Sport is an insulin spike still necessary post workout when cutting?

Sport Fitness
today I had about 250 calories of white rice with my protein shake.. also I had probably 60 calories of sugar in my protein shake. So I definitely had at least a 2:1 ratio.

I don't know if rice has Dextrose and maltodextrose in it though. Is rice a good thing to eat with the post workout meal? I know it has a very high GI.


Also I don't understand this whole idea really. Just because rice has a high GI why would that allow the protein to get rushed into the system as well? Wouldn't just the rice be rushed into the system? Is this proven stuff or is it just theory? Is it widely accepted?
 
High amounts of hi-gi carbs turn off your bodys ability to look for muscle or fat as energy, and will drive the protein you ingest quickly into your muscles rather than it being burnt off as energy

therefore your muscle have a good amount of nutrients to start recovering from your workout, something you NEED whether you are cutting fat or bulking up.

a ratio of 2:1 carb:protein is common, but it has been suggested 1:1 is enough carbs to induce the insulin spike.

White rice will induce an insulin spike but is neither nice to have Post workout nor is the most effective way of doing so. Firstly, it takes a lot of breaking down, and secondly white rice is a lot worse for you than most would realise.

Maltodextrin and dextrose are quite pure sugars and act quickly. They are easy to drink when mixed in with protein although dextrose is sweeter and you may want to mix maltodextrin and dextrose to make it not overly sweet. they are also cheap, easy to prepare and blend well. you can buy either in large bags for a few dollars/quid each. Happy days all round.

Just trust that you need carbs post workout. I didnt for a long time but chnaging my mindset was one of the best decisions ive made. your body needs fuel before and after training and even if you are looking to slim down, you need to ensure your muscle is fuel correctly to prevent lean tissue breakdown, to make sure your ready for your next training session, and to keep muscle to burn up kcals the rest of the day.

on a side note wherever you can shun white rice or bread. it is mostly bleached or processed and always go for the cleanest option possible. go for brown rice and wholegrain bread (or cut out bread full stop!?).

i understand i sounds a little contradictory to say eat natural, low gi foods all the time EXCEPT after training but training puts the body under great stress and so needs exceptional nutrition to recover.
 
Put simply.

Yes it is proved, a high gi enhances amino acid uptake in muscle. No need to know why but would simply be the cause of more amino acid transporters via insulin.

Low Gi is recommened all the time except during exercise if long duration, and post workout or exercise to quickly replenish glycogen.
 
benelson101 said:
High amounts of hi-gi carbs turn off your bodys ability to look for muscle or fat as energy, and will drive the protein you ingest quickly into your muscles rather than it being burnt off as energy

therefore your muscle have a good amount of nutrients to start recovering from your workout, something you NEED whether you are cutting fat or bulking up.

a ratio of 2:1 carb:protein is common, but it has been suggested 1:1 is enough carbs to induce the insulin spike.

White rice will induce an insulin spike but is neither nice to have Post workout nor is the most effective way of doing so. Firstly, it takes a lot of breaking down, and secondly white rice is a lot worse for you than most would realise.

Maltodextrin and dextrose are quite pure sugars and act quickly. They are easy to drink when mixed in with protein although dextrose is sweeter and you may want to mix maltodextrin and dextrose to make it not overly sweet. they are also cheap, easy to prepare and blend well. you can buy either in large bags for a few dollars/quid each. Happy days all round.

Just trust that you need carbs post workout. I didnt for a long time but chnaging my mindset was one of the best decisions ive made. your body needs fuel before and after training and even if you are looking to slim down, you need to ensure your muscle is fuel correctly to prevent lean tissue breakdown, to make sure your ready for your next training session, and to keep muscle to burn up kcals the rest of the day.

on a side note wherever you can shun white rice or bread. it is mostly bleached or processed and always go for the cleanest option possible. go for brown rice and wholegrain bread (or cut out bread full stop!?).

i understand i sounds a little contradictory to say eat natural, low gi foods all the time EXCEPT after training but training puts the body under great stress and so needs exceptional nutrition to recover.
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thanks for taking the time to explain things in detail, rep given to you.

You said I can buy big bags of dextrose and multidextrose for really cheap?? You weren't just referring to table sugar were you? Where can I buy dextrose and multidextrose for real cheap? And what would it be called?
 
no worries, sometimes its just about trusting in something and taking the plunge, and the more you do all this the more you'll want to experiment and learn.

its not table sugar, its just called dextrose or maltodextrin. im in the uk and i buy all mine online (ive put the link below so you get the general idea). i dont know the best site for the US. some bigger stores will sell maltodextrin with home brewing equipment.
 
realworksuks said:
today I had about 250 calories of white rice with my protein shake.. also I had probably 60 calories of sugar in my protein shake. So I definitely had at least a 2:1 ratio.

I don't know if rice has Dextrose and maltodextrose in it though. Is rice a good thing to eat with the post workout meal? I know it has a very high GI.


Also I don't understand this whole idea really. Just because rice has a high GI why would that allow the protein to get rushed into the system as well? Wouldn't just the rice be rushed into the system? Is this proven stuff or is it just theory? Is it widely accepted?
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Rice is fine.

Instant rice has as GI score in the high 80's and short grain white rice in the 70's - both are high GI scores and just what you need to get that insulin spike you're looking for. A high GI score is anything above 70. So, I'm not sure why you would need to add Dextrose and maltodextrose or table sugar in addition to rice.

You can't have rice with your shake each time, so on other days, simply have some ' hi GI score snacks ' with your protein shake like plain rice cakes, pretzels, vanilla wafers / graham crackers, jelly beans, a handful of corn / rice Chex, etc. etc.
 
Wrangell said:
Rice is fine.

Instant rice has as GI score in the high 80's and short grain white rice in the 70's - both are high GI scores and just what you need to get that insulin spike you're looking for. A high GI score is anything above 70. So, I'm not sure why you would need to add Dextrose and maltodextrose or table sugar in addition to rice.

You can't have rice with your shake each time, so on other days, simply have some ' hi GI score snacks ' with your protein shake like plain rice cakes, pretzels, vanilla wafers / graham crackers, jelly beans, a handful of corn / rice Chex, etc. etc.
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Well you said rice is fine and benelson said it's not.. who to trust?

If it's fine why did you say I can't have it every time with my shake?
 
I think you are overcomplicating it. Rice I suppose is "fine" compared to having nothing, but dextrose is about the simplest sugar you can get. I bought a 15 pound bag and got it shipped to my door for 22 bucks, can't beat that.
 
What about when you finally reach your goals and are looking to maintain what you have, in that case what should you pwo meal look like?
 
The same. Their is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't consume simple sugars and protein post workout. Whether you are maintaining form, cutting fat, or building muscle, your body needs these vital nutrients after such strenuous activity.
 
realworksuks said:
Well you said rice is fine and benelson said it's not.. who to trust?

If it's fine why did you say I can't have it every time with my shake?
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Benelson objected to white rice because
- it isn't that convenient to bring with you and eat PWO.
- it takes some breaking down (imo not that significant, it doesn't have as high GI as dextrose but it is still high enough)
- it's "processed and bleached, isn't clean", etc (I'm not sure that's correct and I personally never really bought into the organic food trend anyway)

And I think Wrangell meant you can't drink it with every PWO shake for practical reasons, like Benelson also mentioned. I personally don't see the reason to bother with white rice either, dextrose and malto is cheap, don't spoil, don't need cooking, easy and fast to get in you, what's not to like?
 
realworksuks said:
Well you said rice is fine and benelson said it's not.. who to trust?

If it's fine why did you say I can't have it every time with my shake?
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You can if you want ...I simply suggested you can't have it ' every time ' only from the perspective of wanting some variety in your choice of carb you want to consume.

And yes, rice is fine....but, is it ' optimal ' ? Perhaps not. There are probably other options with higher GI scores than rice. But then again, so what. Will a carb as part of PWO nutrition with a high GI score of 70+ give you significantly ' bigger muscles ' than a carb with a GI score of 80+ or 90 + ? I highly doubt it.:)

So, the moral of the story should be that you have put all this PWO nutrition / ' hi GI score ' into perspective and focus more on ensuring you in fact DO have some PWO nutrition, and when you do, that you have a good carb / protein balance in your PWO nutrition. Obsessing whether or not the carbs have a ' hi GI score ' of 78, 84, 92 etc. etc. is just splitting hairs IMO and really ' misses the forest for the trees ' IMO.
 
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Sorry to bump an old thread.

I picked up some dextrose and have been using it for about a month now. I mix about 40-50 carbs from dextrose in my protein powder after my workout.

I just have a question though..

I want to replace 25 of those carbs with a banana in my shake and then cut the dextrose in half. Would I still get the insulin spike that is necessary post workout? Or is this a bad idea? If so, why?
 
snorkles said:
what are the foods that spike insuline pleasE? thanks. is it a yes or no regarding this question please.
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In most cases, it's foods that are categorized as " High GLycemic Index " foods are the ones that optimize bumps in insulin.

" GLycemic Index " has scores ranging from 0 - 100+...with 100 being a very " High GLycemic Index ". When it comes to enhancing insulin spikes, you want to find foods that have " High GLycemic Index " of about 70 more.

Here are some examples of foods and their respective GI scores...........
 
realworksuks said:
what do you think of my idea though, mix half dextrose and half carbs.. would it still have the same benefit, or not really?
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Well, a post workout meal containing 100% of dextrose ( with a GI score of 100 or so ) as your carbs will likely yield more of an insulin spike than a post workout meal containing 50% from dextrose and 50% from a ripe banana ( which has a moderate GI score ).

However, will the relatively lower insulin spike you get from the dextrose / banana blend significantly impair the rate at which you can absorb amino acids ?

I doubt it. A blend of dextrose and banana should be fine.:)
 
No generally its usefull from muscle gain programmes as it provides quick energy and increased amino acid uptake for muscles.

For losing weight it would be more wise to consume along with other recommended foods a carb diet that is low GI, providing a more stable source of energy supply that will hopefully keep you fuller for longer.
 
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