Muai Thai or Taekwando

Derwyddon said:
Here is the problem with this entire post: You are acting as if I am responding to the original post, when I was responding to a specific comment and question asked to me. Of course my response to a completely different question sounds ridiculous when applied to the original question.

Did you ever see me say that TKD was better than Muay Thai or the other way around? No, you haven't. YOu are misapplying my answer to another question to try to back up your own argument on a completely seperate question.



So again you are avoiding the point of this thread. Which do YOU think is more effective for Self Defence? You can stop defending TKD the art as a whole, and lets start talking about the OP question shall we. If you dont have an opinion either way, why are you even commenting in this thread.

I was responding more to your comment "They could kill you in a bar". Hardly the most thought out rebuttle to a multipargraph, multipointed debate.
 
Yep, Muy thai in Thailand is insane, lots of serious fighters. Did you win your 2 fights ? :D.

There aren't any serious Muy thau/boxing/judo nearby where I live ( i've checked ), but I do plan on resuming my training one day again, i love that extreme stuff.
Where any of your 4 fights recorded?

I won both, but my first fight was very, very fixed. The problem with foreigners fighting in Thailand, especially in Phuket is that its very much a tourist thing. They pay your opponent to throw a few kicks to rough you up, and then drop after your first powerful swing. Thankfully, I moved to another training camp afterwards and after they see you can hold your own, they give you a real opponent.

My fights in Thailand were recorded. I'll probably post them on here one day. Still need to edit them as there is a wee bit of extra curicular activity on them aswell :p.
 
Honestly with boxing experience I don't think it matters which style you choose as long as you work hard, but I would choose Muay Thai if I were in your position. I like TKD, but because of it's popularity there are tons of schools out just for the money (aka black belt factories) and most of them are sport oriented and that type of thing is probably not nearly as likely with MT.
 
The question DIRECTLY ASKED TO ME:

"Let me just ask you this. How do you think a TKD fighter would do once he gets knocked or wrestled to the ground?"

This is what I was addressing. So according to you, when someone asks me a question I am to reply with an answer to the original post and the original post only regardless of the path of the conversation.

No, you posted this:

Derwyddon said:
Look, you're insane if you think those guys couldn't kill you or some joe shmo in a bar.

In response to my video post.

Are you going to answer my question about SELF DEFENCE, or do you want to continue this pointless conversation about semantics. As you can see, your poor attempt at a rebuttle was directed at my post.
 
I'd have to go with Muai Thai. Simply because you learn to use hands, feet, knees and elbows. Also I believe working out of the clinch is a good thing to know.

On to the WAY overheated TKD / MT debate. I only have one story about a TKD guy. (to be clear I do not know that much about TKD)

I had a friend in high school who was a 4th degree black belt. Knew tons of moves, all kinds of cool stuff. We were out one night, you know, causing trouble. And my buddy gets in a fight.

My friends and I just stared at what ensued.

The "opponent" grabbed my friend in a hockey hold (grabbed the shirt at the collar) and punched and ran so my friend was getting punched and pushed backwards. Then he fell down. His opponent put his knees on his shoulders and pounded my buddy's face until he got tired. Then he got up, called my buddy a punk and walked away.

We did not help him during the fight, we just stood there, watching, as someone who is supposed to be good, got beat by the most basic move in all fighting.

If we are talking about fighting on the street, here is my plan.

1. Run away - because, what do I want to fight for?

If I can't get away -

1. Poke at the eyes
2. Knee the crotch
3. strike at the throat
4. Use a rock, a chair, or anything else that is lying around to increase my chances
5. Stab the friggin' guy if the option is available.
6. Shoot the guy if the option is available
7. Twist and try to break fingers
8. Whatever it takes to put the guy down

Why - Thats how it works. If I ever get in a fight (which is unlikely at best) the goal is to injure or kill my opponent before they do the same to me.

So as we can see. Anything in "real life" is going to be different than the "sport" of martial arts. Any "real" martial arts that are used by the military, police, or others in a similar line of work, are tailored to the weapons and model after real and common situations. It is not the military learning TKD.
 
Very good post bro.

People that do MA, just so they can fight in the street are doing it for the wrong reasons. I choose Muay Thai because it is fun, intense, basic and easy to learn. There is great quality control and I love it. I didn't do it so I could become the next Street Fighter, in fact, I've only ever been in a dozen fights outside the ring in my life.

Avoiding the fight is always the best bet. Usually, if you tell them you are not looking for trouble and shake their hand, you become friends 10 mintues later. You'll be buying eachother beers and singing your favourite songs in no time.

Also, there is always the problem with the law when it comes to maist fighting, especially if you use a particularly nasty move. My mate got into a fight last year and elbowed the guy unconcious. It was a very basic MT move, but the police wanted to pin GBH on him. Thankfully, due to witness statements, my mate was aquited, but it could of ruined his life just as easily.

If you cant talk your way out of a fight, then yes, it is useful to have a good fighting style to back you up, but dont do one just because you want to fight in the street.
 
Where has Tribal gone?

I still need a few things from you.

1. Where is your proof that most of the worlds military learn TKD?
2. How exactly would you kill someone in a "street fight" with TKD?

And Derwyddon.

Which do you think is more effective at Self Defence? Muay Thai or TKD?

The Gauntlet has been thrown down. ;)
 
My son just tested for his yellow belt in Taekwondo and did great. There is a lot of practice and discipline involved. I have gone to each and every one of his classes and I practice with him everyday. They also spar each other. There are many more things to be gained than just trying to learn to kick someone's ass. I think you would do well to take just to learn a little more about it firstly and secondly to gain a little more respect and tolerance toward others. Just my 2 cents.
That's right. I never engage in style X versus style Y discussions unless there is blatant misinformation.
 
Tribal, since you have obviously been in this thread and read my challange to you, your silence is obviously stating that you have no idea what you are talking about and cant back up your claims. In future, before you make such an obviously false post, dont push the submit button till you can at least back up your claims. I WILL ask for sources.

This isn't a Style vs Style debate. Thoes involve "Which would win" questions. This is actually a SELF DEFENCE question and you are more than welcome to post INTELLIGENTLY THOUGHT OUT retorts to my other posts. The original poster asked which was more effective at self defence. Why do I have to keep updating people on the topic of this thread, can't adults these days read?!? If you cant take a few critisisms about your style, maybe you aren't confident enough in it to begin with. Why is that?

The purpose of this thread is to list Pros and Cons of the two styles and debate which is the most effective for Self Defence. If you are not articulate enough, then just say so and we will move on. All you have done so far is make some childish comment that you could easily kill someone that attacked you. You still have yet explained how you would do this. Care to enlighten us as I'm sure I'm not the only one confused by your remark.
 
If your motive is street-fighting or to show off, taekwondo or any martial art is not for you. Showing a demonstration video from youtube is a farce just like showing a karate (or any other martial art) dude breaking ice.

What I learned in the self-defence class of taekwondo would enable me to easily kill someone if the worst came to the worst but that is not why i learned it. When being taught martial arts they should tell you that your skills are not to be used for street-fighting or showing off. Discipline and self-control are also taught alongside self-defence.

Seeing some of you have a lot to learn, I would not wish to partake in any further indisciplined discussion if you want to pursue martial arts with the wrong motive.

Spartan300 I don't know how old you are mentally/physically but seeing the way you are digging out olympic sparring as "proof" I will not engage in any further discussion. If you can read what is in bold fine, if not wait for the cows to come home.

See Ya!
 
I can't beleive what it is I am reading here.....


I would like to chime in, but the sad fact...appears...that I will only be confronted as one who doesn't know WTF I am talking about.


Thus, I won't.


Not pointing fingers at anyone, but this is a sad collection of thoughts within this thread. For those that have truely practiced a form of MA, I'm surely you are shaking your head in disbelief as I am.
 
I won both, but my first fight was very, very fixed. The problem with foreigners fighting in Thailand, especially in Phuket is that its very much a tourist thing. They pay your opponent to throw a few kicks to rough you up, and then drop after your first powerful swing. Thankfully, I moved to another training camp afterwards and after they see you can hold your own, they give you a real opponent.

My fights in Thailand were recorded. I'll probably post them on here one day. Still need to edit them as there is a wee bit of extra curicular activity on them aswell :p.

Alright, though if you PM'ed the vids its not like I would spread it around :p/
 
The Muay Thai fighter trains with 60%+ power behind his punches and kicks. He wears gloves and so he can punch to his opponents head without worrying about breaking his hands or his training partners nose. They kick hard and never pull them. When they get close, they clinch and throw knees to eachothers body. They keep clinching until they throw the other to the floor.

This is one of the problems with a boxer or UFC or whatever type of fighter from any sanctioned competition style in a self defense situation. If you don't know how to punch without gloves and have not conditioned your hands and wrists and practiced punching bare nuckled you may hurt yourself more than the other guy with the first punch. And if you don't avoid hitting the other guy in the mouth you may end up with a bloody, highly infected hand as well. And once you put on gloves you remove a lot of options: grabbing, poking, penetrating strikes verses blunt trauma strikes, etc.

On the relative ineffectiveness of kicks that use the instep as a stricking point, I have seen more than one knockout from a roundhouse kick to the side of the head as well as some pretty badly bruised ribs, arms and thighs, however any trained martial artist would almost always strike with the ball of the foot, which is a very good penetrating striking surface which can break ribs and effect knockouts with ease.

One last comment. Depending on what school/teacher you study an art at, you can get a very different instruction. I know it is not TKD, but it is another "traditional" MA: I studied Shoryn Ryu Karate for a few years and my teacher and his school had only a dozen or so students at any time. His 2senior students were awesome fighters and even, although I would never advise anyone to do this they actually went to bars and got into fights and never once even got hit by anyone, before putting the other guy to sleep early. My teacher taught the traditional style, with a bent toward pratical self defense. At the peak of my study with him, like any other students who trained with him for a few years, I could take a full force hit with a baseball bat on my shins, forearms, ribs, thighs, etc., basically anywhere except the head, groin and throat without a second thought, like a well conditioned MT fighter with a few years of training would be able to, and I could easily break 1x4's with knuckles or the ball of my foot. Fortunately I never had to defend myself in a real situation, but I did spar and train with people who had, so I think I could have help my own with the average street thug, and I was probably one of his worst students.

Now, my teacher learned the art from the original master in Okinawa and studied there full time for a few years along with another American who happened to open a school in the next town. The other teacher's school had 100's of students and emphasized pushups, running and tournament fighting. I wouldn't have given you 2 cents for the ability of any of his students to be successful in a self defense situation. Two teachers/schools dervied from the same source with very different philosophies and very different results.

My point is, again, there are good teachers/schools and not so good ones in any style/art: choose carefully, or you will waste your time and money.
 
Muay Thai rules!

- No TKD is BEST!

Retort!

- Counter-Retort!

Random insult

- Counter random insult

Comment on looks

- Insult mother

Insult mother's cooking

- TKD Roundhouse kick to the head

Muay Thai clinch knee to the head

- Dead

Dead


There.. I think I summed this up pretty good..
 
I can't say I'm not enjoying some of the stuff I'm reading...

I agree with a lot of people here because modern TKD is watered down contest-points stuff. However, like Derwyddon said, ignorant statements are ignorant statements. Arguing from a "street fight" perspective is one quick way to make them.

A MT clinch is not a good way to beat a leper with a knife, for example :)
 
My jujitsu sensei always told us we should just take the knife with the abs. It's really not a problem if you do some situps.
 
My jiu jitsu teacher tells his kids class to leg kick someone instead of punch them in the face. One will get you sent to the office, the other will make people laugh and shrug it off.

Seriously, "waaa, he leg kicked me!" is not as convincing as a black eye :D
 
I think there's been some petty bickering in this thread.

To the OP-visit what is available to you before making any decisions. Do not go the ones that won't let you participate in a couple of sessions. Do not sign contracts.

My observations based on training and visitations to other schools and just my overviews:
How much you enjoy the classes will determine your success. A few good tricks are better than a bunch of unfamiliar techniques. All styles have bad instructors.

No art is fool proof--I've seen few teachers that teach defense against sand/dirt thrown in eyes, sucker punches, pool cues against the head, brass knuckles to the head, etc. I've seen even less schools that realistically address being confronted with a weapon.

What I'm saying is don't base your opinions on titles. People will hear a few people say "this style is weak" based on a couple of observations and from hearing a few opinions. You'll also hear people endorse other styles because "it's X style man! It's the best, most h4rdk0re."

I will say this...
Years ago I gave up TKD due to being burned out on learning forms. I promised myself I'd never test again if I had to learn any more forms. As you grow older and get more involved, you'll start learning other styles that will blend to your style.

I think two of the most important impacts on self-survival is speed of reaction and you're ability to take a hit. But don't get caught up on the hype of "t3h str33t". There are not evil people lurking around every corner. Forget about the advice of others on this based on the net. Go find out for yourself the quality of the classes.

I don't know if you go to a school or not, but see if they have a wrestling team. It's free and you'll learn some good, practical stuff.
 
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Agree with most of what you said here Evo.

I would add only this:

Ask yourself why it is you want to become active with martial arts. Is defense your main concern?....or is some type of activity and other form of cardio your primary goal? Or, and some may really frown upon this, is your goal to dominate your adversary in the event that you get into a brawl....in which case you must have in your the killer instinct, or the desire to adapt yourself to think this way. I got into MA for many reasons...and I admit that I had opportunities that many here(or any where) simply do not have access to. I have always had the killer instinct within me. When i say killer instinct, I don't really mean the ability to kill....I mean the ability to fight, to accept pain, to deal with blood pooling in your eye's or mouth and the raw ability to survive. For me, I wanted to be as knowledgable as i could be with the various forms I have studied and continue to study. And I commited meself to that form. You have to if you want to succeed...unless you are in it for "fun"....which is fine, also.

Just determine what you want out of it. Do not extnd yourself beyond your present capacity. I have seen folks try to train in a particualr style when they had no clue the basic fundementals of ANY given art form. I have seen some that knew, to some extent, what they were doing, but did not have the ability to take pain. Heck, you see it in the UFC, Pride fighting and in boxing in general. Guy has all kinds of talent, then gets hit and goes down fast. It's a fact of life, some can over come this...many can not.

Think. Commit. Succeed.
 
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