On dial up so I didn't load the links. I'll take your word for them being well built. I'm not sure what your trying to prove, though.
Your previous statement:
Progress may soon be stunted or never really begin at all. For some people many body weight exercises are never enough load to begin with.
I was showing evidence of individuals that work exclusively with their own bodyweight that are exceptionally strong and muscular, which suggests that the idea that bodyweight training is limited, that "progress may soon be stunted," or that body weight exercises may "never offer enough load to begin with" for some people (which I will assume means moderate-advanced lifters) may not be entirely true.
Are you asking me specifically?
Anyway, My favorite "push up progression" has to be HSPU's.
It was a response to the hypothetical situation that you had written that i had quoted. Sorry for the confusion.
Yes, I'm not arguing they can't be beneficial. As I think I made clear. I'm not arguing anything other than if weights are available. Use weights.
Your right, it can be done. Again though, if weights are available it is likely a "better" option. I don't think you disagree.
Your argument, posted originally:
You won't develop much muscle mass from body weight movements.Its not enough external force to encourage growth.
I could go into why its not physiologically possible to gain much mass from body weight only. However, I'm tired so you'll just have to take my word for it.
This is what i was objecting to. i didn't say that you claimed no benefit, but rather to the statement that bodyweight exercise will produce little/no mass development, as well as it not being "physiologically possible" to do it. I posted evidence to the contrary, as well as reasoning for doing so in response to this statement:
There is no point to sticking with bodyweight only if weights are available.
If you do I would have to ask why you use external weights for your clients and yourself.
Variety, convenience, and accessibility, although you might be surprised at how many bodyweight exercises I actually
do use in my routines. Trainers like Craig Ballentyne use them exclusively and also see excellent results with their clients, so i don't see a problem with that at all...
I'm not sure what your trying to say here. I said the exact same thing you said (in bold). Not sure where I said physiological changes wouldn't occur at the same time?
No, your statement read that a person incapable of doing a single push up would be neuromuscularly inefficient, and once those neural adaptations were made the exercise would become obsolete. I disagreed with both the premise (that neuromuscular adaptation was the primary cause of the initial weakness) as well as the proposed outcome (that the effect would be little/no muscle mass gains) and wrote why: it was an oversimplification of the process.
I'm just giving an arbitrary time line. Regardless, I didn't say anything about "15+" push ups? Not sure where that came from.
12-15 reps/set would be at the end range of classic hypertrophy schemes, so once the trainee was able to produce 15+ reps/set, the effect on muscle hypertrophy would be lessened; hence, 15+ reps.
