Weight-Loss Effect of lowering carbs?

[Steve]

No offence taken.

But all you have said is what I shouldn't do not what I should do.

Fair enough. I like to highlight issues and make sure people understand WHY they're issues before advising them on what I'd prefer they do. This needs to be a process of education as well as body transformation if things are going to stick.

Plus, who likes blindly following advice. I know, based on previous conversations, that you do not.

Before moving on, let's lay things out very simply.

You are small enough. But you'd like to increase strength and possibly increase some muscle which in turn will help with obtaining better leanness down the road.

Knowing this, we can off the bat think of some things that MUST be happening. Primarily, some form of heavy (relative to your strength) weight training needs to be taking place. We also know that calories need to be slightly above maintenance if tissue is to be gained.

Now compare this to what you're currently doing.

On the exercise front, volume is dictated by weight. One analogy might be a marathon. Could you run marathon distances with 100 lbs on your back? No.

If you're doing high volume stuff - either many exercises per session, many reps per set, or whatever... by definition, you're using light weights relative to your maximum ability.

For true strength work, reps need to be in the 1-12 rep range generally speaking. Reps are dictated by load. The higher the load, the less reps you can complete, right?

That's why I outlined the program I did a few posts back with the upper/lower 4x/wk split.

Metabolic exercise
I didn't mean to only do metabolic exercise. It just evolved that way. I didn't even know it was metabolic. I certainly feel and look fitter but you'll probably tell me that I'm not.

No way will I tell you I'm not. Any application of stress on the body will elicit an adaptation. That's what our bodies do... they work to maintain homeostasis by adapting to external stimuli.

But we can't unbiasedly throw whatever stimuli we want at the body and expect to get very specific adaptations. Specificity means something. Actually it means everything.

Which is why by running marathons every day someone isn't going to become strong or ripped. Marathons aren't specific to strength and leanness.

We must match the stimuli we impose on our bodies to the specific adaptations we're shooting for.

- Without a doubt I like the zone out. It's good for stress management.

I'm not much for binary thinking where things are either/or. That said, is exercise a means to an end for you in terms of performance, appearance, health, etc or is it a means of meditation?

If it's the former, you need to focus on specificity to obtain the adaptations you're hoping to get from exercise. If it's the latter, do whatever you want.

- I'm not that bothered with the vanity of it. Some muscle 'pop' is nice.

These two sentences are contradictory.

Do you want to look better than you do right now? Or don't you?

Hint: I've worked with hundreds of people and I've not once met someone who didn't want to look better via exercise. Sure, many of my clients want to get stronger, faster, healthier and everything else. But invariably everyone wants to look better too.

- I aim to have greater endurance and strength. My days can be very long.

Be specific. What sort of endurance do you need? I can tell you this - doing a billion variations of core exercises each day isn't helping you endure office work or presentations.

Right now you're working all endurance and hardly any strength. You're working cardiorespiratory endurance, muscle endurance, etc.

- Oddly I derive confidence from being able to work out. Can't quantify that.

I don't find that odd at all.

Mind vs Body
I don't know the difference between what is good in my mind versus how my body reacts (unless I injure myself & then my body sends a very clear message). My body seems to be responding well to the diet and exercise programme but then I don't know what measurement system you are using much less how to apply it.

I'm basing my statement off what you've said previously in this thread.

You want to be stronger.

You want to add some muscle.

These two things do NOT match how you're training.

To test strength, hop under a barbell and test your maximum strength with one rep in the bench press (or whatever exercise you'd like to test). Has this ability increased?

It very well may have? But optimally? I doubt it since that's not what you're training for currently.

You might be able to do more reps in less time, but that's not true strength. That's endurance.

Maybe the problem is you're not being clear with what exactly you want.

If you just want to "do whatever" and let genetics take care of the rest... then have at it. I certainly won't try and stop you. If you want to optimize your path to a SPECIFIC goal though, that's what I'm in the business of doing.

 

[Spinner19641]

Thank you for another detailed reply.

This is at least helping me clairfy my goals/objectives. And, I think I now understand why I have hestitated about what to do next.

Principles of your proposed workout regime
I understand what you are saying. To gain strength and muscle I would need to lower reps and increase weight while upping calories to enable muscle build.

No problem with the principles or the ability to do that (I have the kit and I have time allocated to work out daily) although I do have some injuries I need to manage.

Vanity
I'm not saying I don't like looking fit but I not sure I care much about looking any fitter. It's a question of effort versus return. A bit more muscle 'pop' is nice but I'm not sure how much worth to me.

Endurance
That I need big time. It's not the meetings or presentations but the travelling. Some days I will drive for 4 - 8 hours under dodgy conditions and busy roads. That means I will often drop down a 10 - 15 hour day including 2 hour to 6 hour meetings, etc in the middle. And I may do it day after day. I need to stay alert, no falling asleep at the wheel!!! This is why I must have endurance and manage my energy levels wisely.

Stress Management
I get that from the bike. No, I don't need to ride for an hour but I do a lot of thinking on that bike, solve a lot of problems while I pound away. No idea why that works for me but it does.

Conclusion re goals
I thought about this a lot over the past few days. I think part of my problem is I don't have a problem. I am not particularly disatisfied with with my health or appearance. None of us look perfect but I am healthy, able, lean and fit enough to do what I need to do. I had a full health review last year and my doctors said the results were excellent for any age.

Conclusion re exercise programme
I think I'll explore some of the suggestions you have made. Not having a 'specificity' in mind I think I might try:

- adding lower rep/higher weights particularly to my upper body
- modifying my core exercises to improve return for effort (I'll need to research alternative moves because I don't know them - does your site have them?)
- reducing the spin bike to 45 minutes and doing 30 - 40 minutes on weights/core
- I don't really want to build my lower body any further, I'll leave that to the spinner bike
- But I'll have 2 routines for the weights/core and swap between days

Physical considerations
I should point out that I build lean muscle very easily (I'm half Chinese so I think it is genetic).

I also have an old wrist injury (surgery on a broken wrist when I was 12) and I have a problem with the nerve damage from the surgery. It means my left wrist (& I am right handed) causes pain and can give out on me without warning (I can drop heavy items unexpectedly if my wrist is not held at the right angle). However, I am used to the discomfort and risk it can cause.

I also have a left shoulder injury. No one knows why but the damage is deep in the muscle sheath.

These 2 injuries have put me off increasing the upper body weights but I understand I need to work with the injuries. Three years ago I had damage in my lower back muscle sheath but I persisted and now my back is fine. My wrist cannot heal but my shoulder might.

Thank you
I know this has taken up a lot of your time and I appreciate you giving the time. I do feel a little guilty absorbing so much of your time for the past number of days. But I now have a clear direction to follow. It may not be entirely the one you advise but it's a viable next step and who knows where I'll go from there.

Your endlessly patient advice has been much appreciated! And, hopefully, anyone who has been tracking this thread has also benefited.

 

[Steve]

Principles of your proposed workout regime
I understand what you are saying. To gain strength and muscle I would need to lower reps and increase weight while upping calories to enable muscle build.

Right-o.

I will caution that you need to be certain that this is what you want though. Not that the effects of training like this aren't reversible. But you can/will gain some fat while being in a calorie surplus.

The idea is to minimize this relative to muscle gain.

At a certain point in the future (when you're strong enough, muscular enough, too soft for comfort, or whatever) you then reverse the process. This is when you'd focus on unveiling your new hard earned strength/muscle and establish leanness.

Put simply:

Step 1 - build muscle while minimizing fat gain

Step 2 - lose fat while maintaining as much newly added muscle as possible

Some people repeat this cycle indefinitely. Some people do it until they're satisfied. Some people never do it... they lose fat initially and whatever their genetic card dealt them is what they live with.

No problem with the principles or the ability to do that (I have the kit and I have time allocated to work out daily) although I do have some injuries I need to manage.

Many of us have injuries or dysfunctions that need to be worked around and/or corrected if possible.

If you'd like to run any of them by me, I'd be happy to offer advice if it's within my scope and knowledge.

Vanity
I'm not saying I don't like looking fit but I not sure I care much about looking any fitter. It's a question of effort versus return. A bit more muscle 'pop' is nice but I'm not sure how much worth to me.

Understood. And definitely a personal choice.

In my mind, it's really easy.

Look in the mirror. If you could change something about yourself physically in terms of body composition... what would it be?

If you'd like to look leaner, you must lose more fat. This is assuming a base of muscle is in existence that's enough to establish the lean look. Some people don't have this and diet and diet and diet never looking lean. I mean concentration camp survivors lost all but their essential fat and never looked shredded since they didn't have the ability to preserve muscle via training and nutrition.

If you don't think a large enough base of muscle is there, then you need to work on that first before worrying about taking more fat off.

Or....

You just stay where you are and focus on your fitness.

No rights or wrongs.

Endurance
That I need big time. It's not the meetings or presentations but the travelling. Some days I will drive for 4 - 8 hours under dodgy conditions and busy roads. That means I will often drop down a 10 - 15 hour day including 2 hour to 6 hour meetings, etc in the middle. And I may do it day after day. I need to stay alert, no falling asleep at the wheel!!! This is why I must have endurance and manage my energy levels wisely.

But endurance training isn't helping you on that front. This has more to do with energy levels than endurance, which are not one in the same. Sure, endurance exercise might make you feel good which indirectly might help you be more energetic... but going back to your bang for your buck above... endurance training isn't a huge player in helping you stay away and be functional for those sorts of activities.

Endurance training would help someone who needs to be exerting force (either with their body weights, an object like a hammer, etc) over long periods of time.

Stress Management
I get that from the bike. No, I don't need to ride for an hour but I do a lot of thinking on that bike, solve a lot of problems while I pound away. No idea why that works for me but it does.

Life is nothing but a string of compromises. It's that simple.

Endurance work is at direct odds with strength and muscle gain. I do promote balanced training that includes strength and endurance work.... but if you sway it to one end, it's always at the sacrifice of the other.

If the intensity on the bike is very low, and it's just a time for you to zone out and reflect... that's one thing. Low intensity endurance work can be recuperative. But that's not what it sounds like you're doing each time you hop on the bike.

Conclusion re goals
I thought about this a lot over the past few days. I think part of my problem is I don't have a problem. I am not particularly disatisfied with with my health or appearance. None of us look perfect but I am healthy, able, lean and fit enough to do what I need to do. I had a full health review last year and my doctors said the results were excellent for any age.

And that's a great place to be.

Conclusion re exercise programme
I think I'll explore some of the suggestions you have made. Not having a 'specificity' in mind I think I might try:

Strength training is important for a lot of reasons, not just strength and muscle. I'd definitely focus on swaying your spectrum to a more balanced approach if, for no other reason, to balance out your "health" and "functionality."

- modifying my core exercises to improve return for effort (I'll need to research alternative moves because I don't know them - does your site have them?)

I can't remember what I have up at this stage in the game. My website is a side gig that I haven't worked on in quite a long time. My gym comes first as well as my clients.

That said, you shouldn't need to train your core any more than your other muscles. 2-3 times per week, some heavier sessions and some higher rep sessions.

Planks
Pallof Presses
Cable wood chops
Reverse crunches
Dragon flags
Saxon side bends
Glute Bridges
Bird dogs

I could rattle off quite a few more. The idea is to train the core how it was designed to function, and more than anything else, it's designed for stability and anti-rotation.

YOu don't need loads of volume here. 1 or 2 exercises each day you train your core for 2-4 sets of 12-15 reps if it's rep based and 30-60 sec if it's time based.

- reducing the spin bike to 45 minutes and doing 30 - 40 minutes on weights/core

I'd focus on weights and core 2-4 times per week. Doing more can be counterproductive.

I also have an old wrist injury (surgery on a broken wrist when I was 12) and I have a problem with the nerve damage from the surgery. It means my left wrist (& I am right handed) causes pain and can give out on me without warning (I can drop heavy items unexpectedly if my wrist is not held at the right angle). However, I am used to the discomfort and risk it can cause.

That's a bummer. I'd shy away from barbell work. With dumbbells you can dump them easily without having them land on you. The barbell is a different story!

I also have a left shoulder injury. No one knows why but the damage is deep in the muscle sheath.

How have you had this examined? Have they identified what muscle it is specifically?

Thank you
I know this has taken up a lot of your time and I appreciate you giving the time. I do feel a little guilty absorbing so much of your time for the past number of days. But I now have a clear direction to follow. It may not be entirely the one you advise but it's a viable next step and who knows where I'll go from there.

Your endlessly patient advice has been much appreciated! And, hopefully, anyone who has been tracking this thread has also benefited.

Thanks and you're welcome. My pleasure, really.

 

[Spinner19641]

Someone on your site told me how to use quotes so I am trying...not sure if I have this right...it seems very 'fiddly'. It's Friday night here and my brain has left the building!

Step 1 - build muscle while minimizing fat gain

Step 2 - lose fat while maintaining as much newly added muscle as possible

I didn't know that. I read people asking when they should 'cut' and I guess that what they mean. I thought it was some weird body builder code. But the gaining a little fat thing is okay because on this very dull but terribly healthy diet it's easy to lose weight again.

Look in the mirror. If you could change something about yourself physically in terms of body composition... what would it be?.

Ha ha! The things I would change require surgery or a time machine so I can go back to an earlier state of being!!!

Nah just kidding, the upside of being in your 40's is that you learn to be happy with yourself. Life is too short and there's too much fun to be had - no need to be on your case all your life.

But endurance training isn't helping you on that front. This has more to do with energy levels than endurance, which are not one in the same. Sure, endurance exercise might make you feel good which indirectly might help you be more energetic... but going back to your bang for your buck above... endurance training isn't a huge player in helping you stay away and be functional for those sorts of activities.

I don't understand. Why doesn't endurance training help you stay more alert for longer?

Endurance work is at direct odds with strength and muscle gain.

Again, I don't understand. Why is it contradictory and not complimentary?

What will happen if I keep pounding on that bike and do the core & weights as you suggest? I don't understand the downside.

Strength training is important for a lot of reasons, not just strength and muscle. I'd definitely focus on swaying your spectrum to a more balanced approach if, for no other reason, to balance out your "health" and "functionality."

Hmm, I like the idea of all over body strength, endurance and retaining functionality is really important. The problem with heading into your 50's (I'm 46 now) is that if I don't work I am going to lose it, possible forever, and I think it is harder to get yourself into shape once you have gone through menopause. Might as well go into the next stage in good condition 'cos I hear it's a downhill slide from there!

That said, you shouldn't need to train your core any more than your other muscles. 2-3 times per week, some heavier sessions and some higher rep sessions.

Planks
Pallof Presses
Cable wood chops
Reverse crunches
Dragon flags
Saxon side bends
Glute Bridges
Bird dogs.

What happens if you do more than 2 - 3 times per week?

OMG, we just pulled instructions for the Dragon flag. Are you freakin' serious!!! The whole office just fell about laughing...you are a bad man Steve...ha ha!!!

But seriously, I do some of these already. Didn't know they had such imaginative names! But they are not very hard for me. Why is that?

YOu don't need loads of volume here. 1 or 2 exercises each day you train your core for 2-4 sets of 12-15 reps if it's rep based and 30-60 sec if it's time based.

I'd focus on weights and core 2-4 times per week. Doing more can be counterproductive.

Same question as before....what if you do more than that? What happens? Will I explode (joking)?

That's a bummer. I'd shy away from barbell work. With dumbbells you can dump them easily without having them land on you. The barbell is a different story!

Ha ha, that was a funny visual...ouch!

How have you had this examined? Have they identified what muscle it is specifically?

Yes. My doctor used to run a medical clinic specifically for gym junkies. He said it was the oddest injury he had ever seen. It something to do with the deeper muscle sheath between the shoulder blades. I have anti inflammatories but they don't seem to do anything. Driving (and not the gym) seems to aggravate it. It might be related to my wrist...I may be compensating in some way.

Thanks and you're welcome. My pleasure, really.

You really do have a lot of patience. You must love this subject! But I'm starting to think you should send me a bill!!!

Oh wow, the quote thing worked. Must thank BikeSwimLaugh for that.

 

[Steve]

Probably won't be able to reply to everything this go around. I'm heading out for happy hour and all you can eat buffalo wings in a few moments.

Someone on your site told me how to use quotes so I am trying...not sure if I have this right...it seems very 'fiddly'. It's Friday night here and my brain has left the building!

There's a sticky over there explaining it in detail.

Ha ha! The things I would change require surgery or a time machine so I can go back to an earlier state of being!!!

Nah just kidding, the upside of being in your 40's is that you learn to be happy with yourself. Life is too short and there's too much fun to be had - no need to be on your case all your life.

Thankfully I'm only 29 and I've reached this point already. I don't get wrapped up in bulking or cutting or any of that crap anymore. I just strive for being an athlete. I like the idea of being stronger and faster, being able to punch harder and jump higher, and being able to survive better than the next guy.

Sort of silly, but it's what keeps me in the gym nowadays.

Plus I love the art of training... seeing how I can muster out more gains in particular facets of my fitness.

Form follows function as long as you're not stupid with diet. I eat sensibly without counting calories and I exercise balanced and consistently.

I don't understand. Why doesn't endurance training help you stay more alert for longer?

I think it'd be easier to answer this question if you explain to me how you think endurance training helps you stay alert longer. Maybe I'm confused here.

Again, I don't understand. Why is it contradictory and not complimentary?

The adaptations associated with each are at direct odds with one another.

Basically making a muscle grow requires specific changes in the cellular structure of the muscle fibers - this is related to anaerobic (oxygen-free sugar-burning) metabolism. Protein accumulates under these conditions, making it bigger.

Cardio triggers muscle fibers to adapt for aerobic (oxygen-burning) metabolism and endurance.

Now, the clash comes in because these variables are mutually exclusive - they tend to cancel each other out. You can't have a muscle that's optimized for being large/anaerobic and to be energy-efficient and endurance-oriented.

The analogy I use is comparing a big SUV to a compact economy car. The SUV is big, powerful, and has horrible gas mileage. The economy car is small and not very powerful, but it'll run for days on a tank of gas.

Energy balance is a part of this equation, but there are definitely underlying and conflicting molecular-level adaptations at work.

When training, you need to aim towards the big inefficient muscle. Anaerobic optimization is what allows protein to accumulate, making the muscle bigger and stronger - at the cost of aerobic endurance. Aerobic-trained muscles are going to be much smaller (smaller = efficient) and full of the enzymes and cellular junk necessary for that - which will be at the sacrifice of the contractile proteins that make up the bulk of a muscle fiber.

I should add that this effect is mainly observed in athletes that are trying to do too much at once. I'm not talking about a handful of 30 minute cardio sessions here; you can out-eat that. This does become a concern if you're one of those doing 2-3 hours worth of cardio several times a week.

What will happen if I keep pounding on that bike and do the core & weights as you suggest? I don't understand the downside.

Stress is cumulative. Recovery capacity is finite, meaning your ability to handle multiple stressors is finite. If you weight train 6 days per week and do an hour + of cardio 6 days each week... something is eventually going to give.

It might be an injury. It might be overtraining syndrome. Whatever the case, it ain't pretty.

Not to mention what I said above about competing variables.

This is why we don't have marathoners who are also competing in powerlifting. We can't optimize all facets of fitness. What it comes down to is figuring out what facets you need the most of for your chosen sport, lifestyle, etc and tailoring your training based on this.

With regards to looking good naked, that's easy to plan for. You want to maximize muscle mass and minimize fat mass. This takes some strength training and some cardio. Actually cardio isn't even necessary, as diet can take care of the caloric deficit. But I like keeping it in there for other reasons.

I'll get to the rest later.

 

[Spinner19641]

Thank you Steve. I think you have answered my basic questions in your last post.

I take what you have taught me and apply it to my diet & exercise programme. I'm not planning to 'bulk' but:

- I'll match my food intake (particularly protein) to my exercise effort.
- I'll balance my workout between bike/core/upper body weights.
- I'll reduce the bike to 5 - 6 days, 45 minutes
- I'll do the core/weights 4 days per week slowly increase intensity reducing reps.

I found having lost weight (unintentionally) but increased intensity that I was getting quite tired so this should sort that.

And you asked what I meant by endurance keeping you alert. In 2004 I had chicken pox (not shingles) and I suffered from post viral fatigue where I wasn't sure I could see a day through. It took a long time to fully and completely clear the symptoms (until 2006) and I lost confidence in my energy levels. The endurance training rebuilt that confidence in me. That said, the point has been made to myself now so I can modify my programme.

Thank you for the training & advice. S