Pro-Lifers, Pro-Choicers, etc

fatSmash777 said:
Pro choice means murder. Killing a human being. Doesn't matter what stage the baby is in, its murder. Ask any mother, ANY who at the time were thinking of having an abortion but chose not to. What a shame it would be that after ur kids grow up, to think that you actually once thought of killing them. Ohhhhh yeah I said it. ITS GONNA GET HEATED IN HERE cmon people
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You techincally did not say anything... You just made a good example for how good debates/conversations can go awry.


I would say in order to have killed a human being you would have had to established what a being is. I define a being, or more specifically a human being as sentient life.

Honestly though, when it comes to rape and incest, I believe no one has the right to tell the victim what to decide. Of course those who have never dealt with rape victims can judge them, its always easier when you are at a distance.:rant:
 
Mr.Sickles said:
You techincally did not say anything... You just made a good example for how good debates/conversations can go awry.


I would say in order to have killed a human being you would have had to established what a being is. I define a being, or more specifically a human being as sentient life.

Honestly though, when it comes to rape and incest, I believe no one has the right to tell the victim what to decide. Of course those who have never dealt with rape victims can judge them, its always easier when you are at a distance.:rant:
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Agree. Totally. Most people who are so 'violently' pro-life have never dealt with anything like that, thus being able to see everything just in black and white. But that's not how the world works, there's a lot of grey out there.

I have worked with abused girls, some of them came to us pregnant, and the mere thought of forcing any of them to have the baby completely disgusts me. It's like putting the 'life' (even though I agree with Mr. Sickles, you first have to establish what a life/human being is) of what is eventually going to be a baby over the life of the mother. Doesn't matter if she's miserable, or ends up hating the kid, or ends up killing herself, as long as the kid is born. That's sick.

And just for the record, I have a friend who thought about an abortion and didn't have it. She had the kid, but as expected wasn't able to cope, and the kid ended up in the system. To this day my friend regrets not having gone through with the abortion, because never being born would have certainly been way better than what both of them went through. So I guess the example doesn't work for EVERY mother.

As for it getting heated....I don't think so. A heated discussion is only possible if both sides have valid, comprehensible arguments and are capable of having a discussion without letting it drop to the level of throwing around rather opinionated clichès without any real idea what they are talking about. If fatSmash777's post is any indication, I rather doubt he/she is capable of that.

No offense.
 
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I think everyone values life in one form or another. Look at the two main political sides and you see it. I'm making a generalization here...but most democrats are against people dying in war and most republicans are against people dying before birth. I think it's just in us all to want to preserve the human race... Just a random observation.

Our decisions about these issues will most likely already have been made up because of upbringing, personal experiences, and what we consider valuable. I'm not in here for an argument at all. With that being said....



San said:
And just for the record, I have a friend who thought about an abortion and didn't have it. She had the kid, but as expected wasn't able to cope, and the kid ended up in the system.To this day my friend regrets not having gone through with the abortion, because never being born would have certainly been way better than what both of them went through.So I guess the example doesn't work for EVERY mother.
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How does one, without a doubt, know that for sure? My mom and sister both had one and the regret and the grieving process has never ended for them.

I've never looked into it, but is there proper counseling for after-the-fact at the clinics for those who have gone through with this? It seems devastating.

I have a good friend who was conceived from a rape. My life (and countless others) would not be the same had his life been canceled. He is an amazing person and so is his mother.
 
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How does one, without a doubt, know that for sure? My mom and sister both had one and the regret and the grieving process has never ended for them.

I've never looked into it, but is there proper counseling for after-the-fact at the clinics for those who have gone through with this? It seems devastating.

I have a good friend who was conceived from a rape. My life (and countless others) would not be the same had his life been canceled. He is an amazing person and so is his mother.
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You can't know for sure, of course. Nobody can. But if a mother can't cope with a child, things can get very, very ugly. And I actually know her daughter, who, to this day, hasn't forgiven her mother for bringing her into this world knowing she wouldn't be able to take care of her properly.

As for the clinics, over here there is proper counselling before and after the abortion, but I don't know about other countries.

As for your friend, I am glad it all turned out so well, but it could have been different. His mother could have resented him for reminding her of the rape, and I am sorry, but can anybody in their right mind really resent a woman for not wanting to have a child out of a rape? I don't think anybody has the right to judge them at all unless they know what they are talking about, i.e. have been or are in the same situation.

I lost a child when I was 17, and to this day I am convinced that, as painful as it was, it was for the better. I had considered an abortion but wasn't in a situation where I could make that decision without having to fear for my life. If I could have, I would have done it, because all there would have been for that child would have been violence, fear, and pain. If deciding that I didn't want to subject a child to that makes me a bad person, then hey, I'm a bad person, and darn proud of it.

What I am trying to say is, you can't generalize things like these. There are cases in which abortion is the only way, and I don't think people should be judged for it by people who don't know and/or don't understand their story. That said, I am not for abortion as a contraception method, not at all. I just think that in extreme cases, the mother should have the right to make the decision, nobody else.
 
San said:
You can't know for sure, of course. Nobody can. But if a mother can't cope with a child, things can get very, very ugly. And I actually know her daughter, who, to this day, hasn't forgiven her mother for bringing her into this world knowing she wouldn't be able to take care of her properly.

One day the daughter may change her mind. Life has a way of turning around for the better sometimes. I hope it does for her. I'm sure her life has been tough.

As for the clinics, over here there is proper counselling before and after the abortion, but I don't know about other countries. That's good to know. I hope that more people know about this. I don't go around looking or researching it, but I had never heard of it.

His mother could have resented him for reminding her of the rape, and I am sorry, but can anybody in their right mind really resent a woman for not wanting to have a child out of a rape? I don't think anybody has the right to judge them at all unless they know what they are talking about, i.e. have been or are in the same situation. Agreed.


What I am trying to say is, you can't generalize things like these. There are cases in which abortion is the only way.... I don't really agree with that. However, I do not judge the people that have chosen this for themselves and their future children. It is a choice that each person must make and I just happen to not be for it--for me. I think about my youngest sister who is 14 and the thought of her being raped and impregnated b/c of it, is bone chilling. I can't imagine what it must be like for those who have to be forced to make a decision like that. The majority of abortions are not related to this issue and those are harder for me to comprehend. Sometimes it's hard to agree with something that we just don't understand.
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..........
 
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pastelroses said:
The majority of abortions are not related to this issue and those are harder for me to comprehend. Sometimes it's hard to agree with something that we just don't understand.
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I actually totally agree with you on that one. The majority of abortions aren't 'extreme cases', and I don't in any way endorse abortion just because the woman and her partner couldn't be bothered with contraception, or because they just happened to 'change their minds'. And I don't think that's what pro-choice should be about, either. All I'm saying is that in extreme cases, like rape, abuse, illness and things like that, it should be an option, and the woman should have a choice, that's all. I'm certainly not all for 'getting rid off it' just for the heck of it, and I sincerely hope it didn't come across that way.
 
Mr.Sickles said:
You techincally did not say anything... You just made a good example for how good debates/conversations can go awry.


I would say in order to have killed a human being you would have had to established what a being is. I define a being, or more specifically a human being as sentient life.

Honestly though, when it comes to rape and incest, I believe no one has the right to tell the victim what to decide. Of course those who have never dealt with rape victims can judge them, its always easier when you are at a distance.:rant:
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Actually I said alot "Mr. Sickles". I got down to the point. In the end its common sense. People like you tend to complicate obvious matters. "Hmm, lets establish what a human being is." LOL cmon....
 
San said:
Agree. Totally. Most people who are so 'violently' pro-life have never dealt with anything like that, thus being able to see everything just in black and white. But that's not how the world works, there's a lot of grey out there.

I have worked with abused girls, some of them came to us pregnant, and the mere thought of forcing any of them to have the baby completely disgusts me. It's like putting the 'life' (even though I agree with Mr. Sickles, you first have to establish what a life/human being is) of what is eventually going to be a baby over the life of the mother. Doesn't matter if she's miserable, or ends up hating the kid, or ends up killing herself, as long as the kid is born. That's sick.

And just for the record, I have a friend who thought about an abortion and didn't have it. She had the kid, but as expected wasn't able to cope, and the kid ended up in the system. To this day my friend regrets not having gone through with the abortion, because never being born would have certainly been way better than what both of them went through. So I guess the example doesn't work for EVERY mother.

As for it getting heated....I don't think so. A heated discussion is only possible if both sides have valid, comprehensible arguments and are capable of having a discussion without letting it drop to the level of throwing around rather opinionated clichès without any real idea what they are talking about. If fatSmash777's post is any indication, I rather doubt he/she is capable of that.

No offense.
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:icon_bs: OoOoOoO aren't you and your friend smart. LOL. Your friend probably didn't raise her child right. No offense. :) I feel sorry for you and your friend, but mostly your friend's child. I am actually proud of her that she didn't have the abortion. Sex shouldn't be something to take advantage of. And if it is, there are consequences that must be faced. As for the abortion, it is the murder of an innocent human being. You are now playing God and saying hmm, should I let this baby live so I don't have to take responsibility for my actions, or should I simply kill it for my own personal benefit. :coolgleamA:
 
fatSmash777 said:
...You are now playing God and saying hmm, should I let this baby live so I don't have to take responsibility for my actions, or should I simply kill it for my own personal benefit. :coolgleamA:
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You are so full of it, it's not even funny anymore. Political/moral oppinions are one thing, but you're taking it to a whole new level.
I doubt it's worth the time to even try and 'discuss' anything with you, so I will refrain from any further comments to you.
I always try my hardest not to wish anything bad to happen to anybody, but people like you make it really difficult.
And by the way...there's no such thing as a god in my world. I make the decisions, I have to live with them. You take care of your own business, and leave me well alone. That's how it works.
 
txsqlchick said:
I disagree strenuously with what fatsmash said but I hope people didn't neg-rep him/her for his/her political views. :icon_bs:
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I don't know about anybody else, but I didn't. Unless I get personally attacked and/or verbally abused, I would never neg-rep anybody.
 
San said:
I actually totally agree with you on that one. The majority of abortions aren't 'extreme cases', and I don't in any way endorse abortion just because the woman and her partner couldn't be bothered with contraception, or because they just happened to 'change their minds'. And I don't think that's what pro-choice should be about, either. All I'm saying is that in extreme cases, like rape, abuse, illness and things like that, it should be an option, and the woman should have a choice, that's all. I'm certainly not all for 'getting rid off it' just for the heck of it, and I sincerely hope it didn't come across that way.
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Hi San, I enjoyed this discussion with you. It's very refreshing to have a disagreement with someone (although we did agree on certain points) without getting nasty about it. Thanks.
 
San said:
I don't know about anybody else, but I didn't. Unless I get personally attacked and/or verbally abused, I would never neg-rep anybody.
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Coolio.

FWIW I'm pro-choice but at this point in my life I would not have an abortion. I won't tell other people what to do with their bodies, that's up to them.
 
San said:
I don't know about anybody else, but I didn't. Unless I get personally attacked and/or verbally abused, I would never neg-rep anybody.
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lol we both said no offense taken right? lol i dont want anyone to think just because i have 4 posts that I have no idea what im talking about or that i dont know how to use a forum. I am sorry if I offended anyone here, as you can tell I started out with a respectful tone and valid point. But we'll call it what it is. BTW San, have you ever looked into religion? Bad things happen to everyone. It seems you are depressed. Once I started going to church, my whole life changed around. I have also lost 23 pounds in 3 weeks lol. Anyway, just wanted to point out if I hurt you or anyone elses feelings then i'm sorry. This is always a tough discussion lol oh and btw its funny someone Neg'd me for a valid point. :)
 
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fatSmash777 said:
I am sorry if I offended anyone here, as you can tell I started out with a respectful tone and valid point.
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I actually wish you had come in with a respectful tone. The way you went about it was embarrassing. It almost makes me wonder if your posts were a joke to get people to be turned off to pro-lifers and church-goers. I share some of your veiws and I am even turned off. I can't imagine what people who aren't pro-life are thinking. Actually I can. You came in here with a "BRING IT ON" snobby attitude. Not sure if you think that's supposed to be effective...but it's not.

Also, I really DON'T think you know how to use a forum properly.
 
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fatSmash777 said:
lol we both said no offense taken right? lol i dont want anyone to think just because i have 4 posts that I have no idea what im talking about or that i dont know how to use a forum. I am sorry if I offended anyone here, as you can tell I started out with a respectful tone and valid point. But we'll call it what it is. BTW San, have you ever looked into religion? Bad things happen to everyone. It seems you are depressed. Once I started going to church, my whole life changed around. I have also lost 23 pounds in 3 weeks lol. Anyway, just wanted to point out if I hurt you or anyone elses feelings then i'm sorry. This is always a tough discussion lol oh and btw its funny someone Neg'd me for a valid point. :)
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Nope, we didn't. And you didn't have a valid point, or a respectful tone.

And yes, I looked into religions, studied them, and learned a lot about them. That's why I don't want anything to do with them.

And I don't know what gives you the impression that I am depressed. The fact that I don't believe in a book of fairy tales? (Rather brutal ones, but fairy tales nonetheless). Sorry to disappoint, but I am not. And while I discuss a lot of things, I don't discuss religion, so don't try to start.

I doubt anybody gave you negative rep for a 'valid point', because let's face it, you didn't make a valid point. All you did was come out here and shout a bunch of old 'bring it on' phrases, with no substance behind it. You were given the negative rep for your attitude, and the way you attacked people, or at least that is what I assume.
 
txsqlchick said:
I don't think that's a safe rate of weight loss. That's more than 7lbs a week. You shouldn't lose more than 1-2lbs per week.
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Maybe He/She was healed of weight gain by a tongue speaking evangelical. "You've been HEALED!"*Slaps Forehead*

I am just saying.. it is possible.

Send my $500.00 and a prayer note and I will make your wildest dreams come true too.


NO Checks or COD's
 
Mr.Sickles said:
Maybe He/She was healed of weight gain by a tongue speaking evangelical. "You've been HEALED!"*Slaps Forehead*

I am just saying.. it is possible.

Send my $500.00 and a prayer note and I will make your wildest dreams come true too.


NO Checks or COD's
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:smilielol5:
 
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