HIIT vs jogging whats better for burning fat?

[Wrangell]

in addition i was told "you want to keep the carbohydrate intake pretty low to keep insulin levels low and stable. controlling insulin is the key to reducing the body fat and increasing muscle mass" but i have not yet looked into that though people on other message boards had agreed with it.

I think insulin / Glycemic Index issues are really more relevant - and I mean in a significant way - for specific issues of...... a) post workout nutrition and......... b) for diabetics. So within that context, I'd think the need to avoid high GI foods due to concerns about an insulin response is pretty much a non-issue for most gym rats relatively speaking.

High GI carbs might bump insulin more and higher insulin might enhance fat storage ( as you alluded to ), but that's usually in the context of when glucose is in excess. So, from an ' excess ' point of view, the issue is the high number of ( excess ) calories, not so much the high GI scores of carbs themselves IMO. After all, a baked potato has a high GI score of 85 or so and white rice has a high GI score in the 70's...and i don't think anyone would advocate staying away from these sorts of foods and other high GI foods like carrots, cereals, bananas, bagels, raisins, breads etc. as part of healthy diet simply based on a GI score and a corresponding insulin response.

Anything in terms of a carbs / food is fine...... in moderation. And it's also fine in the context of GI so long as you combine high GI foods with good sources of protein, fat, or other low GI carbs.

The goal is to focus more on the net overall GI rating of a meal itself than one particular food item IMO.

 

[theGOOCH]

The studies say HIIT is better at burning fat. I prefer "cardio" for 2 reasons: My primary reason for starting was for heart health and endurance, and I must be weird because I actually like it.

 

[Wrangell]

The studies say HIIT is better at burning fat. I prefer "cardio" for 2 reasons: My primary reason for starting was for heart health and endurance, and I must be weird because I actually like it.

Same with me.

I do HIIT primarily for the fitness benefits - i.e so I can still keep up with kids 25 years my junior when playing hockey !

Fat loss from HIIT is just an added bonus.

 

[trainerty]

Not a bad discussion here....good input so far. Keep it going.

 

[momof3]

I like the comment that fat loss from hiit is just added bonus..
HIIT rocks and i think that used along with endurance cardio it actual produces an overall athlete, endurance plus reserves. HIIT is also very effective at increasing your overall endurance speeds by getting yoru body used to the Maxs.

When training for 10ks and things I incorporate HIIT on opposite days of my endurance training and include incline runs...they really pay off during the endurance runs outdoors as i can run faster, but also it is a great heart rate increaser too. running 5% incline at 7mph has the same benefit for me as running 9mph at 1%. when i alternate those in my hiit its even an awesomer endorphine rush/vomit inducer

 

[Wrangell]

I like the comment that fat loss from hiit is just added bonus..
HIIT rocks and i think that used along with endurance cardio it actual produces an overall athlete, endurance plus reserves. HIIT is also very effective at increasing your overall endurance speeds by getting yoru body used to the Maxs.

When training for 10ks and things I incorporate HIIT on opposite days of my endurance training and include incline runs...they really pay off during the endurance runs outdoors as i can run faster, but also it is a great heart rate increaser too. running 5% incline at 7mph has the same benefit for me as running 9mph at 1%. when i alternate those in my hiit its even an awesomer endorphine rush/vomit inducer

" running 5% incline at 7mph " - ouch !

That's not easy........how long ( many minutes ) can you keep that pace up anyway ????

( P.S.: My sincerest condolences on the Cornhuskers..........talk about a ' team induced ' rush/vomit inducer ! )

 

[momof3]

" running 5% incline at 7mph " - ouch !

That's not easy........how long ( many minutes ) can you keep that pace up anyway ????

( P.S.: My sincerest condolences on the Cornhuskers..........talk about a ' team induced ' rush/vomit inducer ! )

lol yeah im not longer a husker fan hee hee

um about 60 seconds lol or as long as i have to ...thats my sprint ha ha i haent tested to see how long i can do it...im usually praying by th 60 second mark!! i do a 3/1 split on my HIIT 3min normal 1min HI

 

[momof3]

" running 5% incline at 7mph " - ouch !

That's not easy........how long ( many minutes ) can you keep that pace up anyway ????

( P.S.: My sincerest condolences on the Cornhuskers..........talk about a ' team induced ' rush/vomit inducer ! )

wanted to add its all in the legs...the glutes actually...i do running with my husband around te leg and the last part before the bank is a nice uphill incline....because of the HIIT this way..im able to POWER up the hill and when most slow down, i speed up...its a great mind blower.
bt my hams and glutes show it too.

 

[Wrangell]

lol yeah im not longer a husker fan hee hee

um about 60 seconds lol or as long as i have to ...thats my sprint ha ha i haent tested to see how long i can do it...im usually praying by th 60 second mark!! i do a 3/1 split on my HIIT 3min normal 1min HI

That's a no nonsense workout...well done !

FYI....on the issue of inclines, some hockey players I coached would train with what they called treadmill " 10 / 10" 's.....

- warm up for 7 - 10 minutes
- straddle the treadmill deck and set the speed at 10 mph & an incline at 10 ( or max )
- hop on the moving treadmill deck and try and run for 10 mph at an incline of 10 for 1 minute ( or as long as you can )
- hop off and then walk around the treadmill till your heartrate got down to about 60%-70% MHR.
- then, hop back on and do the 10 / 10 again.
- do this on/off set 4 - 6 times
- cool down for 5-7 minutes​

....not a HIIT routine for the faint of heart

 

[momof3]

That's a no nonsense workout...well done !

FYI....on the issue of inclines, some hockey players I coached would train with what they called treadmill " 10 / 10" 's.....

- warm up for 7 - 10 minutes
- straddle the treadmill deck and set the speed at 10 mph & an incline at 10 ( or max )
- hop on the moving treadmill deck and try and run for 10 mph at an incline of 10 for 1 minute ( or as long as you can )
- hop off and then walk around the treadmill till your heartrate got down to about 60%-70% MHR.
- then, hop back on and do the 10 / 10 again.
- do this on/off set 4 - 6 times
- cool down for 5-7 minutes​

....not a HIIT routine for the faint of heart

lol holy crap that sounds awesome scary but awesome! im tempted to give it a try...dont laugh at me though when i fall off the back of the treadmill...bt im curious lol gonna hafta pysch myself up as i have serious douts to my ability to do a 10 10 but mostly i dont wanna be lauged at lol

 

[ryan04]

haha nice I like the detail of all the awnsers.

Edit: I know y'all like HIIT for a lot of reasons but I really don't give a damn about my health lol I'm sorry but im 20 and I like girls xD and thas the only reason I workout. xD

 

[MB1]

Now, can I advise that you check the fact that HIIT has a considerable EPOC effect. I think you may find that it is negligible (in the order of tens of calories), so, dont get too excited about that. Weights will give you better EPOC.

As for the sub-topic on carbohydrate consumption for fat loss, are we talking about simple, starchy, or fibrous carbs?

Personally, I have much more success loosing fat when I restrict starchy carbs somewhat. While a caloric deficit is still necessary to loose fat, restricting starchy and simple carbs can assist to keep insulin levels under control.

 

[matt182]

HIIT doesnt have a better fat utilisation charteristic! are you insane bro

It basically only uses carbs, so your whole reasoning is pretty flawed

 

[MB1]

What I mean by utilisation characteristic is how well you are able to burn fat while retaining muscle over the course of your entire cutting plan.

 

[Wrangell]

Since HIIT is a shorter workout you are effectively reducing the chances of your body catabolising muscle to fuel your cardio. This is the underlying principal of the afore mentioned study, and is the main advantage of HIIT.

Since loosing fat while retaining the maximum amount of muscle possible is the goal when cutting after a bulk, HIIT can be used very effectively in a post bulk cutting plan.

Frankly, all other things being equal, most gym rats could do 45 - 60 minutes of steady state cardio and not be at any more significant risk of losing muscle than doing 20 - 30 minutes of HIIT IMO.

The main issue with HIIT isn't so much an issue of it's alleged muscle saving advantages versus steady state ( i.e non- endurance ) cardio IMO, but rather, it's optimal impact of HIIT on fat loss given a particular level of calorie expenditure.

Now, can I advise that you check the fact that HIIT has a considerable EPOC effect. I think you may find that it is negligible (in the order of tens of calories), so, dont get too excited about that. Weights will give you better EPOC, this is why lifting heavy on a cutting plan can be effective for some.

Why is that ?

The main advantage is that HIIT has a better fat utilisation characteristic. You will burn way more calories, generally, with SS cardio.

You might burn more calories during exercise with steady state cardio, but it may not translate to having the same impact when it comes to fat loss.

In fact, that was the crux of the classic Trembley HIIT study.

In their study, their ' steady state cardio ' group burned 2X as many calories ( while actually exercising ) as their ' HIIT group '. So, you'd expect the steady state cardio group had more fat loss cause they burned twice the calories during exercise.

But, once they accounted for those differences in the amount burned during exercise, they found that for every calorie burned while exercising, the HIIT group ended up with more fat loss per calorie expended than the steady state cardio group. In fact, the HIIT group had a fat loss 9 X greater than the steady state cardio group.

 

[flyinfree]

OK,,, so i have been gaining more "experience" with this, and more questions come to me.

1st- let's remember I am training for a multiple discipline, speed and strength- 12-15 hour event. YES, 12-15 hours of sustained effort- IRONMAN! nothing else like it.

SO- I ran one night this week over 5.7 miles, then had a strethc period, and then ran another 5.7 miles. I used my basic 9-10 minute pace for warm up and recovery,, and I would sprint, long gliding strides, almost fall down for anywhere from 30-60 seconds, and I would be gassed out huge!

keeping my 9-10 minute pace, I would deal with recovery,,, and sometimes almost stagger. What I noticed was at the end of my second period of running, back home from the gym, I felt very strong and like I may be able to really take off and go into a nice stride.

questions-
what was that feeling- an early induced runners high (endorphin/adrenaline)?

was that feeling an illusion, or would it actually carry me thru, for say 2 more hours of running?

lastly- is this shorter- (in my case 2 hours) verses my longer (4-6 hour) workout BETTER for me in training for IRONMAN.

p.s. please remember- I can't care about burning muscle and such, I am going to no matter what. I don't care if I drop dead from heart failure- it would be a relief. I don't care what is BEST for long living.. i care what will best prepare me for IRONMAN! Willing to suffer!

 

[matt182]

i wouldnt say your burning much muscle protein anyway.

Im pretty sure its endorphins and maybe related hormones, but it aint adrenaline.

Not sure what ytou mean by the second q, but maybe because your body was meeting the requirements of your demand?

And id prefer the two hours. Over hear in aus the ironman is the best! ha ask nbs. Is your thing just running then yeah id say 2hours imo but if you did swimming and biking too you could make it a bit longer

 

[flyinfree]

wouldn't the training technique apply regardless off the discipline? Meaning, whether i am a distance runne, swimmer, or biker, HIIT is good or it is not. The event I do is major DISTANCE for all 3 disciplines-- heheh we swim about 2 hours so we can bike around 7 hours, so that we can get off the bik and run a marathon--- AINT THAT COOL!!! hahahah

matt- what i mean by second question-

in endurance training we deplete our bodies completely at times. As I approach that point, somewhere around 180 minutes or so I get what feels like a second runners high, breaking thru a second wall. BUT it is just a feeling of the body making it's last ditch effort before it "bonks" (quits).

Hence the need fo us to have nutrition plans fo these longer races.

I was wondering if my HIIT effort in those 2 runs had depleted my body faster, and thus i would bonk sooner.

OR
did the HIIT effort just release those hormones as you say because my brain was trying to deal with the increased strain.

Since you have an idea about ironman-- IS HIIT TRAINING A GOOD REPLACEMENT physically for endurance training?

Mentally, we have to have the "long days" or we will never make it. I am traingin for the 140.6 distance.

 

[matt182]

wouldn't the training technique apply regardless off the discipline? Meaning, whether i am a distance runne, swimmer, or biker, HIIT is good or it is not. The event I do is major DISTANCE for all 3 disciplines-- heheh we swim about 2 hours so we can bike around 7 hours, so that we can get off the bik and run a marathon--- AINT THAT COOL!!! hahahah

Yeah its good then that your doing it for all 3 displines, because specificity is key. You dont predominately do HIIT do you? because i dont think thats your best option

matt- what i mean by second question-

in endurance training we deplete our bodies completely at times. As I approach that point, somewhere around 180 minutes or so I get what feels like a second runners high, breaking thru a second wall. BUT it is just a feeling of the body making it's last ditch effort before it "bonks" (quits).

Hence the need fo us to have nutrition plans fo these longer races.
Do you eat the right foods too? seeing as glycogen is the main factor which causes hitting the "wall", eating lots of carbs before an event (whilst training to of course) is essential, serious athletes can eat and store up to 1kg, while your doing a long run have like 50g of a high GI food, and after an even something immedietly high mod GI then lots of Low GI to replace all you lost

I was wondering if my HIIT effort in those 2 runs had depleted my body faster, and thus i would bonk sooner. Doing HIIT would mean bonking out quicker im sure you know that, thats because it uses glycogen instead of mostly fat, and thats a major factor of bonking out - no glycogen no chance.

OR
did the HIIT effort just release those hormones as you say because my brain was trying to deal with the increased strain.

Since you have an idea about ironman-- IS HIIT TRAINING A GOOD REPLACEMENT physically for endurance training? I like watching them on tv (the surf ironman though) im no expert but i dont think anything can replace a good endurance training

Mentally, we have to have the "long days" or we will never make it. I am traingin for the 140.6 distance.

The pros start at 5am!

 

[flyinfree]

yes, i am nutritionally focused ALL OF THE TIME!!! I hate it! hehehe but it's worth it.

I thought your opinion was the opposite. Darn it-- I was hoping to cut some the hours... no luck! and that's good-- that's why Ironman is few and far between.

thanks for the interaction Matt.