The Skinny on Japan (weight loss for modeling in Japan, etc)

[eye_meets_eye]

I'm a college student that recently moved to Japan in pursuit of a career in entertainment (despite not being of Japanese descent--I'm learning the language, though). Unfortunately I've always struggled with my weight, and I didn't understand until moving to Tokyo the tremendous pressure to be skinny in Japan.

Everyone here in Japan is fairly petite, and the men are usually more slim than the women. Genetics is surely a factor, as is the Japanese diet, which I've been engaged in for the last few months (rice, soba noodles, fish/sushi/sashimi, seaweed, green tea), as well as the amount of walking people do here. As a result, I've unsuspectingly lost about 30 pounds over the last five months of living here. I wasn't even really keeping track of my weight and suddenly the clothes were fitting more loosely, but I really can't see a change in my body type just yet. Even so, I expected to lose a bit more weight than I already have.

That said, I'm registered with a few freelance modeling agencies here in Tokyo, but I'm not getting very many jobs due to my measurements. I'm not necessarily looking to be a model, but there are very few work options for non-Japanese speakers in Japan--one of the few being modeling. Again, as I am in Japan, the restrictions on measurements seem to be pretty strict. For example, the "recommended" weight for a male my height (I'm 5"8, 172cm or so) is 125 lb/55kg, which may actually be considered underweight. I'm not really sure. Then again, it is the modeling industry, so I'm not surprised.

Vogue Hommes Japan // Vol 1, 2008

Male models are definitely shrinking in size. (Willowy, wasted, scrawny, however you want to say it.) Apart from super-skinny Japanese fashions, I really love styles by Dior Homme and former designer Hedi Slimane. It's a kind of heroin-chic rocker look that's really trendy now. In the States, I might have fit into what is considered an "M" size, but here I can't fit into -anything-. I have to shop "XL" and it completely throws me off, it's really wrecked my self-esteem. When I lived in the States, I used to think I was slowly slimming down (250 at my heaviest), from L to M size, but now I'm back at square one, weighing less than when I started but struggling to fit into a Japanese "XL"...!!

So I guess my question is: is there a way to get that skinny without totally starving?! I don't want to sound ill-informed (although I kind of am), but it's been hard for me to find exercises for men that aren't focused on building muscle. After all, most people want to achieve--or at least imitate--the athletic, mesomorphic body type. I'm an endomorph (I think), but rather than shape up into a mesomorph, I would rather imitate the proportions of an ectomorph.

Right now I'm 5"8 (172cm) and weigh about 200 lb (92kg). It's not really the weight that matters to the industry so much as the measurements. I can wear a 36" pant now (92cm?) and sometimes squeeze into a 34. But I want to slim down to a 29" waist and (73cm) maybe then some. My roommate--a guy, the same height as me--wears a women's 23" stretch jean (I think that's women's size 0 at Abercrombie) practically every day. It's irritating and frustrating and I'm not sure how that's even possible for someone like me.

I'm not really looking for a magic cure--just science. I browse MensHealth (and other sites) looking for weight loss tips and exercises for men, but for some reason the forums are inundated with a bunch of gym bunnies, along with advertisements depicting the same type of guy. All of the diets center around lots of protein for "getting buff" and a lot of the exercise involves heavy strength training. But that's not really the image I have of myself--athletic and tan and muscular, the guy in all the advertisements. Actually, I really just want to be pale and skinny and have defined cheekbones. From a genetic standpoint, I don't think I'm actually built to have the body type I want, and I guess my metabolism is pretty slow. Even so, I really want to slim down to a 29" waist without building much muscle, and without starving myself and living off cocaine and cigarettes like all the other models I know.

I'm the kind of person that won't start a routine, though, unless I know it's working. Like maybe if there were a bit of logic behind it or something. I would regret shoveling protein shakes down my throat thinking it will give me a slim figure. So, keeping in mind that I don't have a lot of exercise experience or a lot of knowledge about nutrition... I wonder if I would have to build muscle first to lose the extra weight, and then restrict my calories towards the end (months from now, maybe even a year) so that I lose the muscle mass? Or just cardio off all my weight and muscle over a period of several months? I really have no idea. But I need help doing this in a healthy way.

Having said all this, some examples are below. I've attached two articles, plus photos (including one of a young Mick Jagger.) I wonder how tall these guys are? They must be 6" at least, and I'm definitely not that... but anyway, yeah, I want to mimic this body type, I guess. Any suggestions? Moreover, any success stories!?

Thanks, all.

NY Times article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/07/fashion/shows/07DIARY.html

Telegraph UK article: Male models: where's the beef? - Telegraph

Example images:
http://bbs.55bbs.com/attachment.php?aid=1673672&noupdate=yes

http://hiphotos.baidu.com/malpertuis/pic/item/a37b14080833ac39e924880d.jpg

http://i.models.com/i/db/2009/2/4654/4654-500w.jpg

http://thefashionisto.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/25134_look_28_122_137lo.jpg

3EH.jpg (image)

4EH.jpg (image)

5EH.jpg (image)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_GSBWKqkC85Q/SErt5e1oRLI/AAAAAAAAAO0/wBG2Be7VS-M/s400/whitetank2.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3012/2562934789_686e13578f.jpg

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3532/0hmn007bq9.jpg

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/3900/007z5c9aue8.jpg

http://brieuc75.numeriblog.fr/soundtracktomylife/images/04667_eddie_pradafw06_362lo.jpg

http://images.wolfgangsvault.com/images/catalog/detail/WIN720608-FP.jpg

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Music/Pix/pictures/2007/02/16/horrors460.jpg

 

[Gen]

How old are you? Those models are very young. Not that you can't do it even if you are older, it'll just be more difficult, depending on your body type. You say you know that it may be impossible because of your body type. Just keep that in mind.

Eating lots of protein and drinking protein shakes will not make you gain muscle if you're losing weight. Eat less, most of it protein; do some cardio and you should lose weight. Those models aren't very athletic though so focus on the diet. Cardio three days a week still (health is important) but diet and nutrition mostly.

 

[eye_meets_eye]

Cool, thanks for that =]

I'm 19, by the way, Caucasian, and--I'd like to add--not necessarily looking for a career in modeling, per se, but music... although yes, modeling I guess goes along with that if one happens to get far enough... Aside from that, it's hard to be taken seriously as a musician/model/artist/whatever if you're not a size super-double zero. So, for the time being, these models are my "inspiration" or "goal" or "unattainable dream," etc.

 

[Alexiaechan]

XD hahahahahahaaha... <= NOT against him.. it's a LOL cuz I know how it is, lived there, felt same about japanese people ..

SIGH I know the feeling... X(

Dont think u can be as thin as a japanese guy while staying HEALTHY.

For various reasons, they have inherent genetic componants making them shorter and frailer, that's also partly due to diet.
Their diet has been for centuries nothing but fish and pickled veg, try building muscle with that.
They have a calcium poor diet, had no meat so again, thin bones, slight frame. Adapted body to such diet...
Now that meat/milk is intoduced, they ARE getting taller and fatter.

I lived in Japan a year, and am 5'2" tall female and used to weight a whoping 135 lbs at time. yep no pants for me! and I realised how fat I looked compared to them

Proteins shakes would be a no for me but i guess u can build muscle then loose it.. to become japanese like thin. it's NOT healthy, but i guess that's not your goal? ..

my 2 cents and people people, please dont starb being judgmental and all ... it's a discussion and advice forum.. sry if my comments seem harsh, wasnt meant to. You should know that typed txt can seem either softer or meaner depending.. =(

 

[Gen]

Protein shakes erm.. no no no..if he wants the japanese look, erm muscle is not the way to go =( unfortunately. People there vary from US size 4 (for teens who sport and old ladies) and 00 ...
protein would be the way to do for caucasian type tho..if u want healthy caucasian thinness.

my 2 cents

Protein shakes will not make him gain muscle if he's in a calorie deficit, they'll just give him more protein, which he needs.

What he wants to do won't be healthy, but that's not my business. He needs a large caloric deficit, just a little exercise and lots protein.

 

[amagheti]

i also would probably not advise on the protein shakes. i mean by looking at those male models he showed, they dont really have any muscles and are extra lean. you may need to loose some muscle to be that small and achieve the japanese image. although yes, protein shakes are beneficial if you want a muscular body (and even i drank them, loved them) i dont think this is applicable to his goals

 

[Gen]

OMG. If you ate 800 calories of just protein every day you would be super skinny NOT muscular. Why is this so difficult?

 

[eye_meets_eye]

First, I'd like to thank everyone for their advice--and to Alexiaechan, yeah, isn't Japan frustrating?? My thread pretty much got trashed at MensHealth, so anything at this point is helpful. That aside, I understand Japanese people have genetics behind them, and that's why I posted images of mainly Caucasian men (albeit a bit taller than me, I guess).

As for protein shakes, I will definitely look into it. I've read that protein takes the most energy to digest, causing a spike in metabolism. I calculated my BMR, about 2000 cals burned/day, which, along with the light activity I do might burn about 2500 cal/day. But I really don't feel like I intake that much... so maybe my metabolism slowed, or it may be that my calories are coming from the wrong sources, bad carbs or bad fats or whatnot (not all Japanese food is super healthy, after all).

(Sidenote: it's sad that we need math to EAT, in this day and age.)

In any case, I'm wanting to create a calorie deficit of about 2 lb a week (3500cals in 1 pound of fat x 2 = 7000cals), so like... at 2500 cals burned per day (apparently), that's 17500 calories burned per week. So I would just lower my intake to 10500 cals/week, or 1500 cals/day.

I'm wondering how to limit myself to so few calories a day without entering "starvation mode"?? I suppose that spreading the calories throughout the day (six meals a day), with the biggest in the morning and smallest at night, along with food rotation every few days and intake readjustment every two weeks or so will keep my metabolism doing some "guesswork."

The protein shakes (or things along those lines) may just be a good trick to keep me feeling full with the calorie restriction, and help energize me for a run or something, 3x a week, as Gen suggested. The "healthiness" factor may be lacking here, sure, but I do plan to eat a variety of fruits, vegetables, proteins (sushi or sashimi mostly), cut back on all the white rice (!!!) and eat more complex carbs and fiber. I figure at about 2lb/wk, that's 8lb/month, so about 8 months to my goal of 70lb fat loss (approx. 7 inches from waist 36" to 29", given that every 10lb is about 1" of fat loss on the waistline).

Basically, I want to create a steady caloric deficit (which includes calories from exercise) without slowing my metabolism. I'm just being fed a lot of different information--I read that a general rule of thumb for weight loss is to multiply your body weight by 10-12 to get the number of calories you should eat daily (for me, 10 x 200 lb = 2000 calories) and that any less than that is considered "undereating" and could lead to the dreaded (dun dun dun) "starvation mode." Eating 2000 calories a day starting today would definitely be eating more than I do normally, but maybe that's just what I need to kick-start my metabolism...?! Or should I go ahead and restrict to 1500 with the risk of lowering my basic metabolic rate?

so confuuuuuuuused

Best Wishes,
Too Fat for Tokyo

 

[stancel]

Trust me when I say, it is not impossible to go from overweight to very thin. That is what happened to me. I'm a guy, I went from obese to underweight. I did it with diet (low-fat) and exercise (cardio). Eventually my metabolism was so fast that I was 118 pounds and at that point I didn't care about my weight anymore I was just going about my life but still exercised and ate according to a healthy diet. I felt satisfied with the food that I ate, I wasn't starving. But people REALLY thought I was anorexic or bulimic and it annoyed me because I didn't starve myself at all.

Obviously, I'm back to being obese, because I stopped exercising and started eating junk. I don't really care about being skinny, I just want to look attractive again. What I do know is that there was a point when the weight came off by itself even when I was not trying to lose weight at all. that is because my metabolism became so fast from all the weight loss or exercise I guess (I'm not an expert on metabolism).

 

[eye_meets_eye]

That's actually really encouraging! (I don't really plan on going UNDERweight, but...) If you don't mind me asking, how tall are you and what was your starting weight? Did your low-fat diet consist of several meals throughout the day? What kind of cardio were you doing, and how often? Finally, how long did it take?

Thanks, and best of luck with your new fitness goals.