Advice & Thoughts on my routine, please

[BikeSwimLaugh]

Hey guys...

This seems to be a more serious section and lesser pounded by newbies. As many of you may know, I've been working-out really hard, dieting and making great progress....but I've been having an issue lately. I'd like some thoughts from many of you who have been at it longer.

First, a bit of intro-info. Some people diet and lose weight by calorie restriction. Most dieters will dial-in some cardio and even some weight-training to supplement their "program". I started as a dieter, I just wanted to lose weight, burn fat and get it done.

Okay, here's the thing: somewhere along the way I transitioned into a much more hardcore training regimen where I'm training more like an athlete...this is probably why I continue to see small incremental losses on the scale YET solid & continual losses in body-fat%.

See....here's my problem: If I don't perceive "pain", then I presume there's no gain. Most of us support that theory & approach, but at this point my intensity is now driving in too many different directions. Let me see if I can explain:

Maintaining a solid calorie deficit for weight-loss is good....but my routines are becoming so long and/or intense that I can feel my body at a loss of energy. I'm not eating enough, but the dieter in my compels me to stay lean.

My weight-lifting....I keep increasing the weight and unless I feel a burn or pain I feel as though I'm not pushing hard enough and getting enough out of my routine. People are accussing me of looking like a body-builder and telling me my arms are getting huge (not Mreik or LV huge, but by comparison to any other father in my kids school.....yeah, bigger then most). I can't lay-off the weight, I need to feel the burn and I like the size, especially now as the fat is melting away to reveal the muscle....BUT this muscle is screwing-up my racquetball swing and carrying all this chest-weight really sucks when I try to bike up these hills: I'm carrying like 50 pounds more weight then most any other cyclist my height. And let's not even get into my swimming....try swimming 2 miles the day after you hit weights.....

My biking, spinning, running & swimming....it used to beat me to do an hour, but in trying to chase my need to feel "depleted & worked" I've been going longer and longer. Here again, my diet doesn't support my current 3.5-4 hour routine. But my point is, to feel like I've worked hard, I now need to go this long and it's taking a lot of time out of my week and it's finally taking a toll on my body (joints, etc).

In the beginning it was fine to incorporate all these aspects into my routine (cut calories, do weights, do cardio)....but in my compulsive need to chase that feeling of exhaustion and intensity, things have progressed to the point where I feel these things are in conflict.

You don't see marathon runners doing 350-pound bench presses, you don't see body-builders doing triathlons, and you don't see these sorts of athletes running a 30% calorie deficit day in & day out.

I can really feel my body wanting to sleep more, eat more and rest more....and yet I keep pressing on. I need to back-off, but in doing so I just won't feel like I'm putting-in 100%. A 2 hour bike ride does very little for me. A one mile swim is no biggy. Lesser weights don't give me that burn. My routine has expanded to such times & intensity that the conflict is just too evident. My wife, nutritionist and most my friends are telling me I've become obsessive & excessive and need to back-off, but this is the only thing that seems to get results: finally I'm seeing solid weight-loss and fat-loss, this is what it takes to get my body to respond. I feel like I'm able to reset the proverbial thermostat and I'm moving my bodies inclination from being a heavy person to a fit & thinner person. I like my routine, I enjoy the results and I even feel addicted to it....but I'm also feeling the conflict of different disciplines and it seems like I need to choose or change something.

But I think my biggest problem, which I'd like addressed, is that (much like a drug-user) I don't feel I'm putting-in the effort and making progress unless I hit that intensity that makes me feel sore, worn, depleted and worked....and to achieve that means a lot of time, energy and it's now taking a toll on my body in terms of sleep, joints, etc. It just seems like my body is perpetually sore & recovering. Part of me says stay the course another 4-6 months and we'll be "there" but another part of me (my body) is telling me I need to ease-up in some manner....I'm just not sure how to do that. How do you reduce 30% but still put-in 100%.

Thanks

 

[tsilcyc]

You realize you didn't ask a single question.

 

[g8r80]

I'm not in any position to answer as I feel the same way.

 

[Chillen]

My friend, BSL. I love ya, brotha.

But, you have to ask a question or a series of questions to obtain a specific opinion.

Best regards toward your continued success,

Chillen

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

LOL....I guess I'm more concerned with describing all the detials of the situation. Quite often I post something with a medium-amount of information and then I spend more time further explaining rather then discussing the issue. The questions are there, G8 got it, but let me highlight...and in some cases it's more of a concern open for comment rather then a question....

If I don't perceive "pain", then I presume there's no gain.

Do we need "pain" in order to make a difference? If I didn't work heavy weights or just took a slower & more casual pace to my ride...I won't "feel" the pain or exertion, but will I still be getting the benefits? At this point I don't really want to add or build more muscle, but when I lift, I can't help but grab the heaviest weights I can handle and move 'em till it hurts/burns. My rides feel too easy and unsubstantial unless I do 2.5 hours. So here's the issue: Unless I perceive the pain, I presume there's no gain. Do you guys relate to that? How do you deal with it??

You don't see marathon runners doing 350-pound bench presses, you don't see body-builders doing triathlons, and you don't see these sorts of athletes running a 30% calorie deficit day in & day out.

Do I need to choose just one discipline and run that course? I just feel weird, I'm by a good margin the biggest chested/armed guy on the trail...so if I wanna bike, I need to lay-off the weights....and the bulk is screwing with my quickness needed on the racquetball court. Should I just keep at it and be the multi-hybrid athlete or what?

I can really feel my body wanting to sleep more, eat more and rest more....and yet I keep pressing on. I need to back-off, but in doing so I just won't feel like I'm putting-in 100%.

My discipline & training tell me to push-on....but I'm concerned (like gymnast or body-builders in later years) that I'll regret the wear & tear I'm putting on my body today. Am I wearing-out my heart valves? Is my cartlidge being worn thin? More to the point: I'm feeling the stress on my body....do I just press my body to adapt or is there some point where it's excessive and detrimental? How do you guys deal & cope with this thought/issue?

 

[flounder911]

Im in no way a professional on this subject, but it really is easy to tell that you NEED to slow down a bit, your body will tell you what it needs, and if you can physically feel your body begging you for sleep, and rest than listen to your body... its very VERY good at letting you know exactly what it needs...

If your joints are getting sore than maybe thats another good reason to slow it down a bit, no reason at all to hurt yourself right...

other than that i really dont have any opinions on any of your other questions, but listening to your body is something i suggest

 

[tsilcyc]

I'm going to speak as how it relates to me...

Unless I perceive the pain, I presume there's no gain. Do you guys relate to that? How do you deal with it??

I had this mentality a long time ago when I first started running. I hurt all of the time, I constantly felt tired, and I was slow. I've stopped doing that and I'm faster now.

There's a saying... make the easy days EASY and the hard days HARD. If you make every day a hard day when it's time for a really hard day, you cannot give it everything. The easy days are not just for aerobic base, they are also active recovery days. If you're making them all hard, you cannot effectively recover.

Do I need to choose just one discipline and run that course? I just feel weird, I'm by a good margin the biggest chested/armed guy on the trail...so if I wanna bike, I need to lay-off the weights....and the bulk is screwing with my quickness needed on the racquetball court. Should I just keep at it and be the multi-hybrid athlete or what?

What is your goal? Is it to be the biggest chested biker on the trail, the biggest chested person in the gym, or the fastest biker? By answering that, you can answer your own question. For me personally, extra muscle is just extra weight that I don't want to carry around.

My discipline & training tell me to push-on....but I'm concerned (like gymnast or body-builders in later years) that I'll regret the wear & tear I'm putting on my body today. Am I wearing-out my heart valves? Is my cartlidge being worn thin? More to the point: I'm feeling the stress on my body....do I just press my body to adapt or is there some point where it's excessive and detrimental? How do you guys deal & cope with this thought/issue?

I work with a cardiologist and I always joke with him about "breaking my heart". He assures me nothing I am doing is going to break my heart.

As far as the rest of my body, I feel that I'm probably going to have something surface in the future that will have been caused by what I'm doing right now. But is the answer just to stop and lay on the couch and protect myself? So then I get fat from not doing anything and I'm doing different damage. This is how I perceive it. I'll take my current approach and deal with hips, knees, ankles, shoulders, or whatever else. But for now, I'm 41 and things are working pretty well so...

I know my body pretty well and I know the difference between "pushing through when I should" and "I probably shouldn't be doing this". I tend to not do the latter so much but will on occasion if I think it's important. My most recent example of that is training in excessive heat.

 

[g8r80]

Am I wearing-out my heart valves? Is my cartlidge being worn thin? More to the point: I'm feeling the stress on my body....do I just press my body to adapt or is there some point where it's excessive and detrimental? How do you guys deal & cope with this thought/issue?

Steve, my cardiologist knows I do triathlons and is okay with that and as you will recall I do not have my original aortic valve; I have the aortic valve and aorta from a cadaver. So, if anyone should worry about cardiac issues, it would be me and I don't. Of course, I am under closer scrutiny than most, so that gives me some comfort.

TSI, do you have a cardiac issue?

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

TSI, do you have a cardiac issue?

Not sure what "TSI" is....but the question is apparent.

No, I don't have a cardiac condition that I'm aware of.....but I've been heavy all my life and I'm under the impression that we can stop additional build-up in our arteries and to some degree improve things....but once it's there (the plaque, build-up, etc)....it's there.

 

[tsilcyc]

TSI, do you have a cardiac issue?

Negative. One of my clients has cardio's on staff. It's nice for asking silly questions.

 

[tsilcyc]

Not sure what "TSI" is....but the question is apparent.

No, I don't have a cardiac condition that I'm aware of.....but I've been heavy all my life and I'm under the impression that we can stop additional build-up in our arteries and to some degree improve things....but once it's there (the plaque, build-up, etc)....it's there.

TSI is me.

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

TSI is me.

LOL.....got it.

Im in no way a professional on this subject, but it really is easy to tell that you NEED to slow down a bit, your body will tell you what it needs, and if you can physically feel your body begging you for sleep, and rest than listen to your body... its very VERY good at letting you know exactly what it needs...

I entirely agree. Today I auto-woke at 7am to go riding...but the weather seemed crappy so I decided to go back to bed (wondering if I could get back to sleep).....not only did I find sleep, I slept HARD and like a log another 3.5 hours and woke-up hungry too!

LOL.....I know people who seem to shriek a battle cry "If you aren't puking, passing-out or dying....then you ain't training hard enough". Somewhere along the lines I suppose I adopted some sort of hardcore push, but as I indicated above, my routines are getting longer and more intense and now I can feel by body talking back. I'm gonna take your advice, I just hope progress will continue. It just seems like it takes HUGE effort to make just a little bit of difference...so anything short of intense seems futile, but the degree of maintaining the intensity has become excessive, obsessive and yes; my body is telling me I'm going too hard, too long and I need to find a way to moderate.

As for my goals...I just don't know. I can't explain why I don't know....I just know that I wanted to lose weight and so a calorie deficit, weight-training and cardio all became part of my regimen. I can only define what I want:

I want to get leaner and appear more svelt...

I want to be able to ask 20 woman in a row if I need to lose any more weight and I want each one to essentially say "hell no, you look great as you are"

It's tough to explain, but this thread has helped me.

 

[ophix]

You answer most of your own questions and concerns in your original post.

Maintaining a solid calorie deficit for weight-loss is good....but my routines are becoming so long and/or intense that I can feel my body at a loss of energy. I'm not eating enough, but the dieter in my compels me to stay lean.

My biking, spinning, running & swimming....it used to beat me to do an hour, but in trying to chase my need to feel "depleted & worked" I've been going longer and longer. Here again, my diet doesn't support my current 3.5-4 hour routine.

In these last 2 quotes, you've essentially stated that you are starving yourself to stay lean, because of the "dieter in you". Despite how you want to look at you statements, you've just said that your body doesn't feel like it's being supported enough by your diet. This is starvation, no two ways about it. You're also doing it to strive for absolute perfection. You have to admit that this mentality shares some traits with an anorexic mindset. Not that you are anorexic, but I'm saying that your perceptions and goals may be a bit irrational and abusive in your ambition.

But my point is, to feel like I've worked hard, I now need to go this long and it's taking a lot of time out of my week and it's finally taking a toll on my body (joints, etc).

If you're hurting your joints, you are not making real progress. You may be building muscle, but your strength is more than just muscle. You need those tendens and connective tissues in the joints, or else all that muscle is useless. You can build all the muscle you want, but if you don't give your body the time to adjust fully, your joints will be supporting far more weight than they're built up to support.

You don't see marathon runners doing 350-pound bench presses, you don't see body-builders doing triathlons, and you don't see these sorts of athletes running a 30% calorie deficit day in & day out.

Exactly, because the training regiment to do that would be extremely demanding as is, let alone trying to train for all categories. NOBODY lives on a 30% calorie deficit every day. The point of a calorie deficit is to give your body less than it needs so that it can get the extra energy from burning fat. If you expect yourself to live off a deficit of nutrition, eventually the deficit will stack up on your body. Yes, you get energy from fat. But that fat is pretty void of nutrition. Instead of getting that 30% daily calories from vitamins and macronutrience which your body uses, you've been getting it by cannibalizing yourself to create a basic energy molecule. This is why it's called a "deficiency" and not "body-fat based nutritional resourcing"

I can really feel my body wanting to sleep more, eat more and rest more....and yet I keep pressing on. I need to back-off, but in doing so I just won't feel like I'm putting-in 100%.

Anorexics feel very similar about their situation.

My wife, nutritionist and most my friends are telling me I've become obsessive & excessive and need to back-off, but this is the only thing that seems to get results

Again, you share some of your mentality with an anorexic.

I like my routine, I enjoy the results and I even feel addicted to it

You could be. Anything is addictive. Television, internet, exercise, food, sleep, lip gloss, cooking, reading, anything. And believe me, these addictions can be just as strong as a drug addiction in the right person. There's many hormonal changes in the body, and the brain does undergo chemical changes and changes in activity specific to exercising. It's quite possible you've formed an addiction to overworking yourself.

For the other guy, TSI, who seems to be in a similar situation...

As far as the rest of my body, I feel that I'm probably going to have something surface in the future that will have been caused by what I'm doing right now. But is the answer just to stop and lay on the couch and protect myself? So then I get fat from not doing anything and I'm doing different damage. This is how I perceive it.

That's a pretty extreme perception. Do you think a beer belly and plumber's crack just form overnight? Given the extent at which you've pushed your health, it would probably take at LEAST a couple months of absolutely horrible diet to make you fat. Remember, your muscles aren't the only things making your health. You have connective tissues in your joints which might not repair as quickly as your muscles, and which may really need a rest.

2 weeks to a month off (by "off" I don't mean lying on the couch doing nothing, you can still walk and move enough just so you aren't stationary all day) while eating properly, you will not get fat, or unhealthy, and you wont destroy your physique. You may lose a little bit of muscle, but with the strength you'll regain in your joints you'll be able to push that muscle further than it ever was without having to worry about your joints in the process.

Let me just say though, you guys win at exercising. You've excelled at what's probably the hardest part of exercise. I guarantee your physique would crush mine. However, I am slightly concerned that your determination and ambitions are border-lining the area of an obsessive disorder.

By the sounds of it, you're working out and pushing your physique like this to achieve basic satisfaction from your exercises. Unless you're making good physical progress, you aren't happy with your efforts. May I suggest a shift in perception?

Rather than achieving that satisfaction from seeing what you can push yourself to do, take the time to appreciate what you've already pushed for and achieved. Pushing for a slightly heavier weight is a fairly small accomplishment when you consider all the effort and work it took you to get to that point in the first place.

I'm not saying you don't have to push yourself anymore, I'm just saying, realize how much you've already pushed and what you've achieved through it. You've earned a bit of rest once in awhile, you're not out of shape, you're far from it. This constant drive to always get more muscle and less fat is approaching the point of extreme. You're body is already hurting from being overstressed, listen to what it's telling you.

There are plenty of young athletes with excellent diets and lifestyles who have never had any pains or major problems in their life who have suddenly died from a heart attack or stroke. Exercise is hard and damaging on the body. It's the repairing of this damage which allows the body to grow stronger. If you aren't giving yourself time to fully repair 100% every tissue in your body, that remaining damage will gradually accumulate. Given the time you've been dieting, and the amount of exercise you've been doing, and the symptoms you're experience, I think you may need to take an extended recovery, just to make sure everything is in absolute top shape before you start pushing it further again.

You aren't feeling this way for no reason. There is a condition in your body sending signals to your brain. These signals are being sent because something is not functioning properly in your system. It could be as simple as not having enough glucose to access which is causing your cells to relay the messenger molecules. The release of these molecules are triggered by chemistry through your biological system, they do not falsely release in healthy people, acknowledge these signals because they ARE telling you that something is wrong. Once the condition causing your cells to send these signals is resolved, the signals will stop, and you'll stop having symptoms.

Go to your doctor, discuss your situation. Discuss your drives, your addictive personality towards exercise. Discuss your goals and motivations. Discuss your symptoms. Only your doctor can properly tell you what these signals are indicating, the severity of the problem, and what course of action you should take. Just whatever you do, make sure you have thoroughly discussed every aspect of this matter. If your doctor feels you may be going into abusively extreme territory, they will tell you. If after further discussion your doctor feels you may have adapted to an unhealthy mindset, they will be able to instruct you on how to deal with it, or how to get help for it.

There's no embarrassment in having an unhealthy mindset. It doesn't mean anything is wrong with you. It doesn't mean that you, or your mentality are sick. All it means is that you've taken a state of mentality which doesn't serve the best interests of your health or life.

If you want my 2 cents on the matter, I think some of this may be stemming from an unhealthy perception of your self-image or worth.
You say

I want to be able to ask 20 woman in a row if I need to lose any more weight and I want each one to essentially say "hell no, you look great as you are"

So I'd have to ask, why is one of your goals to satisfy other people's standards? There will always be women who will think you could lose a little more weight. Many of these women wont even know your body well enough to determine what's fat and what's muscle. You'll never be perfect. It just goes back to what I said before. Take satisfaction in the progress you've made, not the progress you can still make. What you gain now is pure icing on the cake, and a cake with icing is always a nice thing to have, so you should still push for that. But trust me, if you can enjoy your body by your own standards, and reach a point where you feel that nothing NEEDS to be improved, you'll carry yourself better, and people will respond better to that than the extra inch of muscle definition. Find a way to change that quote to

I want to be able to ask 20 woman in a row if I need to lose any more weight, and learn their rational intelligence as a result

Strive to be your best, just remember to take some time to reap and enjoy the rewards. I'm sure if you took all these hours you spend working out each day and spent them as good quality relax time with the wife/girlfriend/family now and again, you wouldn't regret it.

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

Ophix,

Let me start by thanking you for taking the time & interest in replying to my post.....your words are full of both wisdom & insight and I read what you wrote quite carefully.

I am slightly concerned that your determination and ambitions are border-lining the area of an obsessive disorder.

I and others share this same concern. If something were to happen to me, there are several people who would say "I told him to back-off a notch and that he was too excessive". That's the primary reason I wanted to survey an opinion from people who are more similar to me in their pursuit of fitness.

Since posting this, I've somewhat backed-off on my routine. I'm giving myself more rest and really trying to listen to my body. I say "somewhat" because my routines are still long and/or intense, BUT I'm eating more, resting more, stretching more, relaxing in the jacuzzi, arranging for massages and basically backing-up my routine with solid recovery & relaxation!

Rather than achieving that satisfaction from seeing what you can push yourself to do, take the time to appreciate what you've already pushed for and achieved. Pushing for a slightly heavier weight is a fairly small accomplishment when you consider all the effort and work it took you to get to that point in the first place.

Very good point. At the same time, now that I'm really seeing results, I'm even more so inspired and compelled to push harder and make this happen......but yes: I do need to pace myself and reflect on what I've done more so then what I have before more.

There are plenty of young athletes with excellent diets and lifestyles who have never had any pains or major problems in their life who have suddenly died from a heart attack or stroke. Exercise is hard and damaging on the body. It's the repairing of this damage which allows the body to grow stronger. If you aren't giving yourself time to fully repair 100% every tissue in your body, that remaining damage will gradually accumulate.

BINGO....and herein is my concern. At what point is my routine becoming detrimental or adverse to my health. Where do we stop telling ourselves to push past the pain? It's so posh to talk about ignoring the pain, pushing ourselves outside the comfort zone and rippin' it up???

Go to your doctor, discuss your situation. Discuss your drives, your addictive personality towards exercise. Discuss your goals and motivations. Discuss your symptoms. Only your doctor can properly tell you what these signals are indicating, the severity of the problem, and what course of action you should take.

Interesting you should say that. I have a few doctor friends and the ones that are into fitness say I'm doing great...while the more "executive" ones envy my time & dedication and, almost out of jealousy, cast a cloud of concern and suggest it might be excessive. Opinions seem rooted in people's own perception.

Btw....I'm far from starving myself. I'm averaging about 1 pound per week at this point, it's just that I have to fight like hell to make that progress...and from what I've learned, it's this intensity of exercise and degree of calorie deficit that gets this result: anything less will render little or no change....it would seem my body & genetics have forced me into this routine/approach.

If you want my 2 cents on the matter, I think some of this may be stemming from an unhealthy perception of your self-image or worth. So I'd have to ask, why is one of your goals to satisfy other people's standards?

Very intuitive......

Nobody likes being told their insecure or have low self-esteem...but looking past that; how can anyone live a quarter of a century being fat and not have issues? I hated the pics of myself, I hated the way I couldn't get dates with many woman....I hated walking around with an open badge of dishonor feeling like a sloth. So yes, I'm experiencing some post traumatic obese disorder...and my dieting, fitness and results scream into the face of that former state of being. When I'm peddling away on my bike, I'm often screaming at the fat to get the f**** off my body. This is a fight, a battle and certainly a war waged against my hate of what I used to be. I love myself for what I've done and become today, but I hate and am afflicted mentally by my former self. I'm sure many here can relate. And while my body has evolved into a different state, my mind is still lagging (sadly) behind.

Why my "Ask 20 woman their opinion"?.....it's honestly not so much my concern for others opinion, it's really more not trusting my own opinion. Frankly, I'm too pessimistic: I keep looking at what little is left and seeing the fat. Trust me, I want an outside opinion because mine is too warped and I don't trust my own self-perspective. I know I can go OCD on this thing, and believe me....I've got a brother, cousin and a few friends who have been charged with having powers of intervention if/when they think I'm going too far.

I guess, for me....I listen to both my body, my friends AND my forum!

Take satisfaction in the progress you've made, not the progress you can still make. What you gain now is pure icing on the cake, and a cake with icing is always a nice thing to have, so you should still push for that. But trust me, if you can enjoy your body by your own standards, and reach a point where you feel that nothing NEEDS to be improved, you'll carry yourself better, and people will respond better to that than the extra inch of muscle definition.
Strive to be your best, just remember to take some time to reap and enjoy the rewards. I'm sure if you took all these hours you spend working out each day and spent them as good quality relax time with the wife/girlfriend/family now and again, you wouldn't regret it.

SOLID....

 

[ophix]

how can anyone live a quarter of a century being fat and not have issues?

To be honest I figured that was it. Same deal here, having spent roughly 90% of my life being obese and still not nearly where I'd like to be.

Yeah, it's easy to get into the idea of getting so physically fit that NOBODY will ever question you again about it, but the truth is that that's just not going to be possible.

Other people don't have any better of an opinion about your fitness than you do. If you don't trust your own opinion to tell you that you're in good shape, trust your physical abilities. If you can outrun another athlete, that's proof. If you can out-lift another lifter, that's proof. If you can pass your own personal best, that's proof. The ONLY proof of your fitness is in what you can physically do, how you look is irrelevant. No criticism can argue against a stop watch, no mirror is as honest as a dumbbell. Besides, your body likes having fat. It's not just some useless thing that hangs off you, it actually serves a lot of practical purposes for survival. If you ever got stabbed or punched real hard in the gut, you'd be glad to have it.

Look at martial arts competitors. Some of them are obviously on the chubby side, and it doesn't slow them down at all. In fact if you go to a martial arts class, you may notice that a lot of the people there, teachers included, don't look like intimidating opponents at all. My teacher even competed on a provincial level sporting a pair of manboobs!

Btw....I'm far from starving myself. I'm averaging about 1 pound per week at this point, it's just that I have to fight like hell to make that progress...and from what I've learned, it's this intensity of exercise and degree of calorie deficit that gets this result: anything less will render little or no change....

But how long have you been dropping 1 pound per week for? The body is not designed to lose weight, it's designed to cling to weight. When you cut weight, you're fighting your body's attempts to hold onto your weight. This is why it can be so bad to lose weight if you don't do it properly. I don't doubt that you've done this properly, my concern would be more how long you've done it with no breaks. A calorie deficit is a calorie deficit, and over enough time logic would dictate that any deficit will accumulate unless it's being made up for. How long this might take, I wouldn't know, but that's what my concern is. Remember, diets aren't something you're meant to live on, they're just meant to get you to your weight.

You say that this is the amount of exercise you need to show any results? Maybe your muscles aren't growing easily because your body's busy repairing your joints? Maybe all that dieting has stacked up a bit and your body is falling a little behind and is using the protein to repair the joints, etc instead of using it to accumulate additional muscle mass.

I wouldn't know, I'm not a doctor. If you've completely outlined everything you're doing, and how long you've done it for to a doctor and they don't seem concerned, hey, I'd take that as a thumbs up, as long as they've considered some of your complaints and explained them to you. Even cross check your nutritionist's concerns with your doctors.

 

[g8r80]

Steve, there is nothing wrong with feeling attractive to the opposite sex. If that were not the case, women wouldn't wear makeup. I think many if not most folks work out for how it makes them feel and how they are perceived by others. That is certainly true of me.

 

[ophix]

Nothing wrong with feeling attractive, but being attractive might not be a good motivator in the best interests of your health.

True, women wear makeup to look attractive, nothing wrong with that. But on the other hand, the makeup they wear will inevitably destroy their face, their skin, and will make them age worse than they would if they hadn't worn the makeup. Furthermore certain brands of makeup and cosmetics may be leeching toxic substances into their bloodstream. Now there's definitely something wrong with that if it's just to look attractive.

Nature definitely gave us physical attraction to help motivate us to present ourselves better, but that doesn't mean that everything that makes you more attractive is good for you. The appearance is the side effect. The goal is the health and physical ability. When people do things just to enhance their appearance, they almost always end up hurting their health.

Cosmetics, surgery, crash diets, excessive exercise. Our vanity can mislead us to take a lot of stupid risks and make a lot of clouded decisions. This is why I reject fashion as a motivation to work out.

All these 12-13 year old girls running around in makeup from such an early age... They're going to look like pitbulls made of cheese cloth because of it. Makeup can absolutely ruin your natural appearance to such an extent that I know many women who wear makeup just around the house now because of the extent it's damaged their real face.

So yeah, IMO, doing anything just for your appearance is a bad idea, because odds are, you're making a bad decision.

Your appearance is a direct reflection of your health. Evolution teaches us that it's the healthiest specimen that attracts the mate, and the features that attract the mate are a result of that specimen's health. If you are healthy, the appearance will come with it. If you try to isolate and perfect aspects of your health just to come off as more attractive, it'll never work like you want. Someone will always think that something could be smaller, or bigger, and you're just setting yourself up to ignore what your body's saying and listen to what your brain wants in order to achieve that perfection.

Take pride in your appearance, just don't blast your workout just because you need to achieve that appearance... That's what future Milhouse did... You don't want to be like Milhouse, do you?

All I'm saying is that you'll be doing yourself a huge favour by learning not to think about your looks. Life's a lot easier if you just learn not to think about it. You can still push your workout, you just wont have the aspect of vanity and irrational desire clouding your judgment.

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

Take pride in your appearance, just don't blast your workout just because you need to achieve that appearance... That's what future Milhouse did... You don't want to be like Milhouse, do you?

Whoa......now THAT really hits home! That whole Milhouse perspective really makes the point. But since my aspirations span far beyond wanting to score with a yellow-haired same-dress-wearing Lisa, I'm not going to let it get me down!

Definitely some good discussion here and this spans well beyond my own personal routine & issues....

I think it's funny how people so often want to narrow things down to just ONE reason. Are you doing it to be healthy? Are you doing it to look better? Are you doing if for _____ ? Hey, it could be several things!

When I think about it...I'm doing it clearly for a MULTIPLE of things...and I think this is something we all have to ask ourselves....but a lot of these questions are very loaded.

Let's look at a triathlete, now here's a person who will say they enjoy the sport, the health aspects, the fun, etc.....but in the end they're going to compete against others for ranking. If they win, they feel great, BUT WHY? Because they were better in performance then others???? Well, from that we can extrapulate the psychological notion that in order to feel good about ones self you have to be better and/or outperform another person. But aren't we taught that self-worth and validation has to come from within and not to seek it otherwise? The wise man says "sometimes your behind, sometimes your ahead, but in the end you're only racing yourself"....and the idea that "your candle doesn't burn brighter by blowing out someone elses".

For me, I'm going to put "health" at the top of my list. My triglycerides were off the chart, my cholesterol was bad and I'm quite confident I was heading in a rather bad direction. They wanted to put me on medication and I just knew this was, literally, "do or die" time.

Everything beyond health is just side-benefits....BUT I will say that I'm thoroughly into it. All my life I've anticipated losing weight and getting fit, but it just never seemed to be happening beyond an occassional run at some exercise and dieting. Not a crash diet, just a few months of reasonably cutting calories that would result in some 20-30 pounds...from there it would take 2-4 years to gradually come back. I had the realization that I didn't really have any pictures or recollection of having been really fit at one point in my life....that along with my turning 40 made me realize it was time to finally do it OR come to terms with probably never having done it. Is this associated with classic mid-life crisis? I dunno....but probably.

I'll be honest...at this point many people say I look great, fit and don't need to lose any more weight. I disagree. This is the fun part, the fine-tuning....my body is getting more cut, toned and muscular...instead of just looking 'good'...I want to ride this into excellence and see where it goes. And I'll admit, I'm enjoying the new found regard from people!

I'm sure you've seen, while churning miles on the elliptical, that episode where Tyra Banks dresses like a fatty and walks around: she's stunned at how differently people treat her! Let me tell ya, I'm experiecning a whole different world now that I'm more fit and athletic. Don't get me wrong, I'd never cheat on my wife nor am I a 'player'....but the looks you get and mostly the respect you get is nice. It's funny how, when I'm around people, they bring-up fitness, exercise and nutrition...and I remember how intimidated and respectful I was when I was around other people who are all fit and into the gym...now I'm one of those people and I'm getting that respect. Having a fit body is not something that comes without a price!

The question is....is it that I'm looking better and getting this attention...OR is it that I'm feeling so good about myself & confident that I'm projecting this into what I'm observing? I dunno, it's complex, probably both and it ultimately doesn't matter....but what does matter is that I'm feeling better, feeling good about myself and feeling like I've made a change for the better.

Back to "looks".....it's definitely a component of my motivation. I've long-since blown past having good bloodwork, respiratory, circulatory and basic health benefits, at this point it's all about finishing and seeing this through to the end...but I'm doing it for me and I'm enjoying it. This will facilitate my feeling good about myself (along with other things)...but when you feel good about yourself, nobody can take that away from you. Everyone deserves to feel attractive....yeah, it's shallow, superficial, skin-deep and what-not....but it's something I've never felt and I dig it. If it serves as motivation, nothing wrong with that...not a thing.

 

[tsilcyc]

Ophix,

You and BikeSwimLaugh are a match made in heaven due to the sheer volume words you both write.

I stopped reading this thread because not only am I obsessive-compulsive, I'm also ADD. Before I get to the end of your first paragraph, something shiny has caught my attention and I flutter away.

For some reason I came back here and found this: "For the other guy, TSI, who seems to be in a similar situation..."

My response to that is...

http://i35.tinypic.com/rwooyx.jpg

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

Ophix,

You and BikeSwimLaugh are a match made in heaven due to the sheer volume words you both write.

LOL...yeah, we could do a text-threesome with Chillen and bring down the whole website.