Lifting Question

angelicrock

angelicrock

New member
I do lifting about 2-3 times a week during my gym routine and my question is this: what are the benefits of free weights vs. machines?

I always hear that free weights are good because you are forced to stabilize the weight. Machines on the other hand, I use when I am alone at the gym so I do not need to risk injury. But, what are the benefits to each, if any?
 
Free weights = good
machines = bad
 
I may have over simplified. I will assume you are a novice and that your primary goal is weight loss and muscle retention. So for you what would likely be best is a full body workout using compound exercises

This is a good one to start on
 
I think machines are good for beginners. It helps with form and builds a good foundation without stressing stabilizing muscles.
 
It really depends. Sometimes machines are the right place to start. Other times free weights are the right place to start. I'll say that free weights are ideal and if one is capable of starting with them, they should. But that doesn't make it the right first step into weight training in all situations.

I don't think machines "help with form" though.
 
I dont think I am a novice in terms of lifting but I do think I lack in knowledge of mechanics. I will review the links posted and hopefully find out more.

So far though, it seems like stability is the only real benefit of free weights.
 
I agree with Steve that most machines will actually distort your range of motion and will do nothing to help balance. I run fitness bootcamps and in my boot camps we start with a foundation of body weight training (squats, push ups, modified pull ups, step ups, etc), then build upon those movements using free weights or other implements (dumbbells, kettlebells, bands, sandbags, etc).

I just think that most of the machines made were meant for two things:

Rehabilitation of a specific injury (early rehab) or
a very expensive coat rack.
 
I took a look at the 5x5 program and it is similar to what I am already doing which might be a good thing. The difference I noticed in the program is that the workout is essentially the same every week on each specific day. That type of structure isn't the way I like to do things but it does give me an idea on planning.

The link posted by Steve was a good read and definately answered my question. However, since originally posting this I have come up with another question.

I am not sure how experienced the trainers are at my gym (I have no reason at this point to doubt them) but I did over hear them on a few occasions talk about how lifting is better to do before cardio. Something about it will help with the fat loss if you do lifting before major cardio.

So, is this true? I did a search on Google and found many different opinions (though I can't say every site looked reputable).

Thanks again guys.
 
I prefer to lift before cardio.

In some instances with clients who need more cardio work, it's vice versa though.

There isn't a right or wrong.

There's only a right given the context of your situation.

If you don't have a lot of fat to lose, I suggest lifting before cardio.
 
I usually do cardio before lifting but I think I will try out lifting before cardio for a few weeks and see if there is a noticable difference.

If not I will continue as is mainly because of the amount of people lifting at the gym when I get there vs. when I am done with my 40 minutes of cardio.
 
The premise it this:

The closer you get to a 'normal' bf%, the more likely it is that you will lose muscle while dieting. To offset this potential, eating adequate protein and lifting weights effectively become much more important.

Weights are more intensive, generally speaking, than cardio. So doing weights before cardio, when your energy is max, is logical.

A fatter person is more concerned with expending energy than maintaining muscle. Muscle loss isn't really a concern for a fatter person. So they would prioritize things differently to focus on metabolic work instead of high intensity work.

Make sense?
 
I get it. So the idea is to maximize energy output in the area that yields the best results for the ultimate goal? So my goal is to gain muscle and lose what is left of the fat I had, meaning that lifting gets the energy priority.

As far as eating habits are concerned, should I now add additional calories/protein to my diet since I am now trying to gain muscle, burn fat and not necessarily lose weight? Or, am I taking the same weight loss calories and adding more protein to that?

Hopefully I am understanding everything correctly.
 
angelicrock said:
I get it. So the idea is to maximize energy output in the area that yields the best results for the ultimate goal?
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Hmmm, sort of.

Look at it this way. When you have a lot of fat to lose, expending the most energy as possible every time you exercise is primary. High energy exercise expenditure comes from metabolic work. Think cardio or high rep, low rest weight training. There really isn't a need for worrying about putting true strength training in the primary spotlight since chances of losing muscle are slim to none when you've got all this fat.

Actually, let me go copy and paste something I typed in another thread that is related to this:

There is no either/or, good/bad, better/worse.

How you exercise is completely dependent on your current state and your goals.

Here's an example for you:

You have two women both looking to lose fat. One is 300 lbs and the other is 130 lbs.

In terms of weight lifting, the heavier woman would probably benefit more from the circuit type of training where you use high volumes of work using lighter weights and short rest. In this event, you're turning it more or less into another form of cardiovascular exercise with a hint of strength training. The reason this would be optimal for her is pretty simple: at this stage in the game, burning the most amount of calories is going to be the primary factor that will contribute to weight loss and circuit training is going to accomplish that better than your traditional strength training routine of heavier weights, lower reps, and more rest.

The lighter woman might be better off (IMO definitely would be better off) by sticking with the more traditional strength training stuff I mentioned above. Not b/c of caloric expenditure so much, but more for what this type of stimulus/training does to the body. Primarily, it triggers muscle maintenance.... it gives your body a reason to hold on to the muscle you currently have. The closer you get to an ideal weight, the more probable muscle loss becomes. This is an important concept. (a) Muscle keeps your metabolism nice and healthy and (b) I think one of the major things most women looking to get tone do wrong is move to lighter and lighter weights and higher and higher reps following the misconception that this sort of training causes toning.

Toning is a function of fat loss and muscle maintenance. Losing weight is easy, just create a caloric deficit. But genetically average people, especially women, who aren't carrying a lot of fat carry the big risk of losing muscle if they don't take precautionary action; one of those things is proper, traditional strength training. Which, as I said above, goes against what gets passed around traditionally as good advice.

In essence, for the lighter woman, weight lifting transforms from something that gets your heart rate going and expends calories to more of something that triggers muscle maintenance. For her, diet and cardio will be the primary players in terms of establishing the caloric deficit. Don't get me wrong, traditional strength training burns calories too, but it's primary purpose in the 'program' isn't that.
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As far as eating habits are concerned, should I now add additional calories/protein to my diet since I am now trying to gain muscle, burn fat and not necessarily lose weight? Or, am I taking the same weight loss calories and adding more protein to that?
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First you need to be careful. It sounds like you're expecting to build muscle and burn fat simultaneously. While this can happen, it's highly unlikely. The fatter you are and/or the more untrained you are, the greater the chances of concurrent muscle growth and fat loss.

If you aren't in that realm or population, chances are slim that you'll notice appreciable muscle gain and fat loss.

With that said, your best bet is to focus on one goal at a time. If you're content with your level of body fat right now and you want to work at improving your muscle mass, it's time to eat a caloric surplus.

A surplus of calories (energy) is what fuels or facilitates the extra muscle growth. If there is no surplus, there is no growth, as you can't create something out of nothing.

People lose sight of the idea, however, that this is a touch&feel process, big time. The idea is to eat just enough over maintenance to adequately fuel growth while not so much that you are shuttling a ton of excess calories above and beyond what is needed for growth into fat stores.

Make sense?

What are your stats, btw? You may have said them already but I'm too lazy to go back and look while typing, lol.

In any event, slowly ramping up your calories until you're realizing growth is what you want to do.

It's also important to note that anytime you work at adding muscle, there is going to be a corresponding gain in fat. As I noted above though, the goal is to minimize this.
 
I am 5'6 160-165lbs (it fluctuates within 5lbs each time i weigh myself). I am not sure what my body fat % is as I havent calculated it in a while but I imagine it's about average.

Based on what you said I think I need to decide which to work on first. Fat loss or muscle building. I havent really had too much muscle in my life so I assumed you could do both at the same time. I am thinking losing the rest of the fat is probably the better and easier thing for me to do since it sounds like my current workout routine is geared more towards it. Id say that maybe in a month or so I should be at a comfortable physique to where I can try and alter my training for muscle building.

Right now my routine has been cardio for 40 minutes (usually running or eliptical when I feel my legs getting too much pressure) then I do weights. Usually with weights I do 3-5 lifts on 2-3 different muscles and about 12-20 reps per set. The amount of sets I do depends on the muscle and the weight I am doing. When I finish my lifting I do a small ab circuit with leg lifts, situps, planks and various other things. I try to work all the abs at least a little each time but try to focus a majority on one specific part of the abs each day.

I go to the gym about 4 times a week but I try to make it 6.

I don't know if that helps in determining what I am doing and how I am doing stat wise but it's about as much information as I can think of off the top of my head. :)

Ill see if the nutritionist is available today to tell me my body fat percentage. I have no idea how to determine that on my own.
 
angelicrock said:
I am 5'6 160-165lbs (it fluctuates within 5lbs each time i weigh myself). I am not sure what my body fat % is as I havent calculated it in a while but I imagine it's about average.

Based on what you said I think I need to decide which to work on first. Fat loss or muscle building.
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Yea, that's pretty much it.

If you haven't lifted seriously before, I would focus on losing fat (caloric deficit) while adding in a good, balanced strength training routine.

There's a good chance you will actually gain some muscle while losing fat. Ride that out until you see noticable changes in your physique. And start bulking (energy surplus) once you feel comfortable with your body leanness.

I havent really had too much muscle in my life so I assumed you could do both at the same time.
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Well here's something to think about carrying right along from my words above. As you lose fat and maintain (maybe gain) muscle, you will probably be surprises how much muscle you actually have. People never realize that there is a great, ripped body residing under all of our fat.

And for some, this will be enough to not only keep them content, but also happy.

Once they lose the fat, it's just a matter of maintenance and finding new ways to enjoy the lifestyle.

For others though, like myself, it's a never-ending process of losing fat with a deficit, than bulking up muscle with a surplus until you accumulate *enough* fat that you're uncomfortable, and then cutting down again with a deficit with the intention of losing the new fat but maintaining the new muscle... so on and so forth.

I am thinking losing the rest of the fat is probably the better and easier thing for me to do since it sounds like my current workout routine is geared more towards it.
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I would agree.

Though at this stage in the game I think it wise to have a good strength training routine thrown into the mix. And I vaguely remember you having one so you're well on your way. Sorry, I'm actually having this very same conversation on another forum as well as another on in PM right now so I'm getting cross-wired about who's doing what, lol.

Id say that maybe in a month or so I should be at a comfortable physique to where I can try and alter my training for muscle building.
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Personally I never put a timeframe on it. I cut until I'm content and I bulk until I'm content. However long that takes, so be it. I avoid rigidity at pretty much all costs.

In addition, I like experimenting. So how I cut down the previous cut probably isn't going to be how I cut down this cut. And how I bulked up the previous bulk probably isn't going to be how I bulk up this bulk. So each time takes a lot of experimenting and adjusting.

That's why I like this lifestyle. It's a game where, if you're consistent and motivated, you always win. And the prize is health and a good body. Can't beat that!

Right now my routine has been cardio for 40 minutes (usually running or eliptical when I feel my legs getting too much pressure) then I do weights. Usually with weights I do 3-5 lifts on 2-3 different muscles and about 12-20 reps per set. The amount of sets I do depends on the muscle and the weight I am doing. When I finish my lifting I do a small ab circuit with leg lifts, situps, planks and various other things. I try to work all the abs at least a little each time but try to focus a majority on one specific part of the abs each day.

I go to the gym about 4 times a week but I try to make it 6.
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It would help to see exactly what your split is each day in terms of weight training. In truth though, it's not real important. I can tell you right now I think you'd be better served with something like a total body routine that you do 2-3 times per week. Each day doesn't have to be identical but in each you are hitting all the major muscles.

I'd also suggest dropping down the reps a bit. Maybe 8-12. Which means you can lift more weight. Less reps = ability to push higher weights.

But lifting to failure, regardless of rep range, is not something you want to be doing.

On the days that you lift, I would actually do cardio after. If through diet and lifting before cardio you aren't heading in the right direction, I would look first at your nutrition. Then, if it seems like all of that is completely in check, I would look to see if you should maybe add a cardio session in someplace or change 1 maybe 2 of the sessions.


Ill see if the nutritionist is available today to tell me my body fat percentage. I have no idea how to determine that on my own.
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Meh, it's not that important. I wouldn't sweat it.
 
As per your advice I did weights first yesterday and it was very different. I noticed that by waiting on the cardio until after the weight excercises I was able to lift slightly more weight. On curls I could do 5lbs more per arm. On the bench I was able to add 10lbs comfortably. This could also be attributed to having built some muscle but it felt good either way.

Though at the end of the workout I was too tired to do 40 minutes or cardio so I cut it back to 15 minutes at a slightly higher speed. I had to force myself to get through the cardio but I feel good about my workout lastnight.

The one thing I still have trouble with is getting enough calories. I think I may need to start taking a protein shake or something high in calories each day. Usually, I am struggling to get the last 200-500 calories each day. I eat a lot of really low cal stuff throughout the day but it just isnt enough. I definately notice a difference in performance when I get the calories I need. I dont fatigue as fast and I am much more pleasant to be around.

Overall though, I feel good about what I have been doing. I appreciate the help.
 
angelicrock said:
As per your advice I did weights first yesterday and it was very different. I noticed that by waiting on the cardio until after the weight excercises I was able to lift slightly more weight. On curls I could do 5lbs more per arm. On the bench I was able to add 10lbs comfortably. This could also be attributed to having built some muscle but it felt good either way.
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When did you start lifting weights?

Also, yea, it's normal to feel stronger when you go into the strength training 'fresh.'

Though at the end of the workout I was too tired to do 40 minutes or cardio so I cut it back to 15 minutes at a slightly higher speed. I had to force myself to get through the cardio but I feel good about my workout lastnight.
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This is why, when I'm cutting, I seperate my cardio into different sessions. I usually cut using a 3 day per week total body strength training routine and I'll do cardio on my off days.

Or I'll do cardio in the mornings and lift in the evenings.

Or whatever.

The one thing I still have trouble with is getting enough calories.
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How many calories are you shooting for?

Why are you having trouble?

What are you eating?

I think I may need to start taking a protein shake or something high in calories each day.
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Protein shakes generally aren't high in calories. Most have 100ish.

Unless you do a weight gainer or meal replacement shake.

Usually, I am struggling to get the last 200-500 calories each day. I eat a lot of really low cal stuff throughout the day but it just isnt enough.
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Still interested in seeing what your typical day looks like but here's part of your problem. You eat a large volume of low calories stuff. It fills you up but doesn't provide the energy.

So work in some more fat, that's always the easiest way to bump up cals when you're having trouble.
 
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