Paleolithic Diet

[Jericho]

Neither was cleaned water, medical supplies, modes of transportation outside our feet, vaccinations, modern science, modern art, etc.

Just because something is modern doesn't make it bad. Overuse of those things can be. This diet has been labled a fad. Medical groups said it. It isn't even agreed that the basis of this diet is right in an evolutionary sense. I'm fine that you don't want to show medical studies about your diet, but you are the one who opened this to discussion. San and I both said our views. If others wish try try this, that is their call but we had both wanted to be sure that ALL the info is given and not just a one sided claim.


PS: Aren't most of your clients already in pretty good shape. Based on the research of you (if you are him) then you help MMA fighters. We aren't exactly talking everyday people here.

 

[Coach Palfrey]

Neither was cleaned water, medical supplies, modes of transportation outside our feet, vaccinations, modern science, modern art, etc.

Just because something is modern doesn't make it bad. Overuse of those things can be. This diet has been labled a fad. Medical groups said it. It isn't even agreed that the basis of this diet is right in an evolutionary sense. I'm fine that you don't want to show medical studies about your diet, but you are the one who opened this to discussion. San and I both said our views. If others wish try try this, that is their call but we had both wanted to be sure that ALL the info is given and not just a one sided claim.


PS: Aren't most of your clients already in pretty good shape. Based on the research of you (if you are him) then you help MMA fighters. We aren't exactly talking everyday people here.

I don't know you and you clearly have no idea about what I do as a professional. I have worked in the health and fitness industry for the last 12 years - during which time I have come up against just about every health issue you can imagine. And I have worked dilligently to come up with solutions that work most effectively utilising whatever resources are available.

The fact that I currently work with athletes is neither here nor there. And your assumption that athletes are not the same as everyday people shows a lack of understanding.

 

[FatBlokeSlim]

............... but the NHS is not an authority on nutrition so I don't care what they have to say on the matter.

OK, I'm confused - as a naive Brit, the NHS is kinda dear to my heart - since 1948 it has been the guardian of 50 million or so's peoples health in the UK - I guess I am thick, but I sort of though that their staff of something like 1.3million people , of which about 120,000 are doctors, probably had the odd nutritionist amongst them who, unlike Mr Robb Wolf, dont only have a single claim to fame e.g selling a fad diet to naive people.

Still, you may be right - I must buy a lottery ticket as the odds on that look pretty short in comparison to the 2 people flogging the Paleo diet knowing more than an entire health service!

 

[Coach Palfrey]

OK, I'm confused - as a naive Brit, the NHS is kinda dear to my heart - since 1948 it has been the guardian of 50 million or so's peoples health in the UK - I guess I am thick, but I sort of though that their staff of something like 1.3million people , of which about 120,000 are doctors, probably had the odd nutritionist amongst them who, unlike Mr Robb Wolf, dont only have a single claim to fame e.g selling a fad diet to naive people.

Still, you may be right - I must buy a lottery ticket as the odds on that look pretty short in comparison to the 2 people flogging the Paleo diet knowing more than an entire health service!

I'm also British. The NHS nutrition strategy is steeped in outdated protocols and information. And if you want to quote statistics then it's been estimated that 60% of our adult population is overweight. Presumably a few of those follow current NHS nutrition guidelines. So, I would say that the NHS has failed in it's mission to promote healthy nutrition to the population.

 

[San2]

People are overweight because they are consuming more calories than they burn. It's not a matter of where the calories come from, it's the amount.

If you want to lose weight, you need to consume less calories than you burn. I am aware that you don't agree with that, but that doesn't make it any less true.

I don't care what you say, if this 'diet' that you like to promote comes without counting calories and portion control, it is entirely possible to gain weight on it. Don't even try to say it's not. Too much of ANYTHING will make you gain weight. Restrict the amount you eat, and you'll lose weight.

It's THAT simple.

As for the NHS nutritional guidelines - I am not a fan of the NHS at all, for a lot of reasons, but if a person follows their basic nutritional guidelines and does not suffer from any illness that would affect their weight, they won't be overweight. People who are overweight are that way (in most cases, again, illnesses and medications excluded) because they overeat and consume too many calories. I can't find the part of the NHS nutritional guidelines where it says 'Stuff your face with chocolate and never mind the calories'.

Oh....I have a question, and I am entirely serious about this. Are there any long term studies about the Paleolithic Diet? Anything that goes back, say, ten years? Anybody who has adapted this as a permanent lifestyle and hasn't strayed from it at all?

I am just wondering, because the contents of the diet and the stress that it puts on the digestive system (extremely difficult to break down, digest and utilize) is pretty much certain to have some long term effects. I am just wondering if there is any research into that?

 

[Coach Palfrey]

People are overweight because they are consuming more calories than they burn. It's not a matter of where the calories come from, it's the amount.

If you want to lose weight, you need to consume less calories than you burn. I am aware that you don't agree with that, but that doesn't make it any less true.

I don't care what you say, if this 'diet' that you like to promote comes without counting calories and portion control, it is entirely possible to gain weight on it. Don't even try to say it's not. Too much of ANYTHING will make you gain weight. Restrict the amount you eat, and you'll lose weight.

It's THAT simple.

As for the NHS nutritional guidelines - I am not a fan of the NHS at all, for a lot of reasons, but if a person follows their basic nutritional guidelines and does not suffer from any illness that would affect their weight, they won't be overweight. People who are overweight are that way (in most cases, again, illnesses and medications excluded) because they overeat and consume too many calories. I can't find the part of the NHS nutritional guidelines where it says 'Stuff your face with chocolate and never mind the calories'.

Oh....I have a question, and I am entirely serious about this. Are there any long term studies about the Paleolithic Diet? Anything that goes back, say, ten years? Anybody who has adapted this as a permanent lifestyle and hasn't strayed from it at all?

I am just wondering, because the contents of the diet and the stress that it puts on the digestive system (extremely difficult to break down, digest and utilize) is pretty much certain to have some long term effects. I am just wondering if there is any research into that?

I've been eating a Paleolithic diet for over ten years and I'm doing ok. Plus, man survived for tens of thousands of years following the same principles.

You mention that it's difficult to break down and utilise foods on the Paleo diet - I'm not even sure that we're talking about the same diet anymore. I'm not advocating a diet excessively high in protein or fat and I eat large quantities of fruit and vegetables. I've never had any digestive problems of any sort.

My point is that the source of the calories is ultimately a very important thing as all foods are digested at differing speeds. Calories in vs calories out is flawed as it doesn't take this into account.

 

[Jericho]

If they want to know more about this diet plan, they will do the research. We have had this fight about this fad diet (and I will continue using that word since it has been labeled as such) with other before and I'm sure it will come up again. Nothing good is coming out of this. If you might have noticed, the only ones really discussing this plan is the ones against it and one new member supporting it. If there are people out there who wants to do this thing dispite the arguments then that is their choice.

 

[Iain1974]

I don't think calories in vs out is flawed but must agree that rate of digestion is often ignored. I wonder if it truly tips the balance in diet.

 

[Coach Palfrey]

If they want to know more about this diet plan, they will do the research. We have had this fight about this fad diet (and I will continue using that word since it has been labeled as such) with other before and I'm sure it will come up again. Nothing good is coming out of this. If you might have noticed, the only ones really discussing this plan is the ones against it and one new member supporting it. If there are people out there who wants to do this thing dispite the arguments then that is their choice.

We'll, in the interests of my original question, perhaps people can comment on their experiences of the diet - ie I would like to hear from people who have tried it (lets say for a period of 6 months or so) and have some feedback regarding that experience.

Knowledge isn't power, use is power.

 

[Spinner19641]

I follow something similar to the Paleo diet more by accident inasmuch as I don't tend to eat processed foods or a lot of dairy and wheat based carbs (because I don't like them much).

However, I DO eat potatos, drink low fat milk and throw in some bread if I need a quick snack. And I won't get religious and not enjoy a meal out.

What I didn't understand from the last discussion about Paleo (which you never finished) was why it has to be so strict to derive benefits.

Surely the bulk of the benefits are derived through a diet high in natural unprocessed foods without having to get all fussy over whether you can have a potato or slice of bread or some dairy. The question is to what degree must you adhere to the paleo rules to derive the benefits?

PS. Although the NHS can be a pain in the butt I don't think anyone should casually write off the work and advice of such a large and often capable (but not always) health service.

 

[Coach Palfrey]

I follow something similar to the Paleo diet more by accident inasmuch as I don't tend to eat processed foods or a lot of dairy and wheat based carbs (because I don't like them much).

However, I DO eat potatos, drink low fat milk and throw in some bread if I need a quick snack. And I won't get religious and not enjoy a meal out.

What I didn't understand from the last discussion about Paleo (which you never finished) was why it has to be so strict to derive benefits.

Surely the bulk of the benefits are derived through a diet high in natural unprocessed foods without having to get all fussy over whether you can have a potato or slice of bread or some dairy. The question is to what degree must you adhere to the paleo rules to derive the benefits?

PS. Although the NHS can be a pain in the butt I don't think anyone should casually write off the work and advice of such a large and often capable (but not always) health service.

I completely agree that the bulk of the benefits are derived through a general adherence to the diets principles. I still have my days where I eat other foods in moderation - mainly when I have little other choice.

But, in my experience, the results come from a general elimination of certain foods rather than consuming everything in moderation. Above all I'm advocating a diet of unprocessed, non crop foods - I think similar to yourself.

Maybe the fact that I've called it Paleo is a mistake.

 

[Spinner19641]

I completely agree that the bulk of the benefits are derived through a general adherence to the diets principles. I still have my days where I eat other foods in moderation - mainly when I have little other choice.

But, in my experience, the results come from a general elimination of certain foods rather than consuming everything in moderation. Above all I'm advocating a diet of unprocessed, non crop foods - I think similar to yourself.

Maybe the fact that I've called it Paleo is a mistake.

We might eat similar foods but I think we do it for very different reasons.

In fact someone in my team, who is struggling badly with PCOS and her weight, asked me to provide her with my approach to diet and exercise. She took the programme I wrote for her to her NHS PCOS specialists and they they told her it was an excellent programme and strongly advised her to follow it. If she doesn't they will definitely have to put her on a range of serious medications.

However, the diet I provided included dairy and wholegrains as I would never recommend anyone remove either. I did say she should eat butter, cream and cheese in moderation but the programme specifically says not to count calories and to eat regularly and to do a level of exercise daily (initially around 30 - 40 minutes).

I only recently heard about the Paleo diet. But it was only 4 months ago that I decided I was carb loading with rice so I cut carb and increased my vegetable intake. But in doing so I unintentionally cut calories, concurrently I upped my gym programme, lost weight, got exhausted and got myself into trouble.

It took me 4 weeks and a course of antibiotics to correct that error. I have had to re-feed, rest and add back vegetable based carbs and to snack on bread as needed. (It was also a little fun in that as part of re-feeding I scoffed quite a few packs of cookies!)

So my diet has milk, potatoes, some bread and a little processed food. 90% of my diet is non processed foods but the other 10% is variable. And that combined with exercise keeps me on the leaner side of my optimum weight.

But...

- I don't think it is the only way to manage weight and be healthy.
- It assumes a person has the time to shop and cook (a lot). (I barely have the time so I have fresh food delivered.)
- It doesn't fit well with how the rest of the world is eating. (There's very little I want to eat at the motorway services.)
- And it's not cheap either. Fresh foods cost a lot unless you have time to go to markets (which I don't).
- And it can get a bit boring. I have to eat other foods 10% of the time just to keep my appetite up.

I would not go full Paleo unless someone could explain to me why it is going to better for me than what I do now. And, after my recent error, there would need to be some really solid reasoning.

 

[Coach Palfrey]

We might eat similar foods but I think we do it for very different reasons.

In fact someone in my team, who is struggling badly with PCOS and her weight, asked me to provide her with my approach to diet and exercise. She took the programme I wrote for her to her NHS PCOS specialists and they they told her it was an excellent programme and strongly advised her to follow it. If she doesn't they will definitely have to put her on a range of serious medications.

However, the diet I provided included dairy and wholegrains as I would never recommend anyone remove either. I did say she should eat butter, cream and cheese in moderation but the programme specifically says not to count calories and to eat regularly and to do a level of exercise daily (initially around 30 - 40 minutes).

I only recently heard about the Paleo diet. But it was only 4 months ago that I decided I was carb loading with rice so I cut carb and increased my vegetable intake. But in doing so I unintentionally cut calories, concurrently I upped my gym programme, lost weight, got exhausted and got myself into trouble.

It took me 4 weeks and a course of antibiotics to correct that error. I have had to re-feed, rest and add back vegetable based carbs and to snack on bread as needed. (It was also a little fun in that as part of re-feeding I scoffed quite a few packs of cookies!)

So my diet has milk, potatoes, some bread and a little processed food. 90% of my diet is non processed foods but the other 10% is variable. And that combined with exercise keeps me on the leaner side of my optimum weight.

But...

- I don't think it is the only way to manage weight and be healthy.
- It assumes a person has the time to shop and cook (a lot). (I barely have the time so I have fresh food delivered.)
- It doesn't fit well with how the rest of the world is eating. (There's very little I want to eat at the motorway services.)
- And it's not cheap either. Fresh foods cost a lot unless you have time to go to markets (which I don't).
- And it can get a bit boring. I have to eat other foods 10% of the time just to keep my appetite up.

I would not go full Paleo unless someone could explain to me why it is going to better for me than what I do now. And, after my recent error, there would need to be some really solid reasoning.

I understand it can be a radical change for people to change onto this way of eating but I have found that the benefits and results have been worth it.

Personally, I don't miss the foods that I'm not eating and I have found that my energy levels and ability to maintain a low body fat level has been more successful without them rather than including them in moderation.

But, although I think strict Paleo is the most successful version of this type of diet, if it isn't practical then it obviously needs to be adapted for the individual.

Out of interest, why do you include dairy and wholegrains? For convenience or some other reason?

 

[Spinner19641]

Personally, I don't miss the foods that I'm not eating and I have found that my energy levels and ability to maintain a low body fat level has been more successful without them rather than including them in moderation.

I have achieved exactly the same outcomes while still including dairy, carbs and a level of processed foods such as jams and condiments (with no additives).

But, although I think strict Paleo is the most successful version of this type of diet, if it isn't practical then it obviously needs to be adapted for the individual.

You keep saying there are more benefits but you don't quantify what they are. If I am achieving the same outcomes as you with a less strict diet can you explain what I will achieve above and beyond what I currently achieve?

Out of interest, why do you include dairy and wholegrains? For convenience or some other reason?

I wasn't trying to follow the Paleo diet. Until very recently I had never even heard of the Paleo diet. I simply got tired of people messing with my food.

The UK is big on processed and ready meals. The supermarkets have made an industry of 'value added' food here but I've been to the factories and it is quite disgusting to watch it being made.

I wanted a simple diet I could follow that was balanced, nutritious and where I knew what I was eating. It took awhile to understand what was important versus not and to get the balance of eating for fuel versus a little eating for pleasure.

But the basis of the diet was balance in all ways:

- That meant including dairy, carbs, fats, protein, nutrients. Exactly how much of each has taken trial and error but we've been learning along the way.
- That meant food is not simply fuel and a little of what you fancy is good for you too.
- That meant eating enough to support everything I want to do which includes a solid exercise programme. And knowing if I change my exercise programme that I may need to adjust my diet (recent learning!).

My diet has nothing to do with the Paleo diet other than it shares a few basic principles such as processed versus natural foods.


The only other comment I would like to add is that I think people need to be careful when they provide any diet advice on a website. You have no idea who is reading the posts. Sure, most of us know to take the web with a grain of salt but this site attracts some very young or vulnerable readers looking for answers.

I honestly think it is very dangerous to suggest to women in particular to avoid dairy. The long term risks to a womans health are significant.

 

[Coach Palfrey]

I have achieved exactly the same outcomes while still including dairy, carbs and a level of processed foods such as jams and condiments (with no additives).



You keep saying there are more benefits but you don't quantify what they are. If I am achieving the same outcomes as you with a less strict diet can you explain what I will achieve above and beyond what I currently achieve?



I wasn't trying to follow the Paleo diet. Until very recently I had never even heard of the Paleo diet. I simply got tired of people messing with my food.

The UK is big on processed and ready meals. The supermarkets have made an industry of 'value added' food here but I've been to the factories and it is quite disgusting to watch it being made.

I wanted a simple diet I could follow that was balanced, nutritious and where I knew what I was eating. It took awhile to understand what was important versus not and to get the balance of eating for fuel versus a little eating for pleasure.

But the basis of the diet was balance in all ways:

- That meant including dairy, carbs, fats, protein, nutrients. Exactly how much of each has taken trial and error but we've been learning along the way.
- That meant food is not simply fuel and a little of what you fancy is good for you too.
- That meant eating enough to support everything I want to do which includes a solid exercise programme. And knowing if I change my exercise programme that I may need to adjust my diet (recent learning!).

My diet has nothing to do with the Paleo diet other than it shares a few basic principles such as processed versus natural foods.


The only other comment I would like to add is that I think people need to be careful when they provide any diet advice on a website. You have no idea who is reading the posts. Sure, most of us know to take the web with a grain of salt but this site attracts some very young or vulnerable readers looking for answers.

I honestly think it is very dangerous to suggest to women in particular to avoid dairy. The long term risks to a womans health are significant.

I think it's difficult to compare our results as we don't really know anything about one another or the specifics of the variables involved. For eample - I work with Pro athletes and this dietary approach works well for them but their demands, and the demands of others, differ greatly. My approach has always been of a fairly holistic nature - to improve health foremost, and create weightloss as a natural progression of that.

But I'm glad that you have found something that works well for you.

I'm still not sure that I agree with the dairy for health concept though. It does make one wonder how we survived, and evolved, before dairy was commonplace.

 

[Spinner19641]

I'm still not sure that I agree with the dairy for health concept though. It does make one wonder how we survived, and evolved, before dairy was commonplace.

We didn't live as long so our bodies didn't need to last as long.

And we probably derived calcium through other means. For example, the Chinese do not traditionally eat dairy (as in butter, milk or cheese) but they do eat dishes (such as stews) cooked with the meat on the bone so nutrients from the bone and marrow are eaten.

 

[Jericho]

The same could be said of anything. You said you don't know how we lived before domesticating animals for dairy. How did we survive and evolve before medicine? The written language? Science?

Just because it was something wasn't around from the day we started to walk upright doesn't mean it is bad for us.

 

[Coach Palfrey]

We didn't live as long so our bodies didn't need to last as long.

And we probably derived calcium through other means. For example, the Chinese do not traditionally eat dairy (as in butter, milk or cheese) but they do eat dishes (such as stews) cooked with the meat on the bone so nutrients from the bone and marrow are eaten.

When the major causes of death were generally recognised to be either disease or of a violent nature it is difficult to speculate as to the long term effects of a dairy free diet. For example, would we have seen eveidence of osteoporosis in an elderly paleolithic individual?

I agree with your point about the Chinese diet and that there are other sources of calcium available. But I guess it comes back to the convenience issue - do people really want to go to the effort of cooking meat on the bone these days? I enjoy it but I guess it's not for everyone.

 

[Coach Palfrey]

The same could be said of anything. You said you don't know how we lived before domesticating animals for dairy. How did we survive and evolve before medicine? The written language? Science?

Just because it was something wasn't around from the day we started to walk upright doesn't mean it is bad for us.

I'm not suggesting that everything modern is bad for us. I just think that nutrition has developed, in large, based on economic factors rather than health factors ie. our primary concern seems to be how we can feed people as cheaply as possible.

 

[Jericho]

Actually, most of our food was done out of the need to survive. It is easier to survive if you have a food source with you than having to go out and find it all the time.

Guess I feel the science behind this restrictive diet is flawed. Not the reason you lose weight (cause you eat less calories and you exercise more) but the reasoning about we should be eating this food.