Being a Princess and all...

[theleip]

You just keep taking the fun out it - I LIKE clean, simple answers!


OK - so I'll *gradually* increase my calories with clean foods (I have the link for LV's list).

Are there strength training exercises I can do outside the gym without purchasing equipment at this point (I have no idea how stupid that question may have just sounded)

By a gradual increase (when adding more activity) I would go at a rate of 50 calories a week to start off. Judge how things are going, you may need to go from say 1300-1350 and stay there a week or even 2 weeks. It just depends. If you are still losing weight and the energy is getting better increase some more and then more.

For some exercises here are some great home movements you can do without any weights. I will provide some links in a little, running a tad short on time but they are coming

-Wall sits
-Superman's
-Push ups
-Chair/stair dips
-Bridges/couch bridges
-Planks
-Pllanks with leg extensions
-Lunges (progress to weighted lunges with household items)
-Squats (progress to one-legged squats)
-Split Squats
-Step ups
-Diamond push ups

From these alone you can get in a solid routine for a while especially considering you haven't been doing any previous work in resistance. In fact a lot of my home client do most of these moves.

 

[Steve]

My recommends for caloric increase are to only tie in with increase of energy output (hince why I said if waiting for spring then well wait till then to increase however looking back I don't think I made that clear.)

When I work with caloric increase it is a slow and steady pace. Every week is different in regards to weight training, ratios, caloric intake, aerobic and so forth. It is different for every person. So yes my guidelines are very general and based. The principal though is the following..

-Slow increase of calories at no more than 100 week (usually it is 50)
-Heavy focus on weight training in the beginning stages
-Less focus on cardio till the later stages
-Caloric bouncing added when needed
-Ratio bouncing
-Heavy focus on flexibility and postural repair for dynamic alignment
-Plenty of rest bouts

It all depends on the state of the body when program starts. For example a underweight anorexic not look to lose weight but increase energy and healthy eating has a different plan then someone stuck needing to repair their metabolism that still has fat to lose.

In a few months I will be working with a local metabolic tester to preform specific studies on this repair process with better cohesive data to present.

But no I would not recommend an increase of calories unless activity was as well increased and even then it should be at the right intervals.

If the main area of concern is repairing the hormonal disruptions that ensue from low caloric dieting chronically, my main focus is getting the NET energy levels elevated. If you slowly increase calories, which I most certainly agree with, and at the same time, start fiddling around with their exercise programs.... especially by adding a lot of anaerobic activity that they are not accustomed too, their energy demands are going to go up significantly. So, in the end, you are left with a net energy wash in terms of increasing it. Sure, you added more energy through diet, but you also increased energy demand, which would do little for getting these hormonal disruptions settled.

I look forward to hearing what you find out from the metabolic tester. How long will you have access to the tester?

Also, personally, I don't like working with solid numbers in terms of incremental increases in caloric intakes. I prefer percentages simply due to the fact that everyone is going to be starting at different caloric points, some higher, some lower. For very chronic under-eaters, based on my experience 5-10% works well.

I love the discussion Leigh, and look forward to hearing from you!!

 

[live4fitness]

Very interesting

What has worked for me is having a cheat day. My husband does 2 carb loading days for his body building contests. This helps with the platues. As least for us it does so your metabolism doesn't slow down.

My TDEE is 2257 and I eat ~1500 a day and of course workout with weights and cardio and loose ~1-2 pounds a week. I have lost 60 heading for 20 more

 

[Steve]

Very interesting

What has worked for me is having a cheat day. My husband does 2 carb loading days for his body building contests. This helps with the platues. As least for us it does so your metabolism doesn't slow down.

My TDEE is 2257 and I eat ~1500 a day and of course workout with weights and cardio and loose ~1-2 pounds a week. I have lost 60 heading for 20 more

Totally different subject here. We are talking about chronic under-eaters, not body builders. Your hubbies carb loads are wise, but still, irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

 

[M2M]

I did take a look at my weight loss to date and it's worked out to a little over 1.5 pounds a week for a year (that includes weeks of not losing too) - and there was also a time I didn't track as well as I could have (read: was lazy)

So I'm sure my calories have been higher.

Perhaps I haven't sealed my fate of being a chronic under eater - and Leigh, thanks again for the suggestion of exercises - that was EXACTLY what I was hoping to find out. Fortunately, I've been doing many of those exercises

So while I'm tracking calories carefully, I will slowly up them bit by bit and continue to do my SS cardio, exercises & try and throw in the HIIT (still need to go back over Steve's posts on that).

All in all, I feel good - better then I have in 20 years, so I know I'm not too far off base

You guys, thanks for all your input!
(and if there's other things you wanted to say, please feel free to mention them).

 

[wishes]

I have to admit im with HB on this one. Unless you have been on the heavy end of weight loss its impossible to understand where we're comming from (which is possibly why people have been somewhat hostile towards the 'trainers' here).

Its one thing to loose a couple lb or 10 to do a competition, its another to be able to stick with it long term and loose more than 100lb.
Theres a whole lot of emotional other stuff and problems that go along with being so overweight and its more than just diet.
Its sorting out your 'triggers' or what sets you off, its dealing with WHY you got so fat in the first place. Its not just the diet and exercise.

 

[live4fitness]

Totally different subject here. We are talking about chronic under-eaters, not body builders. Your hubbies carb loads are wise, but still, irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Now wait a minute. M2M was talking about a platue-REMEMBER. And yes these thins help with platues as well as some other things.

And i would like to know how you can tell someone if they are over eating or under eating if you don't even know what there BMR or TDEE is? You need to know that to help people out. And don't give me any bull on this. i have personally helped and are still helping people achive their weight loss goals as I am achiving mine by being an educated/hands on coach.

Just because you have muscles and work out does NOT make you an expert.

 

[wishes]

Oh i was refering to what HB and Steve said rather than M2m, i fear we are hijacking her thread lol

Ill stay out of it now anyway

 

[live4fitness]

Okay I appolagize I never went really far back and found out leigh did that. So again I appolagize for my above statements.

 

[M2M]

Now wait a minute. M2M was talking about a platue-REMEMBER. And yes these thins help with platues as well as some other things.

No, I wasn't talking about a plateau. I was talking about the problems that occur when people have had too low of calories for too long and the ramifications.

And i would like to know how you can tell someone if they are over eating or under eating if you don't even know what there BMR or TDEE is?

I gave them a fairly thorough break down of what I've been doing.

You need to know that to help people out. And don't give me any bull on this. i have personally helped and are still helping people achive their weight loss goals as I am achiving mine by being an educated/hands on coach.

I'm glad you are helping people out. I'm glad you're losing weight.

I've lost 77 pounds. Does that make me an expert? No. Does that mean there isn't more I can learn? No.

Just because you have muscles and work out does NOT make you an expert.

Are you making the assumption that because he has muscles and works out that he doesns't have information of value? Do you know or not know if he works in this field? Is there a reason you're being antagonistic?

I just don't get it...we sit on this forum and listen to people left and right say what's worked for them, what hasn't. We've read some really ridiculous stuff in regards to losing weight.

Now, when there are people who do have a fitness back ground - there's an antagonistic attitude when they offer their input or advice (EVEN when they've been specifically asked).

I simply can't stop shaking my head here.

 

[live4fitness]

I did appolagize and I meant it. I was out of line. Congrats on your weight loss that is awesome and I know it feel real good. And by the way I have lost 60 pounds. The thing with me was we had to do a lot of research and talk to a lot of professionals out there in the fitness world to help me. The general rule didn't fit for me, we had to be very specific and that is what I have found has worked for so many others struggling. I will try not to be a big know it all. and again I appolagize.

 

[theleip]

Now wait a minute. M2M was talking about a platue-REMEMBER. And yes these thins help with platues as well as some other things.

Actually she was talking about getting back to a healthy caloric intake level. What we are discussing is the technique of doing such with limited fat regain due to a high % caloric deficit.

And i would like to know how you can tell someone if they are over eating or under eating if you don't even know what there BMR or TDEE is? You need to know that to help people out. And don't give me any bull on this. i have personally helped and are still helping people achive their weight loss goals as I am achiving mine by being an educated/hands on coach.

Both me and Steve are Certified Trainers. I am not sure of Steve's exact Cert details but I am NASM-CPT certified and AFPA-NC Certified. We also did go into both her BMR levels and TDEE (activity levels). Granted obviously not with use of machines but that is not done in person anyway unless you are working with specific facilities. That leaves us to you "best guess" calculations. For best guess they are usually pretty accurate for what BMR levels SHOULD be under correct circumstances of body care.

Just because you have muscles and work out does NOT make you an expert.

No but our certifications don't hurt now do they? Also I like that everyone assumes that none of us have ever had a struggle on achieving physical goals. I personally have had to BUST my tail to achieve what I have gotten so far. I don't drink, I eat clean, I exercise diligently, I rest at proper intervals, I train smart and educated. I have allergies, intolerances,and hormone challenges. I do not by any means have the perfect body system or am "genetically gifted".

 

[theleip]

If the main area of concern is repairing the hormonal disruptions that ensue from low caloric dieting chronically, my main focus is getting the NET energy levels elevated. If you slowly increase calories, which I most certainly agree with, and at the same time, start fiddling around with their exercise programs.... especially by adding a lot of anaerobic activity that they are not accustomed too, their energy demands are going to go up significantly. So, in the end, you are left with a net energy wash in terms of increasing it. Sure, you added more energy through diet, but you also increased energy demand, which would do little for getting these hormonal disruptions settled.

I look forward to hearing what you find out from the metabolic tester. How long will you have access to the tester?

Also, personally, I don't like working with solid numbers in terms of incremental increases in caloric intakes. I prefer percentages simply due to the fact that everyone is going to be starting at different caloric points, some higher, some lower. For very chronic under-eaters, based on my experience 5-10% works well.

I love the discussion Leigh, and look forward to hearing from you!!

Sorry for the delay on this Steve. Time has not been a friend this past week.

When I said heavy focus on weight training what is meant by that (what I should have stated more clearly) is focus on corrective/balance training with resistance (sometimes by mere bodyweight). Basically these are not BB squats or military presses going on here. These are...

-Planks
-Ball Cobras
-Walking lunges
-Body bridges
-Single Leg Toe Touches
etc

Very basic but functional resistance movements with easy progressions.

A basic 12 week program (very generalized of course) would be laid out like this. Client is taking in 1400 calories a day. Their maintenance calories with activity is 3400 calories. The goal is to raise caloric intake to 2200 or 35% of caloric intake at maintenance level with included activity. Each week would meet with a 5% increase of caloric intake from previous week. I used numbers as an example to merely simplify things but I like that you want specifics) Week one would be rest. Week two would start to included training in specific bouts. You wouldn't hit cardio till week 6. After that week would be another rest week while still continuing an increase from previous caloric amount but now by 3-5%. Then so on and so forth with various changes and transitions and monitoring till you have reach caloric goal. Ha basically it is very specific, but it needs to be IF the goal is to lessen weight gain while in the process of metabolic/hormone repair. It would then reach with a final re-feed of 10% increase while at complete rest. After that training would change or commence back towards more aggressive means if needed.

Again that is a very very generalized abstract of the program.

I will be conducting the tests later on for 14 weeks. I will basically start when I can recruit the proper subjects. It of course will not be the grandest of studies being I can only test resting metabolic rates (not muscle oxygen uptake or SMR) but still I feel it should present some good results and details which ever way it goes. There will be 4 groups overall. I will certainly keep updated and post all the results. Who knows could prove myself wrong but thus far in my clients it has worked well. This method has been tested on 2 "finished" clients and on 4 current clients. 2 of them have progressed past the repair stage and are just in a regular deficit now progressing with fat loss at a healthy rate. Both had previous been in plateau. So we will see how it goes.

 

[theleip]

I did take a look at my weight loss to date and it's worked out to a little over 1.5 pounds a week for a year (that includes weeks of not losing too) - and there was also a time I didn't track as well as I could have (read: was lazy)

So I'm sure my calories have been higher.

Perhaps I haven't sealed my fate of being a chronic under eater - and Leigh, thanks again for the suggestion of exercises - that was EXACTLY what I was hoping to find out. Fortunately, I've been doing many of those exercises

So while I'm tracking calories carefully, I will slowly up them bit by bit and continue to do my SS cardio, exercises & try and throw in the HIIT (still need to go back over Steve's posts on that).

All in all, I feel good - better then I have in 20 years, so I know I'm not too far off base

You guys, thanks for all your input!
(and if there's other things you wanted to say, please feel free to mention them).

Just wanted to say you are welcome for that advice and I wish you nothing but the best in achieving your goals. Basically all I ever what from any of my clients or people I am trying to help is for them to be able to live life well while achieving their goals and to never think any goal isn't achievable. We are in short about trying to make dreams come true, just in the right way.

 

[Steve]

Also I like that everyone assumes that none of us have ever had a struggle on achieving physical goals. I personally have had to BUST my tail to achieve what I have gotten so far. I don't drink, I eat clean, I exercise diligently, I rest at proper intervals, I train smart and educated. I have allergies, intolerances,and hormone challenges. I do not by any means have the perfect body system or am "genetically gifted".

You know, I have wanted to say something along these lines for a few days, thanks Leigh. Wishes, you made a comment above regarding the fact that it is not just nutrition and exercise, but also the mind. I REALLY do believe that it is the mind first and foremost for ANY of us, not just very over weight individuals.

Humans, through natural inclinations, look for the easy way out. It is what we are programmed to do. It is the backbone of most new technologies.

Do any of you (not just wishes) think that it is easy for me to eat 7 meals each and every day of my life? Do you think I love the fact that every 2-3 hours it is time to eat something else? Do you think that it is easy for me to put the time in the gym that is necessary to reach my goals while working 2 jobs, owning a home, having very little personal time, and still being socially active?

The answers are no. But I have learned to control my mind to work for me, rather than against me. The body that I have is a product of a decade of hard, strict work. When I say a decade, I mean it. I have busted my a$% for a very long time. And it has not been easy by any stretch of the imagination.

I too, am certainly not genetically gifted. If I did not put the effort in, I would probably be down around 150 lbs standing 6 foot tall. That is skin and bones in my opinion. Instead, I have fought my genetics and packed on 40+ lbs of muscle. Most here don't know what it is like to struggle to gain weight. But I promise you, it is just as challenging as losing weight, if not more. And there are a lot of "mind games" at play in my situation too.

Does any of this mean anything to any of you? Probably not, but if we are all going to start claiming how uniquely difficult our journeys are due to our pasts and minds, I might as well hop on the wagon.

 

[Steve]

Sorry for the delay on this Steve. Time has not been a friend this past week.

When I said heavy focus on weight training what is meant by that (what I should have stated more clearly) is focus on corrective/balance training with resistance (sometimes by mere bodyweight). Basically these are not BB squats or military presses going on here. These are...

-Planks
-Ball Cobras
-Walking lunges
-Body bridges
-Single Leg Toe Touches
etc

Very basic but functional resistance movements with easy progressions.

A basic 12 week program (very generalized of course) would be laid out like this. Client is taking in 1400 calories a day. Their maintenance calories with activity is 3400 calories. The goal is to raise caloric intake to 2200 or 35% of caloric intake at maintenance level with included activity. Each week would meet with a 5% increase of caloric intake from previous week. I used numbers as an example to merely simplify things but I like that you want specifics) Week one would be rest. Week two would start to included training in specific bouts. You wouldn't hit cardio till week 6. After that week would be another rest week while still continuing an increase from previous caloric amount but now by 3-5%. Then so on and so forth with various changes and transitions and monitoring till you have reach caloric goal. Ha basically it is very specific, but it needs to be IF the goal is to lessen weight gain while in the process of metabolic/hormone repair. It would then reach with a final re-feed of 10% increase while at complete rest. After that training would change or commence back towards more aggressive means if needed.

Again that is a very very generalized abstract of the program.

I will be conducting the tests later on for 14 weeks. I will basically start when I can recruit the proper subjects. It of course will not be the grandest of studies being I can only test resting metabolic rates (not muscle oxygen uptake or SMR) but still I feel it should present some good results and details which ever way it goes. There will be 4 groups overall. I will certainly keep updated and post all the results. Who knows could prove myself wrong but thus far in my clients it has worked well. This method has been tested on 2 "finished" clients and on 4 current clients. 2 of them have progressed past the repair stage and are just in a regular deficit now progressing with fat loss at a healthy rate. Both had previous been in plateau. So we will see how it goes.

Haha, now, I have respect for you. Or I should say, more respect for you than I had before. I doubt you will be proving yourself wrong, simply because what you have laid out here looks very much along the lines what I, myself, have been doing for years with my starved, overweight clients with success. Good for you for being so "in the know" so early in your career! I certainly applaud that.

And thanks for the details. I was making assumptions of how you were handling the process, and they were wrong.

 

[Steve]

Now wait a minute. M2M was talking about a platue-REMEMBER. And yes these thins help with platues as well as some other things.

And i would like to know how you can tell someone if they are over eating or under eating if you don't even know what there BMR or TDEE is? You need to know that to help people out. And don't give me any bull on this. i have personally helped and are still helping people achive their weight loss goals as I am achiving mine by being an educated/hands on coach.

Just because you have muscles and work out does NOT make you an expert.

Ha, I know you have apologized for not reading the whole thread before posting. But some of these words were personally directed at me. And they actually seriously made me LOL. So you honestly believe, after all of my posts on this forum, that I am just some "meat head" with muscles that likes to hear myself speak? If so, that is fine, I just find it amusing.

Hahahah, I just read your post one more time. Too funny. Such ludicrous assumptions.

 

[emilymarie137]

Congrats on losing so much weight already! Yeah it is nice when you get in a ruitine of eating certain things every day. Maybe you should bump up the calories just a small bit. Snack on fruit and stuff. Someone your size needs to maybe eat around 1400-1500 so you don't slow your metabolism down. I love walks also, they refresh my mind so much. I would suggest doing a little more weight training like 3 times a week with heavier weights. And resistance training. Calisthenics are also great. I'm no doctor but thats just what I think. lol. You are doing great though!
have an awesome day!