Sport Clean Bulking

Sport Fitness
theleip said:
Well bravo to you for being one of the strongest people here. That obviously means you know everything about the science behind nutrition and working out and the rest of us should bow to your glory. You do what works for you, great. Personal progress of your own account though for the record doesn't really stand for me on the scientific fact side of things. Regardless of that your attitude about the matter expresses more than I need to know about your credibility.
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You keep harping on this science thing. Show me any science that supports either side. Seriously, you act like there's a study out there validating this...the only thing you'll find is that energy = gains in body mass.

There's nothing supporting any partitioning, any greater effects on hypertrophy, or any effects on fat loss from anything besides energy balance...in other words, eat your calories, get your protein requirements, and the rest doesn't matter. You'll get just as fat on junk as on "clean foods", and short of drugs you cannot change this.

You seem to think there's some magic partitioning effect from clean foods, but sadly the science you stand behind doesn't agree with you.

So you're left with empirical evidence....and empirical evidence says that "most people don't get huge without pounding calories and accepting some fat gains on the way".

Whether you do this clean or dirty is up to you, but it's a lot easier to do, and thus easier to be consistent, when you're not worried about cleantarded eating. If you want to gain a nice 5 lbs a year, fine. Some of us are actually interested in gaining decent amounts of muscle at a faster rate. This means accepting fat gain, and getting cals where you can get them.

So you do what you need to do for yourself, but be careful spouting out to people who don't understand fundamentals to go stuff their face with mcdonald's. I however am no longer going to debate someone who can't understand basic macro breakdowns and how they have importance to gaining muscle. Unprocessed whole foods are better for the body, point blank. There is just no debate there and in turn better for growing muscle. I am not surprised if you were eating chicken and veggies all the time you didn't grow muscle, as that isn't what maximizes gaining muscle. But then I forget you are the expert here right, we are just mere morons.
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You continually make unsubstantiated and unfounded statements, refuse to back them up, then say I don't know what I'm talking about. This is called "anonymous appeal to authority" and is considered a major fallacy of argumentation.

You make statements, refuse to give sources, then call names. Such a wonderfully convincing stance.

Suffice it to say, most of these kids here in the 170 lb or less range that are so obsessed with clean bulking would be a lot more pleased by what would happen with a solid training routine and pounding the Mickey D's. But hey, like I said, some people are happy to remain small and accept 5 lbs of muscle a year to keep fat down.
 
PMDilly said:
You keep harping on this science thing. Show me any science that supports either side. Seriously, you act like there's a study out there validating this...the only thing you'll find is that energy = gains in body mass.

There's nothing supporting any partitioning, any greater effects on hypertrophy, or any effects on fat loss from anything besides energy balance...in other words, eat your calories, get your protein requirements, and the rest doesn't matter. You'll get just as fat on junk as on "clean foods", and short of drugs you cannot change this.

You seem to think there's some magic partitioning effect from clean foods, but sadly the science you stand behind doesn't agree with you.

So you're left with empirical evidence....and empirical evidence says that "most people don't get huge without pounding calories and accepting some fat gains on the way".

Whether you do this clean or dirty is up to you, but it's a lot easier to do, and thus easier to be consistent, when you're not worried about cleantarded eating. If you want to gain a nice 5 lbs a year, fine. Some of us are actually interested in gaining decent amounts of muscle at a faster rate. This means accepting fat gain, and getting cals where you can get them.



You continually make unsubstantiated and unfounded statements, refuse to back them up, then say I don't know what I'm talking about. This is called "anonymous appeal to authority" and is considered a major fallacy of argumentation.

You make statements, refuse to give sources, then call names. Such a wonderfully convincing stance.

Suffice it to say, most of these kids here in the 170 lb or less range that are so obsessed with clean bulking would be a lot more pleased by what would happen with a solid training routine and pounding the Mickey D's. But hey, like I said, some people are happy to remain small and accept 5 lbs of muscle a year to keep fat down.
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Wow broke out some moderate sized words and apparently authority disorders but all the while still ignoring to tell me so fine I will tell you and only because I don't want some 17 yr old kids following your advice.

Lets break it down, first your claim of it being okay to chomp the mcdonalds while building muscle.

High trans fat factor in 90% of the food served there. Trans fat not only can cause major health factors but it slows the building of muscle. Why? Because of the double bonding effect its prevents growth hormones of the muscle so overtime you produce less and less muscle growth and more and more fat storage. So the worst thing to do is combine that bad fatty acid with a carbohydrate. When this happens insulin spikes are high but have no cells to attach to, when that occurs 2nd triggered spikes occur and the cycle continues which leads to fat storage, hunger and eventually unhealthy blood sugar reactions which can and has been linked to diabetes. So to recap we have not only the slow muscle building growth hormones and happy makings for fat storage over muscle building, but the fun health risks that go along with it.

So again why do you want to pass out burgers and fries filled with trans fat.
Oh and it doesn't stop there, chips, crackers, cookies, pizzas, its endless.

I am running out of time but I will be back with more "proof" for the people I am afraid that are listening to you.
 
theleip said:
Wow broke out some moderate sized words and apparently authority disorders but all the while still ignoring to tell me so fine I will tell you and only because I don't want some 17 yr old kids following your advice.
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I'm quaking in fear.

Lets break it down, first your claim of it being okay to chomp the mcdonalds while building muscle.

High trans fat factor in 90% of the food served there. Trans fat not only can cause major health factors but it slows the building of muscle. Why? Because of the double bonding effect its prevents growth hormones of the muscle so overtime you produce less and less muscle growth and more and more fat storage. So the worst thing to do is combine that bad fatty acid with a carbohydrate. When this happens insulin spikes are high but have no cells to attach to, when that occurs 2nd triggered spikes occur and the cycle continues which leads to fat storage, hunger and eventually unhealthy blood sugar reactions which can and has been linked to diabetes. So to recap we have not only the slow muscle building growth hormones and happy makings for fat storage over muscle building, but the fun health risks that go along with it.
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That's a lot of science, and you evidently are only understanding the smallest portion of it.

What growth factors are inhibited? The systemic hormones, or the local growth factors? Where in the signaling cascade are they inhibited? By what doses of trans fats?

Too bad that you're not educated enough to understand what you're regurgitating to me, let alone the fact that it's not an on/off proposition, and that trans fats like anything have a dose-dependent effect.

You also don't even bother to make the assumption that it's anything but the false dilemma you present...you either gorge on junk in unhealthy amounts, or don't eat any at all, not even considering the fact that the 50g of protein and 1000 calories in two double cheeseburgers might actually wind up being more beneficial than the trivial amount of trans fats you'd get from said meal, and that the anabolic effect of the calories will far surpass any inhibition from trans fats in the mechanism you don't even understand enough to explain.

So again why do you want to pass out burgers and fries filled with trans fat.
Oh and it doesn't stop there, chips, crackers, cookies, pizzas, its endless.

I am running out of time but I will be back with more "proof" for the people I am afraid that are listening to you.
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Oh I'm sure it'll be just as awe-inspiring and compelling as this evidence, too.
 
I was really hoping this this thread would STOP people using the term 'clean bulking'

People are getting confused about what it means, I dont believe people should be using this term anyway.

Some people are using it to say that they are only eatting healthy foods.
Well thats just bulking and eatting healthy. So I should be called 'Healthy Bulking'

Others are using it to suggest that they are trying to add muscle but without fat - Well this would just be bulking very slowly. Yes its possible to bulk without adding fat, But it will take longer.


Now you guys stop bickering or I'll bang your heads together like my Nan used to do!!!!
 
R.Lewis said:
I was really hoping this this thread would STOP people using the term 'clean bulking'

People are getting confused about what it means, I dont believe people should be using this term anyway.

Some people are using it to say that they are only eatting healthy foods.
Well thats just bulking and eatting healthy. So I should be called 'Healthy Bulking'

Others are using it to suggest that they are trying to add muscle but without fat - Well this would just be bulking very slowly. Yes its possible to bulk without adding fat, But it will take longer.


Now you guys stop bickering or I'll bang your heads together like my Nan used to do!!!!
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Amen to that!
 
PMDilly said:
I gain just as much fat on 5000 calories of essentials (protein, EFAs) + junk as I do on 5000 calories of chicken and vegetables. The only difference is, I can actually stick to the 5000 calories with junk for long enough to be effective, and it actually will put size on because of consistency.

If anybody can show me a person that's actually gotten big by bulking clean, I'd like to see it. I don't mean gaining 5-10 lbs. Show me somebody that was <160 and got up to 200+ by eating clean.
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Did you read Thib's article on this very subject? I haven't, but from what I'm hearing, eating clean while bulking helps minimize the amount of new fat cells the body creates to accomodate the rate at which the insulin is pumping glycogen to peripheral fat stores.

Once the body creates them, the only way to get rid of them is through surgery.

I could be wrong, like I said, I didn't read the article, but I'm sure there is some truth to eating clean as a means of finer control over how much goes on as fat and how much goes on as muscle.

If the muscle doesn't need fast delivery, it won't accept the rate.
 
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Cynic said:
Did you read Thib's article on this very subject? I haven't, but from what I'm hearing, eating clean while bulking helps minimize the amount of new fat cells the body creates to accomodate the rate at which the insulin is pumping glycogen to peripheral fat stores.

Once the body creates them, the only way to get rid of them is through surgery.

I could be wrong, like I said, I didn't read the article, but I'm sure there is some truth to eating clean as a means of finer control over how much goes on as fat and how much goes on as muscle.

If the muscle doesn't need fast delivery, it won't accept the rate.
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Thib's article says that once the new fat cells are created, they cannot be removed without surgery, correct. It also says that only a certain amount of muscle can be built while bulking, there comes to a point where the food you eat is just stored as fat or crapped out. There is a limit on how much muscle grows each day, each month, each year depending on your specific body, all of the rest is just stored as fat.

His point is that there really is no point of putting a bunch of fat and muscle on at the same time because if you tried to do so, you would put on the same amount of muscle as if you ate clean, yet you would spend the time that would be for building up muscle for cutting down fat.
 
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