Cardio: Good or Bad for Fat Loss?

Curvie Girlie

New member
I am confused!

I thought cardio burned a lot of calories, and therefore you would lose weight.
I also thought that if you throw in 2 days of total body weight training you're going to avoid lean body mass loss, and will lose mostly fat. Then I heard that too much cardio can be bad.

What happens? Does your body prefer to burn muscle before fat? WHY?

And can you maximize fat loss with weight training and High Intensity Interval Training? Why does this work?

Anyone have enough time and patience to help explain this?
Thanks!
 
Both resistance training and hiit keep calories burning long after the exercise session. Since total energy balance is what matters most in weight loss, and not acute energy balance, those types of training are optimal.

That is not to say that LISS cardio does not have its place, but I don't think it is the most optimal for fat loss.

And I know I am giving crappy responses today, I am doing a lot at work and just popping in here on occassion.

Sorry!
 
For me - I know I won't stick with HIIT so I do more sustained cardio and rely on Calories In vs Calories Out for weight loss. It may be slower than the absolutely max I could possibly lose, but I know I can stick with it.
 
you might want to avoid any crazy amounts of cardio if what you are trying to is pack on lean mass. since thats probably not your first intention i wouldnt worry about it.
the right diet will help control muscle loss

this is something i've bookmarked as i was wondering the same thing.
 
For me - I know I won't stick with HIIT so I do more sustained cardio and rely on Calories In vs Calories Out for weight loss. It may be slower than the absolutely max I could possibly lose, but I know I can stick with it.

Right, this is a good point. It is all about what you are able to adopt as a lifestyle habit at the moment. Something is better than nothing. Just because it is not optimal doesn't mean it is useless. I see people do stuff that is far from optimal on a regular basis and get great results.

Also, some people are not conditioned enough for HIIT. If this is the case, LISS is a necessity.
 
Right, this is a good point. It is all about what you are able to adopt as a lifestyle habit at the moment. Something is better than nothing. Just because it is not optimal doesn't mean it is useless. I see people do stuff that is far from optimal on a regular basis and get great results.

Also, some people are not conditioned enough for HIIT. If this is the case, LISS is a necessity.


:) Steve, sometimes I can feel intimidated by the awesomeness of your good advice. After reading another one of your posts I tried HIIT and realized rather quickly that it just isn't for me at this point. I felt a little discouraged for a while, but I'm still working at it at my own pace and let the results speak for themselves.

It's encouraging to me to see you don't disapprove of my meager LISS approach.

Someday I'll try free weights and HIIT again.
 
I will add:

Fat loss should primarily be about nutrition, with cardio a distant second.

You don't have to just do HIIT for your cardio. Too much HIIT will negatively impact leg training. Some steady state cardio is good. A combo of both HIIT and SS cardio is probably most effective.

If you're not losing fat, don't automatically look to more cardio. Look to your nutriton, since 9 times out of 10, that's where your problem is.
 
:) Steve, sometimes I can feel intimidated by the awesomeness of your good advice. After reading another one of your posts I tried HIIT and realized rather quickly that it just isn't for me at this point. I felt a little discouraged for a while, but I'm still working at it at my own pace and let the results speak for themselves.

It's encouraging to me to see you don't disapprove of my meager LISS approach.

Someday I'll try free weights and HIIT again.

Thanks :)

Most of what I say around here is based on the optimal approach. I don't expect ANYONE to start doing everything I say tomorrow. I simply expect people to listen, and work toward training optimally over time. And if you don't, that is fine too. At least you are doing something.
 
Thanks for everything, seems like my plan is near-perfect. Steve you are NOT giving crappy responses today!

Now it's time for my daily walk to the beach with the office dog: )
 
I am having trouble running 2+ times a week due to shin splints.

And I am soooo lazy when it comes to lifting weights. I am a running guy :(
 
I will add:

Fat loss should primarily be about nutrition, with cardio a distant second.

If you're not losing fat, don't automatically look to more cardio. Look to your nutriton, since 9 times out of 10, that's where your problem is.

Everybody, listen up! Because he's totally right, at least from my POV: I have been a Cardio Queen for years, and from 2003-2006 I vasciallated from 146 to 160--and would usually stay at 155 because of my nutrition. Eating all those loaves of Franchese Bread and not realizing how much calories I was consuming made it impossible for me to get my nice layer of fat off. Now I'm around 142 (at the moment) and it's all because my food diary forces me to see the amount of calories I'm eating--so I can watch it. Add that to my cardio and weight training I do anyway, and it's no wonder I've lost over 15 lbs since Christmas!

EAT THAT APPLE
 
Eating all those loaves of Franchese Bread and not realizing how much calories I was consuming made it impossible for me to get my nice layer of fat off. Now I'm around 142 (at the moment) and it's all because my food diary forces me to see the amount of calories I'm eating--so I can watch it.


How true that is....
 
Personally I think cardio is great for fat loss... but... I also think that most people who supposedly partake in "cardio" activities don't approach it aggressively enough. Unfortunately, I really don't think that the majority of the audience of this forum would approach HIIT aggressively enough either, but that's another story. Some people's idea of "giving 100%" is just a wee bit different than others. Seems like alot of people's idea of 100% means to elevate the level to a point that it starts to get a little uncomfortable, then stop.

But anyway, "cardio" has almost come to mean "workout for little girls". There is no way that if you aggressively do a long cardio workout you can say that it's no good for fat loss. If you can, you probably didn't go nowhere near hard or long enough. Why is it that cardio sessions have people leisurely reading a book while they are doing them? You should be sweating like a bear and feeling the need to check the clock constantly because you want that pain to end. Cardio can burn fat well after the initial workout just as well as weights or whatever. Crap, I've been on bike rides that start at 6 PM and last until 8 PM, and at 3 AM I'd still be up watching movies trying to get sleepy because I'm wired as hell and my heart rate is still elevated, yet according to some people the fat burning would have stopped soon after my ride. There's just no way. I just have a real hard time believing that some of these extremely short resistance training workouts is better than a true balls to the wall cardio session.

So basically, go compete in a triathlon then do a 20 minute HIIT session and let me know which one completely kicked your ass and made you feel like you were burning fat for HOURS afterwards. Actually, do it the other way around... the HIIT session could be your warmup. :D
 
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Personally I think cardio is great for fat loss... but... I also think that most people who supposedly partake in "cardio" activities don't approach it aggressively enough. Unfortunately, I really don't think that the majority of the audience of this forum would approach HIIT aggressively enough either, but that's another story. Some people's idea of "giving 100%" is just a wee bit different than others. Seems like alot of people's idea of 100% means to elevate the level to a point that it starts to get a little uncomfortable, then stop.

But anyway, "cardio" has almost come to mean "workout for little girls". There is no way that if you aggressively do a long cardio workout you can say that it's no good for fat loss. If you can, you probably didn't go nowhere near hard or long enough. Why is it that cardio sessions have people leisurely reading a book while they are doing them? You should be sweating like a bear and feeling the need to check the clock constantly because you want that pain to end. Cardio can burn fat well after the initial workout just as well as weights or whatever. Crap, I've been on bike rides that start at 6 PM and last until 8 PM, and at 3 AM I'd still be up watching movies trying to get sleepy because I'm wired as hell and my heart rate is still elevated, yet according to some people the fat burning would have stopped soon after my ride. There's just no way. I just have a real hard time believing that some of these extremely short resistance training workouts is better than a true balls to the wall cardio session.

So basically, go compete in a triathlon then do a 20 minute HIIT session and let me know which one completely kicked your ass and made you feel like you were burning fat for HOURS afterward. Actually, do it the other way around... the HIIT session could be your warm-up. :D

Yes, low intensity, steady state cardio is a fantastic form of exercise. Optimal for the populations that we are speaking to here, as well as the context of their lives? And I would ask this question about the majority of people you find in gyms too. I highly doubt it.

The problem with steady state cardio is simple. In the early stages it is great. However, your body gets more efficient with it, meaning you get less out of it, the more adapted and better your body gets at performing the task. So you need to keep running harder and further. Eventually you reach a point of diminishing returns. Or, and similarly, you reach a point where, to get something out of the exercise of any significance in terms of fat loss, you need to run for a period of time that far outweighs what the average person is willing or able to allot to exercise, especially when resistance training should be thrown into the mix too.

From my point of view, it is all about finding what works for each individual. But when we speak of generalities in forums like this, I do believe it is best to share the most optimal means of reaching goals, and in the case of this forum, these goals are predominantly fat loss.

And with fat loss, total energy expenditure is what matters, so why not pick a form of exercise that creates the largest energy expenditure?

To sit and tell a bunch of people from the gen pop to run miles on top of miles would not get you very far as a coach in this industry, not that those are your intentions.

I will agree with you that most people do not exercise with enough intensity, but that goes for any mode of exercise in my opinion. Many don't know how, or are unwilling to push themselves to the levels that are necessary to reach their goals in a specified period of time. However, I am happy that they are trying. And with consistency comes improvement.

Keeping in mind that our bodies become more and more efficient with steady state cardio, recommending to a general population to run for hours on end is just ludicrous IMO. I could see if you were speaking to a room full of endurance athletes.... but you are not.

But what do I know?

P.S. Nobody said cardio is not good.

P.P.S. For those reading this and who are familiar with my recommendations, please realize that I do not expect unconditioned individuals to go out tomorrow and start performing sessions of HIIT. HIIT obviously requires a baseline level of "fitness" before implementing into your program, just as any other form of high intensity exercise.
 
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Yes, low intensity, steady state cardio is a fantastic form of exercise. Optimal for the populations that we are speaking to here, as well as the context of their lives? And I would ask this question about the majority of people you find in gyms too. I highly doubt it.

Well that's kind of what I was wondering... does "cardio" HAVE to mean low intensity, steady state? I think that kind of stuff is BS.
 
recommending to a general population to run for hours on end is just ludicrous IMO.

I don't think I would seriously consciously truly recommend that, but yeah, the example I gave about the triathlon... that kind of workout is typically considered cardio and mostly slow twitch, yet I think some people would still question it in regards to fat burning because of that, which is pretty ludicrous IMO.

I just think that the low intensity cardio is in fact a bunch of crap, but I just don't understand why the general term "cardio" HAS to mean "low intensity steady state". Why do so many people think that you either have to do this type of cardio, or else immediately bump up to HITT? There is a HUGE middle ground between these two extremes that would work great for most people, and yeah I do think tri's are included in that middle ground, although obviously that's an extreme example. Even here on the forums I've seen people try to bump up from this panzy form of cardio straight to HIIT. It makes no sense. You can't go from intensities low enough that you can read a novel straight to giving 100%.
 
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I don't think I would seriously consciously truly recommend that, but yeah, the example I gave about the triathlon... that kind of workout is typically considered cardio and mostly slow twitch, yet I think some people would still question it in regards to fat burning because of that, which is pretty ludicrous IMO.

I just think that the low intensity cardio is in fact a bunch of crap, but I just don't understand why the general term "cardio" HAS to mean "low intensity steady state". Why do so many people think that you either have to do this type of cardio, or else immediately bump up to HITT? There is a HUGE middle ground between these two extremes that would work great for most people, and yeah I do think tri's are included in that middle ground, although obviously that's an extreme example. Even here on the forums I've seen people try to bump up from this panzy form of cardio straight to HIIT. It makes no sense. You can't go from intensities low enough that you can read a novel straight to giving 100%.

Again, I am not too sure I agree with you.

Look at it like this. If you wanted to make a natural progression, it might look something like this. Low intensity, steady state cardio.... then steady state cardio..... then interval training, then HIIT.

Once you break into steady state cardio, which is what you are suggesting, your body will eventually get used to this. So you must continually increase the duration, and then intensity. Eventually, you reach a point where progressing anymore in the sense of steady stateness, your efforts will be futile in terms of the goal at hand, that being fat loss.

My problem isn't so much in your debate. It is in your assumption that many are suggesting that it is either LISS or HIIT. Come to me individually and I bet you get an individualized program. Each person is going to find an individual starting place on the spectrum that is aside from any generalities that are spoken of here in the forum.

From what I take, you are saying, why can't you just run steady state hard. In its simplest, you are right. The idea is to to keep upping the intensity. What I am telling you is this, again. You body gets more efficient at this type of steady state work, and eventually you have to "up-shift" your workout to be more anaerobic, hence, HIIT.

P.S. Thanks for keeping this a civil debate. Most morons, which you obviously are not, would get emotionally involved in this which is stupid. I am debating the topic at hand, not you as a person. :)
 
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Once you break into steady state cardio, which is what you are suggesting...

I'm not real sure that I am suggestiong this. Maybe I have been subconsciously. I mean, I'm really big on mountain biking, and I'm trying to get into trail running and swimming for Xterras. I would consider my trail time a cardio workout, yet, it's far from steady state since it's kind of hard to blast up a hill without spiking your heart rate, and I'm not sure I'd classify it as an interval workout since it's not really structured. But, with that in mind, maybe I really am leaning towards intervals, or at least a combination. I guess what I mean is that most HIIT workouts that I hear people doing are really short, and I can't imagine that most people here are pushing the envelope to get the benefits they're expecting in that amount of time, yet most "aerobic" workouts I hear about are often 45-60 minutes, doing the exact same thing every day. There's got to be a middle ground there.


So you must continually duration, and then intensity. Eventually, you reach a point where progressing anymore in the sense of steady stateness, your efforts will be futile in terms of the goal at hand, that being fat loss.

But, I think that normally this process would take so long that most people would run out of serious weight to lose before they got to the point that they cannot progress in this manner anymore. I think the bigger problem is that most people who need to lose weight simply don't progress, they do the same thing day in, day out.


My problem isn't so much in your debate. It is in your assumption that many are suggesting that it is either LISS or HIIT.

Based off of things that I've read on this forum, yes, I do have that assumption. Hell, there's even evidence of it on this very thread from Llamabean.


The idea is to to keep upping the intensity. What I am telling you is this, again. You body gets more efficient at this type of steady state work, and eventually you have to "up-shift" your workout to be more anaerobic, hence, HIIT.

I totally agree with this. I am just not convinced that most people make the transition in this manner. That's my problem with preaching the HIIT stuff. I truly don't think that most people, at least here, are incrementing in order to "graduate" to HIIT.

Maybe the problem is that I think my idea of HIIT is a little different than others here. I mean, read the last two issues of Men's Health. When I think of HIIT, I think of L.L. Cool J and the guy from the new "300" movie. I can't imagine that this is applicable to most people on this forum.


P.S. Thanks for keeping this a civil debate. Most morons, which you obviously are not, would get emotionally involved in this which is stupid. I am debating the topic at hand, not you as a person. :)

Just don't ever think that I am personally attacking you, I just have a habit of questioning everything.
 
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