Huge Plateau, Need Ideas

[biggestloser105]

I don't know if eating that low -- 1200 -- is healthy for the intensity of the exercise that I am doing (the spinning, especially).



For my activity level, my BMR/RMR is right around 2500-2750.

On average (according to my Fitday) I'm burning 2500 a day (with my exercise).

1200 is the minimum recommended amount for a female, starvation mode shouldn't be an issue if you're eating at least 1200. Weight loss is about calories in versus calories out, and the way you are eating now is causing you weight gain rather than loss.

Unless you're making a mistake in calorie counting, it just means that the BMR calculator (which is based on averages, unless you went to a professional who measured your body composition and metabolic rate) does not apply to your body. Maybe you have less muscle mass than average, maybe you have metabolic issues.

Either way, your body seems to need less calories than you are spending and that's why you're not losing weight.

I agree that eating 1200 is no fun, so maybe you could double the time you spend working out. The only way you will start losing weight is if you either eat less or exercise more.

 

[summer123]

I don't know if eating that low -- 1200 -- is healthy for the intensity of the exercise that I am doing (the spinning, especially).



For my activity level, my BMR/RMR is right around 2500-2750.

On average (according to my Fitday) I'm burning 2500 a day (with my exercise).

1200 is too low- or would be for me! I do 7-8 hours of cardio a week and then do additional classes (yoga and etc) and eat 1500kcals and lose weight. I wouldn't cut your calories by more then 25% in one go, it could push your body into a sort of starvation mode where it slows down and works to conserve body fat over muscle and you generally feel shattered and get ill alot (I know as I have done this).

I wouldn't rely on machines to tell you how many calories you burn as machines tend to be wrong. They don't take into consideration the ratio of muscle mass you havem your height (and so BMI, higher then 25, lower then 17.5 and your body works at a different rate) and they don't take into consideration that you can become used to certain exercises if you do them over and over again. Your body becomes efficient at burning calories the more you do a certain exercise and this is why you need to keep the variation going. Change your workout habits every 6-8 weeks.

Eat a balance diet is the best advice. If you notice yourself feeling overly hungry, faint or dizzy then your not eating enough. If you cannot stop yourself bulking your food down at the speed of light when you eat, your not eating enough. If your going to make cuts don't do them by more then 25% of your maintainance diet. I should add the general personal training/nutritionist advice on calorie cuts is to make them at 10-20% as anything more can have detremental effects. However I prefer 25% as a cut and managed just about OK on that. Anything more and I'd have given up or binged and not been able to stop myself. (And this is coming from someone with a past history of anorexia- I do know how to eat nothing!) It is just not a good idea as it messes with your body and you don't lose body fat, you lose more muscle.

 

[biggestloser105]

It is just not a good idea as it messes with your body and you don't lose body fat, you lose more muscle.

This is a bigger issue for someone who is quite lean. If you're not very fat then yes starving yourself will cause you to lose lean mass, but if an obese person eats little they don't have as much issue with lean mass loss (they lose more from fat, and also they have lean mass to lose in terms of skin, tendons, their organs tend to be too big).


I had some of my biggest success losing weight while eating 1200 calories, at the time I also was working out 2-3 hours every day.

I do agree that eating 1200 is no fun, but for me personally it was producing great weight loss results of 3-4lb loss per week (though a good bit of that loss was from working out). I don't eat 1200 calories now, mostly because it is hard, but having done it in the past doesn't seem to have affected my metabolism. Also I have been doing resistance training, and I have become stronger during the course of my weight loss.

On the Biggest Loser show they also recommend contestants eat 1200 calories, and they work out a lot on that show and lose massive amounts of weight. I've seen in numerous sources that eating 1200 calories a day is okay for a woman on a diet, including from an academic nutrition letter.

I also periodically fast (for health reasons, not weight loss reasons), though my fasts never last more than a day. It doesn't seem to have interfered with my weight loss, so far I am about 50 pounds down in 4.5 months. Even going into starvation mode doesn't mean you will stop losing weight, when they do studies on it people don't gain weight on starvation mode, they just don't lose it optimally. And metabolism rebounds once you stop eating starvation calories (unless of course you starved yourself to the point that your muscle all deteriorated).

 

[RichPT]

Hi

Problem with attending the same class every week is that it doesn't address the two things that you need to succeed with fitness/weight loss long term - progression and overload, whats probably happened is you are used to the spinning class and pilates, while great for you, doesn't seem to do to much unless you do a lot of it. rather than spinning, try this...

Get on the treadmill after warming up and stretching and take the speed up to a quick jog. Then, every minute, increase the incline by 1% steadily increasing up to 9% - 10% over 10 minutes. Then decrease by 1% every minute on the way down back to 0% for a further 10 minutes, this should be pretty challenging. Then hit the weights, I would go for Deadlifts/Squats/Lunges 3 x 15 circuit style and Bench Press/Upright Row/Arnold Press/Bicep Curl/Tricep Dip 3 x 15 (I'm a personal trainer rl-personaltrainer.co.uk by the way, I use this sort of thing with my clients to break through plateaus)

Good luck

Rich

 

[Derrick]

In my opinion you should be lifting weights at least twice a week for 30 to 60 minutes each time. Start off light the first two or three weeks and then start lifting moderately heavy so that doing 10 to 15 reps is a challenge. Do two or, better yet, three sets like that for each muscle group. You can do upper body one day and lower body the other day or you can do push exercises one day and pull exercises the other day. You could even do a total body workout both days if you have 60 minutes of time available.

You will need to eat well to help your body repair and build your muscles. Make sure you are getting adequate protein especially. If anything, you could even eat slightly more calories.

I think you would feel much better and start to see results again. Measure your "problem area" every month in addition to weighing yourself. For me its my stomach. If my weight isn't decreasing as fast as I'd like but my stomach is shrinking, I know I'm still heading in the right direction.

No matter what you decide to do with your calories (go up, go down, stay the same) please consider starting a good weight lifting routine and eating adequate amounts of protein.

 

[WineDeer]

Argh! My big long reply was eaten by the Internet.



So, I'll try to summarize my answers to all of you:

Biggestloser105 -- I need to lower my calorie intake, you're right in that regard. More on this below. Exercising more, however, won't make much of a difference, according to my doctor.

Summer123 -- thank you for your suggestions.

RichPT -- My classes show progression. I work out at a studio, not your typical gym. They specialize in those two areas (spinning and pilates) and the teachers show progression (precisely because they know that our bodies get used to it!). I am going to use the treadmill however. I think I need to stop the spinning unless it's for fun.

Derrick -- My boyfriend also thinks I should do weights. I have avoided them because I was using my pilates as my strengthening exercise.

My Doctor's Visit

So, I think it was a great visit. To summarize what we talked about, he thinks that I am eating too many calories.

He also told me that the exercise calories that I burn don't count towards my deficit. If a woman my age/height/weight is 1900, then I need to subtract my weight from THAT, not count any calorie burning otherwise.

He also said that spinning was not the right exercise for me. Because of the intensity of the workout, it keeps my heart rate too high and my body ends up using the glycogen in my muscles, rather than using fat as fuel.

He recommended I start walking/running (there's the treadmill, RichPT!).

He also said that if I -- or any woman with PCOS -- doesn't lose weight running 2 hours a day, then he'll consider there's something seriously wrong with our bodies. But fundamentally, it just means we have to work harder.

He recommended 45 - 60 minutes a day of walking/running or similar sport that doesn't raise my heart rate too much above 140.

So, my new plan:

1400-1600 initially to get used to lower calories (may mean changing my food, of course!)
Spinning for fun (I cycle outdoors too and I was working towards longer rides so I could a MS Ride next year)
Walking as my cardio (or running, if I were to do that to myself)

I will probably end up having to do weights anyway, but I won't do it now, because this is already a lot of change for me and I work better when I focus on one thing.



It kind of makes me sad that my previous plan wasn't working and was causing me to gain weight. It makes me wonder if I will ever find something that keeps me at a healthy weight AND feels normal (no deprivation).

 

[biggestloser105]

Exercising more, however, won't make much of a difference, according to my doctor.
...

He also told me that the exercise calories that I burn don't count towards my deficit. If a woman my age/height/weight is 1900, then I need to subtract my weight from THAT, not count any calorie burning otherwise.

He also said that spinning was not the right exercise for me. Because of the intensity of the workout, it keeps my heart rate too high and my body ends up using the glycogen in my muscles, rather than using fat as fuel.

I think walking and running is a great idea, especially to vary the kind of exercise you do and work different muscles.

However, what your doctor is telling you about exercise goes against the most fundamental laws of physics. He's essentially telling you that you can be a perpetual motion machine, creating the energy for exercise out of nothing. It's just not possible, if it were we'd be able to solve all our energy problems. Any exercise you do, whether its spinning or pilates or walking or running requires energy and will burn calories. The more you do of it, the more calories you will burn.

If you use glycogen in your muscles, it means that glycogen won't be around later and you'll have to use another energy source, which ultimately would be fat (provided you're doing resistance exercises to maintain your muscle mass).

But ultimately if you start running even for an hour each day, it will very likely burn significantly more calories than doing something like pilates.

 

[Jynus]

I would get a new doc. Or at least a trainer. Everything you doc said is wrong.. the too high intensity thing has been a huge myth in fitness and is a huge personal pet peeve of mine every time people perpetuate this stupidity...

Higher intensity is good. In fact it's the best. But spin isn't "intense". You're still doing cardio. Intense is when you can't do the activity for more than 30seconds before you hit a huge wall of failure. Think spin......at 100% intensity, completely full out. (which is why i consider machines useless, I've yet to find any that I can actually go full out on. real land or bikes win every time) Or you 100lbs of weight on your shoulders....and you're squatting for 8 reps before you can't do another one. etc etc, things like that. Those are the true fat burners if you will.

But ya, don't listen to your doc. And for sure don't set up any diet plan around his advice..

Big question, whats your macro breakdown? The one thig i've seen in 100% of clients is every last one eats way to many carbs and not near enough protein and fats even when they are eating proper calorie amounts. It's very possible you are doing the same. Keep carbs to under 50% of your total calories..

 

[WineDeer]

But ultimately if you start running even for an hour each day, it will very likely burn significantly more calories than doing something like pilates.

I will burn more calories, but I won't give up my Pilates. I love it, first of all, and it's my WEIGHT class. I'm not a fan of machines (and I don't want to join a gym because I've BTDT and I hate it).

If I give up anything, it will be spinning for weight loss.

I don't think my doctor was saying that we are perpetual motion machines in that regard, but rather that for someone like me, who does have a metabolic disorder, this type of exercise doesn't work to steady weight loss.

The example of that is the last couple of months in my life where I have had a caloric deficit (according to the charts) and I haven't lost weight (in fact, I've gained it).

I think a large part of it is also the diet, but clearly even doing a lot of exercise -- 1-2 hours every day -- wasn't enough. Not for me anyway.

PCOS sucks.

 

[WineDeer]

I would get a new doc. Or at least a trainer. Everything you doc said is wrong.. the too high intensity thing has been a huge myth in fitness and is a huge personal pet peeve of mine every time people perpetuate this stupidity...

Ha ha ha!

I have heard here and elsewhere that what he was saying is a little off the mark because I've heard Steve (here) speak on HIIT and those myths.

But ya, don't listen to your doc. And for sure don't set up any diet plan around his advice..

This is the problem that I have because I do have PCOS and that is a metabolic disease and it puts me in a different category than your regular woman.

Big question, whats your macro breakdown? The one thig i've seen in 100% of clients is every last one eats way to many carbs and not near enough protein and fats even when they are eating proper calorie amounts. It's very possible you are doing the same. Keep carbs to under 50% of your total calories..

Today's Macro Breakdown:

Percent of calories

Fat: 31%
Carb: 40%
Protein: 29%

I've eaten 1366 calories today (so far and I've had dinner already). I may have a snack later (Greek yogurt).

My fiber today is low. For diabetics (and PCOS) patients, I should be eating a lot more fiber, but I had eggs this morning and I missed out on my fiber that I would otherwise.

I struggle with the protein, because I'm borderline vegetarian. I do have a Brown Rice Protein powder that I sometimes take when I feel I can't get any more animal protein in me that day/week.

 

[biggestloser105]

I will burn more calories, but I won't give up my Pilates. I love it, first of all, and it's my WEIGHT class. I'm not a fan of machines (and I don't want to join a gym because I've BTDT and I hate it).

I don't use weight machines to do weights, I do things like sit ups, push ups, squats, lunges, crunches. I use free weights to work out my arms/shoulders, but it amounts to a pair of 10lb dumbbells. You could try something like that! Probably if you did 100 sit ups in a setting it would work your abs better than pilates, and you could do it while watching TV and not have to use machines in the gym.

The example of that is the last couple of months in my life where I have had a caloric deficit (according to the charts) and I haven't lost weight (in fact, I've gained it).

It just means you didn't have a caloric deficit. Unless you gained a lot of water weight, it would be physically impossible for you to gain weight while in a deficit.

Maybe because of your metabolic issue you require less calories than the charts tell you, maybe you've been making a mistake in counting. But your metabolism can only be so low, your body still needs to heat itself, move around, replace cells, breathe, digest food. All these things require a certain base amount of calories. And if you exercise enough and eat low calorie (while staying out of starvation mode) you will have a loss.


Eating 1200 calories is not so difficult if you eat the right foods. For example, eating things like shrimp, tuna, or other low fat fish will give you a lot of filling food for a very small amount of calories. (A can of tuna in water is 120 calories, a serving of low fat fish is 100 calories. You can eat 3 of them and be completely full.) Eating large amounts of protein is important both to maintain your muscle and to fight hunger.

Also eating lots of green vegetables like leafy greens, cabbage, asparagus, etc. essentially no starchy vegetables (the low calorie veggies are very delicious in a vegetable soup) will fill you up for again very little calories.

If on the other hand you eat a diet with a lot of things like grains, beans, potatoes, red meats, cheeses, sweet fruits and other calorie dense foods that aren't very filling you will struggle.

I slipped up somewhat and started eating more calories, my weight loss went from 10 lb a month to 4 lb a month. So now I am going to count everything exactly and write things down and eat 1200 calories again because I know that will lose me a lot of weight.

 

[WineDeer]

I don't use weight machines to do weights, I do things like sit ups, push ups, squats, lunges, crunches. I use free weights to work out my arms/shoulders, but it amounts to a pair of 10lb dumbbells. You could try something like that! Probably if you did 100 sit ups in a setting it would work your abs better than pilates, and you could do it while watching TV and not have to use machines in the gym.

What you just described is part of my Pilates class. I think you said earlier that you hadn't taken a good class (or maybe it was a video or something) and I can assure you that in Pilates, we work our core muscles. It's part of the Pilates method -- the idea behind that is that anything else you do starts from the core (abs, back muscles).

All Pilates classes have what are called the Hundreds -- it is what it sounds like: hundreds of "crunches" that are done with your arms moving rapidly up and down and your body in the crunch position, while your legs are at a 45 degree angle. Those are the easy ones. As it gets harder, you're moving those legs by tapping them, crossing them over, alligator "bites", etc. It's even harder when you do a series of those without stopping. If you want to make it work even harder, your legs can go lower than the 45 degree angle, as long as your lower back does not pop off the ground.

As for push-ups, we do a variety, but slightly harder than the average push-up. Instead of keeping our hands on the side of our body, they are directly below the shoulder and the elbows bending back, rather than to the sides (which is easier). Usually, you start with plank position until you can hold it comfortably, in a straight position. Once you can do that, we lift the right/left legs without changing position. Once you are comfortable doing that, we do push-ups with the arms in that way. Both the "girl" way and the tradition legs straight way.

We also do squats, but we vary our leg position. We do feet together, parallel and then in pilates V form, which is ballerina style. Then we do it with a slight space between our feet, then ultimately with our legs wider than our shoulders. We do squats on our toes, not just our feet planted on the ground. We do these to exhaust our thigh muscles so we don't use them when we are doing abs (a lot of people compensate for weak abs by using their thigh muscles instead or their hip flexors).

We do lunges left often and they usually end up with us doing splits by the end. (Well, half-splits, since I can't reach the floor yet.)

It just means you didn't have a caloric deficit. Unless you gained a lot of water weight, it would be physically impossible for you to gain weight while in a deficit.

Maybe because of your metabolic issue you require less calories than the charts tell you, maybe you've been making a mistake in counting. But your metabolism can only be so low, your body still needs to heat itself, move around, replace cells, breathe, digest food. All these things require a certain base amount of calories. And if you exercise enough and eat low calorie (while staying out of starvation mode) you will have a loss.

I think the issue is the PCOS. I maybe my choices in food have to be revisited. I agree that I must be doing something wrong in order for me to gain weight and not lose.

I've been looking at my Fitday data (I've copied it down to Excel) and I've been studying the weeks/months that I've lost weight versus the ones where I haven't and sadly, the correlation between exercise and weight loss doesn't exist. But, there is a strong correlation between the weeks where I've been eating less calories on average.

I thought people who studied their eating patterns were OCD, but I'm realizing that there is some value to looking back and seeing what you've done or haven't done.

If on the other hand you eat a diet with a lot of things like grains, beans, potatoes, red meats, cheeses, sweet fruits and other calorie dense foods that aren't very filling you will struggle.

No, my diet is clean (minimal processed foods) and worked to increase my veggies and fruits in order to be able to eat more but consume less calories. I just need to rethink what I'm doing again and get out of this rut. Change up my food and reduce some calories.

THANK YOU again for your advice and suggestions. If you want to know more about Pilates, let me know.

 

[biggestloser105]

THANK YOU again for your advice and suggestions. If you want to know more about Pilates, let me know.

Actually maybe you could link a website with some exercises that you think are good? I also absolutely hate gyms, mostly because they smell like cleaning fluid and I have asthma. But I want to increase my muscle mass.

 

[WineDeer]

Actually maybe you could link a website with some exercises that you think are good? I also absolutely hate gyms, mostly because they smell like cleaning fluid and I have asthma. But I want to increase my muscle mass.

I hate gyms too.

This is not a bad link with a lot of the traditional Pilates exercises:

I highly suggest that you spend time understanding the Pilates Clock and the Pelvic Curl.

These are critical to doing Pilates the RIGHT way -- this is what will help you do these exercises effectively. It's important, because the last thing you want to do is train your muscles do it wrong.

The key with Pilates is that you always want to support your back -- in other words, keep your spine against the floor/mat. If you feel you can't curve your back as much or keep your lower back on the mat (depending on what exercise you're doing) then you have to do a modified version. It's better to do it in a modified way than to cause yourself back pain or injury.

Whenever you are doing these exercise, always, always, always tighten your stomach. Even if you think you're sucking it in, suck it in some more. You should be training a FLAT belly, not have it stick out.

Good luck. Let me know if you need anything else.

If you do find a studio in your area, I highly suggest you go to the mat classes a couple of times to check it out to get a sense of it before continuing on your own. Or ask around to see if someone recommends a Pilates teacher.

 

[biggestloser105]

I hate gyms too.

This is not a bad link with a lot of the traditional Pilates exercises:

I highly suggest that you spend time understanding the Pilates Clock and the Pelvic Curl.

These are critical to doing Pilates the RIGHT way -- this is what will help you do these exercises effectively. It's important, because the last thing you want to do is train your muscles do it wrong.

The key with Pilates is that you always want to support your back -- in other words, keep your spine against the floor/mat. If you feel you can't curve your back as much or keep your lower back on the mat (depending on what exercise you're doing) then you have to do a modified version. It's better to do it in a modified way than to cause yourself back pain or injury.

Whenever you are doing these exercise, always, always, always tighten your stomach. Even if you think you're sucking it in, suck it in some more. You should be training a FLAT belly, not have it stick out.

Good luck. Let me know if you need anything else.

If you do find a studio in your area, I highly suggest you go to the mat classes a couple of times to check it out to get a sense of it before continuing on your own. Or ask around to see if someone recommends a Pilates teacher.

Thanks I'll try them tonight

I kind of do the first exercise already, though I do it pretty fast and for the purpose of exercising my butt, not in the slow controlled way of unrolling the spine.

I do yoga as well, which if you have time you might want to try just because of how much it improves flexibility/range of motion. But it's not so great for calories burned and is time consuming.

I ate 1220 calories today too, trying not to eat more. Unfortunately I can't do something intense like running, the most I can do is walking which burns me about 300-400 calories per day depending on how long I walk. I really wish I could run !