Weekly Bulk/Cut cycling...anyone have experience with this?
- Thread starter BigMOFO
- Start date
Darth Pooh
New member
I am interested in why you think 1 week on / off is good. Have you read anything regarding it?
To me, it seems counter productive and not really possible, however, I don't know too much on the situation. Bulks and Cuts tend to be in blocks of time lasting generally at min a month (from what I have read). Hypertrophic gains (to build muscle) requires surplus calories, I am not so sure going from surplus to deficit is advantageous.
For the first cycle, I've read people doing 12 weeks of BULK, then they try to maintain that for a few weeks (maintenance), then go into a cut.
To me, it seems counter productive and not really possible, however, I don't know too much on the situation. Bulks and Cuts tend to be in blocks of time lasting generally at min a month (from what I have read). Hypertrophic gains (to build muscle) requires surplus calories, I am not so sure going from surplus to deficit is advantageous.
For the first cycle, I've read people doing 12 weeks of BULK, then they try to maintain that for a few weeks (maintenance), then go into a cut.
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Darth Pooh
New member
Interesting read in another forum. Other's input on the situation... the last post seems to make a lot of sense to me. Dunno.
BigMOFO
New member
Thanks Darth
I remember it being mentioned here on this forum, just mentioned, not discussed.
The reason why I want to do this is realy because I want to see how it is to gain some muscle. Its more of a curiosity thing. I also wanna gain more strength, but it seems like I've hit a ceiling with that now. My main goal still is to lose more fat, so my logic told me, hey, if you could do it in short cycles, why not?
I remember it being mentioned here on this forum, just mentioned, not discussed.
The reason why I want to do this is realy because I want to see how it is to gain some muscle. Its more of a curiosity thing. I also wanna gain more strength, but it seems like I've hit a ceiling with that now. My main goal still is to lose more fat, so my logic told me, hey, if you could do it in short cycles, why not?
Darth Pooh
New member
No problem... I think nothing short of using something like Steroids is this really possible. I thought I hit a strength ceiling too when I was in a caloric deficit, until... I added more weight. And sure enough, I realized, I wasn't. Like I thought I couldn't get out more than 40 lbs. on Arnold presses, but I said, Fuck it... let's try 45's, then 50's... and guess what, I can, could and did.
The bulk situation is one of those things you just have to commit too. I am doing it (obviously during a weird time of year, who get's fatter during the summer on purpose?!) and I am very happy with what is going on (not the results, because I can't see shit yet).
Steve and I have discussed this a lot in my Diary thread and another bulking thread that I started about a month back (beginner's bulk suggestions I believe it is called).
Let me know how you decide, I'd love to be able to talk this out with someone.
BigMOFO
New member
Thank you both Darth and Steve. Your right, I should just focus on one goal. "If you chase two rabbit, you won't catch either"
I'll try pushing myself more at the gym too, maybe I can squeeze more strength from my muscles. I gauge my strength by how much I can bench press, which I guess is not a "tell all" thing anyways. Come to think of it, I've been able to curl more lately.
I got to really think this through. For now, I'm going to stick to calorie restriction. Who knows, maybe in a month, ill commit to bulking
I'll try pushing myself more at the gym too, maybe I can squeeze more strength from my muscles. I gauge my strength by how much I can bench press, which I guess is not a "tell all" thing anyways. Come to think of it, I've been able to curl more lately.
I got to really think this through. For now, I'm going to stick to calorie restriction. Who knows, maybe in a month, ill commit to bulking
Darth Pooh
New member
I am going to go with you are a tall guy (just by your BMI and weight, it's fairly obvious). I don't trust BMI as a gauge or anything... I just know how it is calculated... I say if you are still losing the lbs from calorie restriction and you like how it is looking in the mirror, totally stick with it. If you think it's time to maybe slow it down... that's cool too. But only you should make the commitment and not let people run their mouths influence your decision.
BigMOFO
New member
I'm 5'11
and yes, Im losing pounds and inches, and besides the loose skin, I like what I see in the mirror. Why fuck with a good thing? Don't know....thanks for the wakeup call
recomps
BigMoFo,
Yes, why not just reach your original weight goal, and then do a recomp diet where you s-l-o-w-l-y remove more fat and put on more muscle. That is very possible without steriods or prohormones. It will also be possible to do a very lean bulk at that time, but I think recomp is better.
BigMoFo,
Yes, why not just reach your original weight goal, and then do a recomp diet where you s-l-o-w-l-y remove more fat and put on more muscle. That is very possible without steriods or prohormones. It will also be possible to do a very lean bulk at that time, but I think recomp is better.
How do you suppose one goes about this after having been lifting for a while?
Steve,
Great question! And, as usual, it depends on where one is at in the present.
If BigMOFO is not supplementing with BCAA's and glutamine yet (on top of any that happen to be in a whey sup he uses), then he could start there. They create a fairly large possibility of lean muscle gain. I'll assume he's using some type of creatine.
If someone is young and healthy, and really, really knows what he is doing with blood tests and the rest, understands PCT, and doesn't have to worry about getting outlawed from some important competition, then external hormones might be an option. It's not for me though.
Yet there are some interesting things. As most people know insulin is very anabolic under the right conditions, but due to the fact that fat cells as well as muscle cells have GLUT 4 receptors in them, insulin also does store fat. .....unless....unless....you could keep the food from going into fat storage and load up the muscle and liver cells.
Old technic: You could take an insulin mimic such as banaba leaf with a good amount of it's active, Corosolic acid, and take it before a meal to get strong insulin like effects. But, then also add something like hydrocitricacid (HCA), which eliminates a primary enzyme in the process of fat storage, so very little of the new fuel goes to fat storage
The New: There is now a couple of herbal solutions that possibly go far beyond the above paragraph. They apparently don't even use the insulin pathways, but to a much greater extent load up muscle cells with fuel, while keeping it away from fat storage. I purchased one of these in bulk to test it out several weeks ago. I don't go for brand names too much. I took an 80% dose the first trial and ate what I thought was a strong amount of carbs, and 40 minutes later went hypo. No, glucose spike, just hypo. I needed to immediately load a lot more carbs. I tried it again later at 50% dose an still went slightly hypo. I decided to wait until I could monitor closely a lean bulk or recomp diet, and put the stuff away for later. It's suppose to increase the effectiveness of the creatine and protien you take in also. Something like this would work well even on top of external hormones.
There are a couple of other things, but I'm getting too long-windy here.
Great question! And, as usual, it depends on where one is at in the present.
If BigMOFO is not supplementing with BCAA's and glutamine yet (on top of any that happen to be in a whey sup he uses), then he could start there. They create a fairly large possibility of lean muscle gain. I'll assume he's using some type of creatine.
If someone is young and healthy, and really, really knows what he is doing with blood tests and the rest, understands PCT, and doesn't have to worry about getting outlawed from some important competition, then external hormones might be an option. It's not for me though.
Yet there are some interesting things. As most people know insulin is very anabolic under the right conditions, but due to the fact that fat cells as well as muscle cells have GLUT 4 receptors in them, insulin also does store fat. .....unless....unless....you could keep the food from going into fat storage and load up the muscle and liver cells.
Old technic: You could take an insulin mimic such as banaba leaf with a good amount of it's active, Corosolic acid, and take it before a meal to get strong insulin like effects. But, then also add something like hydrocitricacid (HCA), which eliminates a primary enzyme in the process of fat storage, so very little of the new fuel goes to fat storage
The New: There is now a couple of herbal solutions that possibly go far beyond the above paragraph. They apparently don't even use the insulin pathways, but to a much greater extent load up muscle cells with fuel, while keeping it away from fat storage. I purchased one of these in bulk to test it out several weeks ago. I don't go for brand names too much. I took an 80% dose the first trial and ate what I thought was a strong amount of carbs, and 40 minutes later went hypo. No, glucose spike, just hypo. I needed to immediately load a lot more carbs. I tried it again later at 50% dose an still went slightly hypo. I decided to wait until I could monitor closely a lean bulk or recomp diet, and put the stuff away for later. It's suppose to increase the effectiveness of the creatine and protien you take in also. Something like this would work well even on top of external hormones.
There are a couple of other things, but I'm getting too long-windy here.
BCAAs and glutamine lead to hypertrophy in trained men in the face of a hypocaloric diet?
And why would you assume he's using creatine?
So instead bulking, you're suggesting one 'recomps' with hormone injections?
Right....
You're all about the supps, huh.
You ever try the standard bulk/cut cycle? Most people aren't going to go downing a bunch of supps when they really aren't necessary for recomping over time.
Steve,
I do NOT personally believe in any external hormones, but LOL, I figured it was possible that you might be a user, and I didn't want to hurt your feelings if that were true.
I use almost no supps now for weight loss, a few for health purposes, but I do think some work extremely well for things like recomp and lean gain, but don't care to promote or argue about them. And, I don't care if anyone on here knows about them or uses them.
Weight loss really is 95% diet, exercise, and I'll add nutrient timing (meaning meals at the right time with the right spacing.
I do NOT personally believe in any external hormones, but LOL, I figured it was possible that you might be a user, and I didn't want to hurt your feelings if that were true.
I use almost no supps now for weight loss, a few for health purposes, but I do think some work extremely well for things like recomp and lean gain, but don't care to promote or argue about them. And, I don't care if anyone on here knows about them or uses them.
Weight loss really is 95% diet, exercise, and I'll add nutrient timing (meaning meals at the right time with the right spacing.
OUCH...
that's gonna leave a mark
Fuck no, to put it bluntly.
I was more curious about what you meant by recomp.
You differentiated from cutting and bulking. In my world, they are one in the same. After the initial stages of a strength training program, once the body gets over the initial adaptation to it, simultaneous muscle gain and fat loss are next to impossible, naturally. The leaner you become, the more this is the case. Sure, if you're carrying a shit ton of extra fat concurrent recomp is a possibility as well.
Beyond those things (novice and overall body fatness) recomp exists by way of bulking cycles to add muscle and cutting cycles to shed fat accumulated from the previous bulk while maintaining as much muscle as possible.
There are some nifty diets out there that are pretty tricky to set up but work well for 'persuading' an optimal calorie partitioning, but even then recomp is nothing apreciable relative to your good old bulking and cutting.
And I'd be interested in seeing your research of glutamine. I've seen most of it, I'm sure. From my own personal experience, my own research, my empirical evidence from clients, and interaction with other coaches... supplementing additional BCAAs when protein intake is already adequate probably isn't going to make a difference.
A lot of people who like to throw out the glutamine recommendation resort to the Bowtell study. Do you have more than this as it relates to what we speak of here?
I'd be interested in seeing your data on nutrient timing as well please?
I haven't found this to be the case at all in my experience but I'm always interested in seeing what others have found to work or data I'm not aware of.
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Darth Pooh
New member
Really Steve? With all your rage I'd assume a shot here and there...
I'd also like to see his evidence for nutrient timing as well... although I am not a trainer, all evidence I've read has shown that making sure you get certain macros in before and after workouts is pretty much ideal, other than that... stick to a caloric and/or macro intake and things generally work themselves out.
I'd also like to see his evidence for nutrient timing as well... although I am not a trainer, all evidence I've read has shown that making sure you get certain macros in before and after workouts is pretty much ideal, other than that... stick to a caloric and/or macro intake and things generally work themselves out.
BigMOFO
New member
I ordered UD2 today. I always wanted to read one of Lyle's books. I'm probably not lean enough to do this yet, but I should still be able to learn a few things for later on down the road.
Thanks for info Steve
Steve,
I'll try to answer your questions later, as I've run into crunch time at work, where I will be expected to work long hours for about 3 weeks.
I did spend about 40 minutes reading some stuff as I'm mainly here to learn, and later to compare this and weigh it with previous exerience and knowledge for my own use. I certainly don't feel any obligation to share any of my knowledge, if I think my words will be distorted, and the reception is an unfairly hostile one. In other words, my main interest is my self improvement, I DON'T CARE ABOUT SHOWING MY UNDERSTANDING, THAT'S A FACT -- I'm just confident in my understanding for my own use. It will work for me, and when it don't, I'll find ways to alter it to further my understanding and go further in my pursuits, it's that simple.
There is an excellent chance I will pick up at least one if not two Lyle McDonald's books. They look very interesting. I appreciate the info.
I did expect to have a hard time getting below 13% BF, but perhaps with the right knowledge I can shoot for as low as 9%. I'm always open for new info and possibilities.
Tuberman
Steve,
I'll try to answer your questions later, as I've run into crunch time at work, where I will be expected to work long hours for about 3 weeks.
I did spend about 40 minutes reading some stuff as I'm mainly here to learn, and later to compare this and weigh it with previous exerience and knowledge for my own use. I certainly don't feel any obligation to share any of my knowledge, if I think my words will be distorted, and the reception is an unfairly hostile one. In other words, my main interest is my self improvement, I DON'T CARE ABOUT SHOWING MY UNDERSTANDING, THAT'S A FACT -- I'm just confident in my understanding for my own use. It will work for me, and when it don't, I'll find ways to alter it to further my understanding and go further in my pursuits, it's that simple.
There is an excellent chance I will pick up at least one if not two Lyle McDonald's books. They look very interesting. I appreciate the info.
I did expect to have a hard time getting below 13% BF, but perhaps with the right knowledge I can shoot for as low as 9%. I'm always open for new info and possibilities.
Tuberman