Help me get my mind around calorie consumption please!!

[ali2]

Hi! I am a newbie here and have been doing a lot of reading around on this forum...I have seen a lot of discussions about under-consumption of calories and the effects it can have on your weight loss efforts.


Cliff notes version of my background:

I have lost 60 pounds over the past year through diet and exercise. I work out six days a week evenly split between cardio (mostly elliptical training) and weight training (machines mostly, increasingly more free weight work). I am 31 and currently weigh 204 pounds (come on 199!!!!) I am 5'4" tall (or not depending on how you look at it)

My goal is to get down to 150 but mostly I want to improve my health and reduce the stress being overweight has wrought on my body.

As far as diet goes, I haven't been adhering to a 'plan' of sorts but have been just eliminating the bulk of junk from my diet and watching my portion sizes. I have loosely attemped to keep my calories in the 1800 range but I don't write down what I am eating, I usually just review it in my head to make sure I haven't gone overboard for the day.

Anyway, I was reading on here about BMR and the Harris Benedict Calculation to determine caloric needs based on activity. My BMR is a tick under 1700 calories per day and when using the Harris Benedict formula I determined that my activity level was very active (based on the workout schedule set forth above, although I suppose I could be deluding myself on that point).

So the Harris Benedict formula sets my caloric needs at 2928 for maintenance, which seems incredibly high. To lose just one pound per week I would need to cut out 500 calories per day to 2428 and to lose two pounds per week I would need to cut to 1928.

I guess what my problem is is that I always thought 1800 was at the high end of caloric needs for weight loss but since my biggest problem is eating, I wanted to make as positive an experience as possible and not deprive myself to the point of failure. I can't imagine that I need to eat so much and can do so and still lose weight.

Am I way off base here? Are my calculations wrong? Is there something I am missing? Like I said, this is an entirely new concept to me and I am working hard to be successful at this. If I should be doing something different, I'll do it. I am always open to learning something new.

Thanks in advance for everyone's advice and suggestions, I can't wait to hear them!!

 

[Kdel]

I'm with you!
I'm glad you posted this, because I'm messed up too on the calorie thing!
I need a new way to do things, because what I'm doing is not working to well.

 

[maleficent]

no formula is ever going to be precise - especially if you've been under eating for a while...

the formula I read in a magazine that has been pretty consistent for me -is with regular exercise - 10-12 calories a pound... BUT - you really have to play with it sometimes -you might go up a little you might have to go down alittle but your better off at a high a range as possible so that when those dreaded plateaus happen... you have somewhere to adjust to...

12 calories a pound is where I settled on to and it's kind of working - as long as I stay away from corporate lunches

 

[Katikaaa]

i've also been undereating for quite some time and realized it's just not working for me. i'm sad and dissappointed because i've been working so hard to cut my calories (idiot!) and nothing happened. so now i calculated that i need to eat more - a lot more!
my question is this. how long do i stick with a certain amount of calorie intake to see if it's working or not? i upped my intake to 1600kcal and i'm still worried it's not enough (i go to the gym - cardio every day, weight lifting 3 times a week, one day off) but at the same time i'm worried it's too much (for 20 years i believed that in order to lose weight you have to eat just salads and crackers or follow an insane diet plan). one week? two weeks? a month?
btw i'm 5'7'', 165lbs and VERY confused

have a great day

K.

 

[maleficent]

give it a mimimum of 2 - 3 weeks at 1600 calories and see what happens - if you've been eating drastically low calories, you might find that you gain a pound or two in that time - Don't worry about it -If you're doing this right - you're looking at the big picture and the long term.. andnot seeing this as a short term diet -lose the pounds then I caneat what ever i want...

You want to change your habits, incorporate what you enjoy and make sure it's a calorie range you can live with with rest of your life...

 

[Steve]

Hi! I am a newbie here and have been doing a lot of reading around on this forum...I have seen a lot of discussions about under-consumption of calories and the effects it can have on your weight loss efforts.


Cliff notes version of my background:

I have lost 60 pounds over the past year through diet and exercise. I work out six days a week evenly split between cardio (mostly elliptical training) and weight training (machines mostly, increasingly more free weight work). I am 31 and currently weigh 204 pounds (come on 199!!!!) I am 5'4" tall (or not depending on how you look at it)

My goal is to get down to 150 but mostly I want to improve my health and reduce the stress being overweight has wrought on my body.

As far as diet goes, I haven't been adhering to a 'plan' of sorts but have been just eliminating the bulk of junk from my diet and watching my portion sizes. I have loosely attemped to keep my calories in the 1800 range but I don't write down what I am eating, I usually just review it in my head to make sure I haven't gone overboard for the day.

Anyway, I was reading on here about BMR and the Harris Benedict Calculation to determine caloric needs based on activity. My BMR is a tick under 1700 calories per day and when using the Harris Benedict formula I determined that my activity level was very active (based on the workout schedule set forth above, although I suppose I could be deluding myself on that point).

So the Harris Benedict formula sets my caloric needs at 2928 for maintenance, which seems incredibly high. To lose just one pound per week I would need to cut out 500 calories per day to 2428 and to lose two pounds per week I would need to cut to 1928.

I guess what my problem is is that I always thought 1800 was at the high end of caloric needs for weight loss but since my biggest problem is eating, I wanted to make as positive an experience as possible and not deprive myself to the point of failure. I can't imagine that I need to eat so much and can do so and still lose weight.

Am I way off base here? Are my calculations wrong? Is there something I am missing? Like I said, this is an entirely new concept to me and I am working hard to be successful at this. If I should be doing something different, I'll do it. I am always open to learning something new.

Thanks in advance for everyone's advice and suggestions, I can't wait to hear them!!

Ali, let's not forget that there is no preset caloric intake for everyone. You said something like, "I thought 1800 was on the high end of caloric needs for weight loss."

That's a blanket statement.

In reality, caloric requirements need to be matched to the individual; primarily through weight and energy expenditure. Obviously a 400 lb professional football player is going to need a crap ton more calories than a sedentary 400 lb obese woman. Similarly, a 400 lb professional football player trying to lose weight is going to be able to lose said weight eating a lot more food than a 200 lb football player trying to lose weight.

Don't give so much thought to calculating your cals.

If you've been eyeballing it and losing weight consistently and at a healthy rate without worrying about your exact cals consumed or expended.... keep going with that until it stops working.

 

[ali2]

Ali, let's not forget that there is no preset caloric intake for everyone. You said something like, "I thought 1800 was on the high end of caloric needs for weight loss."

That's a blanket statement.

In reality, caloric requirements need to be matched to the individual; primarily through weight and energy expenditure. Obviously a 400 lb professional football player is going to need a crap ton more calories than a sedentary 400 lb obese woman. Similarly, a 400 lb professional football player trying to lose weight is going to be able to lose said weight eating a lot more food than a 200 lb football player trying to lose weight.

Don't give so much thought to calculating your cals.

If you've been eyeballing it and losing weight consistently and at a healthy rate without worrying about your exact cals consumed or expended.... keep going with that until it stops working.

You are absolutely right, that was a blanket statement. Part of the shift that is difficult to make when you lose weight is letting go of what I have termed 'fat girl mentality' in that I still think (and believe I look like) the person I was a year ago. That person would never exercise as a means to get healthier or lose weight so calorie restriction (or whatever gimmick I was trying at the time) would be the only way the pounds would come off.

Not understanding how exercise plays such a large role in calorie consumption, I didn't really subscribe to a method, but just 'eyeballed' it like you said to determine what I should be eating in a day. It is funny because I have felt like for a while I could treat myself from time to time and not blow all of the works straight to hell and now I think it is because I may have more 'latitude' than I originally thought due to my workouts.

I will continue how I have been since it appears to be working, the only concern I have is that I am not getting enough of everything, I don't really eat veggies except for salad-type things and am afraid that fruit will give me too much of a sugar load. Plus, with the working out is there anything additional I should be doing nutrition-wise? Any recommendations?

I know I am asking a lot of questions but I want to stay successful at this for the long term...

As always, thanks for everyone's help ~ I really appreciate it!

 

[Steve]

You are absolutely right, that was a blanket statement. Part of the shift that is difficult to make when you lose weight is letting go of what I have termed 'fat girl mentality' in that I still think (and believe I look like) the person I was a year ago. That person would never exercise as a means to get healthier or lose weight so calorie restriction (or whatever gimmick I was trying at the time) would be the only way the pounds would come off.

Self-image change usually tails physical change unfortunately. When you're mind has been programmed to believe things and behave certain ways for a lifetime, no amount of weight loss is going to erase these 'cognitions' overnight.

This is why working on your mind is just as important at working on your body, if not more. Most are well aware of this. But I'd be interested in seeing who actually does it on a consistent basis.

It's understandable why this is. Exercise and diet produce tangible results. Human development really doesn't. It's not like you can solidify your emotions and self-talk. But this is all the more reason why you have to consistently stay on top of this facet of programming.

Not understanding how exercise plays such a large role in calorie consumption, I didn't really subscribe to a method, but just 'eyeballed' it like you said to determine what I should be eating in a day. It is funny because I have felt like for a while I could treat myself from time to time and not blow all of the works straight to hell and now I think it is because I may have more 'latitude' than I originally thought due to my workouts.

I think most novices are fine starting out without strict calorie counting to be honest. If anything, for many people, counting calories can throw hurdles at novices higher than they are prepared to leap. This isn't the case for everyone.... but certainly for some.

Simply making better food choices tends to reduce the energy-density of your meals, thus leading to a net lower daily caloric intake and weight loss.

Once this stops working, most are usually ready for higher hurdles and can start counting calories. Sites like calorieking.com and fitday.com make it a lot easier.

And certainly, exercise has a ton of benefits. One major one being the act of being a caloric bank. Exercise allows you to 'save up' some extra calories to eat.

I will continue how I have been since it appears to be working, the only concern I have is that I am not getting enough of everything,

Well calories are self-regulating in a way. Assuming you aren't losing too quickly, then your cals are probably right on.

I don't really eat veggies except for salad-type things and am afraid that fruit will give me too much of a sugar load.

Don't be a sugar phobic.

Sugar does not = evil

Especially fruit.

And why don't you eat veggies?

Plus, with the working out is there anything additional I should be doing nutrition-wise? Any recommendations?

I don't like saying too much b/c people tend to feel bound by what I say. That said, I think the essentials of any diet include adequate protein, good fats, fruits, veggies, and water.

 

[ali2]

And why don't you eat veggies?

I have never really eaten them, for the most part I dont' like the taste...I eat string beans, corn (which is a starch obviously) and anything that can go in a salad, lettuce, peppers, spinach, tomatoes, cucumbers, carrots, etc. So, as a result, I try to eat one good salad everyday to make up for what I am not eating through other vegetables. It is funny how your tastes as an adult are hard to change...

I will work on not being sugar-phobic...one thing I am learning is that you are more 'programmed' than you think you are and so many years of being in the weight-loss wars can make you afraid of certain things. Balance is definately a good thing.

The self-image has been one of the harder parts of this; while I can acknowledge that I have lost a significant amount of weight, when I look in the mirror I still see the old me to an extent. It makes it difficult, at times, to enjoy the success I have had, especially when what you see is not what the world says is 'beauty'. I try every day to remember that I have been successful so far and that the 'wreckage' of my body is proof of that success. It gets a little better as time goes on, but I have a feeling that the 'fat girl' will always occupy a corner of my brain.

One of my friends tells me that I am scared to death of being heavy again. I think he is right and maybe right now, I am still a little too afraid, but I think that some fear, and remember where you have been and what could happen if you regress is a good thing.

Every day I move forward and not backward is a success in my book. Hey, you can't expect to undo 15 or more years of bad beliefs and habits in a moment, right?

 

[paydirt]

I had a longer reply but lost it to a mis-click. Darnit!

Yeah, whatever you've read that said fruits and vegetables were bad, throw it away. If you're being healthy, would you rather eat something that is natural and packed with vitamins and minerals or something man made packed with fillers?

Anyways, apples/pears and oranges/grapefruits both have fiber to 'counteract' the natural sugar. Fruits are a natural source of vitamin A. Oh yeah, natural sugar is different than refined sugar. Grapes though don't have as much vitamins and are much more sugary so I would avoid those.

Vitamin A (from the gov't): "Vitamin A is a group of compounds that play an important role in vision, bone growth, reproduction, cell division, and cell differentiation (in which a cell becomes part of the brain, muscle, lungs, blood, or other specialized tissue.) [1-5]. Vitamin A helps regulate the immune system, which helps prevent or fight off infections by making white blood cells that destroy harmful bacteria and viruses [1,6-10]. Vitamin A also may help lymphocytes (a type of white blood cell) fight infections more effectively.

Vitamin A promotes healthy surface linings of the eyes and the respiratory, urinary, and intestinal tracts [8]. When those linings break down, it becomes easier for bacteria to enter the body and cause infection. Vitamin A also helps the skin and mucous membranes function as a barrier to bacteria and viruses [9-11]."


Spinach/broccoli are great because they have a bunch of folates. They are also high in minerals such as calcium, magnesium, and potassium (fruits are generally not high in minerals).

Folates (from the gov't): "Folate helps produce and maintain new cells [2]. This is especially important during periods of rapid cell division and growth such as infancy and pregnancy. Folate is needed to make DNA and RNA, the building blocks of cells. It also helps prevent changes to DNA that may lead to cancer [3]. Both adults and children need folate to make normal red blood cells and prevent anemia [4]. Folate is also essential for the metabolism of homocysteine, and helps maintain normal levels of this amino acid."

 

[paydirt]

I have to say that I get a little emotional (man, I'm a wuss) when I read the descriptions of what these vitamins and minerals do because they are very key. Like...

"Folate is needed to make DNA and RNA, the building blocks of cells. It also helps prevent changes to DNA that may lead to cancer."

"Vitamin A helps regulate the immune system, which helps prevent or fight off infections by making white blood cells that destroy harmful bacteria and viruses."

This stuff is important. Makes me a little sad that I forget to do it some times, but also inspires me to stay on track with getting my vitamins and minerals.


Here's my source:

 

[Steve]

I have never really eaten them, for the most part I dont' like the taste...I eat string beans, corn (which is a starch obviously) and anything that can go in a salad, lettuce, peppers, spinach, tomatoes, cucumbers, carrots, etc. So, as a result, I try to eat one good salad everyday to make up for what I am not eating through other vegetables. It is funny how your tastes as an adult are hard to change...

The more veggies the better.

If salads are how you are going to get your veggies in, I'd have more than one.

I will work on not being sugar-phobic...one thing I am learning is that you are more 'programmed' than you think you are and so many years of being in the weight-loss wars can make you afraid of certain things. Balance is definately a good thing.

There was a time when high carb was believed to be the way to weight loss.

There were other times when high fat was believed to be the way to weight loss.

These things come and go.

One thing remains constant though; it doesn't matter what the F- you are eating.... if you are eating too much, you're going to gain weight.

Adequate protein, fats, fruits & veggies, and water. After those requirements are fulfilled, it becomes a very individual thing.

The self-image has been one of the harder parts of this; while I can acknowledge that I have lost a significant amount of weight, when I look in the mirror I still see the old me to an extent. It makes it difficult, at times, to enjoy the success I have had, especially when what you see is not what the world says is 'beauty'.

I can understand that.

The only thing I can tell you is to look at who's deciding what Real Beauty is. It's a bunch of moronic, loud-mouthed, shallow asshats who wouldn't earn the respect of any intelligent person even if they cured cancer.

Okay, that might be a stretch, but you get the point I hope!

As hard as it is, you can't let others influence how you feel about yourself. Instead of focusing on how far you have to go yet.... focus on how far you've come.

Perception is our own reality.

And thank the lord, we always have a choice in what we focus on. It's up to you do guide that focus.

I try every day to remember that I have been successful so far and that the 'wreckage' of my body is proof of that success. It gets a little better as time goes on, but I have a feeling that the 'fat girl' will always occupy a corner of my brain.

It very well could be there forever. So?

Again, target that focus.

Take myself for example. I grew up a bean pole. Disgustingly skinny IMO. I still have a very small bone structure. If I focus on it, it can actually become self-defeating.

For one, my wrists and ankles are skinny as hell.... certainly not the epitome of a bodybuilder or strength athlete.

For two, small bone structures don't match at all what I want and that's to be a strong Mo Fo.

If I focus on these things, yea.... I can start feeling like shit. And that skinny guy is still there someplace in the corner of my mind. But you think I give a shit? Nope. All along, I've focused my attetion to my successes. I've focused my attention on what I wanted instead of what I didn't want. And ya know what.....

I've had positive momentum in the grand scheme of things for a long time and said momentum has generated results and an attitude that I'm damn proud of.

I programmed my mind for success. I'm not sure people even realize how much time I spent (still do) on changing/controlling the way I think.

Until you do this, you are never going to be in control of your thoughts and therefore your emotions.

One of my friends tells me that I am scared to death of being heavy again. I think he is right and maybe right now, I am still a little too afraid, but I think that some fear, and remember where you have been and what could happen if you regress is a good thing.

Absolutely.

We all operate based on the premise of avoid pain and gain pleasure. I've talked about this elsewhere on the forum. All decisions are made after being weighed on a pain/pleasure scale.

 

[ali2]

Thanks paydirt!

I wasn't worried about the veggies as much, I just am weird about some of them (broccoli for one) and try to do the best I can putting things in salads. I have to confess that I am a slight sugar-phobe when it comes to fruit. I will work on that...


The infomation you provided was great, thanks for putting it up there, I am sure a lot of people can benefit from it.

 

[ali2]

One thing remains constant though; it doesn't matter what the F- you are eating.... if you are eating too much, you're going to gain weight.

Haha Steve, clearly that was my problem before...what I have noticed though, is that if I decide to 'cheat' or have something I normally restrict myself from, if I make better decisions about what I have the rest of the day, it all seems to work out in the end. Not that I do this a lot (and I find that it doesn't taste as good as it used to) but you get the point.

As hard as it is, you can't let others influence how you feel about yourself. Instead of focusing on how far you have to go yet.... focus on how far you've come.

My mother always told me to look for confirmation in things. What you said here is almost identical to what I was told by someone else. Excellent advice ~ I am going to work on changing that focus. I have a lot of work to do on the confidence end of things but I definately want it to improve.

Letting go of your past is a hard thing, but I am ready.

 

[Steve]

Haha Steve, clearly that was my problem before...what I have noticed though, is that if I decide to 'cheat' or have something I normally restrict myself from, if I make better decisions about what I have the rest of the day, it all seems to work out in the end.

Exactly.

Not that I do this a lot (and I find that it doesn't taste as good as it used to) but you get the point. [

Really? I've heard others say that. That isn't the case with me. I go through stages where my goal is to lose fat and other stages where my goal is to add muscle.

Obviously I eat more when I'm adding muscle. And when this it the case, I frequently find myself substituting cookies in for my brown rice and crap like that, lol.

I love bad food.

My mother always told me to look for confirmation in things. What you said here is almost identical to what I was told by someone else. Excellent advice ~ I am going to work on changing that focus. I have a lot of work to do on the confidence end of things but I definately want it to improve.

Letting go of your past is a hard thing, but I am ready.

Best to ya Ali.

 

[paydirt]

ali, you said you get the strength to continue from the fear of regressing... Mentally, we are most powerful when we do things out of love and not fear. So maybe you can look yourself in the mirror and say until you believe it, "I'm doing this out of love."

You are not your body. Your body is changeable but your soul stays fairly constant... Love your soul.

 

[Geovicsha]

Calorie intake has confused me too. Not only do many of the things my dad buys don't come with calorie intake, since I'm from Australia FitDay don't have much of it recorded so it's hard.

Furthermore, I can't weigh the portions as my dad is the cook for dinner.

Even so, I try to be as accurate as possible and I seem to be still under 1800, no matter how hard I try. I get full otherwise. Even before this I was usually not a big eater (unless I indulge in McDonalds or whatever, which is my downfall).

I can't wait to move away for the University year and get things that always include calories, things will be a lot easier... but more expensive on my behalf.