can be obtained by restoring these cells to their proper synchronicity.
To simplify a complex conversation, in 1994, scientists discovered that the fat cells in white adipose tissue (or body fat) secrete a hormone that directs appetite, affecting energy balance and metabolism. This hormone has been named Leptin. Until this discovery, glands were identified as specific clusters of tissues like the thyroid, adrenal, and sex glands. In effect, body fat can be conceived of as a large endocrine gland, similar to the skin as a respiratory organ of the bulk of intestinal bacteria as a digestive organ.
Leptin was soon discovered to be involved with insulin, with the cardiovascular system, immune function, reproductive function, stress, bone health, cancer, and inflammation as well as interacting with all our known hormones. ( In fact, fat cells communicate with at least 15 other signals...a much more complex system than previously believed.)
In varying pulses and surges throughout the day and night, leptin sends messages to the brain. When there are problems in this ebb and flow, health conditions can follow. In addition to obesity, these include anorexia, loss of immunity, bone loss, gastrointestinal problems, liver malfunction, heart disease, cancer, cognitive problems and nerve problems.
Leptin functions by gauging our fuel supply. It does this by allowing or restricting energy production. In their remarkable book Mastering Leptin, authors Richards and Richards declare, "Leptin is truly the survival principle of the subconscious mind." When the brain senses that leptin levels are high, we get the message to decrease food intake (our appetite is reduced) and our metabolic rate increases, breaking down fat and supplying us with energy. When it senses that leptin is low, then the brain slows down our metabolism so that we don't run out of fuel and die of starvation. Equally importantly, we will be hungry and want to eat.
Seem straight forward, doesn't it? Here is the paradox. Overweight and obese people have high leptin levels, so why don't their brains notify their bodies to amp up and burn more fat? Basically, this is because our bodies are tuned to lack of food. This is a problem that doesn't exist for most people living in the US. The [problem here is " food everywhere". Constant eating yields constant messaging from fat cells. The brain becomes leptin resistant even though there is more than enough leptin (produced by more than enough fat).
The brain is not receiving the sufficiency signal to turn on fat burning. Instead, it receives the red light on the fuel gauge, slows metabolism, and ramps up the hunger signal. As the Richardses comment, the brain doesn't see the body in a mirror. Instead, it gives an irresistible message of hunger, even of intense hunger.
A sure sign of leptin resistance is being unable to resist eating at night. Once leptin resistance sets in, the pancreas doesn't receive a signal to stop releasing insulin. This encourages the body to store calories as fat. In addition, because fat burning is slowed down, survival signals cause carbohydrates to be stored as fat. Furthermore, in the normal fat burning process, adrenaline is released, stimulating the fat cells to release energy. However, in the presence of leptin resistance, the adrenaline isn't used to burn fat. The fat cells become "numb" to the stimulation of adrenaline. This cause fat to accumulate around the middle. The heightened adrenaline also causes high blood pressure and sleep problems.
Although leptin resistance syndrome becomes a significant barrier to weight loss after age 30, increasing overweight among young persons indicates that leptin issues are now becoming common much earlier.
Follow The Rules
From their indepth study of current leptin research combined with personal experience and feedback from clients, Richards and Richards have developed the Five Rules. The bottom-line of the rules is to restore the body's sensitivity to leptin. Happily, this automatically leads to weight loss, particularly weight loss from the midriff. However, the most important aspect of following the rules is that the body reestablishes the ability to efficiently produce energy from food.
When it comes to natural balance, timing is everything. The rules put the body back in sync. They are not rules for losing weight; they are rules to live by. Not only will following them normalize weight. doing so protects those without weight problems from gaining weight as they grow older.
bullet The Five Rules
Rule 1: NEVER EAT AFTER DINNER.
Rule 2: EAT 3 MEALS A DAY, and DO NOT SNACK.
Rule 3: DO NOT EAT LARGE MEALS.
Rule 4: EAT SOME PROTEIN AT BREAKFAST.
Rule 5: REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF CARBS EATEN.